EDIT: As many have said this is normal so maybe they are planning on allowing this kind of thing for normal and then scale them down for the rest.
But then you have a situation where the most important time you use your skills (vs hard things), you have to remember the difficulty you're on and then do either research or math to figure out what your skills actually do, thus making it harder to build your character properly. (Do you go for a mitigated stun or some other spell that doesn't get affected like this?)
Obviously this is not ideal, it's a tough design situation which is why I made this video but clearly it can't be left like this for harder difficulties.
Hey guys!
Just finished uploading a new video showing the SK being stunlocked from 100% to 0% life by DH's impale. This is using level 7's and only the starting bow that you get in the beta so it's definitely not a matter of being overgeared or overleveled
Please let me know how big of a problem you think this is and how Blizzard can best address this!
Also want to thank Mux, Ace and Omni for helping me out with this video, if you are interested in helping out with videos like this or joining our D3 team you can check us out at http://www.armadagaming.com
Stun time for bosses is already markedly reduced over regular mobs and I'm told that stun time for champs and rares is even shorter, meaning that they'll probably be less vulnerable to this technique. We haven't been given exact numbers for how much the stun times are truncated by which makes me think that it could be on a sliding scale linked to the monster's level? Presumably that would mean that in later difficulties stun times would be shaved down much further, and also that this effect would be even greater in multi-player games as the monsters are harder in those.
Mind you, this is a very clever and well-coordinated tactic that will probably be extremely effective for early game. I hope the stun mechanic works the way I've described above, because that would provide a gradually increasing curve of difficulty as the team stunlock technique slowly became less and less overpowered. If it DOESN'T work this way, and they haven't come up with some other clever fix, then I guess the game as it stands is broken by this style of play which would be a shame. Still, this is what the beta is for. They've worked out hatred regeneration rates, the cost of impale and the duration of the stun to be balanced for single player but if they hadn't realised before that this technique was possible then they will now.
Maybe if they don't want to nerf stun based on monster level they could make it so that one player stunning a monster makes that monster immune to other players' stuns for a few seconds, or something like that? Or maybe there could be a diminishing returns mechanic on stuns, so that the first stun lasts for the full duration, but the next only lasts for half and the next a quarter, etc, etc? Actually I like the sounds of that last one...
EDIT: I actually think that stuns should still be somewhat effective against even act bosses, but I agree they should be less vulnerable to them, and they DEFINITELY shouldn't be able to be stunlocked like this. Here's hoping!
In the beta as it is right now, my DH can stun him until he dies by herself, but of course she has good items and is level 13. That said, I'm sure that the duration of CC will be reduced both based on the tier of monster that something is as well as difficulty. I can't imagine that on Inferno, all your CCs will still be effective for the full duration.. even if only because of the fact the monsters will be higher level than you are.
Either way, it's cheesy but I seriously doubt that Blizzard's internal testing would be so horrible as to not notice this as being an issue. I assume they will scale CCs a lot by the time you are in the end-game.
As many have said this is normal so maybe they are planning on allowing this kind of thing for normal and then scale them down for the rest.
But then you have a situation where the most important time you use your skills (vs hard things), you have to remember the difficulty you're on and then do either research or math to figure out what your skills actually do, thus making it harder to build your character properly. (Do you go for a mitigated stun or some other spell that doesn't get affected like this?)
Obviously this is not ideal, it's a tough design situation which is why I made this video but clearly it can't be left like this for harder difficulties.
Enemies will probably have CC reduction, reducing the effectiveness of CC, just like armor etc reduces the effectiveness of damage.
Over time people will learn which enemies are more or less resistant.
A more interesting system might be a diminishing return on CC, but we probably wont see that (too complex for grandmas and such).
In D2, you were able to slow down and stun bosses difficulty level Normal and NM. But in Hell mode, you weren't able to. My guess is that once you enter Hell or Inferno, they'll be immune to it.
If you're a solo demon hunter you can effectively stun lock the Skeleton King by using Impale (with Impact rune) every 2nd or 3rd shot.
