It was an utter shame to see these items goto crap when Lord of Destruction came out. These were by far one of the main reasons for me to go magic finding, and actually have FUN while doing it for hours, days, and weeks on end. I am not exactly sure what changed technically from classic yellows to expansion yellows but whatever it was, was not a good change. I think too many prefixes and suffixes got added into the mix, some worthless prefixes and suffixes got added, some combinations of prefixes and suffixes that should not be allowed were allowed, or just all of the above.
The bottom line is, when LOD came out, yellow/rare items ceased to be of any real value, and it was a real shame because they were the most unique items in the game, probably of any game! These are the items that made people envious over another character. When you would see a Barbarian with AN AWESOME-UNIQUE-ONE-OF-A-KIND RARE/YELLOW executioner sword/lance, or you would see an awesome gothic bow, or a DUAL LEECH RING, and no one else in the world had it! And this one person that had it wouldn't trade it for all the SOJS in the world...It was inspiring! and truly TREASURE! It made you green with jealousy so you would immediately go out magic finding for hours where the person said it dropped HOPING, HOPING, waiting, and waiting with anticipation that it or something like it would drop, and most of the time it wouldn't or maybe you would end up finding something equally awesome or for another class. These Diablo 2 Classic rares were unique, one of a kind, and oh so fun to go hunting for.
When Lord of Destruction came out pretty much EVERY new yellow that dropped was crap and all the craze was now about uniques (Gold colored) that every single person could have and look the same in, set items, uber gemmed/runed items etc. Don't get me wrong, all those items are fun too, but nothing beat that feeling of having an AWESOME RARE that was useful and people envied you for and spent their own time trying to find its equal or better.
People like having the thought in their head that when they go out to magic find they could possibly get lucky and find an item that nobody in the whole world has, and it's unique and their the only person with an item exactly like it and that it is extremely useful to some build, be it a cookie cutter build or a crazy build.
It's not much fun to go magic finding if you already know that whatever drops someone or thousands already have it, and you are going to look almost the exact same as them once you min/max your build. This is kind of what killed the fun in magic finding for me, knowing that all the rares I found would be crap and the stuff that was useful, well..hundreds of thousands of people also had access too and already had.
Bring back the old Diablo 2 Classic rare in Diablo 3. Magic finding and overall game play is so much more fun when you know you can get lucky and find the right amount of stats/modifiers on an item to make people jealous and give them motivation and hope to go out and find their own unique treasure to compete with yours."
I couldn't agree more. I want to see rares become an ultimate end game. For example, lets say your average rare is worse than the average unique, but you could have some rares eventually topple the uniques from GG items.
Take a look at his whole thread its a good read even if I didn't care much about music and character voices.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The gaming public now has focus on Diablo again, and with it comes the modern-age of trolling and jackassery."
The only slots where rares can't compete are Body Armour and Shield, for every other slot rares can be the best in the game, if they spawn with the correct mods of course.
I disagree.
Yes, for certain classes a rare can be used for certain spots such as a trapsin using a +2skill +3ls claw, but a barbarian wouldn't do that. Neither would a paladin or an amazon. In most cases its doubtful that a rare will be your item.
In very specific cases yes, rares are used and even magic such as the +skill, fcr, 2os tiaras.
I want it like classic D2 where you could find a range of rares tha were better, not just the top .01% of rares that need every mod just so.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The gaming public now has focus on Diablo again, and with it comes the modern-age of trolling and jackassery."
Alright, well yes, the SoJ was superior for casters, but how was it again better for a barbarian for example than a dual leech, resist, and hp ring?
Chancies? Cmon, only good for mf. True, the best for mf, but c'mon, IAS/knock +other for amazon gloves? Can't be topped.
Tarnhelm, also the best for mf, but even for a sorc there was +skills and mods that topped it. For melee, there was much better.
Way, WAY back in the day I had a lance barb, now what unique weapon could top a 400+ rare lance? Of course, he sucked as soon as LoD came out... mostly because of atack speed, but I couldn't handle the beginning of A5.
