Well, respeccing doesn't mean changing ALL YOUR skills..
What I like about blizz, is that they take mechanics that people know, and set them up differently, or in a way that wasn't used, or just used badly, in a game that doesn't need it..
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
Respec was confirmed enough for me long before Jay Wilsom show favorable opnions about respecs in the game.
Every single good RPg maded to be played online have a respec - not putting it in the game is a huge step behind. People nowdays don't like to spend time in a game with a thing they don't enjoy - so do something boring (like level a pvp build or a character you already have played) are out of question. "No pain, no gain" don't apply to games anymore.
Only hardcore freaks who have sticked with D2 even after many other (better) games come out likes this reroll masoquism.
D2 had infinite free respecs because you could rush and boost a new character in matter of hours. Rushing was the shittiest mechanic in any game ever, but it allowed D2 to remain so popular because people didn't HAVE to work for months to remake a character. D3 will give you respecs instead of letting you rush, so I say good riddance to rushing, and bring on a supported means of respec that is not tromendously tedious like it was in D2.
Perhaps respecing should be much easier on Single Player and Ladder, and then really hard in Non-Ladder
With no respecing at all in Hardcore (its supposed to be hard, right?)
Or if you wanted a harsh respec mechanic. Every respec your character does, cuts off that characters possible maximum level. Say naturally, 100 is highest, then after 1 respec you can only level to 90 or something
Quote from "Morden79" »
maybe D3 is not the game for you...
Quote from "FreezeMe" »
you probably shouldn't play D3.
These type of comments don't do anyone any good at all
Heres an idea I think could work well for respecs and the penalty applied.
Giving things like gold and items each respec imo won't work well. It's very easy to attain these through your own higher level characters, friends, or for some people ebay etc..
I agree with a previous post that respecs seem like a bad idea allowing anyone to try every kind of spec in 15 minutes. Therefore a system with a cooldown of time after each respec, be it a week or a month depending on what seems fair by Blizz could be the way to go. This way respecs can be in the game, without being abused and people won't feel too severely penalised when using them, losing exp, gold etc.
Would being a zealer really be that easy in d2 if you were playing single player without help from others and gear from others?
lol i kno someone who didnt play diablo much and never online and they ended up as a kind of zealer but couldn't beat duriel at almost lvl 30. (then i put 1 point in thorns and raped duriel for them)
on topic: im really excited about respeccing. the low levels of D2 were just a rush to get to act 5 and repeating the same things over and over to try out a new build then if u made 1 misclick ur fucked and have to do it again. with respecs i can try out all the skills and see what i like and even make builds for different situations without needing multiple characters
also i dont see how people could actually complain about respeccing making it too easy to try all the builds. it allows you to find what playstyle is the most fun for you without wasting the time rushing 8 different pallies to level 80
I really fail to see why spending time on building your character and then finding out it isn't quite optimal is "shameful". How is failure wrong when you had a great time doing it?
I agree that there is nothing wrong with building a character in a build that isn't quite optimal. However, most people are not going to "have a great time" grinding a new character from scratch after playing through the game several times with other characters. But if you do enjoy this, then the inclusion of a respec does not in any way hinder your ability to do so. It simply caters to people who perhaps don't have as much free time as you, and allows them to play through all the content the game has to offer.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
I want Blizzard to focus on making it possible to play a many variety of fun builds, respects just sounds like an excuse to not even bother imo.
Blizzard is indeed developing a number of different viable builds per chracter, as we can see emerging from the early skill trees we have seen so far. However, I do not understand how this has anything to do with respecs at all - Surely a respec isn't going to change your base skill tree? You will still have the ability to build it any way you want to.
And again - how you build your chracter has nothing to do with the inclusion of respecs, it is actually to do with the choices the players make. I'm certainly excited about trying out different builds at different stages of the game, and I will definately try to do so if I have time. Wouldn't you too? What if Blizzard made it take so long to build a character with these builds that we essentially didn't have time to try them?
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
I just fail to see why respecs is needed
I fail to see how the game could be more successful without it. Respecs are all about adding choice to the game, whereas a system without it takes away your choice. With respecs you still have the choice to do everything the D2 way if that's really what you prefer.
