No an AH is impossible in D3... Remember that AH was hosted in each channel of the worlds in WoW in specific places. We dont have game channels we just have a game that only 4 players can be in so they would need to create an AH in the lobby and thats alot of extra stuff to add. The lobby would just be packed with spammers saying
S>SOJ 9 MIL@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
because itll probably cost money to put your items up for auction so people will prob just spam the lobby
I don't know how much you played wow...but if I dropped an item off at the AH in silvermoon, it showed up at the AH in orgrimmar. It's perfectly doable in diablo 3. It'd be an NPC in each town (or major city) that you talk to, click on an option to open up the global trade screen.
It'd work exactly the same way as it does in WoW. Sure, some people would spam trade, but that'd be true with or without an auction house. it would for sure be reduced dramatically with an auction house.
I don't know what you're smoking, but you're totally wrong about an AH not being able to work in Diablo.
A great money sink system in Diablo 3 would probably look very similiar to WoW. Repairs, respeccs, and transactional costs of doing trades via the AH.
A good economic system in a game that fights inflation has two parts:
1. Balanced rate of gold acquisition and gold loss. Don't make it too easy to turn huge profits. Sure, make it possible for the players who like to play around with the game economy, but don't make it a no brainer.
2. Integral systems in the game that require the use of gold and no other items.
These two things cause the following to happen:
1. Relatively hard to acquire wealth.
2. Acquired wealth has meaning and purpose.
Diablo 2 had integral systems in the game that required money. Lots of them. What it didn't have was a balanced rate of gold acquisition to loss. therefore, the integral systems didn't really seem integral and important, because no one ever had a problem getting the money to pay them.
hah right i hadn't thought tht you would be able to put it all through one npc and have it go through all the games. Nice well in that case i stand corrected and i think it is a good idea.
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I doubt they'd have reverse trading where people put up gold for items. It's not how economics works in the real world. You don't go to the grocery store and give the cashier 100 bucks and say, ok, when you get item xyz in stock, send it to me. You wait for items to be come available and go and buy them. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea per se, but part of the reason you pay when the items are available is so that you can comparison shop and watch trends. Sure, you can buy item xyz for 100 gold now and you're willing to pay that much, but what if you notice a trend of it dropping down in price during certain parts of the week?
Let's also keep in mind that if rare items with random stats rule the d3 economy like they keep saying they want to, even if it's only partially, then an interface where you put up gold and set it to auto buy an item with certain stats would be pretty complicated (because computers are stupid and you have to tell them exactly what you want them to look for and to do), would lend itself to a high rate of user error, and you would sometimes mess up the item query selection and end up buying an item that you didn't exactly want.
Let's say that you want to buy a rare sword that has a certain damage range with 4% life steal. now you put up the 200 gold that you want to spend on the item, except you accidentally put in mana steal instead of life steal and you're a barbarian. You're stuck with a sword that doesn't do anything for you and out 200 gold to actually buy what you do want.
It's just easier to program, build, and use an interface that allows the buyer to peruse a selection of items rather than create a wishlist for gold he wishes to spend.
I hope these long posts don't bore you guys. I really enjoy talking about game economics and systems. I'm going to school to become a game programmer/designer.
The downside is that it is impossible (as far as I know) to allow item trading. So if someone wants to trade 2 items directly, they would have to do a manual trade.
Yeah but thats where we have "trade channel" just like in WoW, there is an auction house but still many people do straight trades in trade channel. Sometimes when dealing with expensive high level items the AH fees are huge.. so dealing directly in trade channel you can save a lot of Gold.
So AH would bring easy way to trade items and stuff but you could still do the old school trading if you wanted.
Yeah but thats where we have "trade channel" just like in WoW, there is an auction house but still many people do straight trades in trade channel. Sometimes when dealing with expensive high level items the AH fees are huge.. so dealing directly in trade channel you can save a lot of Gold.
So AH would bring easy way to trade items and stuff but you could still do the old school trading if you wanted.
yep
i love the old school trade style, u can always start a day of trade with a crap item and end with a soj.. not talking about scamming, but trade skill
I dunno, repairing makes a bit of sense. It is not logical to swing a sword at something 500 times and not have a little bit of damage. It should actually be more expensive IMO.
To avoid the problem of having no money there could be a simple debt system that charges interest when you dip below zero gold.
