Options 2-4 are the same thing, option 1 nerfs everybody and option 5 effects those that need to swap to a different weapon depending on scenario (swapping to a LoH weapon to kill a reflects dmg pack).
The best option is to improve itemization such that not only the super-rich can afford to have an actual useful MF set. In d2, an item like skullders ire wasnt particularly expensive or hard to find... but provided a ton of MF and was pretty good. Or maybe add another gem that gives MF in slots other than just helms.
Improving itemization not only fixes the MF swap problem, but also fixes the single most major issue with the game (lack of item diversity).
What exactly is "improving itemization"? Better drop rates for items? Better gold/hour available to players? Better legendaries with MF on them? I was just wondering..
Options 2-4 are the same thing, option 1 nerfs everybody and option 5 effects those that need to swap to a different weapon depending on scenario (swapping to a LoH weapon to kill a reflects dmg pack).
True on option 5. I didn't like it much before, like it even less now.
The best option is to improve itemization such that not only the super-rich can afford to have an actual useful MF set. In d2, an item like skullders ire wasnt particularly expensive or hard to find... but provided a ton of MF and was pretty good.
If they add an item that has solid stats on it and MF, and that's easy to find, they might as well just give it to everyone. There's a ton of people already complaining on how easy the game is and how nerfing Inferno and improving drop rates caters to "casual gamers" (although I fail to realize how a Farmville/Solitaire player would even get to Inferno), imagine if they made it even easier.
Or maybe add another gem that gives MF in slots other than just helms.
That's pretty interesting. I'm also very disappointed with the lack of complexity in the gems system
What exactly is "improving itemization"? Better drop rates for items? Better gold/hour available to players? Better legendaries with MF on them? I was just wondering..
Improving itemization = improving item diversity. More varied stats. Better legendaries with MF is one of the key things. Not better drop rates (except maybe legendaries) or better gold/hour.
The best option is to improve itemization such that not only the super-rich can afford to have an actual useful MF set. In d2, an item like skullders ire wasnt particularly expensive or hard to find... but provided a ton of MF and was pretty good.
If they add an item that has solid stats on it and MF, and that's easy to find, they might as well just give it to everyone. There's a ton of people already complaining on how easy the game is and how nerfing Inferno and improving drop rates caters to "casual gamers" (although I fail to realize how a Farmville/Solitaire player would even get to Inferno), imagine if they made it even easier.
Skullders was an inexpensive option in D2. A few months into the ladder season, most everybody had it or better. Nobody had a problem with that, because while it was solid... there were better options. I dont understand the people saying the game is too easy, I have some pretty solid gear and I still die quite often in act 3/4 (42k hp, 344 all res, 3400 armor, 125k dps with SS/61k without). Act 4 is equivalent difficulty to ubers in D2, if not worse.
Creating a wider item diversity would require adding new affixes wouldn't it? They're already pretty diverse.
Even if they did that it would just enable people swapping gear at the last second to STILL get the better drops and more of them.
Yes, wider item diversity would require adding new affixes. However, the key part of my suggestion that you seem to have missed is better legendaries that have MF on them and improved legendary droprates. Most low end MF sets in D2 consisted of unique items. Skullders, occulus (or ali baba on switch), lidless, shako, nagel rings, etc. They werent fantastic, but you could still kill stuff and have really high MF, to the point where it isnt entirely worth it to stack more MF.
You can do the same thing in D3, a lot of items that are still rare, but not nearly as rare as they are right now, with MF on them. You will kill reasonably fast and be able to do the content, will have some good MF, and you dont need to swap gear because you have "enough" such that it becomes less reasonable to swap gear.
Well isn't the problem right now that MF on gear seems useless because the majority of people farming just swap to their MF gear at the last second? Wouldn't that still be an issue?
Well isn't the problem right now that MF on gear seems useless because the majority of people farming just swap to their MF gear at the last second? Wouldn't that still be an issue?
