Save lots of gold for one upgrade OR a few cheaper things

  • #21
    RasAlgethi and Jaetch are two examples of cm wizards with huge ehp, great damage but no lifesteal/loh/apoc... I always found these to be very useful things on most wizards in general, how do you guys get by without those sustaining things? Is your ehp just so high that you are never threatened by anything?

    I'm assuming you guys are farming mp10 with those setups/builds. What are your attack speeds also? I see so many debates between the right attack speed be it 2.5, 2.7 or even 3.0aps but some of the higher end wizards could seriously give a fuck cm/ww or not.

    I feel like I'm missing something in terms of what a "good" build is... is that type of archon build with that gear setup for mid-mp speed runs or for uber bosses or high mp? Is that the best applicable method with that level of gear?
  • #22
    I think what you saw was my Archon set up. I currently have the cm set up on my profile. Take a look at that.

    As far as the specifics, I hit 3.04 aps, 18apoc, 439loh+1.5ls from blood magic (which according to the calc gives is the equivalent of about 650loh).

    I only run Archon for mp6 and lower. That was primarily just to paragon run and farm. Anything above mp6 I run CM.
  • #23
    They have the CM passive spec'ed, but they're not running around smashing keys like the usual CMWW wizards. It's a completely different build Jaetch introduced a long time ago. Almost every wizard uses CM as passive, but in this case it has absolutely no resemblance to the CMWW play style. With Archon/LL you don't need APoC because you're only running Archon and the signature spell Living Lightning; you don't need high APS because Archon doesn't care much. Jaetch even has it written in his Diabloprogress comments that he has a CMWW gear for ubers etc.

    Edit: and yeah, with a million EHP like Jaetch has, you're fine with Blood Magic only. Lots of people go with Blood Magic only or some life after kill on weapon/rings/amulet while running Archon - LS is just so expensive and not necessary anymore as of 1.07 if you're not a pure glass canon.
  • #24
    Everything is very clear to me now... thanks Bagstone and RasAlgethi... I'll also study Jaetch's guide just so I can remember it.

    Now that minimal life on hit seems fine in conjunction with blood weapon I guess I can ditch my zuni's chest and go for a tal rasha's :\

    Trade in these Depth Diggers for Blacks or Inna's

    Find a high speed/apoc chantodo with some damage

    Find an AS/CC amulet/bracers... (though for crit and such I really wonder if I should invest in Natalya's shoes and ring :\ but then what do i do bout zuni's pox??) This Zuni stuff was a really bad choice.

    Analysis paralysis getting to me again... The one big thing I gleaned from all this is that my Crit Damage (a coveted stat to me as I liked archon) was overvalued and that I should have just gone for cc/as on everything first and left CD to my weapon primarily (but now investing in a chantodo's with ias I dunno that I can even accomplish crit dam).

    I don't have the money to be super duper with two builds so I feel like I should just commit fully to cmww until I get the money for more sets since cmww is the alpha for all things wizard (sans low mp speed runs).
  • #25
    Also Ras, grats on the sickest amulet craft ever. I've only attempted 8 so far but I don't see myself getting that for a good while.
  • #26
    ^Thanks! I've done a lot of crafts though. Maybe around 4-500 of everything combined.
  • #27
    As Bagstone said, at high EHP with good mitigation (overall I have close to 90% damage reduction, 93% in Archon form), Blood Magic is enough, even on MP10. My CM set has around 87% damage reduction and 90K HP, but the 3.01+ APS to go with the 500ish LoH and Blood Magic is enough to sustain me, if I get around 1,000 LoH or so, I can get rid of Blood Magic, but I chose the easy way out.

    That's why you see a vast majority of CM/WW wizards stack a ton of armor and resistances in order to make each point of health mean that much more.

    And just a tidbit on life steal weapons for Archon. My old weapon was valued at around 750M to 1 billion gold before 1.07. Now similar weapons are around 250-350M gold. So glad I sold mine before the patch. Getting one will still make Archon much easier to run on mid to high MPs, but a better long-term route to take would be upping your EHP.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #28
    I really wanted to be in on that EHP train which is why I felt so on-point getting a 3 piece Zuni's bonus including a decent Pox... but now I feel like I've missed the mark in both build cohesiveness AND ehp.

    Thanks again for the clarification Jaetch.


    OT Edit: 1.0.8 sounds pretty cool! Game seems to be going in a great direction.
  • #29
    So I'm seeing a lot of different setups, each with Life on hit on a Ring, Amulet or Pants... (in very very few cases on weapon), so how do you decide where to put that life on hit so you can devote the rest to trifecta stats and such (or in pants case Inna's)?

    Edit: Also do no wizards ever get blackthorne's pants AND amulet? seems like a lot of great stats between them... or is that just too much?
  • #30
    Oh sure, it's a good combo. But Blackthorne's amulet with high crit is usually so expensive that you're better off with a rare amulet with same stats + 100 vit extra that make up for the set bonus. But if you can get it, absolutely worth it.
  • #31
    The short discussion is BT pants + one of (SC, Amulet, ring) to reach 800-1000 LoH. If you use Inna's, you probably should get LoH from amulet.

    Where you get LoH depends mostly on how you plan to reach breakpoints. If you plan to use Inna's to reach a breakpoint (I recommend against it unless at really high gear levels), then you can't get it on pants. If you plan to use a mempo, you can't get it on helm. That leaves amulet and rings. Amulet is the best because you can roll over 900 on one item, which leaves rings free for dps stats. Otherwise, 2xLoH on rings works too.

    If you use BT pants, you might not need LoH on any other pieces if you play carefully (though I prefer 900-1000 LoH). Same with using SC (though SC+BT pants are great). If you use BT pants but mempo helm, you can get LoH from a unity (I think that's what it's called). Those are pretty beastly for CMWW. Otherwise you can get LoH from either ring, like 300-400 should be sufficient with the BT LoH. If you want a bit more, you can get LoH from the amulet and run over 1k, though it's not really needed anymore.

    As for BT 2pc, yes, some use it. I ran it for a while and the amulet is a great source of hp. The downside is the crit+int versions are a bit on the expensive side so I switched to a rare and just suffer with the lower HP. Still, if you want the extra HP or need more hp, it's not a bad combo.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #32
    I use to run blackthrone's pants + amulet but I got a better rare amulet and it freed me from being stuck with black throne's pants which allows more set up flexibility. Blackthrone's is a good set up though. You can get a 100+intel/9ias/8cc bt ammy for around 100mil.
  • #33
    Switched out my Zuni's chest for a Tal Rasha and Depth Diggers for Blackthorne's... Also got a crit+as amulet.

    When the servers back up I'll be surveying the wreckage of my poor past choices. I'm trying to get as much out of 10m as I can while maintaining +150k damage but I feel like I've just lost a lot of AR/ehp...

    Gonna need to get cracking on some new shoulders. I wish crafting would swing more my way but 100 crafts later, nothing much except for nice gloves. I hope I've made some good financial choices finally but it seems no big steps can be made from here without spending big money.

    Trying to stay away from gold purchasing from RMAH as it has become quite dangerous in times past. On the other hand I'm awful at making 100s of millions farming in game but I'm great at working part time shifts at a restaurant for the equivalent dollar value.

    Hard to rationalize.
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