I certainly haven't heard any objective reasoning from anywhere that makes much sense as to why it would be a good idea - people are mostly stuck on the "D2 made me work hard to respec, and I liked feeling like I was doing lots of work in order enjoy the full content in the game".
Someone earlier hit the nail on the head: I think people need to ask whether a game (read:entertainment) is meant to feel like "hard work", or whether it should instead be enjoyable. (hint:level grinds, although enjoyable for a little while, will always inevitably become a frustrating and tiresome element of the game)
If you enjoy hard work so much, get a fkn job.
Quote from "Dimebog" »
Blah blah...
D2 had infinite free respecs because you could rush and boost a new character in matter of hours. Rushing was the shittiest mechanic in any game ever, but it allowed D2 to remain so popular because people didn't HAVE to work for months to remake a character. D3 will give you respecs instead of letting you rush, so I say good riddance to rushing, and bring on a supported means of respec that is not tromendously tedious like it was in D2.
/topic
Agree entirely. If they made a respec cost you about as much time as the whole rushing then I don't see how anyone could argue it could be a bad thing - it simply means you aren't exploiting a loophole in the game progression design to get there.
If they put a constantly increasing gold price on respeccing in D3, and also make it require a reagent item that drops in the gameworld, that alone would be ways more limiting than D2 was. The reagent would also become a trading good and it is a better solution than putting a 7-day cooldown on the respec service since that would make people who really want to respec give up playing from time to time until they can finally do it (which is bad juju for game design). This way, if you want to respec, go hunting for the reagent item and cash out money. It may take a few days. I'm sure it could be made much longer than the process it took you to remake a high level char in D2. And you can't argue that. You can only QQ without an argument. Chances are that respeccing in D3 will be much harder than it was in D2.
This is about how I feel about respecs unless they have a nasty cost. (referring to Ivaron above and the link in his sig)
i still like his suggestions (well his top 7) better than any in this thread except Genesis's.
especially restricting it to non-ladder only or making only the last skill point respeccable.
i like Genesis's idea from this thread:
Quote from "Genesis" »
Every respec your character does, cuts off that characters possible maximum level. Say naturally, 100 is highest, then after 1 respec you can only level to 90 or something
i really like that one (might be favorite), so that if you want a leveling/racing character or a pvp one you can't respec and remain competitive.
and from the other thread i also like emilemil1's idea (the top one not the pve/pvp one), and someone else's idea (that i can't find now to credit) that using a respec left a permanent mark on the character.. so that not using one would make the character special. (and conversely, using one would taint a character :P)
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they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
Well.. i gotta say, that yeah, the skill tree function was a real pain. It did have one semi-good trait though. IT let you make your other skills stronger, the synergy thing was nice. With that, even when you maxed a skill you could still make it stronger. The requirements part was really annoying though.
But respecing would be nice ( if by this you mean you can clear your skills and get a new set of any combination ) Would this be anything like the Talent spec from WoW? Well.. the part that lets you clear it and re-enter your talent points.
I would like the Synergy effect to be kept, but the skill req to go away.
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I am one of many...
Do not consider me insane or crazy, I am but a person who seeks a change in the life styles of life we must live.
Conformity has no curve.. but is a circle at the same time...
Do not judge me for attempting to change the way in which i live my life, while i slowly change the lives of those around me...
For when i am gone.. the world will have changed... if only slightly. But when i am gone.. others will take my place...
Now that we all know Doppelganger hates me because he can't handle what is ahead, lets get back on a REAL conversation. Maybe I would stick to it as well if people would stop this "I don't want respecs" QQ business, Blizzard intends to implement it and if they don't, I will live with that as you will live with it if they DO implement respecs. The point I was making was that your discussion about "No respecs" was irrelevant now that we have confirmed respecs, that is until Blizzard happens to step back and tell us they just won't work in Diablo 3. This topic is clearly about the confirmation of respecs, and I think that even mods would agree that "QQ no respecs" is clearly counterproductive and off topic. Sorry if I used harsh phrases to depict the reality of what is coming for us, but people need to leave their old cryfests behind and make way for Diablo 3 w/ respecs. Its a shame that all so many people cannot maturely handle that for what it is at this point: reality.
