yet another upgrade thread (high end)

  • #21
    Quote from Bagstone

    Just a stop sign: forget about the poison bonus on Zuni boots, Chanto is not a black weapon. Don't know why so many people overlook this. It's by the way the main reason why I even advise getting rid of Zuni and going for Nat set. (No offense, just trying to sensitize people towards the fact that Chanto's is NOT A BLACK WEAPON and thus the damage bonus of Tal's amulet/Zuni boots/Storm Crow/... is negligible.)

    For a similar reason, you might get rid of the Tal amulet and just craft the hell until you hit a good one. Could definitely use some IAS+CC+EHP, some LoH... actually, I'd do that first.


    lol im sorry you make me chuckle here yes even though that chantodo´s will itself is not black damage ALL average damage on your gear is counted as black damage and there the % damage on zunis will boost dps and nats? you crazy you cant even roll stats good enough vs actually getting good rares as nats is a dex set sorry. I would have understood you telling a CMWW to pick up MS ice climbers though with 250 + int on them
  • #22
    Obviously Zuni boots give better dps alone, but he meant not only Nat's boots, but the 2set, which would provide the useful crit chance. Also, the dex on boots gives dodge. The first 100(?) dex you get on your char is giving you a nice dodge boost, beyond that, diminishing returns kick in hard.
  • #23
    Quote from Zeel

    [...] and nats? you crazy you cant even roll stats good enough vs actually getting good rares as nats is a dex set sorry. I would have understood you telling a CMWW to pick up MS ice climbers though with 250 + int on them


    It's only for the +7% crit chance set bonus with Nat's Reflection. This allows many CM/WW wizards on a budget to focus on IAS on their other pieces (especially gloves and jewelry) and not worry about the lack of CC on those pieces. Also, the only piece unlikely to "roll stats good enough" is the Nat's boots. Nat's Reflection can actually be quite good since it can roll doublt int+vit along with CC to go with its natural IAS.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #24
    The main DPS source is weapon, and with a Chanto's you usually lose about half of the bonus damage you get from Tal's amulet/Zuni boots (depends on how high the fire damage amount is).

    And yes, Nat is a dex set, but as opposed to the Zuni set its stats are tailored even more to CMWW; it has IAS by default, a stat that you *need*, whereas Zuni Pox has CD by default, the one trifecta stat that can be neglected by CMWW budget wizards. Besides, the fact that you're thinking about 250+ int boots is telling. For CMWW, first think about IAS+APoC+CC for good stunlock. Second, think about good EHP and LoH to ensure survivability at all times. Once this is done, and not a second earlier, you can start thinking about other damage stats like int/crit damage.
  • #25
    Quote from Bagstone

    The main DPS source is weapon, and with a Chanto's you usually lose about half of the bonus damage you get from Tal's amulet/Zuni boots (depends on how high the fire damage amount is).

    And yes, Nat is a dex set, but as opposed to the Zuni set its stats are tailored even more to CMWW; it has IAS by default, a stat that you *need*, whereas Zuni Pox has CD by default, the one trifecta stat that can be neglected by CMWW budget wizards. Besides, the fact that you're thinking about 250+ int boots is telling. For CMWW, first think about IAS+APoC+CC for good stunlock. Second, think about good EHP and LoH to ensure survivability at all times. Once this is done, and not a second earlier, you can start thinking about other damage stats like int/crit damage.


    More chuckles from me here are you trying to tell me that ice climbers are bad for EHP and survial? and are you still not aware this is for a "high end" thread clearly mentioned in the tittle of the topic. Giving advice should be based around the person who posted the topic and what gear they have and what they most likely can spend. Getting a pair of IC and a good trifactor ring is a better option for someone who ONLY plays CMWW I however play both CMWW and archon and for me its only natural to pick up zuni boots as they work fine for BOTH builds not optimal as said for CMWW but great for archon, this however dose not make zuni boots bad for CMWW and it dose not mean it wont buff your dps either. I gave my advice based on what I like to do wich is party up on high MP lvls with CMWW and lvl/farm solo as archon.

    Also yes Turtel I am well aware of that the 2nd set bonus provides 7% crit its just in general boots are sub par at best and fact is at least on EU if you want a nats ring thats good you might as well be picking up a trifector ring you wont be swapping out once you can afford a pair of MS ice climbers.
  • #26
    Quote from Zeel

    Giving advice should be based around the person who posted the topic and what gear they have and what they most likely can spend.
    [...]
    I gave my advice based on what I like to do wich is party up on high MP lvls with CMWW and lvl/farm solo as archon.


    OP said he is a CM wiz and did not talk about Archon at all. I'm not saying that Zuni boots suck like hell, but your advice on upgrading the Zuni boots from 7% poison damage to 8% were what made me cause to chuckle. Jalatiphra later said he was aware of the elemental damage issue, but there are a lot of people reading every topic as anonymous users and therefore I wanted to clarify this.

