Imo they should take off the dificult levels from the game (normal, nightmare,hell) and instead of 4-5 acts give us 9-10 with approximately a 8-9 lvl goal per act, this would make the game much less repetitive.
I agree. Nightmare and Hell are useless, but take away form the game. I'd rather have the last few acts just as hard as Hell is, instead of replay Act 5 for the 3rd time. >_< I hate repeating things, but DII doesn't even let you use all your skills in Normal.
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
Lemme just ask this: what harm is there in having multiple difficulties? If you think they're dumb, don't play them. Just enjoy beating the game on normal. The difficulties give the game added longevity for those of us that want it. The ones who don't care for them aren't losing anything by having them there.
Not true. The difficulties give too much of an advantage to those who did them.
For one thing: PvP. Don't you need the best items and highest level sto play PvP? yes you do. So you have to go to hell, even if you are not interested in PvM anymore.
By the time you finish Normal, your highest skill is not anywhere near maxed. When I finished the game on Normal with my bone necro I had like 18 bone spear and just began doing bone spirit or something like that. The skills are not properly represented or usable in Normal. You have to go into Nightmare. I don't like this.
I agree. Nightmare and Hell are useless, but take away form the game. I'd rather have the last few acts just as hard as Hell is, instead of replay Act 5 for the 3rd time. >_< I hate repeating things, but DII doesn't even let you use all your skills in Normal.
See, I disagree with this. Sure, things look the same, but the experience is radically different. The monsters are much stronger, many of them have immunities, more of them are unique monsters, etc. You seem to have a shallow view of the difficulty settings.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Not true. The difficulties give too much of an advantage to those who did them.
The difficulties don't give anything to anyone. They merely extend the game for those interested in continuing on. Once you conquer the game, then what? Start over with a new character? I love being able to take my same character and press on with stronger monsters, better loot, etc. Can you imagine trying to reach level 90 with just Act 5 Normal?
Quote from "Equinox" »
For one thing: PvP. Don't you need the best items and highest level sto play PvP? yes you do. So you have to go to hell, even if you are not interested in PvM anymore.
So, rather than work harder, you are suggesting the game be dumbed down to accommodate those who don't want to work for it? That is a scrub mentality. "I don't want to do it the way everyone else does; I want the game to be reduced to my level." Just go onto Battle.net and join the "low level duels" then. See? Everyone is happy.
Quote from "Equinox" »
By the time you finish Normal, your highest skill is not anywhere near maxed. When I finished the game on Normal with my bone necro I had like 18 bone spear and just began doing bone spirit or something like that. The skills are not properly represented or usable in Normal. You have to go into Nightmare. I don't like this.
But that's the beauty of the this game. Even if Hell is "the place to be", at least it still covers most of the acts. According to your suggestion, everyone would just camp in the final act because all the previous acts would be utterly worthless. Again, the experience is radically different in each difficulty. Even if Diablo 3 features 40 acts; I still want the three difficulties. It is such a small change that makes the game that much deeper.
See, I disagree with this. Sure, things look the same, but the experience is radically different. The monsters are much stronger, many of them have immunities, more of them are unique monsters, etc. You seem to have a shallow view of the difficulty settings.
Tweaking monsters is something I can do at home with a map editor and an MPQ unpacker. Making levels, monster models, sounds, music, items is something I can't exactly do at home.
As far as I am concerned, in Nightmare and Hell monsters get stronger and get immunites, and items get better. This is not enough for me to evolve the playing experience. It's more like "It takes 5 more hits now to kill a Fallen". That's what "monsters are stronger" means. They have 500x more health... very fun, really...
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
The difficulties don't give anything to anyone. They merely extend the game for those interested in continuing on. Once you conquer the game, then what? Start over with a new character? I love being able to take my same character and press on with stronger monsters, better loot, etc. Can you imagine trying to reach level 90 with just Act 5 Normal?
Yes, that's the problem. The extra levels give advantage. Extra levels that some people don't need. Nightmare and Hell used to be additions, now they were made a necessity.