Now adays, my shako, occy, tal armor, etc etc is all joke armor almost when compared to other items. I think most agree that runewords should be done away with or at least knocked down to the power of uniques/rares.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The gaming public now has focus on Diablo again, and with it comes the modern-age of trolling and jackassery."
As for "I want it like classic", you mean where uniques are OP compared to most rares, just like LoD...
Tarnhelm
Sojs
Magefist
Frostburn
Goldskin
The Ward
Rattlecage
Twitchthroe
Venomward
Iceblink
Rockfleece
Silks of the Victor
Wall of the Eyeless
Chance Guards
Bloodfist
Goldwrap
Bladebuckle
Goblin Toe
Thats without going into specific Uniques such as Raven Claw for an enchantress etc...
Please, stop being ignorant.
BS .. most of the items in that list is totally useless in hell and easily replacable by Rares.
Tarnhelm: Well its ok if you MF and want +1 skill, perhaps best used by paladin that can easily get resists up, but if they can't, they better stick to rares that give resits and life.
SOJS: not overpowered, you know these things are hard to find, none of my ladder characters have ever had these and I've been very satisfied with my rare fcr rings with mana life str and resists(many times even then my resists haven been totally full) Even when you get these, one of them is easily enough. For other ring I would take rare with above stats.
Magefists: well these are nice if you can't get FCR up any other way. These has been the sorc item since the beginning of the game. These are also HOT in LOD, other options there are pretty much Frosts or trang oul
Frostburns: Well if you have enough FCR you can use these for more mana, but you can also use some nice rares with MF and resists if you want.
Goldskin: I don't know what char would use this.. needs way too much strenght for classic. Only if your other gear totally lacks resits I would use this. Any rare with +life +str and resists is better than this.
The Ward: Good untill you get better Rare. Paladins seek for 30/20 +2 prismatic or high resists ones.. sorcs look for same but without the +2.
Rattlecage: Mm OP? Another crappy unique armor.. it has crushing blow which is ruined by Flee.. goblin toes and this is overkill for pretty much every char. Only amazons might think about using this but since bowazons suck quite bad after 1.10 and I haven't seen any of them since 1.10 came it doesnt really matter.
Twitchtroe: this used to be the armor for bowazons, but since they don't really exist in classic its not so popular anymore. It's ok for sorcs for its stats and block but if they get block fixed with shield they can go for resist, life, str armor.
Venomward: op? how? offers nothing but poison res.. maybe in pvp against poison nec which are a rare sight I guess.
Iceblink: now this used to be really good for softcore barbs BEFORE LOD. After lod they changed how freeze works so it doesn't work for every hit and cold immunes. Not so popular anymore, dont offer any life or good def.
Rockfleece: how is this piece of crap OP? 10% damage reduce.. isn't that great when you get hit many % more with the low def it offers.
Silks: seen it only on bo barbs and summon necros.. other classes shouldn't bother.. high str req too for casters and palas. Only +1 skills for them and for barbs 5% ml which a baba can get from jewlery.
Wall of the Eyeless: Most people don't use this anymore, it used to be popular BEFORE LOD. You used it to get fastest possible cast back then. People use rare 30/20 resist shields nowadays.
Chance Guards; No other use than MF, but if you MF something that requires more than just +MF you might wanna use rare gloves with leech, resists, str/dex and MF
Bloodfist: Nice twink item... not for hell.
Goldwrap: Only good for MF.. and amazons BEFORE LOD used to have this for IAS. I guess they use more that death set combo nowadays, but since bowazons are really rare I just say this is for MF.
Bladebuckle: Nice in Nightmare.. rares are better in hell.
Goblin Toe: These are nice for Barb.. but before 1.10 even these weren't needed. In 1.10 they fucked up the monsters and barb can't do much without these. Sucky gameplay change not good item.