And if you can't maintain your weapon get a cheaper one.
you shouldn't bring logic/realism into a discussion on a game.
there is nothing logical about Diablo
and having that is detriment to gameplay, i don't want to be beating teh crap out of some mobs halfway and have to go back to town to repair my items.
or find a cool item only to not be able to use it much because the durability sucks
you shouldn't bring logic/realism into a discussion on a game.
there is nothing logical about Diablo
and having that is detriment to gameplay, i don't want to be beating teh crap out of some mobs halfway and have to go back to town to repair my items.
or find a cool item only to not be able to use it much because the durability sucks
Diablo is a different world, doesn't mean its not logical. Anyway, these arguments are stupid and pointless.
You also missed the point. D2 repair = FAIL. WoW repair = WIN.
No one wants you to lose your item in the middle of a fight and it doesn't happen with durability that actually LAST. Of course, if you still never repair them, it IS going to happen. But thats why its a good gold sink.
There's just something about the Auction House that doesn't fit into the Diablo world... plus, it brings too much of a WoW feel into the game.
I'm sure if they did implement it, it would be done well. But I have a feeling they are going to expand on player-to-player trade with various tweaks on top of it, instead.
Money sinks and features that are economy focused will only be worked on at the last stretch of game development. The will have very few things implemented right now since they are mostly working on content. Not until the game is fleshed out will they know what they need to add. To get an idea, look at some decent money sinks in Diablo 2 and World of WarCraft.
I'm not sure having an AH in Diablo is wrong, but that it doesn't fit the fast pace of the game.
I think the real challenge is coming up with an integrated trade system that exists outside of the instanced game worlds. One could argue that the trade channel is exactly that, but in reality, it's only a chatroom for advertising (read: spamming) or brokering a deal verbally. The actual trade takes place inside an instance.
What really should happen is that they create a usable and intuitive interface for advertising which items you're offering that persists while you're hacking away at mobs as well as while you're back in the channels/matchmaking interface.
It's this persistence that was lacking in D2. This doesn't mean players should be able to bid on items, but that it be possible for them to browse for and leave offers for items in the owner's mailbox of sorts (that are verbal and nonbinding, but offers nevertheless).
This facilitates trading in a more robust way without slowing the economy or the pace of the game. It encourages interaction and communication and it might even reduce spam in some way.
I'm not sure having an AH in Diablo is wrong, but that it doesn't fit the fast pace of the game.
Uh?
The D2 trading system is far less fitting if thats how you look at it. AH would make everything much easier and faster. If anything, an AH fits way more with the "fast pace" of the game.
What really should happen is that they create a usable and intuitive interface for advertising which items you're offering that persists while you're hacking away at mobs as well as while you're back in the channels/matchmaking interface.
Um...you just described exactly what an AH is. Verbatim.
I liked your idea about posting offers on items posted in the AH.
I'll use items from D2 to make the explanation of my system idea easier to grasp.
I find a Windforce but I'm a Paladin. So I put it up on the AH. Now a Bowazon comes along and sees the Windforce, and posts an offer of a Shako. I really want a shako, but I think that the Windforce is worth just a bit more, so I can send a message through the AH interface to the bowazon who offered a Shako asking them if they can add to their offer. The Bowazon only has a Jah rune as something worth trading, and asks me to counter offer with a bit more. I then adjust my offer to her up to the Windforce and 2x40.15 jewels. She then accepts the offer, and then I accept the offer through the AH interface, and the items are automatically placed into either our inventories or stashes, wherever there is available space. While I'm dealing with this bowazon, I'm also dealing with another bowazon or a necro who wants the Windforce for their alt. Each "trade conversation" is unique, and when I finally decide to accept one of the offers on my windforce, everyone else who had an offer on it is messaged by the AH saying that the windforce they were making offers on has been traded.
This seems like a really good idea to me. What do you guys think?
I have to agree with SFJAKE here having an AH is extremeley fast paced being that all you'd do is simply put an item up scroll down a list of acceptable offer, albeit money, items (AKA runes, pots, etc.), or armors. Then ffrom there its a matter of a search utility feature that searches the AH. Once an item has been found to either A be on sale, or B not be on sale you can either offer your Gold, items, armors, or weapons and if you have what he asks for and you agree with his terms of the trade then simply click a button that acesses all your items in the AH and drag and drop the items onto a similar plane as the trade in diablo and click an accept button and there you go. Your item is now in your inventory where as in his he has obtained the item given to him. Obviouslly if it was not found by the search utility then there would be an option to notify you if you would like, when it goes on sale. There are oobvious restrictions with this being one or both persons has insufficient space somewhere albeit stash or inventory to store said item. It take a while to yes explain the idea and thinking about it seems like it takes a while but in reality its a couple of clicks, wheras your fast paced version the notices while yes are good if your looking for that item otherwise it would just be screen cluttter and a bunch of spamming messages in the message box or on your screen. And no only that it is not as faced paced as an AH because yours involves having both people online. If one were to be offline said transaction could not be complete until said person arrives online and accepts and if the said person should not log on for a few days or hours it would therefore take longer than an AH to trade said item. =] just telling the facts
EDIT: to masterpox if you read the ridiculously long post explaining why ah si fast paced you'll see why i think your idea is like his and therefore not fast paced but ill reiterate down here for quicker reference. You are requiring said persons to be online therefore slowing down the trade. instead of offering and counter offers just have an Ah where you ask for certain things like you put up that windforce but theres a scrolldown list and you can ask up to four things max either seperatley or combined, you put in 40k gold or jalal's now say someone has those, and your offline, why should that guy wait if someone offers something diffrent when you asked specifically for jalals or 40k gold. if someone should have the gold or jalals they should be able to accept and make that trade happen with the offerer offline if the guy with 40k gold offfers it for the windforce.