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
So, rather than work harder
Work harder? Being able to do something repetative for you means working harder? Diablo II is not a hard game. It's a grinding game.
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
you are suggesting the game be dumbed down to accommodate those who don't want to work for it? That is a scrub mentality. "I don't want to do it the way everyone else does; I want the game to be reduced to my level."
Dumbed down? Who's dumber, a person who wants the game to be longe and more varied, or a person who likes replaying everything 100 times? You decide.
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
But that's the beauty of the this game. Even if Hell is "the place to be", at least it still covers most of the acts. According to your suggestion, everyone would just camp in the final act because all the previous acts would be utterly worthless. Again, the experience is radically different in each difficulty. Even if Diablo 3 features 40 acts; I still want the three difficulties. It is such a small change that makes the game that much deeper.
It doesn't make anything deeper, pure illusion. If the last act of the game is full of hard-to-kill monsters, incredible loot, and immunities, the result would be the same.
Tweaking monsters is something I can do at home with a map editor and an MPQ unpacker. Making levels, monster models, sounds, music, items is something I can't exactly do at home.
Sure, but that is an unofficial approach. That means Battle.net lacks that option. I like that it is 'official' and used by everyone.
Quote from "Equinox" »
As far as I am concerned, in Nightmare and Hell monsters get stronger and get immunites, and items get better. This is not enough for me to evolve the playing experience. It's more like "It takes 5 more hits now to kill a Fallen". That's what "monsters are stronger" means. They have 500x more health... very fun, really...
This is just a matter of personal preference. For me, I enjoy using my higher level skills on the Act 1 monsters. It has relevance because the monsters really are that difficult (as opposed to me just going back to Act 1 just to pwn weaklings). Obviously, you see things differently. Nothing can be done about that.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Yes, that's the problem. The extra levels give advantage. Extra levels that some people don't need. Nightmare and Hell used to be additions, now they were made a necessity.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Everyone went to Hell (lol), but you didn't want to...?
Quote from "Equinox" »
Work harder? Being able to do something repetative for you means working harder? Diablo II is not a hard game. It's a grinding game.
Exactly, and you don't want to do the grinding. That's working harder, my friend. Investing more time, finding ways to do it faster (aka rushes), etc. are working harder.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Dumbed down? Who's dumber, a person who wants the game to be longe and more varied, or a person who likes replaying everything 100 times? You decide.
I'm all for longer and more varied, but you are the one who is against that. I want Blizzard to add more to the game! I want more acts, more monsters, more story, etc. After all that is done, insert a difficulty setting, and the magic has been tripled! If you don't like that, don't play them! Why must the difficulty settings be removed just because you don't like them? I'm baffled by that...
Quote from "Equinox" »
It doesn't make anything deeper, pure illusion. If the last act of the game is full of hard-to-kill monsters, incredible loot, and immunities, the result would be the same.
Not really. As I said above, if Diablo 2 had no difficulties, everyone would just camp in Act 5 because that is the only place with any real challenge. With the difficulties, I see all 5 acts in use because Hell is so hard. People do Tristram Runs, Tomb Runs, Diablo Runs, and Baal Runs.
I see what you are trying to say. If I understand you correctly, you would have made Diablo 2 into 15 distinct acts instead of 5 acts repeated twice. I'm cool with that... except, if you're gonna construct those 15 distinct acts, why not still add the difficulty settings for those who enjoy it? I reach the end and want to keep going!
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Everyone went to Hell (lol), but you didn't want to...?
You are very wrong about everyone. I hardly ever go into hell. I get bored of the game in Nightmare. Yes, I didn't want to.
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
Exactly, and you don't want to do the grinding. That's working harder, my friend. Investing more time, finding ways to do it faster (aka rushes), etc. are working harder.
Sounds like you are on a job. Except you don't get paid. You are paying for it. Very, very stupid in my opinion. To do something you don't like inside a video game lol.
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
I'm all for longer and more varied, but you are the one who is against that. I want Blizzard to add more to the game! I want more acts, more monsters, more story, etc. After all that is done, insert a difficulty setting, and the magic has been tripled!
