Please keep the thread civil. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
As mentioned on the official forums, according to my calculations it will take 3.37 years to get one level 14 gem. This is under a few conditions:
You get a level 5 gem every 15 minutes (or 4 every hour)
Gems still have a 3:1 transformation system
You play on average 4 hours a day
Trading is not taken into consideration because everybody wants at least 1 level 14 gem.
My argument:
While I don't think my argument is completely void, ScyberDragon has pointed out that Bashiok has addressed this issue:
Official Blizzard Quote:
We'll probably be dropping gems a couple levels further than the 5th (as previously stated), which should help. We also want to make sure it doesn't become a pain to have a ton of gems sitting around waiting for another one to upgrade, so there may be some crafting solutions that help with that. But more importantly we expect a more robust trading system will make it much more feasible to sell off a ton of gems, earn that wealth, and then buy back into gems later when you want - and on the buyer side of that, if you have some gems and just need one more to upgrade, it will be quick and easy to go get one for a reasonable price.
Like I mentioned in your comments, I think we're undervaluing trading as a primary source for gem building. If we assume it's something that everyone wants, there will be a market for it. However I don't believe it's going to be an absolute rush on every gem as different classes will need different gems (eg: as a Barb I'm not interested in Emeralds for my weapons). Inevitably there will also be players who fail to recognize the value of gems and just give or bargain them away.
Finally, realizing something is too hard to achieve could imply the existence of other sources such as the Jeweler or quests.
At work so can't listen (wtb transcript :-p). Is this assuming that higher level gems won't drop? I don't know if this assumption is valid with Inferno around. If even level 6 gems drop, it will significantly reduce the time necessary.
First, I would assume that Level 5 runes will likely drop significantly more than perfect gems did in D2 given the low level of those runes. You can also not qualify the drop rate by stating that they have to be of a specific type, as, on average, only the gross drop rate matters. So I would assume a higher drop rate; maybe 12/hour or so (1 every 5 minutes).
Second, I feel that 4 hours on average is quite high. For the majority of players, 2 hours ON AVERAGE will be more likely.
So, based on those assumptions, I get 1.5 years for a Level 14 gem. That is high, but that said, due to the exponential nature of this calculation it will also be significantly easier to get Level 12 or Level 13 gems.
So, the real question is how much more powerful will higher level gems be? Does their power increase exponentially also? I doubt it. This might be a nice, long-term goal to round-out your character that is otherwise complete.
My bigger problem with this system is that you will end up spending a lot of time "cubing" gems....
Why do you think the drop rates will be that high? We're talking about one type of level 5 gem.
Don't forget that they are increasing the max level of gems dropped. At least by one if not two. This significantly decreases the number of gems needed to get a lvl 14.
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Don't forget that they are increasing the max level of gems dropped. At least by one if not two. This significantly decreases the number of gems needed to get a lvl 14.
Huh? When did that happen? It's not going to be max level 5 gem drop in the world?
Don't forget that they are increasing the max level of gems dropped. At least by one if not two. This significantly decreases the number of gems needed to get a lvl 14.
Huh? When did that happen? It's not going to be max level 5 gem drop in the world?
Don't forget that they are increasing the max level of gems dropped. At least by one if not two. This significantly decreases the number of gems needed to get a lvl 14.
Huh? When did that happen? It's not going to be max level 5 gem drop in the world?
How did I miss that? Nobody has ever mentioned that in all the time I've argued about this. That will definitely change the equation. I'll have to amend that. Thanks Scyber.
I like the fact that gems will be a sort of an "end game" goal, i like the fact that they will be hard to come by, you will have to spend a lot of gold buying up gems from the AH if you want to build 1, its nice that there is something to aim for with gems, since they weren't that useful in Diablo 2 past NM.
By how much would it change the time required to craft a level 14 gem if levels 6-7-8 were available?
well for lvl 5 you need 6,561 lvl 5 gems to get 1 lvl 14
is lvl 6 drops, you need 2,187 lvl 6 gems to get 1 lvl 14
if lvl 7 drops, you need 729 lvl 7 gems to get to 1 lvl 14
you can see how this significantly can alter the time taken to get these.
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By how much would it change the time required to craft a level 14 gem if levels 6-7-8 were available?
Well, let's see.
6: Require gems: 3^8=6561, 6561gems x (1hour/4 gems)=1640.25hours, 1840.25hours x (1day/4hours) = 410 days.
7: Require gems: 3^7=2187 ... = 136.69 days
8: Require gems: 3^6=729 ... = 45.56 days
The equation is basically: days = (3^x)/8, where x is the number of levels required.
except you have to -1 from the ^x because the first level is negated. i.e to get one level 1 gem you do not need 3^1=3, just one. However, to get 1 lvl 2 gem you do need 3^1= 3 gems to get it.
