Wipe the Difficulty levels

  • #41
    But the TOU (Terms of Use) that you *should* be reading are still being broken by them, regardless. We're not arguing what is fastest and easiest (or "successful") here, we're arguing what should and should not be done. No one is going to say that cheating is harder than playing like you're supposed to- that's why it's called cheating- taking advantage of unintended bugs/glitches in the game to expediate your own desires. Taking advantage of glitches is also against the TOU.
  • #42
    A law without a consequence is not truly a law.
  • #43
    law –noun 1.the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom or policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision.
    I see nothing about laws not having consequences as not being laws in there.
  • #44
    Quote from "Magistrate" »
    I see nothing about laws not having consequences as not being laws in there.


    enforced I'm puzzled as to how you would enforce something without some form of consequences.

    Lets face it I can't even count on the honor system for more than 10 minutes of playing with my friends in Halo(no screen watching!). So how can Blizzard count on it for millions of people.
  • #45
    Plus with multiple levels we get more than one bite at the Secret Cow Level easter egg in D2 and that new easter egg we all know about ;) in D3 :D
    So we've got over the problem of colour in D3. Great. Now let's argue about everything else not yet set in stone and help make this game simply great! Game on.
  • #46
    Quote from "Khaine" »
    Imo they should take off the dificult levels from the game (normal, nightmare,hell) and instead of 4-5 acts give us 9-10 with approximately a 8-9 lvl goal per act, this would make the game much less repetitive.

    sorry about the english, tryed my best :(


    I like the idea of changing or altering the current system. I haven't played D2 in some time but remember always waiting to be rushed to Hell so that I could get going with what i thought to be the "real" game. Cheating in a sense, I know, but never the less, many people did this. What if there were still 3 difficulty levels but each had their own distinct acts? Acts 1-5 in Normal, 6-10 in Nightmare and 10-15 in Hell. This would get rid of the repetitiveness of the game but still keep the crowdedness of each game low and keep more ambitious players separated from those who are content just beating Normal.
  • #47
    Quote from "Mastertim" »
    enforced I'm puzzled as to how you would enforce something without some form of consequences.

    Lets face it I can't even count on the honor system for more than 10 minutes of playing with my friends in Halo(no screen watching!). So how can Blizzard count on it for millions of people.


    I'd be glad to become acquainted with you on US West Battle.net, as I base my moral principles on the honor system.

    Rules are there because they are trying to prevent the bad results. People take advantage of glitches and what do we have? A messed up economy! People take advantage of Baal running bots and what do we have? Level 99's in the first two weeks on the new ladder!

    So, in retrospect, the punishment is the negative and long-term result.
  • #48
    Quote from "akse" »
    Well first I don't play lod.. so the levels are slightly different. Second I was able to hit monsters with no problems at 60 because of that.

    And what if they have? Jealous?

    edit. oh sorry i didnt tell that i don't do this in hardcore for reasons but also in there i could do it if wanted. I dont wanna look cheap with at level 60 with hell title. In ez mode softcore if I want to I can do it with all characters but I hardly do since I wanna play trough the quests which leads to higher levels :( sorry did I mislead u?


    You don't play LoD, your claim means nothing to me.
    Arb / Variel
  • #49
    okay whoever made this is a retard
    wiping the difficulties would make the game
    stupid
    cause everything would be either too hard or too easy.
  • #50
    Quote from "Khaine" »
    Imo they should take off the dificult levels from the game (normal, nightmare,hell) and instead of 4-5 acts give us 9-10 with approximately a 8-9 lvl goal per act, this would make the game much less repetitive.
    I agree. Nightmare and Hell are useless, but take away form the game. I'd rather have the last few acts just as hard as Hell is, instead of replay Act 5 for the 3rd time. >_

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    Lemme just ask this: what harm is there in having multiple difficulties? If you think they're dumb, don't play them. Just enjoy beating the game on normal. The difficulties give the game added longevity for those of us that want it. The ones who don't care for them aren't losing anything by having them there.
    Not true. The difficulties give too much of an advantage to those who did them.

    For one thing: PvP. Don't you need the best items and highest level sto play PvP? yes you do. So you have to go to hell, even if you are not interested in PvM anymore.
    By the time you finish Normal, your highest skill is not anywhere near maxed. When I finished the game on Normal with my bone necro I had like 18 bone spear and just began doing bone spirit or something like that. The skills are not properly represented or usable in Normal. You have to go into Nightmare. I don't like this.
  • #51
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    I agree. Nightmare and Hell are useless, but take away form the game. I'd rather have the last few acts just as hard as Hell is, instead of replay Act 5 for the 3rd time. >_

    See, I disagree with this. Sure, things look the same, but the experience is radically different. The monsters are much stronger, many of them have immunities, more of them are unique monsters, etc. You seem to have a shallow view of the difficulty settings.
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Not true. The difficulties give too much of an advantage to those who did them.

