Hey guys, today I want to go over and showcase the mechanics of the 'new' Bastions of Will - Focus & Restraint rings coming in patch 2.2. This should be a retroactive change since they're set (green) items, but the tooltip is a bit confusing. The set provides a 50% damage bonus as a separate damage multiplier - not reflected anywhere - to both your generator and spender. However, you have to attack with your generator to get the spender buff and vice versa. Enjoy & discuss!
If this is true, the text is so wrong, and the set is bad indeed.
Could you try this out with other rings, that would give you around the same stats, to see if the seem numbers show up?
What I would expect to happen: you cast a generator skill, the buff becomes active, and your damage is calculated. Same for a spender. This would make it look like it does only work for the other (generator for spender, spender for generator), as the buff for the "same type" is always up.
This would mean, if you have same sheet dps, crit chance and crit damage, without the set, your weapon throw would crit around 5.5m and slam for 15m.
If those numbers would show up, it would make this set very strong, as you get 2 extra multipliers for 50%, if you cycle your skills, giving a 125% damage increase.
I hope you still have a chance to do the additional test, and provide feedback, as I really look forward to this set.
In the video you start off by saying, "My crits for XXX skill should be ~20 million." That's great! Why not use two other crappy rings as placeholders for a control test? Something that won't affect the damage like an Oculus Ring and a Leoric's Signet.
You make quality videos. It's not that I don't trust your judgment or observations... it's just that you could demonstrate the set a lot better by using two other rings beforehand.
You should understand some mechanics before making videos. Now a lot of ppl will see the misinformation that you said in your video and believe that the rings are bad while it's the completely opposite. Please take the video down and something else in general because this isn't the first time you make a video and you fail at presenting how things work. You have to realize that it's quality that matters and not quantity. Making videos every day just to get the clicks won't take you far if said videos suck.
why would he need to showcase it without the rings ?
He show you the damage without the passive and with the passive ...
I don't understand your question proccer?
A true base would be without either ring equipped and then showing us the damage numbers. From his first attack he had both equipped so its hard to see the difference the rings make. As MannerCookie and several others have pointed out already he was playing with part of the multiplicative buff and didn't know it.
My thinking is along the lines of RiffSphere above: the original value would have crit for ~5 million for Weapon Throw and ~15 million for Slam.
Edit: Here's a forum post link indicating the error in testing Here.
The BiS DPS rings of 2.2 and they are "dismissed" as useless rings, lol. bad video is bad, misinformation all the way, they buff ALL your dmg, not just spender and primary, they even buff conduit dmg and procs like thunderfury, really crappy job with the lack of research, how many people will watch this and gimp themselves because of wrong assumptions...
The FnR bonus affects all damage and not just spenders or generators, it's all your dmg,pets,leg. rings,conduit etc etc. Just forget you saw this video.
His conclusion isn't wrong though that it will mainly be useful for specs that use a spender and a generator. For specs that do not, other ring sets will most likely be better.
His conclusion isn't wrong though that it will mainly be useful for specs that use a spender and a generator. For specs that do not, other ring sets will most likely be better.
His conclusion is wrong, as a wizard I lose one skill slot and 6 pieces of gear to achive 150% dmg boost (Tals with one stack) and the inclusion of a signature spell/generator for another 125 % dmg boost (F/R) on top possible 600% would be a dream. Fortunately, Bastion of Will is very real and prob too good to pass (even if u are only using one part of the bonus).
I think those are two separate arguments. A well rolled SOJ+a double unity combo, offers similar damage and survivability if you are not using both sides of the damage increase. That's his point. He isn't saying that the set isn't good or bis for some builds. I think there is no question that they will be, he even mentions that for certain monks this will be the case. His point is that they will not be BIS for every build and I agree even if his test wasn't pure.
Single Player and Multieplayer do have different gearing choices and consideration, no argument there. Metal tends to focus on the single player aspects of this game, which should be understood when viewing his vids. His point is not really a judgement on weather focus and restraint is good, his point is that it's not going to be best for every build. I don't understand why people object to that fact so passionately when it was Blizzards goal to promote ring options in this patch. I think there are also going to be strong cases for the theme rings to fit into strong builds, which no one has even mentioned here yet. TMF, LMF, RoTZ, just to name a few all have the potential to play important parts of successful builds.