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My idea would take longer. That's true. But it would also allow you to get the best deal possible on your item. Having multiple people be able to offer on it and adjust their offer to compete against each other is great if your selling.
My idea is exactly how contracts are bid/bought on the market in the real world.
Bottom line, it might be slower, but it makes more sense economically standing.
Let's say that you have an offer from someone your willing to accept but they don't log on for a few days. Nothing in my system prevents you from being impatient and trading it to someone else since that person hasn't been online to trade anyway.
I think you need to understand that I'm talking about having everyone in the server/realm be able to see and bid on your items.
Getting good deals and finding people to trade with wouldn't be an issue with my system.
Most transactions would take place instantly the way that they do in D2 now except that there wouldn't be any cancelling trade screen, running to the stash, grabbing more, and coming back, or god forbid having to go grab a mule. Scamming might even be easier to catch (not that is was ever a problem so long as you weren't an idiot).
How is someone not accepting an offer because they had to go to work and will have to wait to come home to accept the AH offer different than saying "Hey, I have to go to work, trade when I get home?" in diablo 2 and someone holding it for you.
I guess I can understand how you might think it slows down gameplay...but I think when you count up all the parts, it either streamlines the system in parts or doesn't slow it down anymore than it is in d2 in other situations.
I think if you really think about it, you'll like my system.
Quote from "Ent1ty" »
EDIT: to masterpox if you read the ridiculously long post explaining why ah si fast paced you'll see why i think your idea is like his and therefore not fast paced but ill reiterate down here for quicker reference. You are requiring said persons to be online therefore slowing down the trade. instead of offering and counter offers just have an Ah where you ask for certain things like you put up that windforce but theres a scrolldown list and you can ask up to four things max either seperatley or combined, you put in 40k gold or jalal's now say someone has those, and your offline, why should that guy wait if someone offers something diffrent when you asked specifically for jalals or 40k gold. if someone should have the gold or jalals they should be able to accept and make that trade happen with the offerer offline if the guy with 40k gold offfers it for the windforce.
That's easily remedied with an option for the person making an offer to auto accept upon the seller accepting.
Example.
I'm a bowazon and I see a Windforce on the AH. I make an offer on it for a Shako and set my offer to auto accept the deal should the person trading the Windforce agree to trade the windforce for the shako. Even if I'm offline at work, the game would still auto trade the item and it'll be waiting in my stash when I get home. The person with the windforce still has the choice send me a message that I'll get when I get home to adjust my offer if he or she wishes. He'll also be able to see that my offer is set to auto accept.
Yes that would be useful if the person was lookign for offers but again that slows down the fast pace, I do see where your coming from but personally id never let people offer sometimes youd get crap offers not even worth it and then having to stay there and just wait, a big waste of time if you ask me, but i totlly get what your saying and it makes perfect sense. =]
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Yes that would be useful if the person was lookign for offers but again that slows down the fast pace, I do see where your coming from but personally id never let people offer sometimes youd get crap offers not even worth it and then having to stay there and just wait, a big waste of time if you ask me, but i totlly get what your saying and it makes perfect sense. =]
Lol how is that any different than how it works in D2 now?
I'll eventually draw up a huge system proposal (how they do it in the real world when they're designing the game)
Right now my idea is to set up the system so that you can essentially trade just like we always have in D2 without actually having to be in a game.
To remedy the whole trying to trade an item for specific items, just add a comment box to the posting interface where you can list the items your specifically looking for, and whether your willing to accept other offers or not.
That's not terribly complicated to program and implement.