    For the purpose of not derailing this thread, if you want to continue the gear discussion a perfect thread for that is my guide, where I mention this issue in the particular sections and elaborate on that. I have to say that I'm surprised that there is actually almost no criticism to my guide but I'm totally aware that I can't get everything right and perfect, so if you think I made a mistake there I'd be more than happy to update my guide and/or discuss this issue with you over there. Thanks!
  • #27
    Quote from Bagstone

    I have to say that I'm surprised that there is actually almost no criticism to my guide ...


    thats because that guide is pretty much awesome :)
  • #28
    done with the first step : getting new chantodo .. not 1.2k dps but max aps
    now aiming for a rare amu trifec +int + loh + average damage
    i should start crafting :D
  • #29
    Lots of good advice in this thread. I started CM wiz about 4 months ago and have been going through the upgrade struggle ever since, can be super frustrating at times but it's a lot more fun then my barb was.
    I would say your biggest problem is your armor/LoH, I run SNS in a mp10 group with a couple cyclone monks with a 4574-armor/47k-life/766-Res/1121-LOH/2.76-AS and I'm still not satisfied with my survivability. You have nice resist but 3372 armor is much too low and I assume that's why your using crystal shell and not shards. Easy partial solution would be to replace your BT pants with a pair with 800+ armor. for the LOH I'd start crafting ammy's, I'm over a 1000 crafts now and have made about 12 that are good (no trifecta yet...) the one I'm currently wearing gives me the best balance for high mp so far.

    I also agree with those suggesting IC+rare ring over the Zuni set, at your amount of vit the 12% life bonus on IC's will give you more life then the vit on your Zuni's and it's fairly cheap to find a 245+ int pair that when socketed will completely replace the int you get from the set bonus, you can also get armor and vit rolls.
    If you look at the IC+rare ring in currently wearing (http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/richtko-1182/EXLAND/19256100#) which there still has of room for upgrading.
    I'm getting; intelligence 394 (vs 338 on your Zuni set), vit 130 (78), res 146 (143), life 12% (0), as 8% (6%), CC 5.5% (4%), CD 0 (34%), avg dmg 32 (0), armor 519 (331) and of course I don't have the elemental damage but for the price of your pox you could do considerably better then your current setup.

    Nice wand btw!
  • #30
    Oki - sorry for resurrecting.

    I took all the update advice i could get

    Things wich changed since the beginning:
    new chantoMainhand max attack speed, more damage,
    new iceclimbers , instead of zunimasa boots
    new rings - one with loh, the other pure offense
    new amulet - instead of talrasha now trifecta to get 2.74 breakpoint
    new lacuni - for all res and dps
    new witching hour - for all res and dps


    Question: What to do now?
    i wanna reach those 300k dps unbuffed - any suggestions?
    its really hard to reach that dps point as CMWW


    For reference http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/jalatiphra-2532/Jalatiphra/120019

    The biggest dps upgrade would be innas pants, with those and some other upgrade i could reach 3.0 attacks per second.
    but this would require me to find an amulet quintfecta + at least 450loh. I never seen this even once.

    Yet innas would only pump dps bei 10k, thats still 30k to go.
  • #31
    what up guys? nothing to tell me? maybe tell me that ?:D
  • #32
    Quote from Jalatiphra

    what up guys? nothing to tell me? maybe tell me that ?:D


    Not really. You're at the point where you're making logical upgrades bit by bit, unlike players who dump gold into totally random items and wonder why they don't do damage and why they keep dying.

    This is my SNS wizard for reference: http://d3up.com/b/577960/aesthia-sns

    DPS far higher than when I used to run 3.01 APS, but EHP is far lower.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #33
    did you actually praise me ?

    dude if you do that ill get all over my head :D

    oki, i see no big difference between your and my gear. except for innas pants and more int and some more attack speed here and there.

    so iam pretty much left with little by little incremental upgrades.

    DAMNIT this will cost a fortune^^

    thanks anyway jaetch, i somehow expected that answer but did not want to hear it :D
  • #34
    http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/yvonnegyf-1811/ChrisBrown/23116779

    There's this girl on my friends list and she's one stacked SNS wizard.

    Oh, and let's not forget my buddy Charlatan, a.k.a. SNS God: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/charlatan-1802/Thornwind/11651196

    More references of some of my friends with who have >300K DPS as SNS:
    http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/yodatoy-1838/masterwizard/14925206
    http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/void-1872/Afternight/28108684
    http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/junger-1623/Monserrat/3389079 (almost 300K)
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #35
    You're Wiz looks good. I'd up your armor/resists a bit to comfortably run full SNS on mp10.

    You can reference mine if you'd like. 3 aps, 52CC, 4.4k armor, 880resists.
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/RasAlgethi-1511/hero/33374459

    That Charlatan guy Jaetch posted is close to perfect.
  • #36
    sure more armor and resists are nice to have, but since i really dont die if dont kiss a Tree or a fanatic, its not a primary factor for choosing the next upgrade.

    anyhow i watched at all t he > 300k cms, and basically i just need a little more stat here and there - i have the right items , but every item needs a little morre stats +1% attackspeed, +1% crit +10 int + 50 average damage.

    kk this will come over time.
    thanks guys

    PS: i would give my soul for Charlatan's Zuni Pox :D
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