    The difficulties don't give anything to anyone. They merely extend the game for those interested in continuing on. Once you conquer the game, then what? Start over with a new character? I love being able to take my same character and press on with stronger monsters, better loot, etc. Can you imagine trying to reach level 90 with just Act 5 Normal?
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    For one thing: PvP. Don't you need the best items and highest level sto play PvP? yes you do. So you have to go to hell, even if you are not interested in PvM anymore.

    So, rather than work harder, you are suggesting the game be dumbed down to accommodate those who don't want to work for it? That is a scrub mentality. "I don't want to do it the way everyone else does; I want the game to be reduced to my level." Just go onto Battle.net and join the "low level duels" then. See? Everyone is happy.
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    By the time you finish Normal, your highest skill is not anywhere near maxed. When I finished the game on Normal with my bone necro I had like 18 bone spear and just began doing bone spirit or something like that. The skills are not properly represented or usable in Normal. You have to go into Nightmare. I don't like this.

    But that's the beauty of the this game. Even if Hell is "the place to be", at least it still covers most of the acts. According to your suggestion, everyone would just camp in the final act because all the previous acts would be utterly worthless. Again, the experience is radically different in each difficulty. Even if Diablo 3 features 40 acts; I still want the three difficulties. It is such a small change that makes the game that much deeper.
  • #52
    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    See, I disagree with this. Sure, things look the same, but the experience is radically different. The monsters are much stronger, many of them have immunities, more of them are unique monsters, etc. You seem to have a shallow view of the difficulty settings.
    Tweaking monsters is something I can do at home with a map editor and an MPQ unpacker. Making levels, monster models, sounds, music, items is something I can't exactly do at home.

    As far as I am concerned, in Nightmare and Hell monsters get stronger and get immunites, and items get better. This is not enough for me to evolve the playing experience. It's more like "It takes 5 more hits now to kill a Fallen". That's what "monsters are stronger" means. They have 500x more health... very fun, really...

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    The difficulties don't give anything to anyone. They merely extend the game for those interested in continuing on. Once you conquer the game, then what? Start over with a new character? I love being able to take my same character and press on with stronger monsters, better loot, etc. Can you imagine trying to reach level 90 with just Act 5 Normal?
    Yes, that's the problem. The extra levels give advantage. Extra levels that some people don't need. Nightmare and Hell used to be additions, now they were made a necessity.

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    So, rather than work harder
    Work harder? Being able to do something repetative for you means working harder? Diablo II is not a hard game. It's a grinding game.

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    you are suggesting the game be dumbed down to accommodate those who don't want to work for it? That is a scrub mentality. "I don't want to do it the way everyone else does; I want the game to be reduced to my level."
    Dumbed down? Who's dumber, a person who wants the game to be longe and more varied, or a person who likes replaying everything 100 times? You decide.

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    But that's the beauty of the this game. Even if Hell is "the place to be", at least it still covers most of the acts. According to your suggestion, everyone would just camp in the final act because all the previous acts would be utterly worthless. Again, the experience is radically different in each difficulty. Even if Diablo 3 features 40 acts; I still want the three difficulties. It is such a small change that makes the game that much deeper.
    It doesn't make anything deeper, pure illusion. If the last act of the game is full of hard-to-kill monsters, incredible loot, and immunities, the result would be the same.
  • #53
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Tweaking monsters is something I can do at home with a map editor and an MPQ unpacker. Making levels, monster models, sounds, music, items is something I can't exactly do at home.

    Sure, but that is an unofficial approach. That means Battle.net lacks that option. I like that it is 'official' and used by everyone.
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    As far as I am concerned, in Nightmare and Hell monsters get stronger and get immunites, and items get better. This is not enough for me to evolve the playing experience. It's more like "It takes 5 more hits now to kill a Fallen". That's what "monsters are stronger" means. They have 500x more health... very fun, really...

    This is just a matter of personal preference. For me, I enjoy using my higher level skills on the Act 1 monsters. It has relevance because the monsters really are that difficult (as opposed to me just going back to Act 1 just to pwn weaklings). Obviously, you see things differently. Nothing can be done about that. :(
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Yes, that's the problem. The extra levels give advantage. Extra levels that some people don't need. Nightmare and Hell used to be additions, now they were made a necessity.

