Since it seems to be difficult for many people to understand the probable impact paragon >800 has had on power creep in the game, I'm wondering if anyone has compiled snapshots of paragon corresponding to leaderboard placements for this era/season. As of patch 2.3, a "Hero Details" snapshot is now available (at least on the in-game boards if not on the website) from the time someone placed on the leaderboards, which shows the build that was used as well as the paragon level of the hero at the time. This would be useful information to demonstrate the effect of main stat inflation due to 800+ paragon, which has been particularly impactful this era/season due to the developers' inexplicable, compounding decisions on xp accumulation mechanics over the past couple seasons.
I would have expected sites like diablo3ladder or diabloprogress to be compiling this information, but unless I missed it they are not. Hopefully Ghostwheel or someone else with knowledge of these sites or some other extant compilation can respond with more information.
Even if there was a correlation, I do not think it would qualify as causation. It makes sense that the players at the top of competitive play would have played a lot resulting in high paragon levels. This does not mean they would not have been at the top even if the paragon level was capped.
If someone is paragon 800 at the end of the season, do you think he will be in top50 ladder if there will be cap at 800? No! Stop this whining everywhere.
I'm not really sure the point of your question, as my thread has nothing to do with answering it, nor did I say anything about implementing a paragon cap. The only one who is whining here is you.
Even if there was a coloration, I do not think it would qualify as causation. It makes sense that the players at the top of competitive play would have played a lot resulting in high paragon levels. This does not mean they would not have been at the top even if the paragon level was capped.
I guess you meant correlation rather than coloration. But anyway, of course there are other variables involved in leaderboard placement, but it's simply naive to think that 1000 main stat per 200 paragon levels past 800 has no substantial causative impact on the ability of someone to clear a greater rift. And paragon level is certainly no determinant of time played or skill level, as in the current era/season it has been incredibly easy to gain paragon levels with very little effort. So if paragon level is no determinant of dedication or skill, why should it have so much impact on someone's ability to compete?
Also, this is an issue impacting the entirety of the competition, not just the "players at the top of competitive play". Last I checked there are 1000 ranks on each current leaderboard and 2000 on each previous era/season board. My original post was about examining the data for every board placement, not just those at the top. And I said nothing about a cap, only examining the data, but your logic is reversible anyway. Just because someone has played a lot and has high paragon level does not mean that person would have been at the top with a paragon cap either. But the players who would have been at the top anyway are not even relevant to the discussion. It's the players that wouldn't place as high without the impact of main stat inflation from paragon that would be the point of the analysis, and it's probable that there are very many of those with the system the way it is - especially with the ease unskilled and inexperienced players have obtained power through paragon this era/season.
If there is indeed no "causation", then why the resistance to even look into it and prove it so or not?
Not sure why you think there is resistance. And I never implied that people with a high paragon would be at the top. My point was simply that I don't know how useful this information would be. If rank was a result of paragon level then sure. But I imagine both are a result of time played. I would be more interested in seeing time played vs paragon vs rank. Also played with groups (2, 3 & 4) vs paragon vs rank.
Having information is always interesting. But if somebody would have to collect this then I would like something a little more telling than paragon vs rank.
In the same sense, if we assumed a paragon cap of 800, the people that play more would still very likely be the ones at the top of the leaderboard, as they would have more opportunity to fish for that perfect GRift.
This is why I think there should in fact be a paragon cap of 800 personally, because those that want it will still get it, but it does not completely demoralize any who cannot play 500 hours each season to the point where they just give up. The new goal for ALL players would be, hit cap of 800, then fish for GRift. Some people may get lucky and get that perfect rift with less time, creating more adversity and parody within the system.
Also, for those who have the opportunity to play ungodly hours each season, stop with this threat you would have nothing to play for, because that is a load of rubbish. You are still going to fight for the top of the leaderboards, because that is why you farm paragon levels currently. You do not farm paragon because it is fun, you farm paragon because currently it is needed to top the leaderboards.
Not sure why you think there is resistance. And I never implied that people with a high paragon would be at the top. My point was simply that I don't know how useful this information would be. If rank was a result of paragon level then sure. But I imagine both are a result of time played. I would be more interested in seeing time played vs paragon vs rank. Also played with groups (2, 3 & 4) vs paragon vs rank.
Having information is always interesting. But if somebody would have to collect this then I would like something a little more telling than paragon vs rank.
The point is that if there really is little correlation between main stat inflation from paragon and board placement, one would expect to see a wide distribution of player levels that is not proportional to rank. And since we know that paragon level itself is not necessarily a substantial determinant of skill, we shouldn't see a very tight correlation between level and rank unless something else significant is going on, namely artificial power creep due to main stat inflation. But I agree with you that time played is an important part of the equation as well, and that can also be extracted from people's leaderboard profiles.
We know that paragon level is not necessarily and perhaps not even often a result of time played, skill level, or relevant experience, because it has been increasingly easy to obtain paragon levels through the current season. I think what you will find is that rank is highly correlated to paragon level, though, which therefore means that the competition is not based only on time played, skill level, and/or relevant experience, as it should be. (This is assuming gear is relatively consistent in the comparison, which it generally will be for anyone placing on the boards. If not, the stat inflation from paragon must be even more pronounced to compensate.)
I'm place 150 SOLO WD(EU) and i'm not even paragon 800. Before was around place 500 with paragon 460. So i'ts not all about the paragon.I'm paragon 840 now and i don't feel much difference. The most importatnt things are the gems in my opinion.
Why people keep talking about paragon cap at this post, but ok. It's a related post anyway.
About gem influence, its a kind of obvious thing. But now, you can be rushed to gem lv 70 whitin an active clan. It 's enough to help you to farm paragon easily now. but to keep upgrading them you will need to rush more and more, gaining even more xp.
