Alright, I don't know about you, but on countless occasions when leveling in Diablo 2, (specifically Baal runs), when my mercenary is quite a few levels lower than I am, He ends up dying, causing me to pay over and over to revive him.
What are your thoughts on Mercenary Control in Diablo 3, being able to specify where he/she moves, whether or not they defend or attack, what attacks they use (assuming they can have multiple in D3), etc?
we don't know we will have the same D2 hireling system in D1. Also all we know is that they are now called companion (maybe is not that name >_<), can be more then one, and sometimes are involved in quests.
If we have the same system of hire a merc, then i totally agree we should give then small orders like moves. They also need a much better AI, they were really stupid in D2.
My personal point of view is that they are not necessary... I don't like the idea of hire npcs in any game (the hirelings totally destroyed guild wars Nightfall imo).
Something like teh AI control for ally bots in the game Perfect Dark (N64) would be nice. I have yet to see buddy AI TO be matChed in any game to date.
Don't use a merc.. they just make the game too easy.
How do you know mercs will make D3 to easy??? And if your referring to D2 being to easy with them...well the game was to easy anyways with or without a merc....
Honestly id love to have simple commands for my mercs in D#(assuming there in it) Simple stuff like, Attack Nearest, stand guard, follow, defend, ...crap like that
I don't want permanent mercs to multiplayer at least.. single players can have them if they feel its so fun to socialise with A.I, or just to have some companion.
If we are being forced to party in D3 multiplayer we surely won't need a merc.
If there will be mercs they should be weak.. in D2 they can tank mobs better than the main character sometimes which makes the Hero thing kinda weird.
If you play Classic, there we have the old style mercs that you can hire for one act to help out a bit.. thats a good style of mercs. And in the last act closer to Diablo the area filled with Demons and Undeads, mercs doesn't even exists.. they are too scared to enter that place and only the main character .. our hero have the guts to beat that place.
I usually play as a Sorc (ES/Frozen Orb), from my experience, no matter how many points you have in Cold Mastery, you cannot break cold immunes, therefore I use an act 2 merc to kill the monsters I can't..
Sure, I have some points into lightning skills as prerequisites, but theres no way I can kill cold immunes in hell.
Seeing as D3 is more coop play, rather than single player (like D2), this shouldn't be a problem, but if they do introduce mercs again, I think the more control would be better...
I didn't read the posts, but my opinion, is that there should be a better AI, one that only attacks when you attack. This prevents people from just using the NPC to do everything.
The reason I don't want to control them, is because then we must micro-manage them, this leaves them as complete idiots waiting to know when to attack, defend, or stand still...
I doubt blizz wants us to sit there pressing attack now, rather than attacking them ourselves..
In the game programming there should be a mechanic that states what mode you are in. (this is automatic). When you are in town, you are in neutral mode. When you are standing outside of town, you are in defensive mode. If you engage an enemy you are in agressive mode.
I came up with this mainly for the purpose of directing the Npc AI, but it could be used for other things (but not for increased damage etc...)
Basically the way you act changes the npc commands. If you stand still outside, you NPC should become defensive, and not attack, but if a monster charges for him, or you, then he attacks (defensively). If his health hits "red" then he will flee behind you.
When you run toward an enemy you are attacking agressively, this makes your merc attack stronger, he will not care about his health, and keep attacking till he won, or till hes dead.
Being neutral, in town, he puts his weapon away, and just follows you..
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I'm curious myself to see what they do with mercs. As far as direct control of where they go and what they do; I think that is honestly too much micro management for a Diablo game. In my opinion the AI of the merc should be smart enough to decide what to do when. Granted that didn't work too well in D2, but lets face it that the game is like 10 years old and I'm sure computer AI has gotten much, much better.
Anyways I would like to see greater customization with your merc so you can really make it "your" merc. We still have yet to see what they have in store, but whatever it is I'm sure it will blow our pants off.
From what I've seen in the gameplay videos, the game is very fast paced. You will be pushing on all the time and using several different skills all the time. Feels like a merc would kinda be left behind in that kind of pace and at least I wouldn't bother to micro manage anything else but my own character.
