i actually think an auction house would be a great way to fix the problems of currency. that or have vendors sell the good items at extreme high prices, with scarce gold
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(this build was before D3 launched... looking back on it now - i had no idea what i was doing)
People who still believe that useful items will be purchased with gold, are purely delusional. Just thought I'd point that out.
They should make your items suffer a durability loss as a death penalty and repairs should be incredibly expensive (scaling with gear quality). If you want to die a few times a day, then you better find time to grind gold that day. That way you will be glad and willing to trade an item for a pile of gold to someone. See how simple it can be? Just cut down the incomes and invent unavoidable gold sinks (or seemingly avoidable if you are skilled and persistent).
First sentence is beautiful, the next section is straight outta WoW. So I would hate that incredibly in D3, it needs to be unique, and it will.
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Dream as if you'll live forever, and live as if you'll die today. "James Dean"
Avoiding good ideas just because they come from WoW is stupid and irrational.
Agreed. Why people are so anti-wow is beyond me. Just because we suddendly have an AH like wow to make trading easier for us everyone starts freaking out and claiming they wont buy the game because its identical to wow lol.
The entire problem with economics in a game like Diablo is that there isn't a required cash sink, at least not one that's very large. In Diablo 2, the biggest cash sink were potions. Not exactly the biggest sink out there, especially because characters were largely self dependent.
A major issue with WoW is that there are very, very few cash sinks in the game. You've got a mount at 40, and then what? Epic mounts? None of these are required or long term solutions. They're short term cash sinks that are optional.
Games like the original EQ had it decently right. They created required items, like food and water, spells you had to buy, items you had to buy in order to cast some spells... just about everything that was essential to playing the game cost gold.
I see many problems with a Diablo 3 economy.
There is no way to level the playing field. Without required cash sinks (food/water, repairs, housing, etc), there's no way to remove gold from the world. This was the reason why trading in D2 was based on items and not gold. Gold was inflated to the point of redundancy. There was no need to have gold for anything other than repairs (lol, how inexpensive) and potions (lol again).
In order to make gold have an actual value, they need required gold sinks. They need some solid ways to take money out of the world, otherwise people will just go back to trading items for items.
The thing is, though, that there isn't a real way to do this in Diablo. There is no required housing, no food to buy, nadda. The only real way to do it would be to make repairs a required and expensive part of playing. The problem with that is that it's boring and luck dependent. If they make it too taxing on a player, no gold will reliably be made (not good). If they make it too lenient on a player, gold will inflate (not good).
And the summation of all Diablo trading is that it's dependent on luck. Heavily. Because of this there is no 'good' way to ensure that gold retains worth. The only way to stabilize an economy in D3 would be to lower the amount of random in the game... which just makes it duller than a bag of salt.
People who still believe that useful items will be purchased with gold, are purely delusional. Just thought I'd point that out.
They should make your items suffer a durability loss as a death penalty and repairs should be incredibly expensive (scaling with gear quality). If you want to die a few times a day, then you better find time to grind gold that day. That way you will be glad and willing to trade an item for a pile of gold to someone. See how simple it can be? Just cut down the incomes and invent unavoidable gold sinks (or seemingly avoidable if you are skilled and persistent).
This just makes gold something annoying to have to "deal" with, in the same vein as needing gold to revive your merc (except worse, IMO). Give us something to DO with gold, not unavoidable "maintenance". Although I understand where you're coming from, this tied with reduced gold drops would indeed make it more valuable.
Personally, I would gladly pay assloads of gold just to customize my armor a certain color.
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Walk tall, kick ass, learn to speak Arabic, love music and never forget you come from a long line of truth seekers, lovers and warriors.
-Hunter S. Thompson
Oh man...the number of times I wished I could have used gold to add sockets in D2....I mean honestly, how hard can it be? I'm looking at you, Charsi...
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Walk tall, kick ass, learn to speak Arabic, love music and never forget you come from a long line of truth seekers, lovers and warriors.
-Hunter S. Thompson
And isnt it basically the same as gold loss directly on death? Plus a "toll to get resurrected" sounds more logical to me.
Yes, but then if you don't have enough money to repair, you can work something out before your items are completely useless. If you do not have enough money to pay for a resurrection toll? People would just send all their money to their alts to avoid having to pay the toll if it was made to deduce a percentage of your gold, so that's out of the question. I hope you see how this system is better.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
IMO, gold should be used largely for item and unique character customizations. Thats the coolest way of gold usage so far in my opinion.
That's a nice thought. However, things like changing the colour of your armour are worth differently to different people. Some people may not give a shit (like me), and other may value it greatly. The concept of 'universal value' is defeated right there. Unless you have to spend gold, then it's not really worth as items that trade from other people, and they are something you have to have.
Making gold important means making it's utility as important as the items are to the game. Customizing your gear appearance is not quite as 'important'.
Personally I would rather them keep the old system but making gold slightly more useful like restating or skilling ect...
But still keep how people would trade a nice item for another
in classic it was "Anything is worth Anything" to the right person, so any one who played classic would know that jsp was a main source of trading and the ingame would usually be spent pvping or csing
And dont you think socketing items for gold would be awesome?