Raven Claw for enchantress? Are u serious.. in classic hell A4 u don't do much with fire damage. Haven't seen any enchantress in classic that does anything else but boost low levels or their barb or whatever.
A Melee character in Classic? Using anything but Twitch, Rockfleece, Rattlecage, Iceblink or maybe Goldskin? WHY?! When those armours are clearly superior.
This tells it all, you probably haven't ever even played Classic. Those items are frikin joke for melee class in hell. What we look for is high def rare ornate with good stats.
ANYWAYS the Original post is about how LOD changed the Rares. Yes they changed them alot, even for todays Classic. All the prefix and sufix levels got pretty much changed.. some stats were gone from some items like dexterity from belt, strenght from boots, 40+ resists. Game mechanics were changed.. Also many of the normal uniques that you still find in Classic too changed when LOD came. They boosted them quite a lot. Because of that and game mechanic changes, some of them became more popular than they were before. Also the fact that rares kinda sucks nowadays unless you get really lucky.
In LOD you find rares but 95% of them are filled with chance to cast shit when hit etc..
I was really amazed to find nice rare weapon in this ladder 349%ed 40ias colossus sword.. wow this is nice but still it should be ethereal to be even close to usefull in hell. I can prolly kill some carvers with this in act1 hell.
Even the rare finds in Classic has been changed a lot. You find shitloads of crap items and it is really rare to get a good one these days. Sometimes you find nice stats for a weapon but in a firkin dirk from hell act4. My barb uses 236 dmg martel which is ok but I'd like something closer to 280. I've found about 4 martels which none of them has been over 150 damage.. kinda depressing. Also finding same item types starts to get boring.. I think I've found 6 unique short battle bows from hell and 5 venom wards etc. I want some rares with good mods in a good item type.
So yes I agree with the orginal post. Rares should be the best items. And yes I know they are now, but if you find 1 good rare in 5 years you can't really say that. So the prefix/affix system and the item drop mechanisms should be more to the way of pre-LOD. I suppose they changed this because the introduced exceptional and elite unique items.
In my post I'm clearly talking about the easy to obtain gear on both Classic and LoD, which happens to be uniques, not the uber high end stuff, which if duping wasn't prevalent, would be rares for LoD as well.
As for your ridiculous assumption that I've never played classic, you DO realise that its easier to MF for sojs in classic than in LoD, and grush people don't you?
Yhea its hard to find the top rares in classic, but easy to find better than uniques. As I stated on almost any item I compared to rares.
LoD rares are better yes.. but a shitloads of harder to get anything usefull, than in classic, even today. Pre-LOD it was even more enjoyable to identify rares since there was a lot better chance to get nice stuff.
One friend had found 25 unique rings so far in this season and 0 sojs.. dunno if thats easy. Besides if you don't MF in the lame "LOD-way" it's even harder. I have found 1 soj and it was in 1.09. Prolly gambled a few before LOD but can't remember how many.
No, its just some retards who probably haven't played the game since LoD came out claiming that its ruined since, ZOMG things changed!
Dime is right.. LOD is the biggest scum that happened to this game. I managed to stand that for about ½ year then I went back to Classic.. which SURPRISE SURPRISE they ruined also. Idiots changed cast system, immunes, leeching, rushing and everything. In 1.09 the most popular char I had was Barb since the changes affected least on barbs in Classic.
So i played quite a while Classic.. 1.09 was ok in LOD but ehe wtf did they think about 1.10.. fucked up the game even more.. thank you. I'm so glad they will bring us totally new game with D3.
Things changed.. in most games, things change to better with expansions.. in blizzard games they tend to get worse. Just look at the shit that Wow is now.
As for your ridiculous assumption that I've never played classic, you DO realise that its easier to MF for sojs in classic than in LoD, and grush people don't you?
Well sorry but such a newbie claim that those unique armors are better than rares.. wtf? Any rare mage plate --> ornate plate with defence,life mod is better than the uniques. And you can get those even easier than uniques.