The real problem is that the gear that has MF and usable stats on it is really expensive. People generally buy the cheap MF gear that has little/no useful stats and switch to it.
To give an example, there are a TON of people that also run around with just MF gear and useful stats (the people that dont swap). They could afford it, and while they would get higher MF if they had purchased worse gear with higher MF, they dont. They have enough MF and the gear is good enough to let them farm for items, they dont feel the reason to swap gear.
but it doesnt change the mindset that you are missing out a bit if you dont swap. i myself running with stupid MF set with like +globe radius and max MF because i THINK that the 2%more MF will give me an edge, even though 2% isnt much i still THINK i have to do it.
i like the 1% every 3sec the best
and i honestly think buffing legendary droprates would be bad, because they would just become like epics have become in wow just on a global loottable
Not every legendary needs to have a higher droprate. I once again point to D2, because I feel that the system in that game was flawless. Uniques dropped much more frequently, but because stats varied a lot and because different uniques were either good or bad, there was a lot of depth to it. Imagine if there are 5 legendary rings. 3 are not that great, 1 is pretty good and 1 is amazing. You first need the boss to drop a legendary (lets say its a base of 2% and with MF you can raise this to 4 or 5%), you then need it to be a ring, then you need it to be the amazing ring, then you have to deal with the stat roll of the ring. The legendary drops will be more frequent, but it comes more down to the roll on the legendary too. A perfect will be far more valuable. This is the carrot on a stick system used in D2 that kept people playing for years.
You cant compare the diablo loot system to WoWs in any way. All of WoW loot is static. There is no random roll of stats and bosses have a specific loot table.
EDIT: Also, in regards to you swapping for that extra 2%... you are in the vast minority. Anybody that I know of that runs with MF stacked on their gear run with that gear and dont swap. Anybody that runs in DPS/tank gear then swaps completely ignores all stats but MF on the swap gear. Realistically, you really fall in that 2nd group that runs without MF gear then swaps to it.
yes i do swap before the kill, but i dont want to to feel effective.
regarding the legendary drop rates even as described, every bad ring can be turned into a andariels visage for a 2nd chance of rolling, just to keep in mind.
not that i block everything you say, it certainly could work, im just trying to see every angle of the problem
also, what is so bad in your opinion about option 2-4 ? im really curious
Options 2-4 all accomplish the same thing. They remove MF for a period of time if you swap gear, to a point where creatures HP will reset before you can take advantage of swapping gear, effectively removing gear swapping at all. It just hides the fact that you cant gear swap by using a false timer.
Also, you arent fully understanding the D2 loot system. That bad ring isnt a 2nd chance at an andys at all.
This is how loot works in the diablo series:
There is a monster that can drop up to ilvl 60 items. He can drop any item from a range up to level 60 (say 52-60 ilvl). This means ANY item ilvl 52-60 can drop of ANY quality. Between the ilvl of 52-60 there are 4 types of helms (Great Helm, Hounskull, Stechhelm, Zischagge). When you kill the mob, a roll happens to determine what item drops. It could be a helm, a ring, bracers, boots, weapons, anything. Then the roll happens that it could be any ilvl for that particular item. Then a roll happens that determines its quality. It could be white, magic, rare, set, or legendary. Then you have the roll for that particular magic quality for the stats.
So, the loot table for that specific mob which has a range of ilvl 52-60? Just the normal items:
4 helms
3 spirit stones
3 masks
3 wizard hats
4 shoulders
4 chests
3 cloaks
4 bracers
4 gloves
4 belts
3 mighty belts
4 boots
2 amulets
3 rings
5 shields
2 mojo
2 orb
4 quivers
3 follower items for each follower
5 1h axes
5 daggers
5 maces
3 spears
5 1h swords
3 ceremonial knives
3 fist weapons
2 might weapons
2h axes, 2h maces, polearms, staves, 2h swords, daibo, 2h mighty weapons
You have magical equivalents for each, rare equivalents for each and legendary equivalents for most and some set items as well.