When playing LOD in D2 I used to have merc if my character was weak and badly geared. But when I got stronger with my char I just didn't bother to revive the merc anymore because it was more fun to play when I could beat everything by myself. One stupid thing with D2 mercs was the auras.. for example as a barbarian, no matter how strong you were it was stupid to leave out the might aura because it was so obvious and easy way to gain extra damage.
If mercs ever appear in the game, they need to be fixed completely and they can't be too strong.
I wrote a thread about my idea for the Mercenary system half a year or more ago, I approached the system similarly, but instead of simply dictating where he goes I would give him instructions on keeping close or far, similar to the Fallout 1 and 2 buddy system (at least I think that's what I wrote)
But anyway, I wrote a few paragraphs about it and even color categorized it. Look it up for more detail than that if any of you are interested.
The last sentance is based on that they will look and act like in D2 right? It is not even comparable, D2 was 2D isometric lol, and old...
Nono it was about if they are in the game.. .. so if they bring mercs to D3.. the whole system needs to be fixed.. nowadays the mercs aren't in any balance, Act2 mercs pretty much rule every other merc etc. and they are too strong.
I don't want permanent mercs to multiplayer at least.. single players can have them if they feel its so fun to socialise with A.I, or just to have some companion.
If we are being forced to party in D3 multiplayer we surely won't need a merc.
Agreed. Not to mention all the classes are able to "fend for themselves" as blizz put it.
(Unlike in D2 where a amazon or sorcy were at the mercy of the melee mobs they couldn't kill in time)
I mean the witchdoctor has a fucking AOE fear for fucks sake... can you get more overpowered than that for crowd control?
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I don't think a control scheme would work out too well. Most of the time you're busy clicking on the screen for your main character, and now with the added hotbar for skills, you're even more busy.
All they would need to do is tweak the system to make it less of a headache.
A few of the changes I would personally like to see, given the experience in D2:
1. Mercs level whenever the character levels. They are not on their own separate exp. bar. No matter how many times they die or get left behind, they always remain the same level as the player character. Expanding on this, this means that if you're level 99 and you go to Act 1 on Normal difficulty to purchase a merc, that merc is level 99. The Nightmare and Hell difficulties have better mercs however, as their base stats are more in line with the harder difficulties.
2. If a merc is about to die, it runs behind the character and does not engage monsters until it has recovered 75% of its health. It will however, engage monsters if the player is about to die, or if the merc is attacked. Dropped health orbs and health potions will also heal the merc on top of healing the player.
3. Perhaps instead of dying, when the merc reaches 0% health he will run out of battle saying something like, "I am overwhelmed! I will meet you back in town when my wounds have healed." He then runs off the screen and disappears. A small timer may appear under his portrait, if he has one, showing the time remaining until you can return to town and retrieve your merc fully healed. This acts as a sort of 'cooldown' on mercs so they are not grossly overused, and it removes the money sink which I think wasn't needed in the first place.
4. Mercs should have their own skill trees that you can manually spec. Simplified, and smaller than the player skill trees, but still including clear cut paths such as "these skills are for tanking mercs, these skills are for offensive mercs, and these skills are for utility mercs". Mercs get skill points to spend possibly every 2 player levels. This means no more confusing "Defensive, Offensive" merc hireables. Everyone hires the same type of merc (each merc is unique to their act in appearance and skills of course) but they can spec them to suit their own personal gameplay style. How simplified are the merc skill trees? it should never take you longer than 5 seconds to decide where to put skill points next. Everything should be clear cut.
3. Perhaps instead of dying, when the merc reaches 0% health he will run out of battle saying something like, "I am overwhelmed! I will meet you back in town when my wounds have healed." He then runs off the screen and disappears. A small timer may appear under his portrait, if he has one, showing the time remaining until you can return to town and retrieve your merc fully healed. This acts as a sort of 'cooldown' on mercs so they are not grossly overused, and it removes the money sink which I think wasn't needed in the first place.
Liked all of the ideas but the one above. Feels way to PG13 to be in Diablo3.