Extra difficulty settings require extra configuration. They require time. That means they take away the time to develop a better, longer game.
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
If you don't like that, don't play them! Why must the difficulty settings be removed just because you don't like them? I'm baffled by that...
Again, I already listed the issues of not playing Nightmare and Hell. What if I like PvP? But to PvP I have to go to Nightmare and Hell, even if they weren't originally a part of the game, but an addition of the game. I won't be able to use skills properly without Nightmare. The game is geared to go past Normal. If you didn't go past normal you did not complete the game. That's why I want them gone.
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
Not really. As I said above, if Diablo 2 had no difficulties, everyone would just camp in Act 5 because that is the only place with any real challenge. With the difficulties, I see all 5 acts in use because Hell is so hard. People do Tristram Runs, Tomb Runs, Diablo Runs, and Baal Runs.
Again, not everyone, but people who are lacking any requirement to do anything besides runs. There is no challenge in Diablo. There is only the condition of "monster takes more hits to kill". That's not challenge...
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
I see what you are trying to say. If I understand you correctly, you would have made Diablo 2 into 15 distinct acts instead of 5 acts repeated twice. I'm cool with that... except, if you're gonna construct those 15 distinct acts, why not still add the difficulty settings for those who enjoy it? I reach the end and want to keep going!
Because difficulty seconds take development time while, in my opinion, adding much less to the game than additional acts would.
You are very wrong about everyone. I hardly ever go into hell. I get bored of the game in Nightmare. Yes, I didn't want to.
That is fine. Why is this a problem with the game?
Quote from "Equinox" »
Sounds like you are on a job. Except you don't get paid. You are paying for it. Very, very stupid in my opinion. To do something you don't like inside a video game lol.
Then... don't play the game...?
Quote from "Equinox" »
Extra difficulty settings require extra configuration. They require time. That means they take away the time to develop a better, longer game.
Hardly. Developing character models, sound effects, storyline, etc. all take far longer than it takes to tweak a few stats.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Again, I already listed the issues of not playing Nightmare and Hell. What if I like PvP? But to PvP I have to go to Nightmare and Hell, even if they weren't originally a part of the game, but an addition of the game. I won't be able to use skills properly without Nightmare. The game is geared to go past Normal. If you didn't go past normal you did not complete the game. That's why I want them gone.
What if I like driving? I don't want to go get a driver's license. I think it's silly that I have to do what everyone else does to get what I want. This is why I pointed out that you want the game dumbed down. Rather than suck it up and do what it takes to compete, you want the game to cater to your lifestyle. How about you just find others that match your lifestyle? That's what people already do. Don't like Nightmare/Hell? Do Normal duels! Why must everyone be pulled down to your level? Just play the game how you want to play it! Don't dictate to others how it should be done.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Again, not everyone, but people who are lacking any requirement to do anything besides runs. There is no challenge in Diablo. There is only the condition of "monster takes more hits to kill". That's not challenge...
Hm, I sense a problem. You said earlier that you virtually never venture into Hell... and now you claim that it's not a challenge. Exactly what character build do you use that makes Hell so incredibly easy? It is certainly beatable, but it is definitely a challenge. Lots of times I see people who make overly specific builds. For instance, lightning trap assassins rape everything, but they're screwed when they run into monsters that are immune to lightning. There is much more to it than "hitting more". I don't quite sense that you've even conquered Hell very many times.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Because difficulty seconds take development time while, in my opinion, adding much less to the game than additional acts would.
I think you misunderstood me. What I'm saying is that if you did create a full 15 act game for Diablo 2, why not just add the difficulty settings at the end and make it 45 acts long? Those who think 15 acts is plenty will finish the 15 and be done. Those who want to press on with their amazing powers can. I don't think Blizzard shortened Diablo 2 for the sake of difficulty settings. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You could get end-game items off andy on the hardest mode, thus you could essentially fight anywhere and still be challenged.
Edit: also, didn't they talk about randomized dungeons? Wouldn't that mean that if you redid an ACT, you wouldn't necessarily be doing the same the thing over and over?
