Hi guys.. my first thread here despite lingering around for years.
I think we all know the nerf to IK 6pc 500% damage boost is coming but in what way and by how much, is enough?
GR 57 in PTR was reasonably easy using IK6 and I am pretty sure it is not going to live as-is with all the cries and nerf-calls coming from non-barbs in forum, I am concerned that the nerf bat will hit really hard.. to oblivion.
Before it is too late, I wrote a suggestion to balance the set and hope to hear your feedback.
So do we nerf the 500% damage or not?
We can reduce it to some absurd level such as 100-200 to pull down the level cap of multi-set barbs and at same time reduce non-multi-set barb using other creative builds down from 45-50 to 35-40. This is an easy fix and barbs are back to cookie cutter multi-set build.
Or we have an equally easy fix that still bring down the cap to 50-52 while enabling other builds to achieve the same result. Here is my suggestion:
Immortal King's Call 6pc Bonus :
Increase the damage of Primary Skills + ANCIENTS + ANCIENT Spear + Hammer of the ANCIENTS by 20% for every 10 fury you have when Call of the ANCIENTS and Wrath of the Berserker are both active.
This goes hand in hand with these skills which gives your bonus when you are more furious. (i.e. HotA=crit, AS=boulder toss) and this will encourage usage of these most unpopular skills of barbs. But to make up for this huge overall damage loss, there should be a couple of tweaks.
Full IK set bonus should be from 5 pc just like Raekors. So player can be creative with other legendaries. Also the 4pc IK set should increase fury gen by 10 not 2 (align it with two set Bulkathos weapon sets).
What about Avalanche and Seismic Slam?
Personally, I would like to see these enhanced using soon-to-come 6pc Earth set. Then all we need is various single legendary affixes to make the mechanic of skills fun and dynamic. But I can see people may want to include Seismic Slam skill in IK set bonus but not sure how it will perform with the Fury of the Vanished Peak.
Increase the damage of Primary Skills + ANCIENTS + ANCIENT Spear + Hammer of the ANCIENTS by 20% for every 10 fury you have when Call of the ANCIENTS and Wrath of the Berserker are both active."
Stupidest idea I've seen for a while, extremely weak and extremely clucky.
It should be nerf'd. I put on no new gear, just stuff I had from before and did 49 in under 9 mins, without even optimizing my gear or skills. The highest solo barb clear is 8 levels above any other class last time I checked.
It's fun though, so I hope they keep the concept. Just need to dial in the numbers a bit.
I dont think they will nerf IK. Blizzard should buff all the other shitty classes like Monk, Crusader, Witch Doctor and Wizard. No need to nerf Barbs IK set. just buff the others..
This.
I love how anytime any class starts approaching DH DPS people start screaming for nerfs. Here's a thought, how about we let everyone DPS at that level.
For people saying that the nerf to 100% is too low: you would be able to clear GR 54-55 with that.
For the math:
Damage with IK atm = 600% (100% + 500%)
Damage with IK (considering 6pc is 100% bonus) = 200% (100% + 100%)
Effective nerf = 600/200 = 3 times less damage
Now monster health goes 17% higher at every grift level. Meaning that a difference of 7 levels makes for a difference of nearly 3 times the health
So if barbs can clear GR61 on PTR, they'd be able to clear GR61-7 = GR54 with a 100% IK 6pc
By the way no IK 6pc would probably be able to clear 49 or higher.
Having "only" a 100% would keep barbs in a good position while retaining the build diversity the barb has atm. It would even make the barb the best class in solo with wiz.
So people, stop crying about 6pc being as "low" as 100%, it still is pretty good (even though all runes perma wotb + perma ancient is already very good for a 4pc).
The issue here is that there are a couple of very specific builds that are able to do those high Grifts, and then a bunch that fall closer in line with other classes. Those builds usually revolve heavily around a skill that already has a set (FC) and it's complementary legendary. Also, because it's non-specific, that 500% ends up counting for leg gems and stuff, which other set bonuses do not.