Now lets get back to the real subject here. Since respecs at this point WILL be an addition to Diablo 3, let us find a way to have respecs without taking all the fun out of the game, something some people around here unfortunately can't be open minded enough to fathom. None of us want to rain on anyone else's fun, and if people have fun rolling a ton of characters, let it be, but don't require it for everybody. How is that fair to the gaming community as a whole? Diablo 2 mainly became all about "hardcore" gamers, and it tended to ruin the fun for many of us and our friends...
Edit: Missed a whole page of topic before I reposted XD. That is no good.
Personally, after reading Ivaron's post, I tend to lean toward a softcore/nonladder only method. Respecing in Ladder and Hardcore would surely not be fair to the more deciated hardcore gamers. By allowing single player and softcore mode players to respec, it will give the casual gamer just what he needs to have fun. Casual gamers aren't by any means trying to be THE BEST, we just want to have fun and know we can complete the FULL game (including Hell mode), with what we have, and know that we don't have to create multiple characters just because we goofed up on a few talents that would be better spent elsewhere. I personally even think an experience penalty could be very viable when mixed with this single/softcore only respecs method. It would make the casual game a little more of a challenge, but not so big of a challenge that it would prohibit us from having fun with our friends, the exact thing Blizzard is trying to bring more of into the game.
Quote from "emilemil1" »
Most people are ok with not having respec at all right? It didn't exist in D2 so why would we require it now? If the system turns out bad they can always skip the feature altogether. I think that would be the best solution if the purpose is to teach people about not making mistakes. But if they want to appeal to the WoW crowd and the younger people (which usually makes more mistakes) they should make a respec.
I think you are missing the point Emilemil1... You are saying that the WoW crowd and the younger people are going to be the only ones who make mistakes? That seems fairly biased in my opinion, and pretty small minded of a thing to say. The respec option, limited to a certain type of play style, would appeal to NOT ONLY the WoW crowd and the younger people that you speak of, but the casual gamer who just wants to bash monsters with their friends... Is that too much to ask? There is no need to ruin a challenging game for other people in Ladder and Hardcore modes, but for all of our sakes, please be a little more leniant on things for people who are just playing this game for kicks, as opposed to people such as yourself who are obviously trying to play this game competitively...
Sure, there MUST be rules and restrictions to make competitive gaming harder. Think of it in terms of a sports game as opposed to a video game. When you play a simple game of football with your friends, are you going to be required to play with all of the technicalities? By no means would that be the case, you can play your backyard football however you like. While it is different for a video game, there still needs to be a differentiating factor between people who are trying to play for the sheer fun of the game, and people who are having fun playing the game competitively. The only way we can achieve that is through a more open minded system of respecs with obvious restrictions. Having a single/softcore mode respec system would also allow those players who may not be AS skilled at this game as other to learn more about it easier, thus if a casual gamer were to decide to roll a character on a harder mode (such as ladder or hardcore), they would have a much better idea of what works best for them when going into a mode that would not allow for respecs, thus eliminating the absolute NEED for you to reroll 50 times just to know what works good for you. By all means changing your Ladder or Hardcore spec later on would still be unnacceptable, but going into that mode with a better basis of knowledge would help a few people out. Besides, do you mean to tell me that as soon as Diablo 3 hits shelves you are going to know exactly what build works best for you? I think very few people who played Diablo 2 would agree that their first character made it to the end of the game...
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
I don't think instituting a max level reduction with respecs would be that good of an idea.
However, something like taking away 10 levels per respec off the current character might work. But only at high levels.
I would say level 50 and below-no penalty
50-60-3 leves
60-75 5 levels
75-85 10 levels
85 -90 -15 levels
90 and above -20 levels
Under 50 still allows you to correct errors. It also allows you to fix errors at later levels, but you would have to really want to fix it. Respecing to try a new build or new pvp would really hurt and require you to seriously relevel the hardest part of the leveling based off of D2.
The other thing I wish to point out--Respecing is entirely optional-if you don't want to do it then don't, but giving someone else the option should in no way ruin your gaming experience.