Fact, most of players are playing 70 or less GR difficulty, just to farm and upgrade weaker gems. And when they find a good group, rush to up gems. Meke a survey for yourself. Try fo find e group to rush you at low level to upgrade a lv 70 gem. Most, if not everyone, will say to you stack some paragom lv first..."Nooo, paragom lv isnt important... " but it is!
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Since it seems to be difficult for many people to understand the probable impact paragon >800 has had on power creep in the game, I'm wondering if anyone has compiled snapshots of paragon corresponding to leaderboard placements for this era/season. As of patch 2.3, a "Hero Details" snapshot is now available (at least on the in-game boards if not on the website) from the time someone placed on the leaderboards, which shows the build that was used as well as the paragon level of the hero at the time. This would be useful information to demonstrate the effect of main stat inflation due to 800+ paragon, which has been particularly impactful this era/season due to the developers' inexplicable, compounding decisions on xp accumulation mechanics over the past couple seasons.
I would have expected sites like diablo3ladder or diabloprogress to be compiling this information, but unless I missed it they are not. Hopefully Ghostwheel or someone else with knowledge of these sites or some other extant compilation can respond with more information.
Even if there was a correlation, I do not think it would qualify as causation. It makes sense that the players at the top of competitive play would have played a lot resulting in high paragon levels. This does not mean they would not have been at the top even if the paragon level was capped.
Edited; Because spelling hurts.
I guess you meant correlation rather than coloration. But anyway, of course there are other variables involved in leaderboard placement, but it's simply naive to think that 1000 main stat per 200 paragon levels past 800 has no substantial causative impact on the ability of someone to clear a greater rift. And paragon level is certainly no determinant of time played or skill level, as in the current era/season it has been incredibly easy to gain paragon levels with very little effort. So if paragon level is no determinant of dedication or skill, why should it have so much impact on someone's ability to compete?
Also, this is an issue impacting the entirety of the competition, not just the "players at the top of competitive play". Last I checked there are 1000 ranks on each current leaderboard and 2000 on each previous era/season board. My original post was about examining the data for every board placement, not just those at the top. And I said nothing about a cap, only examining the data, but your logic is reversible anyway. Just because someone has played a lot and has high paragon level does not mean that person would have been at the top with a paragon cap either. But the players who would have been at the top anyway are not even relevant to the discussion. It's the players that wouldn't place as high without the impact of main stat inflation from paragon that would be the point of the analysis, and it's probable that there are very many of those with the system the way it is - especially with the ease unskilled and inexperienced players have obtained power through paragon this era/season.
If there is indeed no "causation", then why the resistance to even look into it and prove it so or not?
Not sure why you think there is resistance. And I never implied that people with a high paragon would be at the top. My point was simply that I don't know how useful this information would be. If rank was a result of paragon level then sure. But I imagine both are a result of time played. I would be more interested in seeing time played vs paragon vs rank. Also played with groups (2, 3 & 4) vs paragon vs rank.
Having information is always interesting. But if somebody would have to collect this then I would like something a little more telling than paragon vs rank.
In the same sense, if we assumed a paragon cap of 800, the people that play more would still very likely be the ones at the top of the leaderboard, as they would have more opportunity to fish for that perfect GRift.
This is why I think there should in fact be a paragon cap of 800 personally, because those that want it will still get it, but it does not completely demoralize any who cannot play 500 hours each season to the point where they just give up. The new goal for ALL players would be, hit cap of 800, then fish for GRift. Some people may get lucky and get that perfect rift with less time, creating more adversity and parody within the system.
Also, for those who have the opportunity to play ungodly hours each season, stop with this threat you would have nothing to play for, because that is a load of rubbish. You are still going to fight for the top of the leaderboards, because that is why you farm paragon levels currently. You do not farm paragon because it is fun, you farm paragon because currently it is needed to top the leaderboards.
The point is that if there really is little correlation between main stat inflation from paragon and board placement, one would expect to see a wide distribution of player levels that is not proportional to rank. And since we know that paragon level itself is not necessarily a substantial determinant of skill, we shouldn't see a very tight correlation between level and rank unless something else significant is going on, namely artificial power creep due to main stat inflation. But I agree with you that time played is an important part of the equation as well, and that can also be extracted from people's leaderboard profiles.
We know that paragon level is not necessarily and perhaps not even often a result of time played, skill level, or relevant experience, because it has been increasingly easy to obtain paragon levels through the current season. I think what you will find is that rank is highly correlated to paragon level, though, which therefore means that the competition is not based only on time played, skill level, and/or relevant experience, as it should be. (This is assuming gear is relatively consistent in the comparison, which it generally will be for anyone placing on the boards. If not, the stat inflation from paragon must be even more pronounced to compensate.)
Its hard enough to keep playing after 800 due to boredom, it would be a ghost town if they capped para.
I'm place 150 SOLO WD(EU) and i'm not even paragon 800. Before was around place 500 with paragon 460. So i'ts not all about the paragon.I'm paragon 840 now and i don't feel much difference. The most importatnt things are the gems in my opinion.
Why people keep talking about paragon cap at this post, but ok. It's a related post anyway.
About gem influence, its a kind of obvious thing. But now, you can be rushed to gem lv 70 whitin an active clan. It 's enough to help you to farm paragon easily now. but to keep upgrading them you will need to rush more and more, gaining even more xp.
Fact, most of players are playing 70 or less GR difficulty, just to farm and upgrade weaker gems. And when they find a good group, rush to up gems. Meke a survey for yourself. Try fo find e group to rush you at low level to upgrade a lv 70 gem. Most, if not everyone, will say to you stack some paragom lv first..."Nooo, paragom lv isnt important... " but it is!