Just got the feeling that you've only played lod since thats where most people don't care about rares. Sometimes I've joined a game and went to cleared area and the floors are filled with rares.. some of them that could even have potential of being good.
So in short pre-LOD > now and some of the systems in the orginal d2 should be around in D3 at least rather than what it is now.
ps. rushing sucks ass and so does the people that do it.
untwink, unrush, non-mf run, solo exp for the win.
Actually I thought the rune and gems system was pretty cool. Sure there were a lot of cookie cutter chars (Hammerdins anyone), but WoW which does have tons of different things ends up having people get the same gear. I think the biggest problem was you got that godly gear and really had nothing to do but Baal runs. More content and the ability to stop rushes would make this game king again. Nothing was worse than having somebody just rush to get the act done and never ebing able to enjoy all the little things that were in each act. It would be nice if they got rid of quests like Bloodraven, after the first time nobody really did it. There should be different quest for each difficulty, so each time each act or realm offers somehting new for players who have been there already. But either way this game still looks incredible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=d3-general&t=52211&p=1post52211
"#3 - Diablo 2 CLASSIC "Yellow" Flavored items
It was an utter shame to see these items goto crap when Lord of Destruction came out. These were by far one of the main reasons for me to go magic finding, and actually have FUN while doing it for hours, days, and weeks on end. I am not exactly sure what changed technically from classic yellows to expansion yellows but whatever it was, was not a good change. I think too many prefixes and suffixes got added into the mix, some worthless prefixes and suffixes got added, some combinations of prefixes and suffixes that should not be allowed were allowed, or just all of the above.
The bottom line is, when LOD came out, yellow/rare items ceased to be of any real value, and it was a real shame because they were the most unique items in the game, probably of any game! These are the items that made people envious over another character. When you would see a Barbarian with AN AWESOME-UNIQUE-ONE-OF-A-KIND RARE/YELLOW executioner sword/lance, or you would see an awesome gothic bow, or a DUAL LEECH RING, and no one else in the world had it! And this one person that had it wouldn't trade it for all the SOJS in the world...It was inspiring! and truly TREASURE! It made you green with jealousy so you would immediately go out magic finding for hours where the person said it dropped HOPING, HOPING, waiting, and waiting with anticipation that it or something like it would drop, and most of the time it wouldn't or maybe you would end up finding something equally awesome or for another class. These Diablo 2 Classic rares were unique, one of a kind, and oh so fun to go hunting for.
When Lord of Destruction came out pretty much EVERY new yellow that dropped was crap and all the craze was now about uniques (Gold colored) that every single person could have and look the same in, set items, uber gemmed/runed items etc. Don't get me wrong, all those items are fun too, but nothing beat that feeling of having an AWESOME RARE that was useful and people envied you for and spent their own time trying to find its equal or better.
People like having the thought in their head that when they go out to magic find they could possibly get lucky and find an item that nobody in the whole world has, and it's unique and their the only person with an item exactly like it and that it is extremely useful to some build, be it a cookie cutter build or a crazy build.
It's not much fun to go magic finding if you already know that whatever drops someone or thousands already have it, and you are going to look almost the exact same as them once you min/max your build. This is kind of what killed the fun in magic finding for me, knowing that all the rares I found would be crap and the stuff that was useful, well..hundreds of thousands of people also had access too and already had.
Bring back the old Diablo 2 Classic rare in Diablo 3. Magic finding and overall game play is so much more fun when you know you can get lucky and find the right amount of stats/modifiers on an item to make people jealous and give them motivation and hope to go out and find their own unique treasure to compete with yours."
I couldn't agree more. I want to see rares become an ultimate end game. For example, lets say your average rare is worse than the average unique, but you could have some rares eventually topple the uniques from GG items.
Take a look at his whole thread its a good read even if I didn't care much about music and character voices.
Bashiok - Blizzard Poster
I disagree.