And what would be the point of limiting it to non mulitplayer/ladder-Once ladder has been up a month there are so many lvl 99s that no one even looks anymore anyways. Seriously, I can't imagine the last time I looked at ladder standings.
I can see the reason for not allowing hard core players to respec. It just doesn't fit with the idea of hard core.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Fool! You have just ensured the doom of this world. You cannot even begin to imagine what you've set in motion this day. Go to the Temple of Light, in the eastern ciry of Kurast. There you will find the gate to Hell opened before you. You must find the courage to step through that gate Marius. Take the stone you hold to the Hellforge, where it will be destroyed. Now run! Take the stone and run!"
Mine wasn't a per point basis, but a just total respec for that many levels.
I think it is sensible. End game builds after level 50 would probably require less modification anyone from lower level builds. Also, I can appreciate the concern some would have in PvP wether I engage in it or not.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Fool! You have just ensured the doom of this world. You cannot even begin to imagine what you've set in motion this day. Go to the Temple of Light, in the eastern ciry of Kurast. There you will find the gate to Hell opened before you. You must find the courage to step through that gate Marius. Take the stone you hold to the Hellforge, where it will be destroyed. Now run! Take the stone and run!"
I'd prefer no costs or like monetary costs, time costs... level reductions will make the whole respeccing thing pointless. A respec must leave your character intact and allow you to reach your optimal setup. It's pointless otherwise, you could as well play with a character who used some wrong skills at some point, he won't be most optimal but at least he wouldn't be penalized in levels.
"Money too easy to attain!" - I don't think that's a respec problem, that's an economy issue. In SP it'd probably be easy to attain, so w/e.
Also, please leave Hardcore alone. Hardcore is when you die you need to restart. That's IT. You do not have any advantages nor are you penalized. It doesn't need to be harder than Softcore, never had to be, it's just a permadeath mode. Any additional penalties to Hardcore will make it stupid. Permadeath has nothing to do with character building, respects, or anything at all. Saying that people who use respecs shouldn't be allowed to play Hardcore is retarded. That's like saying you shouldn't use cookie cutter builds. But you can't check that, so they will. Respec is the same thing just simpler and permitting more variety.
D2 had infinite free respecs because you could rush and boost a new character in matter of hours. Rushing was the shittiest mechanic in any game ever, but it allowed D2 to remain so popular because people didn't HAVE to work for months to remake a character. D3 will give you respecs instead of letting you rush, so I say good riddance to rushing, and bring on a supported means of respec that is not tromendously tedious like it was in D2.
/topic
that is actually...genius..
I never really thought of that..BTW, I knew one sorceress that could rush you from act1 norm to act 5 hell in about 2 hours..probably had maphack, but i don't care much for that hack..
Also this sorceress was able to do like 50 baal runs in a very short amount of time..
The point is, that I got to level 80 in about 4 hours, or less.. (but that guy was a beast)..
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
As far as the Witch Doctors of African descent, I don't think Blizzard is trying to shadow that at all. African tribal witch doctors are medicine men, men who use their "witchcraft" and "magics" for the purposes of healing. The D3 Witch Doctor is by no means a healer, he is in fact a wielder of dark arts, the kind of witch doctor one would hear about in movies or horror stories of cannabalistic tribes.
Back on topic, I am fairly certain in my heart that Blizzard is shooting for diversity as far as "races" and how they are used and perceived in Diablo 3. In the Diablo world, many races exist, but their styles of combat greatly vary among them. I think what we tend to be seeing as playable classes are inevitably the most powerful combatants of each "race", the ones who would truly be capable of standing their own to such a powerful entity as Diablo himself.
Currently we have the famed brutal Barbarians of Mt. Arreat, the dark Witch Doctors of tribal Teganze, and the seemilngly powerhungry Wizards of Xiansai (even if they were trained in Caldeum). I think we would be very smart to look toward the map for a better idea of what types of people we have coming for our last two classes. We still don't have a class that truely reigns from the Westmarch end of the map. Our ranger could easily come from that end of the map, or take a more middle eastern role. We also haven't really seen anything from the Eastern Swamp Land, nor have we seen anything from the Skovos Isles as well. Only time will truly tell what the real classes will be, but I think if we were to try to obtain a better understanding of the other types of people who live on Sanctuary, we could get a better idea of what heroes their races would bare in this desperate time of need.