Edit: also, didn't they talk about randomized dungeons? Wouldn't that mean that if you redid an ACT, you wouldn't necessarily be doing the same the thing over and over?
Correct me if I'm wrong
Well D2 dungeons were considered random also because on each character and difficulty you did them on they were different.
It still didn't feel very random. Though I'm sure D3 will provide lots more excitement.
Part of the fun of Diablo was doing Low lvl boss runs and still getting the items you need. I know plenty of people including me Mf'd Andariel and Mephisto in Hell. If you remove Difficultys then il have no reason to revisit eariler boss stages and what not. It lowers the amount of runs your going to do x3. I dont agree with taking the difficulty setting out at all. What i do reccomend though is 6 Acts norm,nm,hell and then add another 3 Acts for the next Expansion.
I just hope it isn't the same monsters rehashed with an immunity over and over again.. It should be that the higher you go the more swarms of monsters you encounter.
Part of the fun of Diablo was doing Low lvl boss runs and still getting the items you need. I know plenty of people including me Mf'd Andariel and Mephisto in Hell. If you remove Difficultys then il have no reason to revisit eariler boss stages and what not. It lowers the amount of runs your going to do x3. I dont agree with taking the difficulty setting out at all. What i do reccomend though is 6 Acts norm,nm,hell and then add another 3 Acts for the next Expansion.
How do u know we are gonna do any boss runs in the next game? I really hope we won't. I think nm at least is pretty useless atm, It always have the least games also, people just run trough it and power level at act5 then go to hell.
Anyways I don't care it will be a good game no matter what.
How you will get to Baal at lvl 60 ? You have to beat the ancients first, and they usually give you level up (or couple of levels up)
Oh yea I forgot they tried to prevent rushing with those limitations.. well pre 1.10 it was possible at least.
I just don't agree with this or see how you can make this point. Just because there are three dificulties it's irrelevant to the length of the game. D1 was 16 levels. If you were a multiplayer character you could continue on to the other 2 difficulties. That's it though there were 16 levels. For D2 they originally made 4 acts. I think they were planning the 5th from the beginning but I have no insider information. They made the story. It was written to be 4 or 5 acts. Creating the other 2 difficulty levels in no way "shortened" the 5 act story.
Please explain.
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I really don't understand how am I supposed to explain this...
Nighmare = different enemy configuration, new items, new runes, penalties, balancing of such - extra development time.
Hell = see above, extra development time.
This means that instead of having like 9 ACTs in of the game (Normal), you get 5 ACTs in every difficulty. Overall longer, but less creative, more repetitive.
The main thing here is balancing, and that takes ages, so please don't tell me making Nightmare and Hell is absolutely free. If you ask for Nightmare and Hell to be even more varied, they would take even more time. >_<
you have ot have the diff levels. its like not having diablo 3 without diablo. its been around since the begining and you just cant throw it out like a wet dog.
I never looked at the difficulties like a "must have". I could live with them or without them, but considering how much focus they received in DII, I'd rather not have them. I don't see how they are canon. They have no relation to the gameplay, and are purely illusive. If you make the game 3 times as long, with monsters getting insanely strong over time with powerful items you get pretty much the same thing.
I think the difficulties were a great idea. I liked how each act had totally different combination of monsters, it was crazy.
I can see them making difficulties even more varied from one another.
I like this idea Acts1-3=normal 4-7=Nightmare 9-15=Hell I would love the game to be that long and that difficult.
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I don't like the idea, and I know we wont have to worry about it. No way they will remove difficulties from the game.
Why would they? Oh hey, lots of games now offer difficulty settings. From FPS to Hack and slash to RPG style games. I know, we will go away from this, which we started using oh so long ago, and inexplicably go back towhen games didn't offer this. Yeah, being behind the times will make sense.
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Not true. The difficulties give too much of an advantage to those who did them.
For one thing: PvP. Don't you need the best items and highest level sto play PvP? yes you do. So you have to go to hell, even if you are not interested in PvM anymore.