Single player or not, he says the buff from generators only boost spenders, and the buff from spenders only boosts generators. Others make the point that, because of the way he tested, he does not see the buff they do on themselve (generator on generator, spender on spender). This makes him conclude the rings are bad, because he is missing a 50% damage multiplier.
The fact that there are other options, that might or might not be better for a certain setup and build, does not change the fact that he says the rings are bad while with proper testing they are good.
For the record, I agree the rings are good. I didn't get from the video that he thought they were bad, just that he didn't they were the best for every situation.
I think the discussion is pretty constructive, at least I feel like it is not bashing.
Many discussions with this amount of replies, would have many bad words in them by now.
It is in fact true that there might be a bit too much repetition, saying it is incorrect once, informing people that make wrong assumptions in post, should be enough.
However, I must say I like the test videos, and I like how sometimes errors slip in, just so you don't "assume" how something works.
I hope an update will correct this, but I expect nothing less
Hold on guys ... I appreciate the feedback but if the buff affects all damage, shouldn't I be doing more damage on the 2nd hit with either my generator or spender?? Please point out the flaw in my logic and I will retest. First hit 8m. Second hit = 8m. Shouldn't it be 12m?
I tested both, rotating all possibilities (on barb) in 2x2 fashion. I'd LOVE to retest right now but PTR is down (possibly permanently).
If someone can show me proof via VIDEO as of 4/5/15 or later, I'd love to see it and will retest as necessary and do a follow-up.
The reason Mikhail was confused is he didn't test his skills with the exact same stats without the ring set at all.
Since my testing showed that the hit that triggers the buff is also boosted by it, he was always seeing the 50% damage added on to his initial hit with either skill (you can see in his video when he tries to baseline his skill he waits for the other buff to fall off).
This means his baselines were spenders with the 50% spender buff and generators with the 50% generator buff.
Hold on guys ... I appreciate the feedback but if the buff affects all damage, shouldn't I be doing more damage on the 2nd hit with either my generator or spender?? Please point out the flaw in my logic and I will retest. First hit 8m. Second hit = 8m. Shouldn't it be 12m?
The first quote already explained it to you. The buff applies immediately and affects the hit that applies it. If you had the same stats with generic rings then you would be hitting for ~5.3m but the buff raised it to 8m.
Hold on guys ... I appreciate the feedback but if the buff affects all damage, shouldn't I be doing more damage on the 2nd hit with either my generator or spender?? Please point out the flaw in my logic and I will retest. First hit 8m. Second hit = 8m. Shouldn't it be 12m?
I tested both, rotating all possibilities (on barb) in 2x2 fashion. I'd LOVE to retest right now but PTR is down (possibly permanently).
If someone can show me proof via VIDEO as of 4/5/15 or later, I'd love to see it and will retest as necessary and do a follow-up.
Your first hit already has the +50% buff applied to it. Blizz went through some skills that increase damage and fixed them so the initial activation/cast also gets the damage buff. FnR is included, apparently.
Hold on guys ... I appreciate the feedback but if the buff affects all damage, shouldn't I be doing more damage on the 2nd hit with either my generator or spender?? Please point out the flaw in my logic and I will retest. First hit 8m. Second hit = 8m. Shouldn't it be 12m?
I tested both, rotating all possibilities (on barb) in 2x2 fashion. I'd LOVE to retest right now but PTR is down (possibly permanently).
If someone can show me proof via VIDEO as of 4/5/15 or later, I'd love to see it and will retest as necessary and do a follow-up.
This has been probably the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen created by you either on dfans or on bnet forums since I've started playing D3 again that have had a lot of people "trolling" you because of the inaccurate information presented and the tone of your posts. I've skimmed through a few of the barb threads for the luls but never bothered to respond since there was already plenty of people pointing out errors.
You have to figure at some point that all the hate your getting is for a reason and not just jealousy as you are quick to conclude.
Even now you have two different threads on PTR feedback as well as dfans full of people telling you that your testing is flawed and your information is incorrect but somehow you are still skeptical and want to be proven wrong.
I've personally done extensive testing on PTR, I think I've seen you comment on one of my videos so I'm sure your well aware of some of the things I've done so I won't whip my gigantic E-peen out on you. However, I can tell you for a fact that F+R will be BIS for Crusader, one of if not the best ring setup for Barb, the best setup for DH, and not sure about INT classes. If this bit of information plus all the people telling you that your testing is incorrect isn't enough for you to understand that you may in fact be wrong, not sure what will convince you.