As Dimebog said and Darkmagicc reinforced, respecing practically already happened via rushing and loopholes. If people are just going to find a way to make the game easy, why not just give it to them?
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
Honestly, Dimebog and Darkmagicc make really good points.
Respec, while it wasn't as it will be in Diablo 3, was honestly pretty easy in Diablo 2, especially if you had a friend and worked the loopholes. I never personally did that, and I really don't think we should have to resort to it again just to be able remake your talent tree.
In all brutal honesty, I don't think Blizzard wants to make Diablo 3 as infinitely replayable as Diablo 2 was. You could practically play that game WAY longer than you can even their famed World of Warcraft itself. They don't want to charge us to play Diablo 3, and they surely don't want people dropping World of Warcraft and their subscriptions so they can forever play Diablo 3 without having to pay. For that reason, I highly doubt they even PLAN to make Diablo 3 anywhere near as replayable as Diablo 2, and if that means they will give us respecs to make that happen, it is what they will do.
The reality is, some people played one class in Diablo 2 WAY longer than it would take to get to 80 on WoW and start to get geared out end game. They want to make Diablo 3 far easier to complete once or twice on a single class than it is on WoW. If they didn't, they would lose money, and for all of those who have yet to realise the reality of Blizzard in this day and age, they have tended to sell out a lot more than they have been known to do in the past. For that reason, I don't think you will ever see a Diablo 3 with as much replayability as Diablo 2, as unfortunate for some as that may or may not be. Diablo 3, while it will give you the ability to replay as another class, or even the same class as many times as your heart desires, will have an inevitable end.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
My problem with I'd estimate 97% of the people who posted in this website, or in this thread about respecifications, is that they only think of the FULL BLOWN version of what we are used to!
When people think Respec, they think, I'm level 50, if I respec I can choose 50 skills starting from scratch..
There are many other ways to look at it. Respeccing could be ultimately the most expensive, and hardest thing to earn in the game. If after playing for 1 day straight you get maybe 10,000 gold, respeccing ONE skill (meaning removing a skill point from one skill, and placing it elsewhere) IT COULD COST 1,000,000, 000 GOLD.
You might say it is too much. This way the ability to respec will not be taken likely. I was bored of reading the comments here, they all say that you could build a cookie-cutter build, and then switch to your choice..
By making a respec expensive (when I say expensive I literally mean, like 1,000,000,000 gold) it is not only a HUGE money sink, but it shows us we have the ABILITY to respec.
We can't respec everything, and change our character completely; I don't really agree with this..
BUT, there could be 1 or 2 free respecs (1 skill each) that you obtain by beating, NM, or hell?? For beating normal, you shouldn't get anything.. lol..
I also thought D2 was great because leveling wasn't that difficult (playing the real game). In other mmorpgs, or rpg's you literally spend 2 hours bashing monsters and the skill bar moves - much out of
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I really hope they continue what they are doing, and don't listen to people in this thread [specifically]
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
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Which is.. pay X gold, all talents reset.
What I like about blizz, is that they take mechanics that people know, and set them up differently, or in a way that wasn't used, or just used badly, in a game that doesn't need it..
Every single good RPg maded to be played online have a respec - not putting it in the game is a huge step behind. People nowdays don't like to spend time in a game with a thing they don't enjoy - so do something boring (like level a pvp build or a character you already have played) are out of question. "No pain, no gain" don't apply to games anymore.
Only hardcore freaks who have sticked with D2 even after many other (better) games come out likes this reroll masoquism.
D2 had infinite free respecs because you could rush and boost a new character in matter of hours. Rushing was the shittiest mechanic in any game ever, but it allowed D2 to remain so popular because people didn't HAVE to work for months to remake a character. D3 will give you respecs instead of letting you rush, so I say good riddance to rushing, and bring on a supported means of respec that is not tromendously tedious like it was in D2.
/topic
With no respecing at all in Hardcore (its supposed to be hard, right?)
