TBH, this game needs a complete rework to be fun for a longer period of time. Usually it goes like: Season start -> players hop in -> they get bored after 4 weeks.
There's literally nothing to do after you get your sets and a few ancients. You just wipe rifts all day and finetune your build a bit, but that's all. Every outstanding and fun build variation gets nerfed into oblivion, leaving the player no choice but sticking to either LoN or sets.
Well, i'm off playing PoE in the meanwhile, hit me up if you wanna join me on euro servers
PoE sucks. i understand its f2p but those prices just to make your character half way decent looking is ridiculous. Not to mention that act 4 was so rushed, worse bosses in a bunched up room. And a lot of builds you just run around spam one ability (firestorm witch is a good example of that) and make sure your auras are on.
I've played PoE for a long time and it's just pretty much the same thing. Yeah it has trading but still one feature is not enough for redemption for it's lack of content.
TBH all that PoE offer is variations to builds that are mostly not even atziri viable.. and if you're truly playing end game (maps) HC groups only want a HANDFUL of builds. I will admit the season challenges are fun.. but PoE is so over-hyped, it's mostly for people who can't move on from an outdated game (d2). D2 was amazing for it's time and d3 has improved on a lot since launch mind you.
Anyway d3 in it's current state offers more things to do than PoE.
Players get bored because they have no attention span.
There is way more than that to d3... pushing solo grifts, farm bounties, tx farming, keywarden farming, ubers, group grifts, seasonal journey, conquests, set dungeons, leveling gems, using cube to improve your character.
And if you're wiping all day you just suck. BTW there is A LOT of builds you can use to farm torment level difficulty. And a few sets that ARE NOT required to have set pieces.
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
To be honest I like some of the suggestions and disagree with others just cause I play solo. But i have to point this out, personally i think the game is in a better state now then it has ever been. Reason is from personal Exp. I usually play a new season level to max get some okay gear some Gr's then quit until the next season. Among the last 4 Seasons combined I've aquired a whopping 380 paragon, this season on the hand ALONE mind you im at 570. just wanted to through that in there.
It's funny but.. there is so much reference to d2 here(wich was a great game.)
We want to add x,y,z,a, option... but in the end the drop rate of item in d3 is just stupid. It would take effi'ing long time to get end game gear in d2. Now in d3 you only have to complet the objective to get the 3 headrig bags and your set to go at tx mostly.
After that... the drop rate are just stupid. Grinding gear doesn't take that long. Reducing the drop rate would increase the satisfaction of grinding for gear.. even if it's not ancient one. Now in d3 It's almost anoying to get leg/set gear that is not ancient.
Yeah? Take a look at the forums, they're filled with viable endgame builds.
Sorry dude, you're downright retarded if you truly believe d3 has
more content to offer. I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy, since i
really love and prefer the gameplay of d3, but what you just wrote is
freaking ridiculous.
PoE has so much more diversity, content skills, just everything - only the combat is kinda meh sometimes.
No there isn't... Do you know what we refer to when we say "viable end game?" Poe is about farming atziri and fucking maps anything else is just a build up to that state. Unlike you I'm not a fanboy. I played PoE extensively and wrote a review for it multiple times... one of my reviews happens to be on steam. The state of the game has always been the same as d3. They tune down a bunch of builds then the HC community plays them (SC talisman too) then they figure out which are the most optimal builds. Last season for example there was ONLY eight viable builds for the top players to push with... EIGHT.
Diversity VS simplicity is a misconstrued argument about a game like Poe, and D2. Like you said all builds are presented on the forums as guides for people to use. Same thing with d2, is in poe. You're still pigeon holed into what builds are more optimal. That's not diversity, that's an illusion of diversity.
That's why the original shit head dev (Jay Wilson) did not include an unnecessarily "diverse" system in d3, because he knew that was one of the many flaws in diablo 2. 95 percent of the community used net builds, while the very small community that did the math made the builds that we see online and use.
But I can tell you're one of those lots of people that think they know it all without doing the research and have no ACTUAL experience with the reality of the end game. Video games is how I pass my time outside of work. I spend 7 hours+ a day on the weekdays and 10+ hours a day on the weekends when I have off from work. I've experienced BOTH the diablo franchise and path of exile.