Agreed, having added controls for the merc would be a tad overwhelming. It should all be passive or make it so you can only control the merc's passive stance when you are out of combat.
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A lot of these ideas sound great but I'm hoping that with better AI, these ideas won't be necessary.
You should only really have to turn attack on and off with the merc.
With attack off, the merc just follows, doesn't attack and doesn't take damage. If you turn attack on, it follows, attacks whatever you attack and takes damage. If the merc gets low on health and you turn attack off, it no longer takes damage. If you let the merc die, you have to pay to revive them.
To the hater, it seems like it's too easy to keep your mercs alive. To them I say, so what? It should be just as easy to watch your health and mana orbs and keep them up too, no? But you will die and so will your merc.
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A lot of these ideas sound great but I'm hoping that with better AI, these ideas won't be necessary.
You should only really have to turn attack on and off with the merc.
With attack off, the merc just follows, doesn't attack and doesn't take damage. If you turn attack on, it follows, attacks whatever you attack and takes damage. If the merc gets low on health and you turn attack off, it no longer takes damage. If you let the merc die, you have to pay to revive them.
To the hater, it seems like it's too easy to keep your mercs alive. To them I say, so what? It should be just as easy to watch your health and mana orbs and keep them up too, no? But you will die and so will your merc.
definately no, to this idea..
but HELL YES, to the skill tree idea (for merc's). They could have maybe 2-3 tiers, each tier with 3 skills..(1 skill from each "tab")
But, the merc should be limited to (if there are 9 skills. He should be limited to like 5.. Also, each merc should have a kamikazee move, that if you are low on health (in red); he will run in front of you, and maybe blow up attack like crazy, but when he is killed, he blows up.. IDK..
I'm very surprised no one liked my idea for merc control. That if you stand, he is in defense, if you attack, he is in aggressive mode, if he is attacked in defense mode, he will try to defend you, and won't become aggressive till you attack back..
I thought this idea removes micro management, and would prove to be a BRILLIANT AI.
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
@DarkMagicc:
If mercs exist in D3, i also hope he have a good AI and do not requires micro management.
The problem of your suggestion is that not all mercs should act the same way (Ex: archer should allways runnaway when enemies starts to attack, but tankers should stand and face the oponents) or people may want they act in different way. I found the Defensive/Agressive/Passive option pointed here by someoone nicer.
@DarkMagicc:
If mercs exist in D3, i also hope he have a good AI and do not requires micro management.
The problem of your suggestion is that not all mercs should act the same way (Ex: archer should allways runnaway when enemies starts to attack, but tankers should stand and face the oponents) or people may want they act in different way. I found the Defensive/Agressive/Passive option pointed here by someoone nicer.
yes, and the mechanic I stated on the (1st page is it??) it decides automatically if she is in defense, aggressive, passive, etc. The only difference, is that you don't physically decide when.
This way you can't force your merc to do ALL the work for you. But your merc only engages the enemy offensively, when you attack. But she is defensive when you stand, and she is passive when you run.
When she is passive she doesn't attack at all. But when she is defensive she attacks very little, and puts all her energy into her shield.
It doesn't matter if you have a archer merc, or a tanker, or a caster. The basic principles still apply. The specific AI needs to be decided by blizz.
For the archer, she always attacks from range. When she is in aggressive, she will attack with her bow, and keep her distance. In passive she won't attack. In defense, she will go close to you, and mainly use her shield to absorb the hits, rather then them going to you.
The second you start attacking, she enters aggressive mode, and runs back and fires...
A tanker merc. Same for passive. For defense, he will absorb the hits for you ..same.. For aggressive; when you start attacking he could leap into battle, depending (if he is heavily armored or not), or he could lunge into the first enemy..
All my mechanic does, is base how your merc behaves, based on you.. If you attack, and then stop..(your merc will still be fighting, but he might enter defense mode after you stopping for more than 30 seconds..
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
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What are your thoughts on Mercenary Control in Diablo 3, being able to specify where he/she moves, whether or not they defend or attack, what attacks they use (assuming they can have multiple in D3), etc?