Or if you wanted a harsh respec mechanic. Every respec your character does, cuts off that characters possible maximum level. Say naturally, 100 is highest, then after 1 respec you can only level to 90 or something
These type of comments don't do anyone any good at all
Giving things like gold and items each respec imo won't work well. It's very easy to attain these through your own higher level characters, friends, or for some people ebay etc..
I agree with a previous post that respecs seem like a bad idea allowing anyone to try every kind of spec in 15 minutes. Therefore a system with a cooldown of time after each respec, be it a week or a month depending on what seems fair by Blizz could be the way to go. This way respecs can be in the game, without being abused and people won't feel too severely penalised when using them, losing exp, gold etc.
on topic: im really excited about respeccing. the low levels of D2 were just a rush to get to act 5 and repeating the same things over and over to try out a new build then if u made 1 misclick ur fucked and have to do it again. with respecs i can try out all the skills and see what i like and even make builds for different situations without needing multiple characters
also i dont see how people could actually complain about respeccing making it too easy to try all the builds. it allows you to find what playstyle is the most fun for you without wasting the time rushing 8 different pallies to level 80
I agree that there is nothing wrong with building a character in a build that isn't quite optimal. However, most people are not going to "have a great time" grinding a new character from scratch after playing through the game several times with other characters. But if you do enjoy this, then the inclusion of a respec does not in any way hinder your ability to do so. It simply caters to people who perhaps don't have as much free time as you, and allows them to play through all the content the game has to offer.
Blizzard is indeed developing a number of different viable builds per chracter, as we can see emerging from the early skill trees we have seen so far. However, I do not understand how this has anything to do with respecs at all - Surely a respec isn't going to change your base skill tree? You will still have the ability to build it any way you want to.
And again - how you build your chracter has nothing to do with the inclusion of respecs, it is actually to do with the choices the players make. I'm certainly excited about trying out different builds at different stages of the game, and I will definately try to do so if I have time. Wouldn't you too? What if Blizzard made it take so long to build a character with these builds that we essentially didn't have time to try them?
I fail to see how the game could be more successful without it. Respecs are all about adding choice to the game, whereas a system without it takes away your choice. With respecs you still have the choice to do everything the D2 way if that's really what you prefer.
I certainly haven't heard any objective reasoning from anywhere that makes much sense as to why it would be a good idea - people are mostly stuck on the "D2 made me work hard to respec, and I liked feeling like I was doing lots of work in order enjoy the full content in the game".
Someone earlier hit the nail on the head: I think people need to ask whether a game (read:entertainment) is meant to feel like "hard work", or whether it should instead be enjoyable. (hint:level grinds, although enjoyable for a little while, will always inevitably become a frustrating and tiresome element of the game)
If you enjoy hard work so much, get a fkn job.
Agree entirely. If they made a respec cost you about as much time as the whole rushing then I don't see how anyone could argue it could be a bad thing - it simply means you aren't exploiting a loophole in the game progression design to get there.
I dunno about Morden but I was making a genuine suggestion not trying to be a smartass.
especially restricting it to non-ladder only or making only the last skill point respeccable.
i like Genesis's idea from this thread:
i really like that one (might be favorite), so that if you want a leveling/racing character or a pvp one you can't respec and remain competitive.
and from the other thread i also like emilemil1's idea (the top one not the pve/pvp one), and someone else's idea (that i can't find now to credit) that using a respec left a permanent mark on the character.. so that not using one would make the character special. (and conversely, using one would taint a character :P)
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
But respecing would be nice ( if by this you mean you can clear your skills and get a new set of any combination ) Would this be anything like the Talent spec from WoW? Well.. the part that lets you clear it and re-enter your talent points.
I would like the Synergy effect to be kept, but the skill req to go away.
Now lets get back to the real subject here. Since respecs at this point WILL be an addition to Diablo 3, let us find a way to have respecs without taking all the fun out of the game, something some people around here unfortunately can't be open minded enough to fathom. None of us want to rain on anyone else's fun, and if people have fun rolling a ton of characters, let it be, but don't require it for everybody. How is that fair to the gaming community as a whole? Diablo 2 mainly became all about "hardcore" gamers, and it tended to ruin the fun for many of us and our friends...
Edit: Missed a whole page of topic before I reposted XD. That is no good.