I gave POE a positive review, I've enjoyed both the games and they both have different things to offer (cons and pros). So before you fly off your chair into an unsightly, opinionated, half-assed, subjective post with little to no examples, while misinterpreting something; maybe you should think before you post.
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
2. Bring back exciting unknown cube recipes (don't necessarily have to bring back runes but we could discuss it).
Unknown is something that does not work any more in 2016. Almost every player would look these up on the internet anyway. While this exists with the portals to the realms of gold and cows, i would not really call it "unknown".
But there are unknown cube recipes! In an interview somebody asked about it, Blizz dev was hinting at it. There could be special portals nobody has discovered yet because not everybody has tried it. Could make for an interesting project.
Larklen: Are there any hidden recipes with the Cube that have yet to be discovered? Kevin Martens: No comment. (This is technically a comment but does it mean anything about recipes? Does it???)
You could let the people that don't want to bot onto their own server so they can see how large their epeen can get without any of the blasphemous and disgusting cheaters to spoil their climb up the ladders. Then they will have no reason to whine when they still can't get to the top.
Just a reminder to everyone: stay nice and friendly. The "PoE vs. D3" discussion ventured into territory that left us no choice but to hand out infractions, and some posts were just blatant flaming and had nothing to do with civilized discussions. For the sake of keeping this thread on topic, we therefore have to ask you to keep PoE out of this thread from this point on and bring the discussion back to OPs initial points. Thanks.
The only things poe does better than d3 in my opinion are the map system which brings variety to the end game farming and the seasonal leagues.
There may be more builds per class than diablo but most of those builds are rather dull where you keep up auras,and spam the same 1 or 2 skills.Trading is a necessity and is pretty time consuming too.I have leveled two characters to levels where you start to farm maps and while the sheer amount of diversity seemed very interesting while levelling up,fun plummeted when i started doing maps.
Diablo in its current state require also a quite amount of time to max out a character.And considering the growing build diversity with each patch i would say the only missing thing is variety in the end game and balancing the solo vs group efficiency.
I am not sure about this "those builds are rather dull where you keep up auras, and spam the same 1-2 skills".
I feel that is a fun way to build from time to time. It is refreshing to not have to worry about pressing 7 buttons in a precise order every 1.5 seconds actually causing pain in your hand. Also, many players seem to enjoy this style of play where you run around like this invincible juggernaut.
I like trading myself, wish D3 still had it in the form of a NORMAL AH, just gold, not REAL MONEY. The AH could have been a tremendous tool for players had the RMAH and people buying gold and success not ruined it.
I do not understand how some can feel it takes quite a bit of time to max a character in D3. I was fully geared/ancient 20 hours into Season 5. I know that I was lucky, but all I had left from that point forward was to augment, which alone is dreadful.
Lastly, agree that efficiency is an issue. They need to find a way to nerf group support, that would pretty much solve everything. I agree that groups should advance quicker than solo. Which is displayed perfectly with the 30% increase in XP when in a 4 man group. But then allowing pure support centered around an infinite scaling dps class was just bad foresight by Blizz.
Nice thread! Sadly don't have time for a full read-through and point by point response, but a couple quick things:
End-game: A way to modify rifts/torment, etc would go a LONG way towards making end-game fun without requiring you to just push another GR. Modified leagues would be cool too, but I think the dropped map style is much more powerful.
Charms: This would be another massive power spike, but since Bizz needs to do a major rebalancing anyway I say I like the idea of really meta talismans that affect each other, have negatives, etc.
Multiplayer: Do NOT add back extra group incentives!!!!!!!!! While I'm perfectly happy to allow trading again, it's already painful enough to try and play the way I prefer - exclusively solo. They just recently fixed some of the worst problems that made multiplayer all but required (XP gear, mob HP), so please don't let it go back to that!
All I hope for next season and the game in general is that they nerf supports into the ground. Diablo group play shouldn't be fucking 3 supports and 1 dps class, it should be 4 dps. Maybe one class who brings more buffs than dmg, but not 3 classes who only bring buffs/debuffs/cc/grouping. It's complete and utter bullshit.
Just look at this season. Meta is Monk/Barb/WD support and Wiz. Shadow DH? Nice try, go back to your 70-80 GRs. LoN DPS WD? LoN Crus DPS? Maybe in 2 man grps.
