Why can't I differ between different kinds of "cheating"? Some have more, some have less impact on competition tho. Thud has a pretty high impact ^This is the magic sentence
Edit: Just go ahead, try to push GR w/o THud, then go again WITH Thud. Then you should be able to understand the ppl who use it, that doesn't mean it also justifies its use tho.
But you are probably a person who never pushed GR (kinda obvious by the way you talk about things, this is no offence and if I am wrong I am sorry) and therefore have no clue about those things.
Actually, in Season 3 I was top 500 Barbarian for about 3 weeks, but I had alot of spare time to play, due to time constraints now, I don't have 8-10 hours to dedicate to a 4 player party to push with daily. As it is, we push GRs once a week for about 6 hours. We don't use THUD, bots or D3 helper. I speak in logic. To get more to the point, the problem I have with your post is the fact that it differentiates between forms of cheating. You don't say that one form of cheating is acceptable but another is not without condoning some form of cheating. That's not logical.
I really can't think of a great metaphor for this without getting graphic. Hmmmm, let's try... You wouldn't say that it was okay for a cop to shoot you for shop lifting, but it's okay if he stabs you.
When it comes to cheating, you're making the assumption that the impact on certain aspects of the game is what matters. Cheating is cheating, if it impacts even 1 section of the game, it's too much. Just because that aspect of the game doesn't bother you, makes it okay? That's basically what you've said.
(Input) Yes, the UI is outdated. Yes, some features of THUD would benefit a large portion of the playerbase. It's still TPS, still against the EULA, and still has more impact than any other program out there. The fact that you say that it's required to make leaderboards proves that point.
I won't take offence to your comments if you don't take any from mine.
As long as programs such as THUD are around (yet not legal to use) the ladder really can't be competitive.
THUD is 100% legal, and blizzard can't do anything about it. Sure they might ban you but that's about it.
What the??? this doesn't even make sense... if it's legal and they can't do anything why would you get banned?
i'll clarify your ideas: ANY 3rd party software is NOT legal and they CAN do something about it, they can ban you and you have to re-buy the game+xpack.
The only problem is that they don't actively do it, if they did ban consistently some ppl would run out of money buying copies every week until they would quit cheating...
In what messes up law system is it illegal to do so? Tell me please. Ask lawyer if it's illegal. You know that companies can't write law right?
Yeah, no one's TOS/EULA can ever over-rule actual law. At worst a developer/company can ban your user account, forcing you to have to just buy the game again and start from scratch. In countries with strong consumer laws, they cant even do that without having to issue you a full refund either.
Blizzard got this little piece of software called Warden* integrated with their games.
Back in 2010 another company called MDY Industries (behind WoWglider) filed a lawsuit against them in the US, on the matter of what warden actually was doing. In the end Blizzard won in court twice, and they are within all the parameters of the laws (and EULA) to scan for software that they choose.
Warden (also known as Warden Client) is an anti-cheating tool integrated in many Blizzard Entertainment games. While the game is running, Warden uses operating system APIs to collect information about certain software running on the user's computer and sends it back to Blizzard servers as hash values to be compared to those of known cheating programs or simply as a yes/no response (whether a cheat was found).
Blizzard got this little piece of software called Warden* integrated with their games.
Back in 2010 another company called MDY Industries (behind WoWglider) filed a lawsuit against them in the US, on the matter of what warden actually was doing. In the end Blizzard won in court twice, and they are within all the parameters of the laws (and EULA) to scan for software that they choose.
Warden (also known as Warden Client) is an anti-cheating tool integrated in many Blizzard Entertainment games. While the game is running, Warden uses operating system APIs to collect information about certain software running on the user's computer and sends it back to Blizzard servers as hash values to be compared to those of known cheating programs or simply as a yes/no response (whether a cheat was found).
On 23 June 2010 Blizzard updated the Warden Anti-Cheat Platform to version 2—named Warden 2.0—with World of Warcraft Patch 3.3.5.
Warden now scans Warcraft II and III game memory space only, with the exception of a few tools.
On 14 December 2010, the Ninth Circuit vacated the summary judgment with respect to the secondary infringement count and the DMCA circumvention count with respect to the static literal elements of content already present on the user's hard drive, but upheld the summary judgment on the DMCA circumvention count with respect to the dynamic nonliteral elements of content provided by the World of Warcraft servers. The summary judgment on the count of tortious contract interference was also vacated, but was remanded to the District Court for further consideration as a finder of fact.