At the very least you can use Impale to interrupt all of this special abilities. This is my biggest concern because it will be effective even if they shorten the stun duration for bosses. So, you could have a rune that is useless on bosses (if they make bosses immune to stun) or a rune that is overpowered (if they allow bosses to be stunned for any duration).
I think the best possible solution is to do the following:
1. Allow the boss to be stunned for a very short duration.
2. If I boss was using a special ability when it was stunned then it will attempt to use the same ability shortly after the stun wears off.
3. After a boss is cc'd there is a subsequent period of time during which the boss is immune to cc.
well, as before stated, its normal difficulty so youre not at any real risk of dying anyways. other thing i wanted to point out is the skeleton king, while he is a 'boss' he's not a major one like andariel, duriel, mephisto, diablo, or baal. i think it would be a problem if you could stunlock an end-act boss in d3, but im fairly confident that end act bosses wont be as easy to CC. slows, stuns, and other such effects will probably have their duration reduced by 75% or more, if not immune alltogether
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(this build was before D3 launched... looking back on it now - i had no idea what i was doing)
I'm pretty certain that the SK isn't actually a boss. If this is intended I certainly hope you wont be able to do this on actual bosses. Even for a mini boss this probably shouldn't be possible.
He is like a Blood Raven in D2. But he looks like a mini-boss even if he is not tough enough. But who knows if they add some more interesting mobs to his "spawn-mobs" ability and make him hit a little harder he may surprise some people. On Nightmare he should one kill everybody who gets hit with his whirlwind and put to 1hp whomever gets hit by his teleport-instahit ability
I'm pretty certain that the SK isn't actually a boss. If this is intended I certainly hope you wont be able to do this on actual bosses. Even for a mini boss this probably shouldn't be possible.
He is like a Blood Raven in D2. But he looks like a mini-boss even if he is not tough enough. But who knows if they add some more interesting mobs to his "spawn-mobs" ability and make him hit a little harder he may surprise some people. On Nightmare he should one kill everybody who gets hit with his whirlwind and put to 1hp whomever gets hit by his teleport-instahit ability
Um Blood Raven was in the 4th area total of act 1 (moor, den, cold plains, her place)
SK is in like the.. 15th or something....
He's not really like any minibossboss in D2 as none of the minibosses had even 20% of the build up or epicness.
My guess would be that just like how in Diablo 2 you could see your lowered resistances reflected in your character window, you will see the effective duration for the difficulty you are on in the tooltip, assuming that it works that way. I believe the duration times are all green, meaning they can be effected and changed by things, are they not?
Maybe in D3 we have super mini bosses and mini bosses (him)
Anyway I believe they may reduce stun in higher difficulties by some amount and make some abilities non interrupt-able.
I have a feeling it'll be just like D2 where stuff simply becomes less effective on the harder difficulties. I tended to favor a straight up frenzy barb for magic finding because of that. At worst all I needed to do was use potions, but for the most part even nerfed lifesteal was enough to get me through Hell Mephisto runs.
I had a feeling this was what you were going to try and do. I did a little freezing and stunning of SK with my Co-Op buddy so had a feeling something like this would eventually be tested Good work, I'll have to watch the vid later.
As for higher level acts, I'm willing to bet the bosses will get CC reductions like they get elemental resistances, so it won't be as easy to pull off.
I'm thinking they will go the diminishing returns rout. We all know that what we see in the beta right now is going to have some changes already dont and I think it would be easier to turn of DRs in a beta and make sure all stuns and snares just WORK over anything else.
As others have said I am also assuming that after normal the durations or ability to snare will not be possible on some mobs. The only catch is if we get to the point where we cant snare a champ and it hits like a truck all builds based on avoidance and snaring would be useless.
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But then you have a situation where the most important time you use your skills (vs hard things), you have to remember the difficulty you're on and then do either research or math to figure out what your skills actually do, thus making it harder to build your character properly. (Do you go for a mitigated stun or some other spell that doesn't get affected like this?)
Obviously this is not ideal, it's a tough design situation which is why I made this video but clearly it can't be left like this for harder difficulties.
Hey guys!