Edit:
I just spent literally all day doing algebra for class, I came on here to unwind and talk about diablo 3, so thanks for challenging my noodle on how to design and implement a decent AH system. It's fun as hell for me. :-D
lol no problem and to your quetoon how its diffrent than d2 other than it being outside the game because in D2 you could put up and offer and request a specific item and auto trade if someone has that item willing to trade for yours. =]
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lol no problem and to your quetoon how its diffrent than d2 other than it being outside the game because in D2 you could put up and offer and request a specific item and auto trade if someone has that item willing to trade for yours. =]
Yeah. The system that I'm working on planning out is going to allow you to do all of that. Look at offers and request specific items. The advantage is that all of the Bullshit offers aren't going to require you to leave a trade window and wait 5 seconds for someone else to click on you and make another bullshit offer. You can just either ignore or straight up reject dumb offers on ur items in an AH ui.
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I don't know how much you played wow...but if I dropped an item off at the AH in silvermoon, it showed up at the AH in orgrimmar. It's perfectly doable in diablo 3. It'd be an NPC in each town (or major city) that you talk to, click on an option to open up the global trade screen.
It'd work exactly the same way as it does in WoW. Sure, some people would spam trade, but that'd be true with or without an auction house. it would for sure be reduced dramatically with an auction house.
I don't know what you're smoking, but you're totally wrong about an AH not being able to work in Diablo.
A great money sink system in Diablo 3 would probably look very similiar to WoW. Repairs, respeccs, and transactional costs of doing trades via the AH.
A good economic system in a game that fights inflation has two parts:
1. Balanced rate of gold acquisition and gold loss. Don't make it too easy to turn huge profits. Sure, make it possible for the players who like to play around with the game economy, but don't make it a no brainer.
2. Integral systems in the game that require the use of gold and no other items.
These two things cause the following to happen:
1. Relatively hard to acquire wealth.
2. Acquired wealth has meaning and purpose.
Diablo 2 had integral systems in the game that required money. Lots of them. What it didn't have was a balanced rate of gold acquisition to loss. therefore, the integral systems didn't really seem integral and important, because no one ever had a problem getting the money to pay them.
Let's also keep in mind that if rare items with random stats rule the d3 economy like they keep saying they want to, even if it's only partially, then an interface where you put up gold and set it to auto buy an item with certain stats would be pretty complicated (because computers are stupid and you have to tell them exactly what you want them to look for and to do), would lend itself to a high rate of user error, and you would sometimes mess up the item query selection and end up buying an item that you didn't exactly want.
Let's say that you want to buy a rare sword that has a certain damage range with 4% life steal. now you put up the 200 gold that you want to spend on the item, except you accidentally put in mana steal instead of life steal and you're a barbarian. You're stuck with a sword that doesn't do anything for you and out 200 gold to actually buy what you do want.
It's just easier to program, build, and use an interface that allows the buyer to peruse a selection of items rather than create a wishlist for gold he wishes to spend.
I hope these long posts don't bore you guys. I really enjoy talking about game economics and systems. I'm going to school to become a game programmer/designer.
So AH would bring easy way to trade items and stuff but you could still do the old school trading if you wanted.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
yep
i love the old school trade style, u can always start a day of trade with a crap item and end with a soj.. not talking about scamming, but trade skill
you shouldn't bring logic/realism into a discussion on a game.
there is nothing logical about Diablo
and having that is detriment to gameplay, i don't want to be beating teh crap out of some mobs halfway and have to go back to town to repair my items.
or find a cool item only to not be able to use it much because the durability sucks
Diablo is a different world, doesn't mean its not logical. Anyway, these arguments are stupid and pointless.
You also missed the point. D2 repair = FAIL. WoW repair = WIN.
No one wants you to lose your item in the middle of a fight and it doesn't happen with durability that actually LAST. Of course, if you still never repair them, it IS going to happen. But thats why its a good gold sink.
I'm sure if they did implement it, it would be done well. But I have a feeling they are going to expand on player-to-player trade with various tweaks on top of it, instead.
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Stay awhile, and listen.
I think the real challenge is coming up with an integrated trade system that exists outside of the instanced game worlds. One could argue that the trade channel is exactly that, but in reality, it's only a chatroom for advertising (read: spamming) or brokering a deal verbally. The actual trade takes place inside an instance.
What really should happen is that they create a usable and intuitive interface for advertising which items you're offering that persists while you're hacking away at mobs as well as while you're back in the channels/matchmaking interface.
It's this persistence that was lacking in D2. This doesn't mean players should be able to bid on items, but that it be possible for them to browse for and leave offers for items in the owner's mailbox of sorts (that are verbal and nonbinding, but offers nevertheless).
This facilitates trading in a more robust way without slowing the economy or the pace of the game. It encourages interaction and communication and it might even reduce spam in some way.