Personally, after reading Ivaron's post, I tend to lean toward a softcore/nonladder only method. Respecing in Ladder and Hardcore would surely not be fair to the more deciated hardcore gamers. By allowing single player and softcore mode players to respec, it will give the casual gamer just what he needs to have fun. Casual gamers aren't by any means trying to be THE BEST, we just want to have fun and know we can complete the FULL game (including Hell mode), with what we have, and know that we don't have to create multiple characters just because we goofed up on a few talents that would be better spent elsewhere. I personally even think an experience penalty could be very viable when mixed with this single/softcore only respecs method. It would make the casual game a little more of a challenge, but not so big of a challenge that it would prohibit us from having fun with our friends, the exact thing Blizzard is trying to bring more of into the game.
I think you are missing the point Emilemil1... You are saying that the WoW crowd and the younger people are going to be the only ones who make mistakes? That seems fairly biased in my opinion, and pretty small minded of a thing to say. The respec option, limited to a certain type of play style, would appeal to NOT ONLY the WoW crowd and the younger people that you speak of, but the casual gamer who just wants to bash monsters with their friends... Is that too much to ask? There is no need to ruin a challenging game for other people in Ladder and Hardcore modes, but for all of our sakes, please be a little more leniant on things for people who are just playing this game for kicks, as opposed to people such as yourself who are obviously trying to play this game competitively...
Sure, there MUST be rules and restrictions to make competitive gaming harder. Think of it in terms of a sports game as opposed to a video game. When you play a simple game of football with your friends, are you going to be required to play with all of the technicalities? By no means would that be the case, you can play your backyard football however you like. While it is different for a video game, there still needs to be a differentiating factor between people who are trying to play for the sheer fun of the game, and people who are having fun playing the game competitively. The only way we can achieve that is through a more open minded system of respecs with obvious restrictions. Having a single/softcore mode respec system would also allow those players who may not be AS skilled at this game as other to learn more about it easier, thus if a casual gamer were to decide to roll a character on a harder mode (such as ladder or hardcore), they would have a much better idea of what works best for them when going into a mode that would not allow for respecs, thus eliminating the absolute NEED for you to reroll 50 times just to know what works good for you. By all means changing your Ladder or Hardcore spec later on would still be unnacceptable, but going into that mode with a better basis of knowledge would help a few people out. Besides, do you mean to tell me that as soon as Diablo 3 hits shelves you are going to know exactly what build works best for you? I think very few people who played Diablo 2 would agree that their first character made it to the end of the game...
However, something like taking away 10 levels per respec off the current character might work. But only at high levels.
I would say level 50 and below-no penalty
50-60-3 leves
60-75 5 levels
75-85 10 levels
85 -90 -15 levels
90 and above -20 levels
Under 50 still allows you to correct errors. It also allows you to fix errors at later levels, but you would have to really want to fix it. Respecing to try a new build or new pvp would really hurt and require you to seriously relevel the hardest part of the leveling based off of D2.
The other thing I wish to point out--Respecing is entirely optional-if you don't want to do it then don't, but giving someone else the option should in no way ruin your gaming experience.
And what would be the point of limiting it to non mulitplayer/ladder-Once ladder has been up a month there are so many lvl 99s that no one even looks anymore anyways. Seriously, I can't imagine the last time I looked at ladder standings.
I can see the reason for not allowing hard core players to respec. It just doesn't fit with the idea of hard core.
I think it is sensible. End game builds after level 50 would probably require less modification anyone from lower level builds. Also, I can appreciate the concern some would have in PvP wether I engage in it or not.
"Money too easy to attain!" - I don't think that's a respec problem, that's an economy issue. In SP it'd probably be easy to attain, so w/e.
Also, please leave Hardcore alone. Hardcore is when you die you need to restart. That's IT. You do not have any advantages nor are you penalized. It doesn't need to be harder than Softcore, never had to be, it's just a permadeath mode. Any additional penalties to Hardcore will make it stupid. Permadeath has nothing to do with character building, respects, or anything at all. Saying that people who use respecs shouldn't be allowed to play Hardcore is retarded. That's like saying you shouldn't use cookie cutter builds. But you can't check that, so they will. Respec is the same thing just simpler and permitting more variety.
that is actually...genius..