There's more than enough information on how your testing was flawed posted by others, you should be able to figure it out.
Not to belittle you or your content, this is just some friendly advice from one content creator to another for the same community of players.
If your going to be defensive and adamant about your views/videos, you should damn well make sure your information is correct before publishing anything.
I learnt long ago when I created my first videos that if your information is incorrect you will quickly get torn apart by some of our lovely Diablo community members who live off of telling Youtubers and Streamers how bad they are at this game.
Hey guys, today I want to go over and showcase the mechanics of the 'new' Bastions of Will - Focus & Restraint rings coming in patch 2.2. This should be a retroactive change since they're set (green) items, but the tooltip is a bit confusing. The set provides a 50% damage bonus as a separate damage multiplier - not reflected anywhere - to both your generator and spender. However, you have to attack with your generator to get the spender buff and vice versa. Enjoy & discuss!
https://youtu.be/Ra0hrsSH3y4
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
If this is true, the text is so wrong, and the set is bad indeed.
Could you try this out with other rings, that would give you around the same stats, to see if the seem numbers show up?
What I would expect to happen: you cast a generator skill, the buff becomes active, and your damage is calculated. Same for a spender. This would make it look like it does only work for the other (generator for spender, spender for generator), as the buff for the "same type" is always up.
This would mean, if you have same sheet dps, crit chance and crit damage, without the set, your weapon throw would crit around 5.5m and slam for 15m.
If those numbers would show up, it would make this set very strong, as you get 2 extra multipliers for 50%, if you cycle your skills, giving a 125% damage increase.
I hope you still have a chance to do the additional test, and provide feedback, as I really look forward to this set.
This information is incorrect.
The rings are multiplicative, 50% x 50% and affects the damage of ALL your damage sources.
They are the highest performing rings for the Softcore meta for patch 2.2 as it stands.
Were the best before the nerf, and still are the best.
Might want to take the video down if it's just an explanation of what you wrote in this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/mannercookie
http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie
In the video you start off by saying, "My crits for XXX skill should be ~20 million." That's great! Why not use two other crappy rings as placeholders for a control test? Something that won't affect the damage like an Oculus Ring and a Leoric's Signet.
You make quality videos. It's not that I don't trust your judgment or observations... it's just that you could demonstrate the set a lot better by using two other rings beforehand.
You should understand some mechanics before making videos. Now a lot of ppl will see the misinformation that you said in your video and believe that the rings are bad while it's the completely opposite. Please take the video down and something else in general because this isn't the first time you make a video and you fail at presenting how things work. You have to realize that it's quality that matters and not quantity. Making videos every day just to get the clicks won't take you far if said videos suck.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Fordragon-2878/hero/9763301
A true base would be without either ring equipped and then showing us the damage numbers. From his first attack he had both equipped so its hard to see the difference the rings make. As MannerCookie and several others have pointed out already he was playing with part of the multiplicative buff and didn't know it.
My thinking is along the lines of RiffSphere above: the original value would have crit for ~5 million for Weapon Throw and ~15 million for Slam.
Edit: Here's a forum post link indicating the error in testing Here.
The BiS DPS rings of 2.2 and they are "dismissed" as useless rings, lol. bad video is bad, misinformation all the way, they buff ALL your dmg, not just spender and primary, they even buff conduit dmg and procs like thunderfury, really crappy job with the lack of research, how many people will watch this and gimp themselves because of wrong assumptions...
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
The FnR bonus affects all damage and not just spenders or generators, it's all your dmg,pets,leg. rings,conduit etc etc. Just forget you saw this video.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Fordragon-2878/hero/9763301
His conclusion isn't wrong though that it will mainly be useful for specs that use a spender and a generator. For specs that do not, other ring sets will most likely be better.
His conclusion is wrong, as a wizard I lose one skill slot and 6 pieces of gear to achive 150% dmg boost (Tals with one stack) and the inclusion of a signature spell/generator for another 125 % dmg boost (F/R) on top possible 600% would be a dream. Fortunately, Bastion of Will is very real and prob too good to pass (even if u are only using one part of the bonus).
