I guess this is a longshot, but does anyone remember back to patch 1.04 (?)
Back then we pretty much faced the same problem as we do today..
Support "leechers" were running with maximum magic find on all gear slots, while they let the "dps" kill all the monsters for them. And they could justify this with that they were only supporting/tanking for the players which did the damage, and could not kill anything with their setup anyway.
And today we are facing the same dilemma in greater rifts.. (also called speed low grifts or whatnot)
Typically its a support Crusader/Monk running a "support" spec with all +experience gain gear, while they let the "*dps" kill all the monsters for them. And they can justify this with its them that's supporting/opening for the players which does the damage, and can not kill anything with their setup anyway.
* =Wizards/Demon Hunters/Barbarians/Roland Crus/Witch Doctor
The net-effect its exactly the same.. Only a portion of the group, were reaping the maximum benefit of playing in a team..
The solution back in 2012 were to make the magic find shared within the group, to make it equal for all the players.
The chance to get a magic item is averaged among all party members. So if there are 2 people in a party and one member has 100% magic find and the other has 0% you have an average of 50% to find a magic item.
Not the first post on this, not the last, but at least a well worded post with a solution, and not a whining post.
Because of a post on twitter some time ago, I don't think blizzard sees this as a problem, and I don't expect it will be fixed next patch.
Next patch is also going to change perma crowd control, with probably reduction in the mob damage to compensate, making support builds less needed in speedgrifts.
On a personal note, I also don't see the real problem with this. Nothing stops you from going with this setup yourself. Nothing stops you from not playing with "leechers". And most important: most of the time, the leecher will provide the keys. So, he will need to invest time into a 2nd character to run bounties, T6 rifts, trials, and then find a group where he can leech. While the dps'ers can just invite another monk/sader to the party, running speedgrifts all the time reusing their keys.
So, unless your friends/clan/viewers (in case of streamer) want to help you by doing all the work for you farming the keys and letting you leech in the party, I think it somehow results in the same XP/hour if you calculate everything. You also get less bloodshards and probably less drops (because of trials and bounties with lower drop rates, and I *feel* you have more chance for ancients in grifts).
Another "problem" with the solution, is that it might work the other way. In the past for magic find, it were all random drops (or AH). For the full XP builds, you have to craft a hellfire ring (spending time doing key guardians and ubers) and specific sets, using a lot of crafting materials (and time farming them), as well as "destroying" potential good items by rerolling (leorics crown for example, that needs other stats for support than dps).
So, they will have to look into a lot before actually changing all this, because (as I try to show in this post) there is more to running a support "leeching" build than you think, and it might be balanced already (apart from some people that get boosted, but they'll always be there).
magic find's problem was people switching gear before an elite or goblin kill wasnt it? blizzard didnt like the idea of switching gear in general (no more snap shotting).
magic find's problem was people switching gear before an elite or goblin kill wasnt it? blizzard didnt like the idea of switching gear in general (no more snap shotting).
If i remember correctly, that was a other matter which predated the shared magic find..
The fix for that one was that:
You needed to wear mf gear for 5 (?) minutes before it took effect.
The playerbase adjusted to this change, and the full support mf leech was born shortly after..
Oh, never knew they fixed the gearswapping. Are you sure that's done in D3? Because there are people that still do it with gold find when they get the vault. Or does it only apply to MF?
yea they tried the timer thing, shared mf, increasing mf from difficulties to a point where gear mf doesnt matter, and probably more all to curb gear swapping not leeching. theyve never cared about leeching. if your group doesnt want a leech, then vote kick him out. zpds can wear exp gear and be extremely helpful to the group at the same time. that doesnt mean they arent helping the group. i dont see what the issue is here. pure leeching is all mf gear running behind doing no dmg and just picking up items. its sort of like power leveling. zdps with exp gear on has huge utility for the group, especially in mid gr40 speed runs where real gear wouldnt help much at all.
as such, blizz is making zdps less useful because right now they cc a little too well.
dps classes wear exp items for speed runs too. at least i do! i go with as much bonus exp i can afford while still maintaining speed. always ruby in helm. sometimes that helm is leorics. sometimes a hellfire ring is on. sometimes i even drop an emerald for gem of ease if the group is fast enough. theres simply no point in wearing all your real gear if the thing thats using up the most time in the gr is time between packs.