Uh?
The D2 trading system is far less fitting if thats how you look at it. AH would make everything much easier and faster. If anything, an AH fits way more with the "fast pace" of the game.
Um...you just described exactly what an AH is. Verbatim.
I liked your idea about posting offers on items posted in the AH.
I'll use items from D2 to make the explanation of my system idea easier to grasp.
I find a Windforce but I'm a Paladin. So I put it up on the AH. Now a Bowazon comes along and sees the Windforce, and posts an offer of a Shako. I really want a shako, but I think that the Windforce is worth just a bit more, so I can send a message through the AH interface to the bowazon who offered a Shako asking them if they can add to their offer. The Bowazon only has a Jah rune as something worth trading, and asks me to counter offer with a bit more. I then adjust my offer to her up to the Windforce and 2x40.15 jewels. She then accepts the offer, and then I accept the offer through the AH interface, and the items are automatically placed into either our inventories or stashes, wherever there is available space. While I'm dealing with this bowazon, I'm also dealing with another bowazon or a necro who wants the Windforce for their alt. Each "trade conversation" is unique, and when I finally decide to accept one of the offers on my windforce, everyone else who had an offer on it is messaged by the AH saying that the windforce they were making offers on has been traded.
This seems like a really good idea to me. What do you guys think?
EDIT: to masterpox if you read the ridiculously long post explaining why ah si fast paced you'll see why i think your idea is like his and therefore not fast paced but ill reiterate down here for quicker reference. You are requiring said persons to be online therefore slowing down the trade. instead of offering and counter offers just have an Ah where you ask for certain things like you put up that windforce but theres a scrolldown list and you can ask up to four things max either seperatley or combined, you put in 40k gold or jalal's now say someone has those, and your offline, why should that guy wait if someone offers something diffrent when you asked specifically for jalals or 40k gold. if someone should have the gold or jalals they should be able to accept and make that trade happen with the offerer offline if the guy with 40k gold offfers it for the windforce.
My idea is exactly how contracts are bid/bought on the market in the real world.
Bottom line, it might be slower, but it makes more sense economically standing.
Let's say that you have an offer from someone your willing to accept but they don't log on for a few days. Nothing in my system prevents you from being impatient and trading it to someone else since that person hasn't been online to trade anyway.
I think you need to understand that I'm talking about having everyone in the server/realm be able to see and bid on your items.
Getting good deals and finding people to trade with wouldn't be an issue with my system.
Most transactions would take place instantly the way that they do in D2 now except that there wouldn't be any cancelling trade screen, running to the stash, grabbing more, and coming back, or god forbid having to go grab a mule. Scamming might even be easier to catch (not that is was ever a problem so long as you weren't an idiot).
How is someone not accepting an offer because they had to go to work and will have to wait to come home to accept the AH offer different than saying "Hey, I have to go to work, trade when I get home?" in diablo 2 and someone holding it for you.
I guess I can understand how you might think it slows down gameplay...but I think when you count up all the parts, it either streamlines the system in parts or doesn't slow it down anymore than it is in d2 in other situations.
I think if you really think about it, you'll like my system.
That's easily remedied with an option for the person making an offer to auto accept upon the seller accepting.
Example.
I'm a bowazon and I see a Windforce on the AH. I make an offer on it for a Shako and set my offer to auto accept the deal should the person trading the Windforce agree to trade the windforce for the shako. Even if I'm offline at work, the game would still auto trade the item and it'll be waiting in my stash when I get home. The person with the windforce still has the choice send me a message that I'll get when I get home to adjust my offer if he or she wishes. He'll also be able to see that my offer is set to auto accept.
Does that make sense?
Lol how is that any different than how it works in D2 now?
I'll eventually draw up a huge system proposal (how they do it in the real world when they're designing the game)
Right now my idea is to set up the system so that you can essentially trade just like we always have in D2 without actually having to be in a game.
To remedy the whole trying to trade an item for specific items, just add a comment box to the posting interface where you can list the items your specifically looking for, and whether your willing to accept other offers or not.
That's not terribly complicated to program and implement.
Edit:
I just spent literally all day doing algebra for class, I came on here to unwind and talk about diablo 3, so thanks for challenging my noodle on how to design and implement a decent AH system. It's fun as hell for me. :-D
Yeah. The system that I'm working on planning out is going to allow you to do all of that. Look at offers and request specific items. The advantage is that all of the Bullshit offers aren't going to require you to leave a trade window and wait 5 seconds for someone else to click on you and make another bullshit offer. You can just either ignore or straight up reject dumb offers on ur items in an AH ui.