Why do ppl even bother about THud, those who complain about it have never ever pushed leaderboards and even if they will, they won't have success.
Thud is 100% needed if you srsly want to compete, even if you don't want to, you simply HAVE to because everyone else is using it (speaking about top ranks on leaderboards) and the advantage you get from using it is simply too big.
Botting is sth. different tho, lol @ that Redx guy, that was hilarious.
so since most of the top ranks of leaderboards bot, then botting is 100% needed right? i got top 100 on crusader leaderboard in an earlier season without thud or botting fyi.
I also wanted to take a few minutes and talk to you all about botting. First off, I’m genuinely sorry that it has taken so long for you all to see a blue post on this issue. No excuses. I want to assure you that we have been discussing the open letter since it was posted.
To get a couple of things out of the way: yes, botting is absolutely, 100% against the terms of service and an offense that may lead to the closure of your game license. As for how we detect players using this software and actions on those accounts, we simply can’t share information on that front. The more we discuss those two topics, the easier it becomes for bot creators to stay informed of our efforts.
That said, I want to reiterate that the letter and your comments have not fallen on deaf ears. This is an issue that we are actively discussing and addressing. We in Community, along with the Development team, don’t want the spirit of fair play to be tainted by a group of folks refusing to play by the rules.
Kind of the answer we expected, but as I said in post #2 - it doesn't matter what they say, it matters if they act. We'll see when the season ends if they stand up to their word.
From what I've read, the bots are pretty advanced and would be kind of hard to tell the difference between someone actually playing and a bot. While ban waves are nice and always good to see, it doesnt really solve the big problem. It would be nice for them to go after the people who are making the bot programs and shut down the websites at the very least. Cause without doing something along those lines, banning someone just means they have to spend money to get a new account, and then they bot all over again.
I dont play a lot of public games, but i have yet to see a bot in action. Although, i do play HC so that might be why.
Can't wait to see the Q&A after the blizzcon panel where every 2nd question is about banning bots
Same. Yes Blizzard acknowledged it, great, and OF COURSE they saw it cause it was top rated topic EVERYWHERE, now let's see if they actually do anything about it. Sit tight.
"To be clear, that wording was used to ensure that I'm not setting an improper expectation that every person suspected of botting will be banned immediately. Picking and choosing based on factors unrelated to the ToS is not a part of the equation."
The problem with their statement is they went from botting, to suspected of botting (cant find nevalists blue post). There is a step they missed, but covered their grounds. They still choose who to ban and who to not, i have no prob going for streamers who are making money off their ip, its just funny they are the most protected while most obvious.
Botting is directly ruining this game! Like honestly, what is the point for you? Your putting the game on autopilot and pretty much not even playing it; along with skewing the ladder and making it impossible for truly the best to reach the top.
With the buffing of solo play and massacre XP multiplier bots are becoming more valuable in 2.4, because even with XP gear nerfed bots will still offer great advantage to the players who use them.
Let's hope blizzard takes measures against botting ASAP!
Actually, in Season 3 I was top 500 Barbarian for about 3 weeks, but I had alot of spare time to play, due to time constraints now, I don't have 8-10 hours to dedicate to a 4 player party to push with daily. As it is, we push GRs once a week for about 6 hours. We don't use THUD, bots or D3 helper. I speak in logic. To get more to the point, the problem I have with your post is the fact that it differentiates between forms of cheating. You don't say that one form of cheating is acceptable but another is not without condoning some form of cheating. That's not logical.
I really can't think of a great metaphor for this without getting graphic. Hmmmm, let's try... You wouldn't say that it was okay for a cop to shoot you for shop lifting, but it's okay if he stabs you.
When it comes to cheating, you're making the assumption that the impact on certain aspects of the game is what matters. Cheating is cheating, if it impacts even 1 section of the game, it's too much. Just because that aspect of the game doesn't bother you, makes it okay? That's basically what you've said.
(Input) Yes, the UI is outdated. Yes, some features of THUD would benefit a large portion of the playerbase. It's still TPS, still against the EULA, and still has more impact than any other program out there. The fact that you say that it's required to make leaderboards proves that point.