The whole system is just retarded. Make buffs like the voodoo from the Witch Doctor only for the Witch Doctor. Barb pulling mobs through the entire rift? Gone. Monk and WD keeping them in place basically doing nothing? Gone. One retarded wiz staring at a fucking wall and trying to get his mouse coursor into the right angle? Gone. Imagine how much fun all 4 players in a grp could have, if everyone contributed to the dps.
But hey, it's blizzard. Let's just throw out sets and don't even start to begin what players could do to abuse the shit out of them
Pretty much agree with it all minus 12 and 17, would say no for those.
6, also put people together who vote a lot of people out, keep their no-nonsense and/or trollish types together, away from the people who just want to play.
7, should be a checkbox when making games, sometimes i like going into lower games to help people out, idc if i'm carrying, likewise on a new char i may join with friends willing to carry, if i made a game and unchecked box someone may come in to help if friends aren't online.
8. may fix carrying issues if highest torment you can enter, is also highest grift you've solo'd, if you can do T7 rift solo, you can do T7 group. (can join friends with higher set, and join gfriends grifts higher than you are at, but can't make or join random games unless you've done that solo, also higher than TX would be nice. (do bounties on T15 and get 20+ act cube items. it works, i would like it, after a certain torment they would have to do diminishing returns on exp/gold/increased ancient items.
9. kind of disagree with, but depending on what they did to make campaigns good again, maybe.
11 would be pure awesome. i would add that seasonal would have a separate counter than non-season, and it isn't server specific but over all (in D2 you could get clone on certain servers, i had d2loader and a lot of alt accounts with grushed chars, getting them all on the right server for a spawn hurts...)
18, agree with, but even something as simple as being able to hit w and swap weapons would count for a lot in my books as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Beaten, Strangled, Broken apart.
By those who would...those without heart.
Just a reminder to everyone: stay nice and friendly. The "PoE vs. D3" discussion ventured into territory that left us no choice but to hand out infractions, and some posts were just blatant flaming and had nothing to do with civilized discussions. For the sake of keeping this thread on topic, we therefore have to ask you to keep PoE out of this thread from this point on and bring the discussion back to OPs initial points. Thanks.
Thank you Bagstone, I was just about to do the same thing.
2. Bring back exciting unknown cube recipes (don't necessarily have to bring back runes but we could discuss it).
Unknown is something that does not work any more in 2016. Almost every player would look these up on the internet anyway. While this exists with the portals to the realms of gold and cows, i would not really call it "unknown".
But there are unknown cube recipes! In an interview somebody asked about it, Blizz dev was hinting at it. There could be special portals nobody has discovered yet because not everybody has tried it. Could make for an interesting project.
Larklen: Are there any hidden recipes with the Cube that have yet to be discovered? Kevin Martens: No comment. (This is technically a comment but does it mean anything about recipes? Does it???)
Very interesting! I am not as adventurous or as astute as I used to be to know where to start looking; maybe a gentle nudge from developers would help!
All I hope for next season and the game in general is that they nerf supports into the ground.
I think it is okay for one person to play as a support if they really want to, but not make it a spec mandatory for that class to be included or mandatory to get leaps and bounds ahead of anyone else in terms of progression. Mostly though, the whole triple support thing needs to go bye-bye IMO. I can't imagine being pigeon-holed into a certain spec if I want to see or "participate" in end-game content in D3. Empowering one player instead of empowering all four players feels very exclusive and brings a negative aura into the game.
I like some ideas I'm seeing here. Let's keep this thread up and running but please try to stay on topic by replying to suggestions or adding new ones.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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PoE sucks. i understand its f2p but those prices just to make your character half way decent looking is ridiculous. Not to mention that act 4 was so rushed, worse bosses in a bunched up room. And a lot of builds you just run around spam one ability (firestorm witch is a good example of that) and make sure your auras are on.
I've played PoE for a long time and it's just pretty much the same thing. Yeah it has trading but still one feature is not enough for redemption for it's lack of content.
TBH all that PoE offer is variations to builds that are mostly not even atziri viable.. and if you're truly playing end game (maps) HC groups only want a HANDFUL of builds. I will admit the season challenges are fun.. but PoE is so over-hyped, it's mostly for people who can't move on from an outdated game (d2). D2 was amazing for it's time and d3 has improved on a lot since launch mind you.