If we have the same system of hire a merc, then i totally agree we should give then small orders like moves. They also need a much better AI, they were really stupid in D2.
My personal point of view is that they are not necessary... I don't like the idea of hire npcs in any game (the hirelings totally destroyed guild wars Nightfall imo).
Do it. Ok. Just do it. tHANKS
~wALL
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
How do you know mercs will make D3 to easy??? And if your referring to D2 being to easy with them...well the game was to easy anyways with or without a merc....
Honestly id love to have simple commands for my mercs in D#(assuming there in it) Simple stuff like, Attack Nearest, stand guard, follow, defend, ...crap like that
If we are being forced to party in D3 multiplayer we surely won't need a merc.
If there will be mercs they should be weak.. in D2 they can tank mobs better than the main character sometimes which makes the Hero thing kinda weird.
If you play Classic, there we have the old style mercs that you can hire for one act to help out a bit.. thats a good style of mercs. And in the last act closer to Diablo the area filled with Demons and Undeads, mercs doesn't even exists.. they are too scared to enter that place and only the main character .. our hero have the guts to beat that place.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Sure, I have some points into lightning skills as prerequisites, but theres no way I can kill cold immunes in hell.
Seeing as D3 is more coop play, rather than single player (like D2), this shouldn't be a problem, but if they do introduce mercs again, I think the more control would be better...
The reason I don't want to control them, is because then we must micro-manage them, this leaves them as complete idiots waiting to know when to attack, defend, or stand still...
I doubt blizz wants us to sit there pressing attack now, rather than attacking them ourselves..
In the game programming there should be a mechanic that states what mode you are in. (this is automatic). When you are in town, you are in neutral mode. When you are standing outside of town, you are in defensive mode. If you engage an enemy you are in agressive mode.
I came up with this mainly for the purpose of directing the Npc AI, but it could be used for other things (but not for increased damage etc...)
Basically the way you act changes the npc commands. If you stand still outside, you NPC should become defensive, and not attack, but if a monster charges for him, or you, then he attacks (defensively). If his health hits "red" then he will flee behind you.
When you run toward an enemy you are attacking agressively, this makes your merc attack stronger, he will not care about his health, and keep attacking till he won, or till hes dead.
Being neutral, in town, he puts his weapon away, and just follows you..
Anyways I would like to see greater customization with your merc so you can really make it "your" merc. We still have yet to see what they have in store, but whatever it is I'm sure it will blow our pants off.
When playing LOD in D2 I used to have merc if my character was weak and badly geared. But when I got stronger with my char I just didn't bother to revive the merc anymore because it was more fun to play when I could beat everything by myself. One stupid thing with D2 mercs was the auras.. for example as a barbarian, no matter how strong you were it was stupid to leave out the might aura because it was so obvious and easy way to gain extra damage.
If mercs ever appear in the game, they need to be fixed completely and they can't be too strong.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
But anyway, I wrote a few paragraphs about it and even color categorized it. Look it up for more detail than that if any of you are interested.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Agreed. Not to mention all the classes are able to "fend for themselves" as blizz put it.
(Unlike in D2 where a amazon or sorcy were at the mercy of the melee mobs they couldn't kill in time)
I mean the witchdoctor has a fucking AOE fear for fucks sake... can you get more overpowered than that for crowd control?
^The real scrub filter.^
I don't think a control scheme would work out too well. Most of the time you're busy clicking on the screen for your main character, and now with the added hotbar for skills, you're even more busy.
All they would need to do is tweak the system to make it less of a headache.
A few of the changes I would personally like to see, given the experience in D2:
1. Mercs level whenever the character levels. They are not on their own separate exp. bar. No matter how many times they die or get left behind, they always remain the same level as the player character. Expanding on this, this means that if you're level 99 and you go to Act 1 on Normal difficulty to purchase a merc, that merc is level 99. The Nightmare and Hell difficulties have better mercs however, as their base stats are more in line with the harder difficulties.
2. If a merc is about to die, it runs behind the character and does not engage monsters until it has recovered 75% of its health. It will however, engage monsters if the player is about to die, or if the merc is attacked. Dropped health orbs and health potions will also heal the merc on top of healing the player.