I never really thought of that..BTW, I knew one sorceress that could rush you from act1 norm to act 5 hell in about 2 hours..probably had maphack, but i don't care much for that hack..
Also this sorceress was able to do like 50 baal runs in a very short amount of time..
The point is, that I got to level 80 in about 4 hours, or less.. (but that guy was a beast)..
Back on topic, I am fairly certain in my heart that Blizzard is shooting for diversity as far as "races" and how they are used and perceived in Diablo 3. In the Diablo world, many races exist, but their styles of combat greatly vary among them. I think what we tend to be seeing as playable classes are inevitably the most powerful combatants of each "race", the ones who would truly be capable of standing their own to such a powerful entity as Diablo himself.
Currently we have the famed brutal Barbarians of Mt. Arreat, the dark Witch Doctors of tribal Teganze, and the seemilngly powerhungry Wizards of Xiansai (even if they were trained in Caldeum). I think we would be very smart to look toward the map for a better idea of what types of people we have coming for our last two classes. We still don't have a class that truely reigns from the Westmarch end of the map. Our ranger could easily come from that end of the map, or take a more middle eastern role. We also haven't really seen anything from the Eastern Swamp Land, nor have we seen anything from the Skovos Isles as well. Only time will truly tell what the real classes will be, but I think if we were to try to obtain a better understanding of the other types of people who live on Sanctuary, we could get a better idea of what heroes their races would bare in this desperate time of need.
As Dimebog said and Darkmagicc reinforced, respecing practically already happened via rushing and loopholes. If people are just going to find a way to make the game easy, why not just give it to them?
Respec, while it wasn't as it will be in Diablo 3, was honestly pretty easy in Diablo 2, especially if you had a friend and worked the loopholes. I never personally did that, and I really don't think we should have to resort to it again just to be able remake your talent tree.
In all brutal honesty, I don't think Blizzard wants to make Diablo 3 as infinitely replayable as Diablo 2 was. You could practically play that game WAY longer than you can even their famed World of Warcraft itself. They don't want to charge us to play Diablo 3, and they surely don't want people dropping World of Warcraft and their subscriptions so they can forever play Diablo 3 without having to pay. For that reason, I highly doubt they even PLAN to make Diablo 3 anywhere near as replayable as Diablo 2, and if that means they will give us respecs to make that happen, it is what they will do.
The reality is, some people played one class in Diablo 2 WAY longer than it would take to get to 80 on WoW and start to get geared out end game. They want to make Diablo 3 far easier to complete once or twice on a single class than it is on WoW. If they didn't, they would lose money, and for all of those who have yet to realise the reality of Blizzard in this day and age, they have tended to sell out a lot more than they have been known to do in the past. For that reason, I don't think you will ever see a Diablo 3 with as much replayability as Diablo 2, as unfortunate for some as that may or may not be. Diablo 3, while it will give you the ability to replay as another class, or even the same class as many times as your heart desires, will have an inevitable end.
When people think Respec, they think, I'm level 50, if I respec I can choose 50 skills starting from scratch..
There are many other ways to look at it. Respeccing could be ultimately the most expensive, and hardest thing to earn in the game. If after playing for 1 day straight you get maybe 10,000 gold, respeccing ONE skill (meaning removing a skill point from one skill, and placing it elsewhere) IT COULD COST 1,000,000, 000 GOLD.
You might say it is too much. This way the ability to respec will not be taken likely. I was bored of reading the comments here, they all say that you could build a cookie-cutter build, and then switch to your choice..
By making a respec expensive (when I say expensive I literally mean, like 1,000,000,000 gold) it is not only a HUGE money sink, but it shows us we have the ABILITY to respec.
We can't respec everything, and change our character completely; I don't really agree with this..
BUT, there could be 1 or 2 free respecs (1 skill each) that you obtain by beating, NM, or hell?? For beating normal, you shouldn't get anything.. lol..
I also thought D2 was great because leveling wasn't that difficult (playing the real game). In other mmorpgs, or rpg's you literally spend 2 hours bashing monsters and the skill bar moves - much out of
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I really hope they continue what they are doing, and don't listen to people in this thread [specifically]