I guess this is a longshot, but does anyone remember back to patch 1.04 (?)
Back then we pretty much faced the same problem as we do today..
Support "leechers" were running with maximum magic find on all gear slots, while they let the "dps" kill all the monsters for them. And they could justify this with that they were only supporting/tanking for the players which did the damage, and could not kill anything with their setup anyway.
And today we are facing the same dilemma in greater rifts.. (also called speed low grifts or whatnot)
Typically its a support Crusader/Monk running a "support" spec with all +experience gain gear, while they let the "*dps" kill all the monsters for them. And they can justify this with its them that's supporting/opening for the players which does the damage, and can not kill anything with their setup anyway.
* =Wizards/Demon Hunters/Barbarians/Roland Crus/Witch Doctor
The net-effect its exactly the same.. Only a portion of the group, were reaping the maximum benefit of playing in a team..
The solution back in 2012 were to make the magic find shared within the group, to make it equal for all the players.
And i would say that this is the best solutions for todays problem also..
I would really like to hear a blues response to this, or anyone else for that matter.
Do you think this is a viable fix for the current meta ?
Not the first post on this, not the last, but at least a well worded post with a solution, and not a whining post.
Because of a post on twitter some time ago, I don't think blizzard sees this as a problem, and I don't expect it will be fixed next patch.
Next patch is also going to change perma crowd control, with probably reduction in the mob damage to compensate, making support builds less needed in speedgrifts.
On a personal note, I also don't see the real problem with this. Nothing stops you from going with this setup yourself. Nothing stops you from not playing with "leechers". And most important: most of the time, the leecher will provide the keys. So, he will need to invest time into a 2nd character to run bounties, T6 rifts, trials, and then find a group where he can leech. While the dps'ers can just invite another monk/sader to the party, running speedgrifts all the time reusing their keys.
So, unless your friends/clan/viewers (in case of streamer) want to help you by doing all the work for you farming the keys and letting you leech in the party, I think it somehow results in the same XP/hour if you calculate everything. You also get less bloodshards and probably less drops (because of trials and bounties with lower drop rates, and I *feel* you have more chance for ancients in grifts).
Another "problem" with the solution, is that it might work the other way. In the past for magic find, it were all random drops (or AH). For the full XP builds, you have to craft a hellfire ring (spending time doing key guardians and ubers) and specific sets, using a lot of crafting materials (and time farming them), as well as "destroying" potential good items by rerolling (leorics crown for example, that needs other stats for support than dps).
So, they will have to look into a lot before actually changing all this, because (as I try to show in this post) there is more to running a support "leeching" build than you think, and it might be balanced already (apart from some people that get boosted, but they'll always be there).
magic find's problem was people switching gear before an elite or goblin kill wasnt it? blizzard didnt like the idea of switching gear in general (no more snap shotting).
If i remember correctly, that was a other matter which predated the shared magic find..
The fix for that one was that:
You needed to wear mf gear for 5 (?) minutes before it took effect.
The playerbase adjusted to this change, and the full support mf leech was born shortly after..
Oh, never knew they fixed the gearswapping. Are you sure that's done in D3? Because there are people that still do it with gold find when they get the vault. Or does it only apply to MF?
yea they tried the timer thing, shared mf, increasing mf from difficulties to a point where gear mf doesnt matter, and probably more all to curb gear swapping not leeching. theyve never cared about leeching. if your group doesnt want a leech, then vote kick him out. zpds can wear exp gear and be extremely helpful to the group at the same time. that doesnt mean they arent helping the group. i dont see what the issue is here. pure leeching is all mf gear running behind doing no dmg and just picking up items. its sort of like power leveling. zdps with exp gear on has huge utility for the group, especially in mid gr40 speed runs where real gear wouldnt help much at all.
as such, blizz is making zdps less useful because right now they cc a little too well.
dps classes wear exp items for speed runs too. at least i do! i go with as much bonus exp i can afford while still maintaining speed. always ruby in helm. sometimes that helm is leorics. sometimes a hellfire ring is on. sometimes i even drop an emerald for gem of ease if the group is fast enough. theres simply no point in wearing all your real gear if the thing thats using up the most time in the gr is time between packs.
Blizzard will do something against perma stun, so the support role will dissapear anyway.
Which limits viable builds even more. Great move...
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841