3. Perhaps instead of dying, when the merc reaches 0% health he will run out of battle saying something like, "I am overwhelmed! I will meet you back in town when my wounds have healed." He then runs off the screen and disappears. A small timer may appear under his portrait, if he has one, showing the time remaining until you can return to town and retrieve your merc fully healed. This acts as a sort of 'cooldown' on mercs so they are not grossly overused, and it removes the money sink which I think wasn't needed in the first place.
4. Mercs should have their own skill trees that you can manually spec. Simplified, and smaller than the player skill trees, but still including clear cut paths such as "these skills are for tanking mercs, these skills are for offensive mercs, and these skills are for utility mercs". Mercs get skill points to spend possibly every 2 player levels. This means no more confusing "Defensive, Offensive" merc hireables. Everyone hires the same type of merc (each merc is unique to their act in appearance and skills of course) but they can spec them to suit their own personal gameplay style. How simplified are the merc skill trees? it should never take you longer than 5 seconds to decide where to put skill points next. Everything should be clear cut.
Liked all of the ideas but the one above. Feels way to PG13 to be in Diablo3.
Agreed, having added controls for the merc would be a tad overwhelming. It should all be passive or make it so you can only control the merc's passive stance when you are out of combat.
^The real scrub filter.^
You should only really have to turn attack on and off with the merc.
With attack off, the merc just follows, doesn't attack and doesn't take damage. If you turn attack on, it follows, attacks whatever you attack and takes damage. If the merc gets low on health and you turn attack off, it no longer takes damage. If you let the merc die, you have to pay to revive them.
To the hater, it seems like it's too easy to keep your mercs alive. To them I say, so what? It should be just as easy to watch your health and mana orbs and keep them up too, no? But you will die and so will your merc.
definately no, to this idea..
but HELL YES, to the skill tree idea (for merc's). They could have maybe 2-3 tiers, each tier with 3 skills..(1 skill from each "tab")
But, the merc should be limited to (if there are 9 skills. He should be limited to like 5.. Also, each merc should have a kamikazee move, that if you are low on health (in red); he will run in front of you, and maybe blow up attack like crazy, but when he is killed, he blows up.. IDK..
I'm very surprised no one liked my idea for merc control. That if you stand, he is in defense, if you attack, he is in aggressive mode, if he is attacked in defense mode, he will try to defend you, and won't become aggressive till you attack back..
I thought this idea removes micro management, and would prove to be a BRILLIANT AI.
If mercs exist in D3, i also hope he have a good AI and do not requires micro management.
The problem of your suggestion is that not all mercs should act the same way (Ex: archer should allways runnaway when enemies starts to attack, but tankers should stand and face the oponents) or people may want they act in different way. I found the Defensive/Agressive/Passive option pointed here by someoone nicer.
yes, and the mechanic I stated on the (1st page is it??) it decides automatically if she is in defense, aggressive, passive, etc. The only difference, is that you don't physically decide when.
This way you can't force your merc to do ALL the work for you. But your merc only engages the enemy offensively, when you attack. But she is defensive when you stand, and she is passive when you run.
When she is passive she doesn't attack at all. But when she is defensive she attacks very little, and puts all her energy into her shield.
It doesn't matter if you have a archer merc, or a tanker, or a caster. The basic principles still apply. The specific AI needs to be decided by blizz.
For the archer, she always attacks from range. When she is in aggressive, she will attack with her bow, and keep her distance. In passive she won't attack. In defense, she will go close to you, and mainly use her shield to absorb the hits, rather then them going to you.
The second you start attacking, she enters aggressive mode, and runs back and fires...
A tanker merc. Same for passive. For defense, he will absorb the hits for you ..same.. For aggressive; when you start attacking he could leap into battle, depending (if he is heavily armored or not), or he could lunge into the first enemy..
All my mechanic does, is base how your merc behaves, based on you.. If you attack, and then stop..(your merc will still be fighting, but he might enter defense mode after you stopping for more than 30 seconds..