    I'm not sure what you're saying here. Everyone went to Hell (lol), but you didn't want to...?
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Work harder? Being able to do something repetative for you means working harder? Diablo II is not a hard game. It's a grinding game.

    Exactly, and you don't want to do the grinding. That's working harder, my friend. Investing more time, finding ways to do it faster (aka rushes), etc. are working harder.
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Dumbed down? Who's dumber, a person who wants the game to be longe and more varied, or a person who likes replaying everything 100 times? You decide.

    I'm all for longer and more varied, but you are the one who is against that. I want Blizzard to add more to the game! I want more acts, more monsters, more story, etc. After all that is done, insert a difficulty setting, and the magic has been tripled! If you don't like that, don't play them! Why must the difficulty settings be removed just because you don't like them? I'm baffled by that...
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    It doesn't make anything deeper, pure illusion. If the last act of the game is full of hard-to-kill monsters, incredible loot, and immunities, the result would be the same.

    Not really. As I said above, if Diablo 2 had no difficulties, everyone would just camp in Act 5 because that is the only place with any real challenge. With the difficulties, I see all 5 acts in use because Hell is so hard. People do Tristram Runs, Tomb Runs, Diablo Runs, and Baal Runs.

    I see what you are trying to say. If I understand you correctly, you would have made Diablo 2 into 15 distinct acts instead of 5 acts repeated twice. I'm cool with that... except, if you're gonna construct those 15 distinct acts, why not still add the difficulty settings for those who enjoy it? I reach the end and want to keep going!
  • #54
    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    I'm not sure what you're saying here. Everyone went to Hell (lol), but you didn't want to...?
    You are very wrong about everyone. I hardly ever go into hell. I get bored of the game in Nightmare. Yes, I didn't want to.

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    Exactly, and you don't want to do the grinding. That's working harder, my friend. Investing more time, finding ways to do it faster (aka rushes), etc. are working harder.
    Sounds like you are on a job. Except you don't get paid. You are paying for it. Very, very stupid in my opinion. To do something you don't like inside a video game lol.

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    I'm all for longer and more varied, but you are the one who is against that. I want Blizzard to add more to the game! I want more acts, more monsters, more story, etc. After all that is done, insert a difficulty setting, and the magic has been tripled!
    Extra difficulty settings require extra configuration. They require time. That means they take away the time to develop a better, longer game.

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    If you don't like that, don't play them! Why must the difficulty settings be removed just because you don't like them? I'm baffled by that...
    Again, I already listed the issues of not playing Nightmare and Hell. What if I like PvP? But to PvP I have to go to Nightmare and Hell, even if they weren't originally a part of the game, but an addition of the game. I won't be able to use skills properly without Nightmare. The game is geared to go past Normal. If you didn't go past normal you did not complete the game. That's why I want them gone.

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    Not really. As I said above, if Diablo 2 had no difficulties, everyone would just camp in Act 5 because that is the only place with any real challenge. With the difficulties, I see all 5 acts in use because Hell is so hard. People do Tristram Runs, Tomb Runs, Diablo Runs, and Baal Runs.
    Again, not everyone, but people who are lacking any requirement to do anything besides runs. There is no challenge in Diablo. There is only the condition of "monster takes more hits to kill". That's not challenge...

    Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
    I see what you are trying to say. If I understand you correctly, you would have made Diablo 2 into 15 distinct acts instead of 5 acts repeated twice. I'm cool with that... except, if you're gonna construct those 15 distinct acts, why not still add the difficulty settings for those who enjoy it? I reach the end and want to keep going!
    Because difficulty seconds take development time while, in my opinion, adding much less to the game than additional acts would.
  • #55
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    You are very wrong about everyone. I hardly ever go into hell. I get bored of the game in Nightmare. Yes, I didn't want to.

    That is fine. Why is this a problem with the game?
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Sounds like you are on a job. Except you don't get paid. You are paying for it. Very, very stupid in my opinion. To do something you don't like inside a video game lol.

    Then... don't play the game...?
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Extra difficulty settings require extra configuration. They require time. That means they take away the time to develop a better, longer game.

    Hardly. Developing character models, sound effects, storyline, etc. all take far longer than it takes to tweak a few stats.
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Again, I already listed the issues of not playing Nightmare and Hell. What if I like PvP? But to PvP I have to go to Nightmare and Hell, even if they weren't originally a part of the game, but an addition of the game. I won't be able to use skills properly without Nightmare. The game is geared to go past Normal. If you didn't go past normal you did not complete the game. That's why I want them gone.