Anyway d3 in it's current state offers more things to do than PoE.
Players get bored because they have no attention span.
There is way more than that to d3... pushing solo grifts, farm bounties, tx farming, keywarden farming, ubers, group grifts, seasonal journey, conquests, set dungeons, leveling gems, using cube to improve your character.
And if you're wiping all day you just suck. BTW there is A LOT of builds you can use to farm torment level difficulty. And a few sets that ARE NOT required to have set pieces.
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
To be honest I like some of the suggestions and disagree with others just cause I play solo. But i have to point this out, personally i think the game is in a better state now then it has ever been. Reason is from personal Exp. I usually play a new season level to max get some okay gear some Gr's then quit until the next season. Among the last 4 Seasons combined I've aquired a whopping 380 paragon, this season on the hand ALONE mind you im at 570. just wanted to through that in there.
It's funny but.. there is so much reference to d2 here(wich was a great game.)
We want to add x,y,z,a, option... but in the end the drop rate of item in d3 is just stupid. It would take effi'ing long time to get end game gear in d2. Now in d3 you only have to complet the objective to get the 3 headrig bags and your set to go at tx mostly.
After that... the drop rate are just stupid. Grinding gear doesn't take that long. Reducing the drop rate would increase the satisfaction of grinding for gear.. even if it's not ancient one. Now in d3 It's almost anoying to get leg/set gear that is not ancient.
No there isn't... Do you know what we refer to when we say "viable end game?" Poe is about farming atziri and fucking maps anything else is just a build up to that state. Unlike you I'm not a fanboy. I played PoE extensively and wrote a review for it multiple times... one of my reviews happens to be on steam. The state of the game has always been the same as d3. They tune down a bunch of builds then the HC community plays them (SC talisman too) then they figure out which are the most optimal builds. Last season for example there was ONLY eight viable builds for the top players to push with... EIGHT.
Diversity VS simplicity is a misconstrued argument about a game like Poe, and D2. Like you said all builds are presented on the forums as guides for people to use. Same thing with d2, is in poe. You're still pigeon holed into what builds are more optimal. That's not diversity, that's an illusion of diversity.
That's why the original shit head dev (Jay Wilson) did not include an unnecessarily "diverse" system in d3, because he knew that was one of the many flaws in diablo 2. 95 percent of the community used net builds, while the very small community that did the math made the builds that we see online and use.
But I can tell you're one of those lots of people that think they know it all without doing the research and have no ACTUAL experience with the reality of the end game. Video games is how I pass my time outside of work. I spend 7 hours+ a day on the weekdays and 10+ hours a day on the weekends when I have off from work. I've experienced BOTH the diablo franchise and path of exile.
I gave POE a positive review, I've enjoyed both the games and they both have different things to offer (cons and pros). So before you fly off your chair into an unsightly, opinionated, half-assed, subjective post with little to no examples, while misinterpreting something; maybe you should think before you post.
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
Make D2 HD as fast as possible...
But there are unknown cube recipes! In an interview somebody asked about it, Blizz dev was hinting at it. There could be special portals nobody has discovered yet because not everybody has tried it. Could make for an interesting project.
Patch 2.3.0 Developer Q&A
You could let the people that don't want to bot onto their own server so they can see how large their epeen can get without any of the blasphemous and disgusting cheaters to spoil their climb up the ladders. Then they will have no reason to whine when they still can't get to the top.
Just a reminder to everyone: stay nice and friendly. The "PoE vs. D3" discussion ventured into territory that left us no choice but to hand out infractions, and some posts were just blatant flaming and had nothing to do with civilized discussions. For the sake of keeping this thread on topic, we therefore have to ask you to keep PoE out of this thread from this point on and bring the discussion back to OPs initial points. Thanks.
I am not sure about this "those builds are rather dull where you keep up auras, and spam the same 1-2 skills".
I feel that is a fun way to build from time to time. It is refreshing to not have to worry about pressing 7 buttons in a precise order every 1.5 seconds actually causing pain in your hand. Also, many players seem to enjoy this style of play where you run around like this invincible juggernaut.
I like trading myself, wish D3 still had it in the form of a NORMAL AH, just gold, not REAL MONEY. The AH could have been a tremendous tool for players had the RMAH and people buying gold and success not ruined it.