I won't take offence to your comments if you don't take any from mine.
Yeah, no one's TOS/EULA can ever over-rule actual law. At worst a developer/company can ban your user account, forcing you to have to just buy the game again and start from scratch. In countries with strong consumer laws, they cant even do that without having to issue you a full refund either.
Blizzard got this little piece of software called Warden* integrated with their games.
Back in 2010 another company called MDY Industries (behind WoWglider) filed a lawsuit against them in the US, on the matter of what warden actually was doing. In the end Blizzard won in court twice, and they are within all the parameters of the laws (and EULA) to scan for software that they choose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_(software)
Warden (also known as Warden Client) is an anti-cheating tool integrated in many Blizzard Entertainment games. While the game is running, Warden uses operating system APIs to collect information about certain software running on the user's computer and sends it back to Blizzard servers as hash values to be compared to those of known cheating programs or simply as a yes/no response (whether a cheat was found).
Games that use Warden include Diablo II (since patch 1.11), StarCraft (since patch 1.15), StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, Warcraft III (since 2009-04-14, patch 1.23), Diablo III, and World of Warcraft.
On 23 June 2010 Blizzard updated the Warden Anti-Cheat Platform to version 2—named Warden 2.0—with World of Warcraft Patch 3.3.5.
Warden now scans Warcraft II and III game memory space only, with the exception of a few tools.
On 14 December 2010, the Ninth Circuit vacated the summary judgment with respect to the secondary infringement count and the DMCA circumvention count with respect to the static literal elements of content already present on the user's hard drive, but upheld the summary judgment on the DMCA circumvention count with respect to the dynamic nonliteral elements of content provided by the World of Warcraft servers. The summary judgment on the count of tortious contract interference was also vacated, but was remanded to the District Court for further consideration as a finder of fact.
Losing arguement?
You guys really showed them who is boss!!
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
To get a couple of things out of the way: yes, botting is absolutely, 100% against the terms of service and an offense that may lead to the closure of your game license. As for how we detect players using this software and actions on those accounts, we simply can’t share information on that front. The more we discuss those two topics, the easier it becomes for bot creators to stay informed of our efforts.
That said, I want to reiterate that the letter and your comments have not fallen on deaf ears. This is an issue that we are actively discussing and addressing. We in Community, along with the Development team, don’t want the spirit of fair play to be tainted by a group of folks refusing to play by the rules.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/19741203983#2
Kind of the answer we expected, but as I said in post #2 - it doesn't matter what they say, it matters if they act. We'll see when the season ends if they stand up to their word.
From what I've read, the bots are pretty advanced and would be kind of hard to tell the difference between someone actually playing and a bot. While ban waves are nice and always good to see, it doesnt really solve the big problem. It would be nice for them to go after the people who are making the bot programs and shut down the websites at the very least. Cause without doing something along those lines, banning someone just means they have to spend money to get a new account, and then they bot all over again.
I dont play a lot of public games, but i have yet to see a bot in action. Although, i do play HC so that might be why.
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They had time to put that stupid blizzcon spam on the forums but cant respond to a 1000 page post? Whatever
"To be clear, that wording was used to ensure that I'm not setting an improper expectation that every person suspected of botting will be banned immediately. Picking and choosing based on factors unrelated to the ToS is not a part of the equation."
The problem with their statement is they went from botting, to suspected of botting (cant find nevalists blue post). There is a step they missed, but covered their grounds. They still choose who to ban and who to not, i have no prob going for streamers who are making money off their ip, its just funny they are the most protected while most obvious.
Botting is directly ruining this game! Like honestly, what is the point for you? Your putting the game on autopilot and pretty much not even playing it; along with skewing the ladder and making it impossible for truly the best to reach the top.
Such BS, SMH
With the buffing of solo play and massacre XP multiplier bots are becoming more valuable in 2.4, because even with XP gear nerfed bots will still offer great advantage to the players who use them.
Let's hope blizzard takes measures against botting ASAP!
Seems like lag will be fixed in 2.4: "The Server Slam a few weeks back helped develop optimizations to reduce lag, though none of them are live yet"
So this leaves botting as the #1 problematic issue atm.