So to get a legendary ring you have to roll for a ring, then roll for the legendary, then roll to get the specific ring you want.
Also, mobs that can drop ilvl 63 have a hugely expanded list because from what I can tell, they drop anything from ilvl 55 and up... and most items have ilvl 60/61/62/63 equivalents.
Right now, it is basically impossible to find a legendary that you would want. Legendary droprate seems to be well below 1% even with MF gear. So if a mob drops 100-200 different items you would have to kill thousands and thousands and thousands of times. You can NOT try to get an item you want by yourself, you can only trade for it.
I fail to see how this will help. It will either make a new class of "best" gear, or just add more gear to be hot swapped.
I think Blizzard's goal is impossible. They want to please the players who think hot swapping is fun, but not inconvenience the min-maxers who don't like it, but feel they have to do it for efficiency. That doesn't appear possible. Either hot swapping is an benefit, in which case people who think it is fun will gladly do it, and others will begrudgingly do it, or it's not a benefit, and no one will do it, and the people who thought it was fun have lost a little bit of entertainment value.
Maybe it's possible, but I haven't seen any idea that adequately "solves" the problem. They either go one way - make it easier to swap, but you still have to swap to be the most efficient (along with all the issues with having a full MF gear swap), or the other - gear swapping is either impossible, or inefficient (and when it comes down to it, the people who think it is "fun" are thinking the extra efficiency is fun, not the act of swapping gear).
I fail to see how this will help. It will either make a new class of "best" gear, or just add more gear to be hot swapped.
I think Blizzard's goal is impossible. They want to please the players who think hot swapping is fun, but not inconvenience the min-maxers who don't like it, but feel they have to do it for efficiency. That doesn't appear possible. Either hot swapping is an benefit, in which case people who think it is fun will gladly do it, and others will begrudgingly do it, or it's not a benefit, and no one will do it, and the people who thought it was fun have lost a little bit of entertainment value.
Maybe it's possible, but I haven't seen any idea that adequately "solves" the problem. They either go one way - make it easier to swap, but you still have to swap to be the most efficient (along with all the issues with having a full MF gear swap), or the other - gear swapping is either impossible, or inefficient (and when it comes down to it, the people who think it is "fun" are thinking the extra efficiency is fun, not the act of swapping gear).
MF has diminishing returns on its effect (like everything else in the game) so you can reach a point where extra MF isnt really useful. This option wont prevent the truly dedicated and hardcore from gear swapping, but it provides an alternative where the vast majority of the population no longer feel it is necessary to swap gear.
they should take away MF... imo it's a useless stat and takes the place of a possibly much more useful one in items, just buff the drops and NV and get rid of MF... no? *okay*
The best option is to improve itemization such that not only the super-rich can afford to have an actual useful MF set. In d2, an item like skullders ire wasnt particularly expensive or hard to find... but provided a ton of MF and was pretty good. Or maybe add another gem that gives MF in slots other than just helms.
Improving itemization not only fixes the MF swap problem, but also fixes the single most major issue with the game (lack of item diversity).
True on option 5. I didn't like it much before, like it even less now.
If they add an item that has solid stats on it and MF, and that's easy to find, they might as well just give it to everyone. There's a ton of people already complaining on how easy the game is and how nerfing Inferno and improving drop rates caters to "casual gamers" (although I fail to realize how a Farmville/Solitaire player would even get to Inferno), imagine if they made it even easier.
That's pretty interesting. I'm also very disappointed with the lack of complexity in the gems system
It's hard to please everyone..
Skullders was an inexpensive option in D2. A few months into the ladder season, most everybody had it or better. Nobody had a problem with that, because while it was solid... there were better options. I dont understand the people saying the game is too easy, I have some pretty solid gear and I still die quite often in act 3/4 (42k hp, 344 all res, 3400 armor, 125k dps with SS/61k without). Act 4 is equivalent difficulty to ubers in D2, if not worse.