Yes, for certain classes a rare can be used for certain spots such as a trapsin using a +2skill +3ls claw, but a barbarian wouldn't do that. Neither would a paladin or an amazon. In most cases its doubtful that a rare will be your item.
In very specific cases yes, rares are used and even magic such as the +skill, fcr, 2os tiaras.
I want it like classic D2 where you could find a range of rares tha were better, not just the top .01% of rares that need every mod just so.
Bashiok - Blizzard Poster
Chancies? Cmon, only good for mf. True, the best for mf, but c'mon, IAS/knock +other for amazon gloves? Can't be topped.
Tarnhelm, also the best for mf, but even for a sorc there was +skills and mods that topped it. For melee, there was much better.
Way, WAY back in the day I had a lance barb, now what unique weapon could top a 400+ rare lance? Of course, he sucked as soon as LoD came out... mostly because of atack speed, but I couldn't handle the beginning of A5.
Now adays, my shako, occy, tal armor, etc etc is all joke armor almost when compared to other items. I think most agree that runewords should be done away with or at least knocked down to the power of uniques/rares.
Bashiok - Blizzard Poster
Tarnhelm: Well its ok if you MF and want +1 skill, perhaps best used by paladin that can easily get resists up, but if they can't, they better stick to rares that give resits and life.
SOJS: not overpowered, you know these things are hard to find, none of my ladder characters have ever had these and I've been very satisfied with my rare fcr rings with mana life str and resists(many times even then my resists haven been totally full) Even when you get these, one of them is easily enough. For other ring I would take rare with above stats.
Magefists: well these are nice if you can't get FCR up any other way. These has been the sorc item since the beginning of the game. These are also HOT in LOD, other options there are pretty much Frosts or trang oul
Frostburns: Well if you have enough FCR you can use these for more mana, but you can also use some nice rares with MF and resists if you want.
Goldskin: I don't know what char would use this.. needs way too much strenght for classic. Only if your other gear totally lacks resits I would use this. Any rare with +life +str and resists is better than this.
The Ward: Good untill you get better Rare. Paladins seek for 30/20 +2 prismatic or high resists ones.. sorcs look for same but without the +2.
Rattlecage: Mm OP? Another crappy unique armor.. it has crushing blow which is ruined by Flee.. goblin toes and this is overkill for pretty much every char. Only amazons might think about using this but since bowazons suck quite bad after 1.10 and I haven't seen any of them since 1.10 came it doesnt really matter.
Twitchtroe: this used to be the armor for bowazons, but since they don't really exist in classic its not so popular anymore. It's ok for sorcs for its stats and block but if they get block fixed with shield they can go for resist, life, str armor.
Venomward: op? how? offers nothing but poison res.. maybe in pvp against poison nec which are a rare sight I guess.
Iceblink: now this used to be really good for softcore barbs BEFORE LOD. After lod they changed how freeze works so it doesn't work for every hit and cold immunes. Not so popular anymore, dont offer any life or good def.
Rockfleece: how is this piece of crap OP? 10% damage reduce.. isn't that great when you get hit many % more with the low def it offers.
Silks: seen it only on bo barbs and summon necros.. other classes shouldn't bother.. high str req too for casters and palas. Only +1 skills for them and for barbs 5% ml which a baba can get from jewlery.
Wall of the Eyeless: Most people don't use this anymore, it used to be popular BEFORE LOD. You used it to get fastest possible cast back then. People use rare 30/20 resist shields nowadays.
Chance Guards; No other use than MF, but if you MF something that requires more than just +MF you might wanna use rare gloves with leech, resists, str/dex and MF
Bloodfist: Nice twink item... not for hell.
Goldwrap: Only good for MF.. and amazons BEFORE LOD used to have this for IAS. I guess they use more that death set combo nowadays, but since bowazons are really rare I just say this is for MF.
Bladebuckle: Nice in Nightmare.. rares are better in hell.