By the time you finish Normal, your highest skill is not anywhere near maxed. When I finished the game on Normal with my bone necro I had like 18 bone spear and just began doing bone spirit or something like that. The skills are not properly represented or usable in Normal. You have to go into Nightmare. I don't like this.
The difficulties don't give anything to anyone. They merely extend the game for those interested in continuing on. Once you conquer the game, then what? Start over with a new character? I love being able to take my same character and press on with stronger monsters, better loot, etc. Can you imagine trying to reach level 90 with just Act 5 Normal?
So, rather than work harder, you are suggesting the game be dumbed down to accommodate those who don't want to work for it? That is a scrub mentality. "I don't want to do it the way everyone else does; I want the game to be reduced to my level." Just go onto Battle.net and join the "low level duels" then. See? Everyone is happy.
But that's the beauty of the this game. Even if Hell is "the place to be", at least it still covers most of the acts. According to your suggestion, everyone would just camp in the final act because all the previous acts would be utterly worthless. Again, the experience is radically different in each difficulty. Even if Diablo 3 features 40 acts; I still want the three difficulties. It is such a small change that makes the game that much deeper.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
As far as I am concerned, in Nightmare and Hell monsters get stronger and get immunites, and items get better. This is not enough for me to evolve the playing experience. It's more like "It takes 5 more hits now to kill a Fallen". That's what "monsters are stronger" means. They have 500x more health... very fun, really...
Yes, that's the problem. The extra levels give advantage. Extra levels that some people don't need. Nightmare and Hell used to be additions, now they were made a necessity.
Work harder? Being able to do something repetative for you means working harder? Diablo II is not a hard game. It's a grinding game.
Dumbed down? Who's dumber, a person who wants the game to be longe and more varied, or a person who likes replaying everything 100 times? You decide.
It doesn't make anything deeper, pure illusion. If the last act of the game is full of hard-to-kill monsters, incredible loot, and immunities, the result would be the same.
This is just a matter of personal preference. For me, I enjoy using my higher level skills on the Act 1 monsters. It has relevance because the monsters really are that difficult (as opposed to me just going back to Act 1 just to pwn weaklings). Obviously, you see things differently. Nothing can be done about that.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Everyone went to Hell (lol), but you didn't want to...?
Exactly, and you don't want to do the grinding. That's working harder, my friend. Investing more time, finding ways to do it faster (aka rushes), etc. are working harder.
I'm all for longer and more varied, but you are the one who is against that. I want Blizzard to add more to the game! I want more acts, more monsters, more story, etc. After all that is done, insert a difficulty setting, and the magic has been tripled! If you don't like that, don't play them! Why must the difficulty settings be removed just because you don't like them? I'm baffled by that...
Not really. As I said above, if Diablo 2 had no difficulties, everyone would just camp in Act 5 because that is the only place with any real challenge. With the difficulties, I see all 5 acts in use because Hell is so hard. People do Tristram Runs, Tomb Runs, Diablo Runs, and Baal Runs.
I see what you are trying to say. If I understand you correctly, you would have made Diablo 2 into 15 distinct acts instead of 5 acts repeated twice. I'm cool with that... except, if you're gonna construct those 15 distinct acts, why not still add the difficulty settings for those who enjoy it? I reach the end and want to keep going!
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
Sounds like you are on a job. Except you don't get paid. You are paying for it. Very, very stupid in my opinion. To do something you don't like inside a video game lol.
Extra difficulty settings require extra configuration. They require time. That means they take away the time to develop a better, longer game.
Again, I already listed the issues of not playing Nightmare and Hell. What if I like PvP? But to PvP I have to go to Nightmare and Hell, even if they weren't originally a part of the game, but an addition of the game. I won't be able to use skills properly without Nightmare. The game is geared to go past Normal. If you didn't go past normal you did not complete the game. That's why I want them gone.
Again, not everyone, but people who are lacking any requirement to do anything besides runs. There is no challenge in Diablo. There is only the condition of "monster takes more hits to kill". That's not challenge...
Because difficulty seconds take development time while, in my opinion, adding much less to the game than additional acts would.
Then... don't play the game...?
Hardly. Developing character models, sound effects, storyline, etc. all take far longer than it takes to tweak a few stats.