Just finished uploading a new video showing the SK being stunlocked from 100% to 0% life by DH's impale. This is using level 7's and only the starting bow that you get in the beta so it's definitely not a matter of being overgeared or overleveled
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MftUVW_G9QE
Please let me know how big of a problem you think this is and how Blizzard can best address this!
Also want to thank Mux, Ace and Omni for helping me out with this video, if you are interested in helping out with videos like this or joining our D3 team you can check us out at http://www.armadagaming.com
Mind you, this is a very clever and well-coordinated tactic that will probably be extremely effective for early game. I hope the stun mechanic works the way I've described above, because that would provide a gradually increasing curve of difficulty as the team stunlock technique slowly became less and less overpowered. If it DOESN'T work this way, and they haven't come up with some other clever fix, then I guess the game as it stands is broken by this style of play which would be a shame. Still, this is what the beta is for. They've worked out hatred regeneration rates, the cost of impale and the duration of the stun to be balanced for single player but if they hadn't realised before that this technique was possible then they will now.
Maybe if they don't want to nerf stun based on monster level they could make it so that one player stunning a monster makes that monster immune to other players' stuns for a few seconds, or something like that? Or maybe there could be a diminishing returns mechanic on stuns, so that the first stun lasts for the full duration, but the next only lasts for half and the next a quarter, etc, etc? Actually I like the sounds of that last one...
EDIT: I actually think that stuns should still be somewhat effective against even act bosses, but I agree they should be less vulnerable to them, and they DEFINITELY shouldn't be able to be stunlocked like this. Here's hoping!
Either way, it's cheesy but I seriously doubt that Blizzard's internal testing would be so horrible as to not notice this as being an issue. I assume they will scale CCs a lot by the time you are in the end-game.
As many have said this is normal so maybe they are planning on allowing this kind of thing for normal and then scale them down for the rest.
But then you have a situation where the most important time you use your skills (vs hard things), you have to remember the difficulty you're on and then do either research or math to figure out what your skills actually do, thus making it harder to build your character properly. (Do you go for a mitigated stun or some other spell that doesn't get affected like this?)
Obviously this is not ideal, it's a tough design situation which is why I made this video but clearly it can't be left like this for harder difficulties.
Over time people will learn which enemies are more or less resistant.
A more interesting system might be a diminishing return on CC, but we probably wont see that (too complex for grandmas and such).
Undead creatures would be immune to fear. If not, then that's probably a bug.
They won't be stunlock-able.
At the very least you can use Impale to interrupt all of this special abilities. This is my biggest concern because it will be effective even if they shorten the stun duration for bosses. So, you could have a rune that is useless on bosses (if they make bosses immune to stun) or a rune that is overpowered (if they allow bosses to be stunned for any duration).
I think the best possible solution is to do the following:
1. Allow the boss to be stunned for a very short duration.
2. If I boss was using a special ability when it was stunned then it will attempt to use the same ability shortly after the stun wears off.
3. After a boss is cc'd there is a subsequent period of time during which the boss is immune to cc.
I doubt they'd do it this way since it would be a strangely drastic difference for the stuns to behave so differently from one moment to the next.
Nice video!
He is like a Blood Raven in D2. But he looks like a mini-boss even if he is not tough enough. But who knows if they add some more interesting mobs to his "spawn-mobs" ability and make him hit a little harder he may surprise some people. On Nightmare he should one kill everybody who gets hit with his whirlwind and put to 1hp whomever gets hit by his teleport-instahit ability
Um Blood Raven was in the 4th area total of act 1 (moor, den, cold plains, her place)
SK is in like the.. 15th or something....
He's not really like any minibossboss in D2 as none of the minibosses had even 20% of the build up or epicness.
Anyway I believe they may reduce stun in higher difficulties by some amount and make some abilities non interrupt-able.
As for higher level acts, I'm willing to bet the bosses will get CC reductions like they get elemental resistances, so it won't be as easy to pull off.
As others have said I am also assuming that after normal the durations or ability to snare will not be possible on some mobs. The only catch is if we get to the point where we cant snare a champ and it hits like a truck all builds based on avoidance and snaring would be useless.