    What if I like driving? I don't want to go get a driver's license. I think it's silly that I have to do what everyone else does to get what I want. This is why I pointed out that you want the game dumbed down. Rather than suck it up and do what it takes to compete, you want the game to cater to your lifestyle. How about you just find others that match your lifestyle? That's what people already do. Don't like Nightmare/Hell? Do Normal duels! Why must everyone be pulled down to your level? Just play the game how you want to play it! Don't dictate to others how it should be done.
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Again, not everyone, but people who are lacking any requirement to do anything besides runs. There is no challenge in Diablo. There is only the condition of "monster takes more hits to kill". That's not challenge...

    Hm, I sense a problem. You said earlier that you virtually never venture into Hell... and now you claim that it's not a challenge. Exactly what character build do you use that makes Hell so incredibly easy? It is certainly beatable, but it is definitely a challenge. Lots of times I see people who make overly specific builds. For instance, lightning trap assassins rape everything, but they're screwed when they run into monsters that are immune to lightning. There is much more to it than "hitting more". I don't quite sense that you've even conquered Hell very many times.
    Quote from "Equinox" »
    Because difficulty seconds take development time while, in my opinion, adding much less to the game than additional acts would.

    I think you misunderstood me. What I'm saying is that if you did create a full 15 act game for Diablo 2, why not just add the difficulty settings at the end and make it 45 acts long? Those who think 15 acts is plenty will finish the 15 and be done. Those who want to press on with their amazing powers can. I don't think Blizzard shortened Diablo 2 for the sake of difficulty settings. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  • #56
    Personally, I liked difficulty levels.

    You could get end-game items off andy on the hardest mode, thus you could essentially fight anywhere and still be challenged.

    Edit: also, didn't they talk about randomized dungeons? Wouldn't that mean that if you redid an ACT, you wouldn't necessarily be doing the same the thing over and over?

    Correct me if I'm wrong
  • #57
    Quote from "Azoruk" »

    Edit: also, didn't they talk about randomized dungeons? Wouldn't that mean that if you redid an ACT, you wouldn't necessarily be doing the same the thing over and over?

    Correct me if I'm wrong


    Well D2 dungeons were considered random also because on each character and difficulty you did them on they were different.

    It still didn't feel very random. Though I'm sure D3 will provide lots more excitement.
  • #58
    I just had a thought.

    They don't need to wipe the levels of difficulty to increase the in-game contents.

    They just need to make the higher levels of difficulty more unique.

    Like instead of just replaying the entire game with stronger monsters, they could actually add and change contents.

    For example, Nightmare and Hell could have monsters that can't be found on normal or monsters in Hell could have new spells they didn't have on normal

    They could also add new quests exclusive to Nightmare and Hell and then only exclusive to Hell.

    You get the idea

  • #59
    Quote from "Veltras" »
    I just had a thought.

    They don't need to wipe the levels of difficulty to increase the in-game contents.

    They just need to make the higher levels of difficulty more unique.

    Like instead of just replaying the entire game with stronger monsters, they could actually add and change contents.

    For example, Nightmare and Hell could have monsters that can't be found on normal or monsters in Hell could have new spells they didn't have on normal

    They could also add new quests exclusive to Nightmare and Hell and then only exclusive to Hell.

    You get the idea


    I totally agree, and with your suggestion I see the potential for more difficulty-levels in a expansion.
    If you stare into the abyss long enough, the abyss becomes you.
    There is no greater mistake than the hasty conclusion that
    opinions are worthless because they are badly argued.
  • #60
    Quote from "akse" »

    Not sure if anyone said about beating baal at level 60 but i'm sure its doable with some classes. Take a hammerdin who gets max resists for hell (not that hard at 60) can very likely beat hell baal at 60.

    :offtopic:How you will get to Baal at lvl 60 ? You have to beat the ancients first, and they usually give you level up (or couple of levels up) ?:offtopic:

    About the difficulties... before ~3 years when i started playing with my 10th (for example) character there was always a thought in my head saying "It's not very interesting to do the same quests again and again, they could at least change some little details like bosses, different quest bonuses or whatever". Infact there are differences like the immunes, more skilled mobs, enchanted with different abilities, but for me this was not enough. However i continue playing, because i wanted to get to 99 and build my character more powerful.
    About the idea of two difficulties 1-50, 50-100 and longer story line, i will say that it is a good idea, but that will probably delay the game release even more, because its much more easy to touch a little the stats of the same mobs in normal difficulty, than building everything from the ground: new mobs, new artwork, new npc's, new story.... much more work to do.

    P.S. I find the argument "i like the other difficulties because you get better loot" such a nonsense. The devs could make the game with one difficulty, and still have the good loot if they wanted. So thats not an argument at all.
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