If they narrow the bonus to some skills (SS. HotA, AS, CotA), then we can see if 500% is still to much. If it is, my bet is that it can be tune to like, 400% and be fine. I ran a HotA build with the new IK, and while it was good (with really good gear), it certainly didn't feel much stronger than M6 (which is the build I use to compare to).
This gives the set some flexibility, but reduces the damage of skills that have sets (WW, FC) so that IK just isn't better with them.
The other option is to break the bonus into 2 bullets:
- While WotB and CotA are active, gain 100% increased damage
- While WotB and CotA are active, also gain 300-400% increased damage from SS, HotA, AS, and CotA.
This maintains some flexibility, while bringing the outlier builds closer in tune,
Just buff the other classes to the point that they can actually compete with each other, besides whats the point of having something like 80+ GR keys in the game if we can never reach it other then some sort of exploit.
And instead of always tweaking sets, they should just make it perfect for once and buff things outside of items, like allowing people to buff their skills or allow people to craft gems/bonuses that you can add to items.
You've missed out on the entire point of Grifts. They are infinite, and we're not supposed to be able to do em all. it's ok if we can't do Grift 80, that doesn't mean anything is broken.
For people saying that the nerf to 100% is too low: you would be able to clear GR 54-55 with that.
For the math:
Damage with IK atm = 600% (100% + 500%)
Damage with IK (considering 6pc is 100% bonus) = 200% (100% + 100%)
Effective nerf = 600/200 = 3 times less damage
Now monster health goes 17% higher at every grift level. Meaning that a difference of 7 levels makes for a difference of nearly 3 times the health
So if barbs can clear GR61 on PTR, they'd be able to clear GR61-7 = GR54 with a 100% IK 6pc
By the way no IK 6pc would probably be able to clear 49 or higher.
Having "only" a 100% would keep barbs in a good position while retaining the build diversity the barb has atm. It would even make the barb the best class in solo with wiz.
So people, stop crying about 6pc being as "low" as 100%, it still is pretty good (even though all runes perma wotb + perma ancient is already very good for a 4pc).
They need to find a "sweet spot", which not as easy as just to sum up % of damage and say, hey if you can do gr60 like this, we will do 300% damage isntead of 500% and you will do gr50 with that, which we are ok with.
Monster HP scale with 17% above the previous grift level not 17% of monsters base HP value. WHich means that if you do something like lover the damage on barb multiplier to 100% from 500%, you may end up in doing grift 35 instead of 50( which i belive is somewhat targeted area they want to accomplish.
So when you assume that every 7 levels thats 3x the health of monster, that only applies to certain grift levels, for example from GR 40 - 47 but wont be true anymore from lets say lv50-57 because growth gets exponential like: 100 + 17% = 117, but 117+17% = 136,89 ( and not 134 as you assumed).
And for semi-offtopic, i liked the "old" 2.2 IK bonus better, since we would finally have a potential that wouldn't be dependant on CDR, since perma beserker and new pants or bracers whatever they decide to make...i know it is less damage than what it is now but it is so fun imho to be able to make almost any build worthvile since perma beserker could possibly make it viable.
Yeah. It has a lot to do with the double dipping on leg gems, bloodshed, and slaughter.
There are a few things that probably weren't intended to benefit from the 500% bonus that are, and that really skews how much damage the set does. Once those things get fixed, then players can test again and see if it's still out of tune.
It's certainly broken in it's current state. I just don't think that a change from 500% to 100% is the answer. I think it's more about finding some of the things that are benefiting that shouldn't be, and then checking again. My guess is that at least basic builds (WW, SS, HotA, AS) will end up being more or less in tune at that point. If the set got nerfed to 100%, many of the spenders just wouldn't be worth it.
Just buff the other classes to the point that they can actually compete with each other, besides whats the point of having something like 80+ GR keys in the game if we can never reach it other then some sort of exploit.
And instead of always tweaking sets, they should just make it perfect for once and buff things outside of items, like allowing people to buff their skills or allow people to craft gems/bonuses that you can add to items.
You've missed out on the entire point of Grifts. They are infinite, and we're not supposed to be able to do em all. it's ok if we can't do Grift 80, that doesn't mean anything is broken.
Yeah i know, but to be stuck at GR40~50 for most people for many months/seasons is kind of boring imo.
Some progression would be nice.
Grift 40-50 isn't NEAR most people, and even without having actual numbers I think I can safely say it's less than 1% of the D3 playerbase. This means there IS progression available for the vast, overwhelming majority of players. Asking for even more buffs just to get to Grift 80 won't actually do anything besides put the top players in the same position. It's like asking for another Tier higher than mythic for the less than 1% of guilds in WoW who have cleared mythic, it just doesn't make sense when there's hundreds of thousands to millions of players who have yet to achieve that high.
Remember, Grifts aren't a thing we're supposed to be able to beat. It's just a meter to see how high we can get, always knowing they never stop and there will always be a point at which players get 1 shot, and killing one trash mob takes the entire 15 minutes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hi guys.. my first thread here despite lingering around for years.
I think we all know the nerf to IK 6pc 500% damage boost is coming but in what way and by how much, is enough?
GR 57 in PTR was reasonably easy using IK6 and I am pretty sure it is not going to live as-is with all the cries and nerf-calls coming from non-barbs in forum, I am concerned that the nerf bat will hit really hard.. to oblivion.
Before it is too late, I wrote a suggestion to balance the set and hope to hear your feedback.
So do we nerf the 500% damage or not?
We can reduce it to some absurd level such as 100-200 to pull down the level cap of multi-set barbs and at same time reduce non-multi-set barb using other creative builds down from 45-50 to 35-40. This is an easy fix and barbs are back to cookie cutter multi-set build.
Or we have an equally easy fix that still bring down the cap to 50-52 while enabling other builds to achieve the same result. Here is my suggestion:
This goes hand in hand with these skills which gives your bonus when you are more furious. (i.e. HotA=crit, AS=boulder toss) and this will encourage usage of these most unpopular skills of barbs. But to make up for this huge overall damage loss, there should be a couple of tweaks.
Full IK set bonus should be from 5 pc just like Raekors. So player can be creative with other legendaries. Also the 4pc IK set should increase fury gen by 10 not 2 (align it with two set Bulkathos weapon sets).
What about Avalanche and Seismic Slam?
Personally, I would like to see these enhanced using soon-to-come 6pc Earth set. Then all we need is various single legendary affixes to make the mechanic of skills fun and dynamic. But I can see people may want to include Seismic Slam skill in IK set bonus but not sure how it will perform with the Fury of the Vanished Peak.
Discussions at the official forum: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16647914637
Also looking forward to your thoughts on the state of current set bonus. (Poll at the top)
Personally, if they just nerf the damage boost down to 100-200%, I am just gonna go for other sets and combine 2-4 piece bonus of IK.
That would go against the whole point of them making a 6pc set would it?
Maybe 100+ more less nerf. %500 crazy %300+~ fine..
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Alcuin-1510/hero/58424500
Just change it to 300-400.
"
Increase the damage of Primary Skills + ANCIENTS + ANCIENT Spear + Hammer of the ANCIENTS by 20% for every 10 fury you have when Call of the ANCIENTS and Wrath of the Berserker are both active."
Stupidest idea I've seen for a while, extremely weak and extremely clucky.
It should be nerf'd. I put on no new gear, just stuff I had from before and did 49 in under 9 mins, without even optimizing my gear or skills. The highest solo barb clear is 8 levels above any other class last time I checked.
It's fun though, so I hope they keep the concept. Just need to dial in the numbers a bit.
This.
I love how anytime any class starts approaching DH DPS people start screaming for nerfs. Here's a thought, how about we let everyone DPS at that level.
The 6x multiplier will likely be reduced, but otherwise the 'new new' IK set is awesome mechanically and synergistically with other sets.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
The issue here is that there are a couple of very specific builds that are able to do those high Grifts, and then a bunch that fall closer in line with other classes. Those builds usually revolve heavily around a skill that already has a set (FC) and it's complementary legendary. Also, because it's non-specific, that 500% ends up counting for leg gems and stuff, which other set bonuses do not.