That would work perfectly well. But only if limited to certain gear slots. For example, only head, chest and weapon. I believe the price should be really steep as well.
EDIT: Come to think of it, it shouldn't even be limited to certain gear slots. They could go crazy with gear customization.
God it makes me sick when people imply so arrogantly that the game that requires an IQ of 70+ should be 'noob unfriendly'. If you think that you were something special in a game like that, than you just might be that 'special' actually. Give me a fucking break already and drop that argument from whatever points you actually try to make.
I never said it should be noob unfriendly. Italofoca used Diablo 2's supposed "noob unfriendliness" as an argument against it; I simply replied that noob friendliness is an irrelevant quality and making judgements about a game based on that quality is foolish.
Most players will remain noobs, perpetually, throughout the time they play even slightly complicated games. Those players are irrelevant and I didn't even include them in my analysis. As for the real players, well they won't be noobs for very long, so how the steep the learning curve is means very little to them.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Avoiding good ideas just because they come from WoW is stupid and irrational.
I dont hate it because of WoW but I think the fact that dieing just costs you gold is idiotic......... You should lose somtheing of real value such as experince just as in D2. Dont ever infer me to be stupid or irrational.....
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Dream as if you'll live forever, and live as if you'll die today. "James Dean"
I dont hate it because of WoW but I think the fact that dieing just costs you gold is idiotic......... You should lose somtheing of real value such as experince just as in D2. Dont ever infer me to be stupid or irrational.....
Oh but I will. We are not discussing if experience should be a currency here. If they make you loose gold by dying, then you GIVE IT value. In D2 of course gold didn't have value because it wasn't necessary to keep you going.
And you shouldn't loose experience upon death and devs already agree with that so you are wrong.
The idea is not idiotic. It is brilliant. You just fail to see to it because your mind operates within the confines of D2 and you can't break out of it.
Honestly, I actually liked the fact that random loot and runes were utilized as the currency in Diablo 2. And I really wouldnt mind seeing it in Diablo 3. Also, I wouldnt say that gold was worthless in diablo 2. I remember getting repair bills that were through the roof and if you didnt have the repair runes, you were pretty much screwed into scavenging for gold...I think were going to be seeing some pretty drastic changes in the currency/trading system...
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. -Epicurus-Athiests- Winning since 33 A.D
If the death toll didnt take so much gold after each death, then players would be encouraged to collect it more. If I spent 50 hours collecting 234923847823974932 amount of gold and having it taxed away through dying, then I dont think I'd even bother in the future.
If the death toll didnt take so much gold after each death, then players would be encouraged to collect it more. If I spent 50 hours collecting 234923847823974932 amount of gold and having it taxed away through dying, then I dont think I'd even bother in the future.
It's either easy and gold is worthless or it's not easy and gold is not worthless. You can't have both. You can fantasize though.
Quote from "DGK." »
If we were to have an auction house that would make money worth alot more
Auction house would become flooded with millions of items because everyone would want to cash in on their discarded socks as long as they are not soulbound. Remember that in WoW, with a few exceptions, the auction house is not used to market gear. At least not anything a serious player would want to wear. Also, the demand for items is always stable in WoW because you can't endlessly resell them and at the same time constantly add more items to the economy. A wonderful little concept called soulbinding is what made auction houses possible in WoW. It's something that won't happen in D3, so you can stop dreaming about things like the auction house.
There is an interview with Wilson. And he says that you shouldn't buy the most powerful gear with gold, that the most powerful will be found from drops. Now, as to say that gold won't have any other uses, not sure. Maybe better mercenary systems and better gambling systems.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Einstein.
I personally found D2's economy to be one of the shittiest of any game I played. Anyone who thinks that the item economy didn't just come down a grindfest like a gold economy is fooling themselves. How did you get the items to trade? You got magic find items (by grinding), and then you did hundreds of magic find runs until you found some good stuff to start trading with. You pretty much have to perpetually do magic find runs in order to trade in D2, and it was a waste of time. Not saying grinding for gold is far superior, but I think an economy based on chance is ridiculous. At least with gold, it's a fair playing field because everyone can get it just as easily as the next guy. I found it extremely obnoxious that I had to get gear to trade to get gear. What the hell kind of system is that?
I think there needs to be both optional and required gold sinks to make gold useful. More importantly, however, I am totally for an auction house. I could care less that it was in WoW, and I think anyone who bitches about such an idea because it was in another game is being childish. I think it is a great system. The only way for an auction house to work, obviously, is A.There are required gold sinks or B. You can't trade item for item and can ONLY get items with gold on the auction house. I'm not entirely convinced that B isn't such a bad choice. In fact, why not go for C.All of the above. Give some gold sinks like skill resets, heavy repairs, etc., and make it so you can only trade for items with gold.
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"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will." -Thomas Carlyle
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First sentence is beautiful, the next section is straight outta WoW. So I would hate that incredibly in D3, it needs to be unique, and it will.
Agreed. Why people are so anti-wow is beyond me. Just because we suddendly have an AH like wow to make trading easier for us everyone starts freaking out and claiming they wont buy the game because its identical to wow lol.