I do not understand how some can feel it takes quite a bit of time to max a character in D3. I was fully geared/ancient 20 hours into Season 5. I know that I was lucky, but all I had left from that point forward was to augment, which alone is dreadful.
Lastly, agree that efficiency is an issue. They need to find a way to nerf group support, that would pretty much solve everything. I agree that groups should advance quicker than solo. Which is displayed perfectly with the 30% increase in XP when in a 4 man group. But then allowing pure support centered around an infinite scaling dps class was just bad foresight by Blizz.
Nice thread! Sadly don't have time for a full read-through and point by point response, but a couple quick things:
End-game: A way to modify rifts/torment, etc would go a LONG way towards making end-game fun without requiring you to just push another GR. Modified leagues would be cool too, but I think the dropped map style is much more powerful.
Charms: This would be another massive power spike, but since Bizz needs to do a major rebalancing anyway I say I like the idea of really meta talismans that affect each other, have negatives, etc.
Multiplayer: Do NOT add back extra group incentives!!!!!!!!! While I'm perfectly happy to allow trading again, it's already painful enough to try and play the way I prefer - exclusively solo. They just recently fixed some of the worst problems that made multiplayer all but required (XP gear, mob HP), so please don't let it go back to that!
Keep up the fun ideas!
All I hope for next season and the game in general is that they nerf supports into the ground. Diablo group play shouldn't be fucking 3 supports and 1 dps class, it should be 4 dps. Maybe one class who brings more buffs than dmg, but not 3 classes who only bring buffs/debuffs/cc/grouping. It's complete and utter bullshit.
Just look at this season. Meta is Monk/Barb/WD support and Wiz. Shadow DH? Nice try, go back to your 70-80 GRs. LoN DPS WD? LoN Crus DPS? Maybe in 2 man grps.
The whole system is just retarded. Make buffs like the voodoo from the Witch Doctor only for the Witch Doctor. Barb pulling mobs through the entire rift? Gone. Monk and WD keeping them in place basically doing nothing? Gone. One retarded wiz staring at a fucking wall and trying to get his mouse coursor into the right angle? Gone. Imagine how much fun all 4 players in a grp could have, if everyone contributed to the dps.
But hey, it's blizzard. Let's just throw out sets and don't even start to begin what players could do to abuse the shit out of them
Pretty much agree with it all minus 12 and 17, would say no for those.
6, also put people together who vote a lot of people out, keep their no-nonsense and/or trollish types together, away from the people who just want to play.
7, should be a checkbox when making games, sometimes i like going into lower games to help people out, idc if i'm carrying, likewise on a new char i may join with friends willing to carry, if i made a game and unchecked box someone may come in to help if friends aren't online.
8. may fix carrying issues if highest torment you can enter, is also highest grift you've solo'd, if you can do T7 rift solo, you can do T7 group. (can join friends with higher set, and join gfriends grifts higher than you are at, but can't make or join random games unless you've done that solo, also higher than TX would be nice. (do bounties on T15 and get 20+ act cube items. it works, i would like it, after a certain torment they would have to do diminishing returns on exp/gold/increased ancient items.
9. kind of disagree with, but depending on what they did to make campaigns good again, maybe.
11 would be pure awesome. i would add that seasonal would have a separate counter than non-season, and it isn't server specific but over all (in D2 you could get clone on certain servers, i had d2loader and a lot of alt accounts with grushed chars, getting them all on the right server for a spawn hurts...)
18, agree with, but even something as simple as being able to hit w and swap weapons would count for a lot in my books as well.
By those who would...those without heart.
Very interesting! I am not as adventurous or as astute as I used to be to know where to start looking; maybe a gentle nudge from developers would help!
I think it is okay for one person to play as a support if they really want to, but not make it a spec mandatory for that class to be included or mandatory to get leaps and bounds ahead of anyone else in terms of progression. Mostly though, the whole triple support thing needs to go bye-bye IMO. I can't imagine being pigeon-holed into a certain spec if I want to see or "participate" in end-game content in D3. Empowering one player instead of empowering all four players feels very exclusive and brings a negative aura into the game.
I like some ideas I'm seeing here. Let's keep this thread up and running but please try to stay on topic by replying to suggestions or adding new ones.