What if I like driving? I don't want to go get a driver's license. I think it's silly that I have to do what everyone else does to get what I want. This is why I pointed out that you want the game dumbed down. Rather than suck it up and do what it takes to compete, you want the game to cater to your lifestyle. How about you just find others that match your lifestyle? That's what people already do. Don't like Nightmare/Hell? Do Normal duels! Why must everyone be pulled down to your level? Just play the game how you want to play it! Don't dictate to others how it should be done.
Hm, I sense a problem. You said earlier that you virtually never venture into Hell... and now you claim that it's not a challenge. Exactly what character build do you use that makes Hell so incredibly easy? It is certainly beatable, but it is definitely a challenge. Lots of times I see people who make overly specific builds. For instance, lightning trap assassins rape everything, but they're screwed when they run into monsters that are immune to lightning. There is much more to it than "hitting more". I don't quite sense that you've even conquered Hell very many times.
I think you misunderstood me. What I'm saying is that if you did create a full 15 act game for Diablo 2, why not just add the difficulty settings at the end and make it 45 acts long? Those who think 15 acts is plenty will finish the 15 and be done. Those who want to press on with their amazing powers can. I don't think Blizzard shortened Diablo 2 for the sake of difficulty settings. Correct me if I'm wrong.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
You could get end-game items off andy on the hardest mode, thus you could essentially fight anywhere and still be challenged.
Edit: also, didn't they talk about randomized dungeons? Wouldn't that mean that if you redid an ACT, you wouldn't necessarily be doing the same the thing over and over?
Correct me if I'm wrong
Well D2 dungeons were considered random also because on each character and difficulty you did them on they were different.
It still didn't feel very random. Though I'm sure D3 will provide lots more excitement.
They don't need to wipe the levels of difficulty to increase the in-game contents.
They just need to make the higher levels of difficulty more unique.
Like instead of just replaying the entire game with stronger monsters, they could actually add and change contents.
For example, Nightmare and Hell could have monsters that can't be found on normal or monsters in Hell could have new spells they didn't have on normal
They could also add new quests exclusive to Nightmare and Hell and then only exclusive to Hell.
You get the idea
Blizzard!!! dont you dare take out Norm,Nm,Hell
Part of the fun of Diablo was doing Low lvl boss runs and still getting the items you need. I know plenty of people including me Mf'd Andariel and Mephisto in Hell. If you remove Difficultys then il have no reason to revisit eariler boss stages and what not. It lowers the amount of runs your going to do x3. I dont agree with taking the difficulty setting out at all. What i do reccomend though is 6 Acts norm,nm,hell and then add another 3 Acts for the next Expansion.
3 difficulties = shorter main game...
Anyways I don't care it will be a good game no matter what.
Oh yea I forgot they tried to prevent rushing with those limitations.. well pre 1.10 it was possible at least.
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I just don't agree with this or see how you can make this point. Just because there are three dificulties it's irrelevant to the length of the game. D1 was 16 levels. If you were a multiplayer character you could continue on to the other 2 difficulties. That's it though there were 16 levels. For D2 they originally made 4 acts. I think they were planning the 5th from the beginning but I have no insider information. They made the story. It was written to be 4 or 5 acts. Creating the other 2 difficulty levels in no way "shortened" the 5 act story.
Please explain.
Nighmare = different enemy configuration, new items, new runes, penalties, balancing of such - extra development time.
Hell = see above, extra development time.
This means that instead of having like 9 ACTs in of the game (Normal), you get 5 ACTs in every difficulty. Overall longer, but less creative, more repetitive.
The main thing here is balancing, and that takes ages, so please don't tell me making Nightmare and Hell is absolutely free. If you ask for Nightmare and Hell to be even more varied, they would take even more time. >_<
I can see them making difficulties even more varied from one another.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Why would they? Oh hey, lots of games now offer difficulty settings. From FPS to Hack and slash to RPG style games. I know, we will go away from this, which we started using oh so long ago, and inexplicably go back towhen games didn't offer this. Yeah, being behind the times will make sense.