Goblin Toe: These are nice for Barb.. but before 1.10 even these weren't needed. In 1.10 they fucked up the monsters and barb can't do much without these. Sucky gameplay change not good item.
Raven Claw for enchantress? Are u serious.. in classic hell A4 u don't do much with fire damage. Haven't seen any enchantress in classic that does anything else but boost low levels or their barb or whatever.
This tells it all, you probably haven't ever even played Classic. Those items are frikin joke for melee class in hell. What we look for is high def rare ornate with good stats.
ANYWAYS the Original post is about how LOD changed the Rares. Yes they changed them alot, even for todays Classic. All the prefix and sufix levels got pretty much changed.. some stats were gone from some items like dexterity from belt, strenght from boots, 40+ resists. Game mechanics were changed.. Also many of the normal uniques that you still find in Classic too changed when LOD came. They boosted them quite a lot. Because of that and game mechanic changes, some of them became more popular than they were before. Also the fact that rares kinda sucks nowadays unless you get really lucky.
In LOD you find rares but 95% of them are filled with chance to cast shit when hit etc..
I was really amazed to find nice rare weapon in this ladder 349%ed 40ias colossus sword.. wow this is nice but still it should be ethereal to be even close to usefull in hell. I can prolly kill some carvers with this in act1 hell.
Even the rare finds in Classic has been changed a lot. You find shitloads of crap items and it is really rare to get a good one these days. Sometimes you find nice stats for a weapon but in a firkin dirk from hell act4. My barb uses 236 dmg martel which is ok but I'd like something closer to 280. I've found about 4 martels which none of them has been over 150 damage.. kinda depressing. Also finding same item types starts to get boring.. I think I've found 6 unique short battle bows from hell and 5 venom wards etc. I want some rares with good mods in a good item type.
So yes I agree with the orginal post. Rares should be the best items. And yes I know they are now, but if you find 1 good rare in 5 years you can't really say that. So the prefix/affix system and the item drop mechanisms should be more to the way of pre-LOD. I suppose they changed this because the introduced exceptional and elite unique items.
EDIT: well I found a nice shot of ladder 5 barb in classic. http://img27.picoodle.com/data/img27/3/9/6/f_BaronSanctim_562971b.jpg Hes got angelics so its quite obvious he is duel barb but look at all those rares, quite kicky ones too.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
LoD rares are better yes.. but a shitloads of harder to get anything usefull, than in classic, even today. Pre-LOD it was even more enjoyable to identify rares since there was a lot better chance to get nice stuff.
One friend had found 25 unique rings so far in this season and 0 sojs.. dunno if thats easy. Besides if you don't MF in the lame "LOD-way" it's even harder. I have found 1 soj and it was in 1.09. Prolly gambled a few before LOD but can't remember how many.
Dime is right.. LOD is the biggest scum that happened to this game. I managed to stand that for about ½ year then I went back to Classic.. which SURPRISE SURPRISE they ruined also. Idiots changed cast system, immunes, leeching, rushing and everything. In 1.09 the most popular char I had was Barb since the changes affected least on barbs in Classic.
So i played quite a while Classic.. 1.09 was ok in LOD but ehe wtf did they think about 1.10.. fucked up the game even more.. thank you. I'm so glad they will bring us totally new game with D3.
Things changed.. in most games, things change to better with expansions.. in blizzard games they tend to get worse. Just look at the shit that Wow is now.
Well sorry but such a newbie claim that those unique armors are better than rares.. wtf? Any rare mage plate --> ornate plate with defence,life mod is better than the uniques. And you can get those even easier than uniques.
Just got the feeling that you've only played lod since thats where most people don't care about rares. Sometimes I've joined a game and went to cleared area and the floors are filled with rares.. some of them that could even have potential of being good.
So in short pre-LOD > now and some of the systems in the orginal d2 should be around in D3 at least rather than what it is now.
ps. rushing sucks ass and so does the people that do it.
untwink, unrush, non-mf run, solo exp for the win.
</thread>
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)