Even if they did that it would just enable people swapping gear at the last second to STILL get the better drops and more of them.
You can do the same thing in D3, a lot of items that are still rare, but not nearly as rare as they are right now, with MF on them. You will kill reasonably fast and be able to do the content, will have some good MF, and you dont need to swap gear because you have "enough" such that it becomes less reasonable to swap gear.
To give an example, there are a TON of people that also run around with just MF gear and useful stats (the people that dont swap). They could afford it, and while they would get higher MF if they had purchased worse gear with higher MF, they dont. They have enough MF and the gear is good enough to let them farm for items, they dont feel the reason to swap gear.
You cant compare the diablo loot system to WoWs in any way. All of WoW loot is static. There is no random roll of stats and bosses have a specific loot table.
EDIT: Also, in regards to you swapping for that extra 2%... you are in the vast minority. Anybody that I know of that runs with MF stacked on their gear run with that gear and dont swap. Anybody that runs in DPS/tank gear then swaps completely ignores all stats but MF on the swap gear. Realistically, you really fall in that 2nd group that runs without MF gear then swaps to it.
Also, you arent fully understanding the D2 loot system. That bad ring isnt a 2nd chance at an andys at all.
This is how loot works in the diablo series:
There is a monster that can drop up to ilvl 60 items. He can drop any item from a range up to level 60 (say 52-60 ilvl). This means ANY item ilvl 52-60 can drop of ANY quality. Between the ilvl of 52-60 there are 4 types of helms (Great Helm, Hounskull, Stechhelm, Zischagge). When you kill the mob, a roll happens to determine what item drops. It could be a helm, a ring, bracers, boots, weapons, anything. Then the roll happens that it could be any ilvl for that particular item. Then a roll happens that determines its quality. It could be white, magic, rare, set, or legendary. Then you have the roll for that particular magic quality for the stats.
So, the loot table for that specific mob which has a range of ilvl 52-60? Just the normal items:
4 helms
3 spirit stones
3 masks
3 wizard hats
4 shoulders
4 chests
3 cloaks
4 bracers
4 gloves
4 belts
3 mighty belts
4 boots
2 amulets
3 rings
5 shields
2 mojo
2 orb
4 quivers
3 follower items for each follower
5 1h axes
5 daggers
5 maces
3 spears
5 1h swords
3 ceremonial knives
3 fist weapons
2 might weapons
2h axes, 2h maces, polearms, staves, 2h swords, daibo, 2h mighty weapons
You have magical equivalents for each, rare equivalents for each and legendary equivalents for most and some set items as well.
So to get a legendary ring you have to roll for a ring, then roll for the legendary, then roll to get the specific ring you want.
Also, mobs that can drop ilvl 63 have a hugely expanded list because from what I can tell, they drop anything from ilvl 55 and up... and most items have ilvl 60/61/62/63 equivalents.
Right now, it is basically impossible to find a legendary that you would want. Legendary droprate seems to be well below 1% even with MF gear. So if a mob drops 100-200 different items you would have to kill thousands and thousands and thousands of times. You can NOT try to get an item you want by yourself, you can only trade for it.
I think Blizzard's goal is impossible. They want to please the players who think hot swapping is fun, but not inconvenience the min-maxers who don't like it, but feel they have to do it for efficiency. That doesn't appear possible. Either hot swapping is an benefit, in which case people who think it is fun will gladly do it, and others will begrudgingly do it, or it's not a benefit, and no one will do it, and the people who thought it was fun have lost a little bit of entertainment value.
Maybe it's possible, but I haven't seen any idea that adequately "solves" the problem. They either go one way - make it easier to swap, but you still have to swap to be the most efficient (along with all the issues with having a full MF gear swap), or the other - gear swapping is either impossible, or inefficient (and when it comes down to it, the people who think it is "fun" are thinking the extra efficiency is fun, not the act of swapping gear).