I agree entirely.
_________________________________
The entire problem with economics in a game like Diablo is that there isn't a required cash sink, at least not one that's very large. In Diablo 2, the biggest cash sink were potions. Not exactly the biggest sink out there, especially because characters were largely self dependent.
A major issue with WoW is that there are very, very few cash sinks in the game. You've got a mount at 40, and then what? Epic mounts? None of these are required or long term solutions. They're short term cash sinks that are optional.
Games like the original EQ had it decently right. They created required items, like food and water, spells you had to buy, items you had to buy in order to cast some spells... just about everything that was essential to playing the game cost gold.
I see many problems with a Diablo 3 economy.
There is no way to level the playing field. Without required cash sinks (food/water, repairs, housing, etc), there's no way to remove gold from the world. This was the reason why trading in D2 was based on items and not gold. Gold was inflated to the point of redundancy. There was no need to have gold for anything other than repairs (lol, how inexpensive) and potions (lol again).
In order to make gold have an actual value, they need required gold sinks. They need some solid ways to take money out of the world, otherwise people will just go back to trading items for items.
The thing is, though, that there isn't a real way to do this in Diablo. There is no required housing, no food to buy, nadda. The only real way to do it would be to make repairs a required and expensive part of playing. The problem with that is that it's boring and luck dependent. If they make it too taxing on a player, no gold will reliably be made (not good). If they make it too lenient on a player, gold will inflate (not good).
And the summation of all Diablo trading is that it's dependent on luck. Heavily. Because of this there is no 'good' way to ensure that gold retains worth. The only way to stabilize an economy in D3 would be to lower the amount of random in the game... which just makes it duller than a bag of salt.
This just makes gold something annoying to have to "deal" with, in the same vein as needing gold to revive your merc (except worse, IMO). Give us something to DO with gold, not unavoidable "maintenance". Although I understand where you're coming from, this tied with reduced gold drops would indeed make it more valuable.
Personally, I would gladly pay assloads of gold just to customize my armor a certain color.
-Hunter S. Thompson
TED . LEAP . Woot . MF
-Hunter S. Thompson
TED . LEAP . Woot . MF
That's a nice thought. However, things like changing the colour of your armour are worth differently to different people. Some people may not give a shit (like me), and other may value it greatly. The concept of 'universal value' is defeated right there. Unless you have to spend gold, then it's not really worth as items that trade from other people, and they are something you have to have.
Making gold important means making it's utility as important as the items are to the game. Customizing your gear appearance is not quite as 'important'.
But still keep how people would trade a nice item for another
in classic it was "Anything is worth Anything" to the right person, so any one who played classic would know that jsp was a main source of trading and the ingame would usually be spent pvping or csing
EDIT: Come to think of it, it shouldn't even be limited to certain gear slots. They could go crazy with gear customization.
I never said it should be noob unfriendly. Italofoca used Diablo 2's supposed "noob unfriendliness" as an argument against it; I simply replied that noob friendliness is an irrelevant quality and making judgements about a game based on that quality is foolish.
Most players will remain noobs, perpetually, throughout the time they play even slightly complicated games. Those players are irrelevant and I didn't even include them in my analysis. As for the real players, well they won't be noobs for very long, so how the steep the learning curve is means very little to them.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
I dont hate it because of WoW but I think the fact that dieing just costs you gold is idiotic......... You should lose somtheing of real value such as experince just as in D2. Dont ever infer me to be stupid or irrational.....
And you shouldn't loose experience upon death and devs already agree with that so you are wrong.
The idea is not idiotic. It is brilliant. You just fail to see to it because your mind operates within the confines of D2 and you can't break out of it.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God. -Epicurus-Athiests- Winning since 33 A.D
you need supply and demand for that which d2jsp creates and puts it all into one currency
If we were to have an auction house that would make money worth alot more
Auction house would become flooded with millions of items because everyone would want to cash in on their discarded socks as long as they are not soulbound. Remember that in WoW, with a few exceptions, the auction house is not used to market gear. At least not anything a serious player would want to wear. Also, the demand for items is always stable in WoW because you can't endlessly resell them and at the same time constantly add more items to the economy. A wonderful little concept called soulbinding is what made auction houses possible in WoW. It's something that won't happen in D3, so you can stop dreaming about things like the auction house.
It isn't sellable, tradable, or usable by anyone but the single-player who found it. Which is pretty much the opposite of multi-player.
Grouped Single Player.
And doing anything with other players is going to be fairly pointless in Grouped Single Player games.
I think there needs to be both optional and required gold sinks to make gold useful. More importantly, however, I am totally for an auction house. I could care less that it was in WoW, and I think anyone who bitches about such an idea because it was in another game is being childish. I think it is a great system. The only way for an auction house to work, obviously, is A. There are required gold sinks or B. You can't trade item for item and can ONLY get items with gold on the auction house. I'm not entirely convinced that B isn't such a bad choice. In fact, why not go for C. All of the above. Give some gold sinks like skill resets, heavy repairs, etc., and make it so you can only trade for items with gold.
"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will."
-Thomas Carlyle