I think those are two separate arguments. A well rolled SOJ+a double unity combo, offers similar damage and survivability if you are not using both sides of the damage increase. That's his point. He isn't saying that the set isn't good or bis for some builds. I think there is no question that they will be, he even mentions that for certain monks this will be the case. His point is that they will not be BIS for every build and I agree even if his test wasn't pure.
Single Player and Multieplayer do have different gearing choices and consideration, no argument there. Metal tends to focus on the single player aspects of this game, which should be understood when viewing his vids. His point is not really a judgement on weather focus and restraint is good, his point is that it's not going to be best for every build. I don't understand why people object to that fact so passionately when it was Blizzards goal to promote ring options in this patch. I think there are also going to be strong cases for the theme rings to fit into strong builds, which no one has even mentioned here yet. TMF, LMF, RoTZ, just to name a few all have the potential to play important parts of successful builds.
Single player or not, he says the buff from generators only boost spenders, and the buff from spenders only boosts generators. Others make the point that, because of the way he tested, he does not see the buff they do on themselve (generator on generator, spender on spender). This makes him conclude the rings are bad, because he is missing a 50% damage multiplier.
The fact that there are other options, that might or might not be better for a certain setup and build, does not change the fact that he says the rings are bad while with proper testing they are good.
For the record, I agree the rings are good. I didn't get from the video that he thought they were bad, just that he didn't they were the best for every situation.
amazing attitude people, even if you were right, bashing on a person who takes his time to make videos for other people to LEARN from should not be ok
you could either say something constructive to help him out or get the f*ck out.
I think the discussion is pretty constructive, at least I feel like it is not bashing.
Many discussions with this amount of replies, would have many bad words in them by now.
It is in fact true that there might be a bit too much repetition, saying it is incorrect once, informing people that make wrong assumptions in post, should be enough.
However, I must say I like the test videos, and I like how sometimes errors slip in, just so you don't "assume" how something works.
I hope an update will correct this, but I expect nothing less
Hold on guys ... I appreciate the feedback but if the buff affects all damage, shouldn't I be doing more damage on the 2nd hit with either my generator or spender?? Please point out the flaw in my logic and I will retest. First hit 8m. Second hit = 8m. Shouldn't it be 12m?
I tested both, rotating all possibilities (on barb) in 2x2 fashion. I'd LOVE to retest right now but PTR is down (possibly permanently).
If someone can show me proof via VIDEO as of 4/5/15 or later, I'd love to see it and will retest as necessary and do a follow-up.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
The first quote already explained it to you. The buff applies immediately and affects the hit that applies it. If you had the same stats with generic rings then you would be hitting for ~5.3m but the buff raised it to 8m.
Your first hit already has the +50% buff applied to it. Blizz went through some skills that increase damage and fixed them so the initial activation/cast also gets the damage buff. FnR is included, apparently.
This has been probably the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen created by you either on dfans or on bnet forums since I've started playing D3 again that have had a lot of people "trolling" you because of the inaccurate information presented and the tone of your posts. I've skimmed through a few of the barb threads for the luls but never bothered to respond since there was already plenty of people pointing out errors.
You have to figure at some point that all the hate your getting is for a reason and not just jealousy as you are quick to conclude.
Even now you have two different threads on PTR feedback as well as dfans full of people telling you that your testing is flawed and your information is incorrect but somehow you are still skeptical and want to be proven wrong.
I've personally done extensive testing on PTR, I think I've seen you comment on one of my videos so I'm sure your well aware of some of the things I've done so I won't whip my gigantic E-peen out on you. However, I can tell you for a fact that F+R will be BIS for Crusader, one of if not the best ring setup for Barb, the best setup for DH, and not sure about INT classes. If this bit of information plus all the people telling you that your testing is incorrect isn't enough for you to understand that you may in fact be wrong, not sure what will convince you.
There's more than enough information on how your testing was flawed posted by others, you should be able to figure it out.
Not to belittle you or your content, this is just some friendly advice from one content creator to another for the same community of players.
If your going to be defensive and adamant about your views/videos, you should damn well make sure your information is correct before publishing anything.
I learnt long ago when I created my first videos that if your information is incorrect you will quickly get torn apart by some of our lovely Diablo community members who live off of telling Youtubers and Streamers how bad they are at this game.
http://www.youtube.com/mannercookie
http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie