I know the function of MF hasn't changed much since D2.
But a tiny change has made a fundamental difference to MF, its why people reminisce so fondly of D2 and its bugs, its why people have got so bored with an ARPG loot game, which is exactly what they were expecting.
I have hit MF cap. As a wizard im 10% lower than the WD who posted here.
I have over 400 hrs played on the wiz.
This is why diablo 3 isn't fun.
Back in the day, increasing MF increased the qualitly of your drops, you could see it with your own eyes.
Same thing today.
The difference is the drop rate. The drop rate, is so miniscule in D3 than D2, that even at max MF, like me, although you will see better items, more often, then when I was farming with NV stack alone, still 80% of the loot you pick up, is worthless.
I couldn't put my finger on why I wasn't enjoying D3 endgame. Then I realised, when i lucked out and rolled that decent item in D2, when i begged and borrowed and bartered my way up the MF chain until I became richer and richer, that was fun. Nothing changed in D3, it got easier to get that MF though, through AH, and when I capped out ? and farmed over 200 hrs.
I realised. In this game, the drop rates suck, no matter what, to stretch the game out.
D2 did the same, but a meph ( pindle, baal WHATEVER ) run took >a minute or two, so you didn't notice, it was anticipated loot after anticipated loot.
D3 however, it forces 30-45 mins runs through NV stacks. AND YOU FEEL IT.
The only farming these days is goblin farming.
Anything else is yawn.
The only farming these days is goblin farming.
Anything else is yawn.
Seriously? joining a game looking for a goblin, leave game, rinse and repeat, is fun?
I'm quite looking forward to identifying my 2 stash boxes after each act 3 run, if you find killing goblins more enjoyable its either time to try another class or find a new game.
Nuvian when I do Act 3, wearing only 380% MF, I have to TP back to town 4-5 times per run, just to ID and vend/DE, due to lack of room, it gets.... tedious, maybe I should ignore blues.
Nuvian when I do Act 3, wearing only 380% MF, I have to TP back to town 4-5 times per run, just to ID and vend/DE, due to lack of room, it gets.... tedious, maybe I should ignore blues.
I'd kill for a bigger stash.
I'd definitely suggest ignoring blues unless they have affixes that could make them potentially worthwhile (i.e. Seeking for max MF pieces) or weapons with high prefix/suffix damage combos like Grim Arch Axe from Beyond, etc. I just look for affixes that aren't terrible on blues, and mouseover with CTRL to check their tooltip if need be. I almost never pick them up. I still have to empty my bags 2 or 3 times per run from the rares, but that's a full A3 clear of 30-50 elite packs.
Also: I found goblin farming a lot more boring than actually farming an entire act (or area) worth of elite packs, but this is also growing tedious quickly. I'm probably unusual, but currently I have the most fun leveling characters (reduced level requirement items can be really fun imo). The grind for worthwhile items in Inferno is really a needle in a haystack situation, even with great MF gear, and it just grows boring after doing it so many times within a small time frame.
D2 did the same, but a meph ( pindle, baal WHATEVER ) run took >a minute or two, so you didn't notice, it was anticipated loot after anticipated loot.
D3 however, it forces 30-45 mins runs through NV stacks. AND YOU FEEL IT.
The only farming these days is goblin farming.
Anything else is yawn.
Blah blah blah bring back meph pindle and Sorc-port Baal runs? NTY.
You're basically complaining about being forced to actually play the game for more than 20 seconds to get a boss drop. Guess what that's the point.
Man Blizzard could make you 100% happy if they just put a webpage up on BNet that generated a picture of a random loot drop and just let you spam click the "reroll" button until you got a perfect rare/legendary. And maybe a little message saying "you're an awesome player, nice work!" underneath.
Nuvian when I do Act 3, wearing only 380% MF, I have to TP back to town 4-5 times per run, just to ID and vend/DE, due to lack of room, it gets.... tedious, maybe I should ignore blues.
I've been trying really hard to find a reason to hate d3. After playing the game way too much in a small amount of time, I've finally managed to do just that.
so anyone want to tell us how many "great" items you're suppose to find in a certain amount of time? If what you're finding now isn't good enough then that means you know how much is good enough. Just curious what would make people happy. be specific please.
D2 did the same, but a meph ( pindle, baal WHATEVER ) run took >a minute or two, so you didn't notice, it was anticipated loot after anticipated loot.
D3 however, it forces 30-45 mins runs through NV stacks. AND YOU FEEL IT.
The only farming these days is goblin farming.
Anything else is yawn.
Blah blah blah bring back meph pindle and Sorc-port Baal runs? NTY.
You're basically complaining about being forced to actually play the game for more than 20 seconds to get a boss drop. Guess what that's the point.
Man Blizzard could make you 100% happy if they just put a webpage up on BNet that generated a picture of a random loot drop and just let you spam click the "reroll" button until you got a perfect rare/legendary. And maybe a little message saying "you're an awesome player, nice work!" underneath.
So you're saying, what; he is having fun, he just doesn't know it? Ridiculous. A game is about fun, and that's subjective. If you enjoy farming for hours on end and finding little to nothing then great, you love this game, we all know. The OP wants to like the game, but like many others, is having a hard time staying interested.
i skip blues and yellows under 61, unless they happen to vendor for around 1000. makes farming go faster and a bag full of (mostly) yellows 61+ are fun. I ID the <60 items on the spot to see if I rolled something decent like lvl requirement...otherwise i just drop it.
I have noticed this too. The drop rate is absolutely horrendous for decent items. I've played well over 400 hours and have found 3 crap legendaries and the most i've sold an item for was 800,000 gold. This game is becoming boring that I actually enjoy leveling more and i'm almost done all the classes.
Like it matters, only top level gear sells now, so you are complaining about something I find to be completely true in a sense but you are skewing the details to fit your perception.
95% of what you pick up is complete junk to you. But lets say 45% of what you pick up is gold to other players IF
1. There were other players, meaning you automatically class it as junk because you know you can't sell it because there is no continually fresh player base.
2. Players are either level 60, or previous lvl 60's leveling alts. These guys know not to buy any of the mid range gear, you are just gonna dump it later, so why bother investing twice. You power level your alt, go shopping when you hit 60.
3. Most items you find in Inferno are req lvl 60, and I mean they mostly are, and talk about useless. What level 60 character is going to use a 300 dps revenant bow with 50 dex? But how many do you find like that though. Having required item levels means 90% of what you find is useless, simply because at level 60 it is a POS. But hell at lvl 50 maybe that bow would have been nice, maybe someone would have paid 50 - 100k for it as an up in the AH.
So honestly I think what you find is fairly decent, IF you could move it, but you can't because of the problems I listed. So yeah 99% of everything you pick up is so utterly useless, making this game a snore...
RNG is RNG. You're getting more rares with higher mf. More rares = more chances at maybe one of those being a decent item. Decent item to me is anything selling over 500k.
I can't even touch act 3 yet. Just finished act 2 and been farming act 1. I've had a bunch of good drops. Good drops are anything I sell for over a million.
Your item rolls can't produce OMG awesome items 50%. the game would be broken. Even if they did 10% it still would. With as much rares as you can get in a good hour of farming. If there was better rolls for the items I'd have completed inferno on multiple toons by now.
Back in the day, increasing MF increased the qualitly of your drops, you could see it with your own eyes.
Same thing today.
Stopped reading right there.
No it didn't. MF in D2 only increased the chance of getting higher quality loot as in more rares, not better rares. Being that the rest of yoru post would be based on this inaccurate information I didn't bother reading the rest.
Nuvian when I do Act 3, wearing only 380% MF, I have to TP back to town 4-5 times per run, just to ID and vend/DE, due to lack of room, it gets.... tedious, maybe I should ignore blues.
I'd kill for a bigger stash.
So when you farm act 3 you have to go back to town a lot to clear your inventory and that is boring for you and you would rather kill a goblin and reset the game? The more drops you get per run the better chance of getting something good. If you are wasting time farming for goblins you are screwing yourself out of good drops. And blue weapons sell for decent gold to buy shit with on the AH, the blue armor is usually crap.
RNG is RNG. You're getting more rares with higher mf. More rares = more chances at maybe one of those being a decent item. Decent item to me is anything selling over 500k.
Yes, RNG is RNG, that much is obvious. I'll take rand(100) over rand(7146298348) any day though.
Well i got all 5 classes at 60, beat inferno on the monk, the WD/Wiz and DH are Act 3 and the barb is Act 2 (not good on barbs at all)...
I farmed a ton with no MF gear at all (bout 100-150hrs on WD) and managed to snag over 20 legendaries and enough ilvl 60-63 to full gear all 5 classes... then i did some farming on the monk and finally said screw it... tossed a little bit of money at GAH and got the DH a MF set... only running 294% so nothing huge... just wanted to test it..
heh loving the dramatic improvements on my loots, and selling things for a bunch more then previously... I also think some are just being insanely critical of items as well. That 750 dps 1h may not seem great to you but throw it up on GAH for 20-50k and make some one happy with a decent weapon for a cheap price... made you some money, got them some more gear..win win imho
Yes, RNG is RNG, that much is obvious. I'll take rand(100) over rand(7146298348) any day though.
Which is a ridiculous stance to take because anyone, when offered the chance, would take $100,000,000 over $1000. But if some guy walked up to you in the street and said "Here's $1000 for free!" you're telling me you'd turn it away because it's not enough?
I understand people *feeling* as if they're not getting sufficient loot, but RNG is RNG and even with rand(100) you can still have a terrible streak. Does that mean that they have to bump it up to rand(10) just because you had a horrible streak? At what point does it stop being the system and really fall back on players whining because the RANDOM system wasn't sufficiently kind to them?
5 stack of NV and one rare always dropping kind of helped kill MF. I run with 0 MF speed farming Act 2 with a full DPS set to go fast and I bet I pull a lot more rares per hour than someone with 400 MF farming Act 1.
Yes I know you get more yellows with higher MF, I'm just trying to say with my full DPS set, I can blow by champ packs in 5-10 seconds and move to the next one. I have 150 gold find and honestly to me I find that more useful since it's always on and I sometimes see 2000-2500 gold drops from white mobs. It more than pays for any deaths I might get due to a bad luck champ pack I might run across.
The RNG system doesn't have to be changed. The items themselves and the structure to their affix rolls need to be changed. That's the core of the issue for most player, imo.
When you get a class only item - like a Monk helm and it rolls 100 Strength and 100 Intelligence, that's disheartening. You will RNG all day, if when you see the yellow, unid name "spirit stone" fall out of the loot pinata - knowing that item is going to be at least 50% viable for your character.
Imagine farming and finding items that roll core stats that you are interested in. "This new Spirit Stone just dropped and it has 10 more Dex, but 15 less Vitality - but this one has crit on it and the one I'm currently using has Life %." The properties would be in categories. If the item has 3 property change, than one definitely has to be Dex. The second can be a chance at a core stat or go into the realm of defense, like extra armor or resistences. The final in the realm of sockets, skill bonus, etc. You'd farm all day if gear rolled with more specific values to your character. I'm not saying every piece has to. But at the very least the class specific ones should. And if all gear had a higher chance to roll properties that are attuned to your character, you'd farm all the time to find even the slightest upgrade. Instead after two hours of farming I vendor 10 spirit stones because they have none of the core stats I need. Multiply that general experience to 200, 300, 400 hours of gameplay and many are going to become so disheartened with the game that they quit.
They are making Legendary items more on par with what people are asking for. And they need to re-itemize the affix rolls on items. This pure RNG of "it can roll 5 properties, let them all be truly, completely random" is just not fun for so many any more.
When the new legendary items come out - think about what's going to happen. The rares that are "godly" will still be worth a lot - but those legendary items will be listed at buyouts exceeding billions. So the subtle mindset that is going to seep in to your mind is everything else is crap and you need the legendaries. If they don't adjust the way items roll stats, the problem is just going to repeat itself. And the elite will stay elite.
The RNG system doesn't have to be changed. The items themselves and the structure to their affix rolls need to be changed. That's the core of the issue for most player, imo.
When you get a class only item - like a Monk helm and it rolls 100 Strength and 100 Intelligence, that's disheartening. You will RNG all day, if when you see the yellow, unid name "spirit stone" fall out of the loot pinata - knowing that item is going to be at least 50% viable for your character.
Imagine farming and finding items that roll core stats that you are interested in. "This new Spirit Stone just dropped and it has 10 more Dex, but 15 less Vitality - but this one has crit on it and the one I'm currently using has Life %." You'd farm all day if gear rolled with more specific values to your character. I'm not saying every piece has to. But at the very least the class specific ones should. Instead after two hours of farming I vendor 10 spirit stones because they have none of the core stats I need. Multiply that general experience to 200, 300, 400 hours of gameplay and many are going to become so disheartened with the game that they quit.
They are making Legendary items more on par with what people are asking for. And they need to re-itemize the affix rolls on items. This pure RNG of "it can roll 5 properties, let them all be truly, completely random" is just not fun for so many any more.
When the new legendary items come out - think about what's going to happen. The rares that are "godly" will still be worth a lot - but those legendary items will be listed at buyouts exceeding billions. So the subtle mindset that is going to seep in to your mind is everything else is crap and you need the legendaries. If they don't adjust the way items roll stats, the problem it just going to repeat itself. And the elite will stay elite.
You make good points. If legendaries/sets (after they're re-worked) have any sort of guaranteed stats, they WILL become the baseline, much like they were in D2. What I mean is that if you can roll a Tal Rasha's neckpiece that is guaranteed not to have str/dex on it, then people are going to gravitate towards it since it becomes easier to plan your character than around total random bullshit.
And, I'll be honest, I think that's one of the things about D2 that people didn't realize they liked. They learned the items. They planned their character out meticulously. They had day-to-day goals almost. In D3, because of the total dominance of rares we do not have anything close to that. We are *always* hunting for totally random stuff. We have the goal of upgrading our gear, but it's a completely nebulous and ambiguous idea at this point in time.
This is an important thing for the "average" player. Most people were able to get their legendaries/sets in D2 and feel like strong characters who could tackle the game. They didn't need the best-of-the-best gear. The idea, and implementation, of Inferno has really taken that idea and blown it right out of the water. If you don't have very strong gear, odds are you're farming Act 1 and not thinking about doing much else.
I doubt that anyone who is relegated to farming Act 1 feels remotely "powerful." I could be wrong, though.
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But a tiny change has made a fundamental difference to MF, its why people reminisce so fondly of D2 and its bugs, its why people have got so bored with an ARPG loot game, which is exactly what they were expecting.
I have hit MF cap. As a wizard im 10% lower than the WD who posted here.
I have over 400 hrs played on the wiz.
This is why diablo 3 isn't fun.
Back in the day, increasing MF increased the qualitly of your drops, you could see it with your own eyes.
Same thing today.
The difference is the drop rate. The drop rate, is so miniscule in D3 than D2, that even at max MF, like me, although you will see better items, more often, then when I was farming with NV stack alone, still 80% of the loot you pick up, is worthless.
I couldn't put my finger on why I wasn't enjoying D3 endgame. Then I realised, when i lucked out and rolled that decent item in D2, when i begged and borrowed and bartered my way up the MF chain until I became richer and richer, that was fun. Nothing changed in D3, it got easier to get that MF though, through AH, and when I capped out ? and farmed over 200 hrs.
I realised. In this game, the drop rates suck, no matter what, to stretch the game out.
D2 did the same, but a meph ( pindle, baal WHATEVER ) run took >a minute or two, so you didn't notice, it was anticipated loot after anticipated loot.
D3 however, it forces 30-45 mins runs through NV stacks. AND YOU FEEL IT.
The only farming these days is goblin farming.
Anything else is yawn.
I'm quite looking forward to identifying my 2 stash boxes after each act 3 run, if you find killing goblins more enjoyable its either time to try another class or find a new game.
I'd kill for a bigger stash.
I'd definitely suggest ignoring blues unless they have affixes that could make them potentially worthwhile (i.e. Seeking for max MF pieces) or weapons with high prefix/suffix damage combos like Grim Arch Axe from Beyond, etc. I just look for affixes that aren't terrible on blues, and mouseover with CTRL to check their tooltip if need be. I almost never pick them up. I still have to empty my bags 2 or 3 times per run from the rares, but that's a full A3 clear of 30-50 elite packs.
Also: I found goblin farming a lot more boring than actually farming an entire act (or area) worth of elite packs, but this is also growing tedious quickly. I'm probably unusual, but currently I have the most fun leveling characters (reduced level requirement items can be really fun imo). The grind for worthwhile items in Inferno is really a needle in a haystack situation, even with great MF gear, and it just grows boring after doing it so many times within a small time frame.
Blah blah blah bring back meph pindle and Sorc-port Baal runs? NTY.
You're basically complaining about being forced to actually play the game for more than 20 seconds to get a boss drop. Guess what that's the point.
Man Blizzard could make you 100% happy if they just put a webpage up on BNet that generated a picture of a random loot drop and just let you spam click the "reroll" button until you got a perfect rare/legendary. And maybe a little message saying "you're an awesome player, nice work!" underneath.
so anyone want to tell us how many "great" items you're suppose to find in a certain amount of time? If what you're finding now isn't good enough then that means you know how much is good enough. Just curious what would make people happy. be specific please.
So you're saying, what; he is having fun, he just doesn't know it? Ridiculous. A game is about fun, and that's subjective. If you enjoy farming for hours on end and finding little to nothing then great, you love this game, we all know. The OP wants to like the game, but like many others, is having a hard time staying interested.
95% of what you pick up is complete junk to you. But lets say 45% of what you pick up is gold to other players IF
1. There were other players, meaning you automatically class it as junk because you know you can't sell it because there is no continually fresh player base.
2. Players are either level 60, or previous lvl 60's leveling alts. These guys know not to buy any of the mid range gear, you are just gonna dump it later, so why bother investing twice. You power level your alt, go shopping when you hit 60.
3. Most items you find in Inferno are req lvl 60, and I mean they mostly are, and talk about useless. What level 60 character is going to use a 300 dps revenant bow with 50 dex? But how many do you find like that though. Having required item levels means 90% of what you find is useless, simply because at level 60 it is a POS. But hell at lvl 50 maybe that bow would have been nice, maybe someone would have paid 50 - 100k for it as an up in the AH.
So honestly I think what you find is fairly decent, IF you could move it, but you can't because of the problems I listed. So yeah 99% of everything you pick up is so utterly useless, making this game a snore...
I can't even touch act 3 yet. Just finished act 2 and been farming act 1. I've had a bunch of good drops. Good drops are anything I sell for over a million.
Your item rolls can't produce OMG awesome items 50%. the game would be broken. Even if they did 10% it still would. With as much rares as you can get in a good hour of farming. If there was better rolls for the items I'd have completed inferno on multiple toons by now.
Stopped reading right there.
No it didn't. MF in D2 only increased the chance of getting higher quality loot as in more rares, not better rares. Being that the rest of yoru post would be based on this inaccurate information I didn't bother reading the rest.
So when you farm act 3 you have to go back to town a lot to clear your inventory and that is boring for you and you would rather kill a goblin and reset the game? The more drops you get per run the better chance of getting something good. If you are wasting time farming for goblins you are screwing yourself out of good drops. And blue weapons sell for decent gold to buy shit with on the AH, the blue armor is usually crap.
Yes, RNG is RNG, that much is obvious. I'll take rand(100) over rand(7146298348) any day though.
I farmed a ton with no MF gear at all (bout 100-150hrs on WD) and managed to snag over 20 legendaries and enough ilvl 60-63 to full gear all 5 classes... then i did some farming on the monk and finally said screw it... tossed a little bit of money at GAH and got the DH a MF set... only running 294% so nothing huge... just wanted to test it..
heh loving the dramatic improvements on my loots, and selling things for a bunch more then previously... I also think some are just being insanely critical of items as well. That 750 dps 1h may not seem great to you but throw it up on GAH for 20-50k and make some one happy with a decent weapon for a cheap price... made you some money, got them some more gear..win win imho
Which is a ridiculous stance to take because anyone, when offered the chance, would take $100,000,000 over $1000. But if some guy walked up to you in the street and said "Here's $1000 for free!" you're telling me you'd turn it away because it's not enough?
I understand people *feeling* as if they're not getting sufficient loot, but RNG is RNG and even with rand(100) you can still have a terrible streak. Does that mean that they have to bump it up to rand(10) just because you had a horrible streak? At what point does it stop being the system and really fall back on players whining because the RANDOM system wasn't sufficiently kind to them?
Yes I know you get more yellows with higher MF, I'm just trying to say with my full DPS set, I can blow by champ packs in 5-10 seconds and move to the next one. I have 150 gold find and honestly to me I find that more useful since it's always on and I sometimes see 2000-2500 gold drops from white mobs. It more than pays for any deaths I might get due to a bad luck champ pack I might run across.
When you get a class only item - like a Monk helm and it rolls 100 Strength and 100 Intelligence, that's disheartening. You will RNG all day, if when you see the yellow, unid name "spirit stone" fall out of the loot pinata - knowing that item is going to be at least 50% viable for your character.
Imagine farming and finding items that roll core stats that you are interested in. "This new Spirit Stone just dropped and it has 10 more Dex, but 15 less Vitality - but this one has crit on it and the one I'm currently using has Life %." The properties would be in categories. If the item has 3 property change, than one definitely has to be Dex. The second can be a chance at a core stat or go into the realm of defense, like extra armor or resistences. The final in the realm of sockets, skill bonus, etc. You'd farm all day if gear rolled with more specific values to your character. I'm not saying every piece has to. But at the very least the class specific ones should. And if all gear had a higher chance to roll properties that are attuned to your character, you'd farm all the time to find even the slightest upgrade. Instead after two hours of farming I vendor 10 spirit stones because they have none of the core stats I need. Multiply that general experience to 200, 300, 400 hours of gameplay and many are going to become so disheartened with the game that they quit.
They are making Legendary items more on par with what people are asking for. And they need to re-itemize the affix rolls on items. This pure RNG of "it can roll 5 properties, let them all be truly, completely random" is just not fun for so many any more.
When the new legendary items come out - think about what's going to happen. The rares that are "godly" will still be worth a lot - but those legendary items will be listed at buyouts exceeding billions. So the subtle mindset that is going to seep in to your mind is everything else is crap and you need the legendaries. If they don't adjust the way items roll stats, the problem is just going to repeat itself. And the elite will stay elite.
edit: type to early morning fingers
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
You make good points. If legendaries/sets (after they're re-worked) have any sort of guaranteed stats, they WILL become the baseline, much like they were in D2. What I mean is that if you can roll a Tal Rasha's neckpiece that is guaranteed not to have str/dex on it, then people are going to gravitate towards it since it becomes easier to plan your character than around total random bullshit.
And, I'll be honest, I think that's one of the things about D2 that people didn't realize they liked. They learned the items. They planned their character out meticulously. They had day-to-day goals almost. In D3, because of the total dominance of rares we do not have anything close to that. We are *always* hunting for totally random stuff. We have the goal of upgrading our gear, but it's a completely nebulous and ambiguous idea at this point in time.
This is an important thing for the "average" player. Most people were able to get their legendaries/sets in D2 and feel like strong characters who could tackle the game. They didn't need the best-of-the-best gear. The idea, and implementation, of Inferno has really taken that idea and blown it right out of the water. If you don't have very strong gear, odds are you're farming Act 1 and not thinking about doing much else.
I doubt that anyone who is relegated to farming Act 1 feels remotely "powerful." I could be wrong, though.