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By how much would it change the time required to craft a level 14 gem if levels 6-7-8 were available?
Well, let's see.
6: Require gems: 3^8=6561, 6561gems x (1hour/4 gems)=1640.25hours, 1840.25hours x (1day/4hours) = 410 days.
7: Require gems: 3^7=2187 ... = 136.69 days
8: Require gems: 3^6=729 ... = 45.56 days
The equation is basically: days = (3^x)/8, where x is the number of levels required.
except you have to -1 from the ^x because the first level is negated. i.e to get one level 1 gem you do not need 3^1=3, just one. However, to get 1 lvl 2 gem you do need 3^1= 3 gems to get it.
Oh yeah, that's right, amending that to avoid confusion.
Like the first poster said, since we can take gems out and use them again, there is no problem with this since you don't need to be saving your gems for 4 years without using them...
And its more fun if geting the best gear rly takes a long time...so that ppl aint all the same after playing for a month.
Just totally wild guesses here, but just for fun:
Lets say that level 5 gems go four around 50 gold on the Auction house, maybe 100.
So the price for a level 14 gem off the AH would be 984,150 gold (if they are 50each) or $1,968,300 gold (if they are 100each).
Now, usually the larger the "stack" of somthing your buying the larger the "discount" is. So, if the standard price for level 5 gems is 50-100, i would expect a 10%-15% discount for each "increase" in level.
So, a level 6 gem wouldn't cost a straight 150, but more likely (due to other ways to transmute gems that have been aluded to, and just the way an economy works, buy bulk, pay less) it would cost $127.50 gold or so. Now, instead of a level 7 gem costing a straight 450 gold, it would cost (127.5*3-15%) 325.125 gold. Continue on like this, and a level 14 gem shouldn't cost (if a level costs 50 gold) more than 227,945.82 gold, rather than 984,150 gold.
Now the numbers are arbitrary, who knows how much 50-100 gold is worth. But I would say a level 14 gem will be significantly cheaper than if you baught 19683 level 5 gems.
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As mentioned on the official forums, according to my calculations it will take 3.37 years to get one level 14 gem. This is under a few conditions:
While I don't think my argument is completely void, ScyberDragon has pointed out that Bashiok has addressed this issue:
Official Blizzard Quote:
We'll probably be dropping gems a couple levels further than the 5th (as previously stated), which should help. We also want to make sure it doesn't become a pain to have a ton of gems sitting around waiting for another one to upgrade, so there may be some crafting solutions that help with that. But more importantly we expect a more robust trading system will make it much more feasible to sell off a ton of gems, earn that wealth, and then buy back into gems later when you want - and on the buyer side of that, if you have some gems and just need one more to upgrade, it will be quick and easy to go get one for a reasonable price.
Finally, realizing something is too hard to achieve could imply the existence of other sources such as the Jeweler or quests.
Edit: Nice spread sheet.
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well for lvl 5 you need 6,561 lvl 5 gems to get 1 lvl 14
is lvl 6 drops, you need 2,187 lvl 6 gems to get 1 lvl 14
if lvl 7 drops, you need 729 lvl 7 gems to get to 1 lvl 14
you can see how this significantly can alter the time taken to get these.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
6: Require gems: 3^8=6561, 6561gems x (1hour/4 gems)=1640.25hours, 1840.25hours x (1day/4hours) = 410 days.
7: Require gems: 3^7=2187 ... = 136.69 days
8: Require gems: 3^6=729 ... = 45.56 days
The equation is basically: days = (3^(x-1))/16, where x is the number of levels required.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
And its more fun if geting the best gear rly takes a long time...so that ppl aint all the same after playing for a month.
Lets say that level 5 gems go four around 50 gold on the Auction house, maybe 100.
So the price for a level 14 gem off the AH would be 984,150 gold (if they are 50each) or $1,968,300 gold (if they are 100each).
Now, usually the larger the "stack" of somthing your buying the larger the "discount" is. So, if the standard price for level 5 gems is 50-100, i would expect a 10%-15% discount for each "increase" in level.
So, a level 6 gem wouldn't cost a straight 150, but more likely (due to other ways to transmute gems that have been aluded to, and just the way an economy works, buy bulk, pay less) it would cost $127.50 gold or so. Now, instead of a level 7 gem costing a straight 450 gold, it would cost (127.5*3-15%) 325.125 gold. Continue on like this, and a level 14 gem shouldn't cost (if a level costs 50 gold) more than 227,945.82 gold, rather than 984,150 gold.
Now the numbers are arbitrary, who knows how much 50-100 gold is worth. But I would say a level 14 gem will be significantly cheaper than if you baught 19683 level 5 gems.