If they narrow the bonus to some skills (SS. HotA, AS, CotA), then we can see if 500% is still to much. If it is, my bet is that it can be tune to like, 400% and be fine. I ran a HotA build with the new IK, and while it was good (with really good gear), it certainly didn't feel much stronger than M6 (which is the build I use to compare to).
This gives the set some flexibility, but reduces the damage of skills that have sets (WW, FC) so that IK just isn't better with them.
The other option is to break the bonus into 2 bullets:
- While WotB and CotA are active, gain 100% increased damage
- While WotB and CotA are active, also gain 300-400% increased damage from SS, HotA, AS, and CotA.
This maintains some flexibility, while bringing the outlier builds closer in tune,
You've missed out on the entire point of Grifts. They are infinite, and we're not supposed to be able to do em all. it's ok if we can't do Grift 80, that doesn't mean anything is broken.
Merely LOOKING at your enemies will cause them to deteriorate into radioactive goo.
Your math is flawed.
I hate the idea of specific skills. I like that the new IK actually makes weapon procs etc... good again.
I expect they will change the 6th set bonus to be more pet orientated.
Maybe: - each time you cast x,y,z the Ancients cast it too.
They need to find a "sweet spot", which not as easy as just to sum up % of damage and say, hey if you can do gr60 like this, we will do 300% damage isntead of 500% and you will do gr50 with that, which we are ok with.
Monster HP scale with 17% above the previous grift level not 17% of monsters base HP value. WHich means that if you do something like lover the damage on barb multiplier to 100% from 500%, you may end up in doing grift 35 instead of 50( which i belive is somewhat targeted area they want to accomplish.
So when you assume that every 7 levels thats 3x the health of monster, that only applies to certain grift levels, for example from GR 40 - 47 but wont be true anymore from lets say lv50-57 because growth gets exponential like: 100 + 17% = 117, but 117+17% = 136,89 ( and not 134 as you assumed).
And for semi-offtopic, i liked the "old" 2.2 IK bonus better, since we would finally have a potential that wouldn't be dependant on CDR, since perma beserker and new pants or bracers whatever they decide to make...i know it is less damage than what it is now but it is so fun imho to be able to make almost any build worthvile since perma beserker could possibly make it viable.
i dont care its good blizzard finally buffs the ww for barbs it will be fun playing im so sick of raekors by now...
"Do you guys not have phones?"
Yeah. It has a lot to do with the double dipping on leg gems, bloodshed, and slaughter.
There are a few things that probably weren't intended to benefit from the 500% bonus that are, and that really skews how much damage the set does. Once those things get fixed, then players can test again and see if it's still out of tune.
It's certainly broken in it's current state. I just don't think that a change from 500% to 100% is the answer. I think it's more about finding some of the things that are benefiting that shouldn't be, and then checking again. My guess is that at least basic builds (WW, SS, HotA, AS) will end up being more or less in tune at that point. If the set got nerfed to 100%, many of the spenders just wouldn't be worth it.
50ish should be the goal of every set atm once ALL sets are able to do 50ish then work on buffing sets to "progress" to 60ish
^^ perma wotb with all runes best utility in game. other classes don't have any even comparable too this.
Grift 40-50 isn't NEAR most people, and even without having actual numbers I think I can safely say it's less than 1% of the D3 playerbase. This means there IS progression available for the vast, overwhelming majority of players. Asking for even more buffs just to get to Grift 80 won't actually do anything besides put the top players in the same position. It's like asking for another Tier higher than mythic for the less than 1% of guilds in WoW who have cleared mythic, it just doesn't make sense when there's hundreds of thousands to millions of players who have yet to achieve that high.
Remember, Grifts aren't a thing we're supposed to be able to beat. It's just a meter to see how high we can get, always knowing they never stop and there will always be a point at which players get 1 shot, and killing one trash mob takes the entire 15 minutes.