What upgrade next for archon-cm/ww hybrid?

  • #1
    Sup everyone!

    I recently started to get serious with D3 again on my wizard. I've read the forums and started to farm act3 as an archon after some struggle to gear up in act1-2. I'm only doing mp0 and mp1 at the moment to farm gold and xp for paragon. Im about to hit level 30.

    Ultimately, i'd like to be able to tackle higher mp levels to get myself an hellfire ring as cm/ww. I managed to scramble 35 millions so far with my best sale been a stormshield for 9 millions. I obviously can't afford a full set of gear that would be efficient as cm/ww at the moment. So... what piece should i upgrade next? Possibly something that would boost my archon efficiency farming while been good for cm/ww later down the road. If i can manage mp2 as fast as mp0, that would be awesome for paragon and farming efficiency.

    I can't post links yet so i'd appreciate if an older member could do it for me. I just signed up to write this post. Battletag is Aekys#1669.

    Thanks in advance!

    P.s. I have found most of the gears im wearing except the Triumvirate and the Lacunis. I was very happy when Tal chest armor and Zunni's boots dropped, even if they aren't stellar rolls.

    Edit: typos
  • #2
  • #3
    For paragon/farming efficiency you don't necessarily need to go to MP2, MP0 is fine.

    What are your goals, gearing up your Archon or gearing up as CMWW in order to get a Hellfire Ring? Do you play on your own or do you play in a group? In particular for the Hellfire Ring farming you should get some mates to help you out, as it's a pain to do that on your own (low budget CMWW builds have not much DPS and it takes ages to get the keys, and you won't be able to defeat the ubers fast enough on higher MPs due to the enrage timer).

    For CMWW, you need to switch a lot of gear, i.e., you want around 5-10% more crit chance, you need APoC on one more slot (weapon or helm - most people go for weapon), and you need life on hit (life steal with CMWW only works if you have really insane dps, LoH is better in most cases, especially when you're gearing up). A wand with IAS, LoH, APoC, amulet/rings with more crit and LoH, and maybe Blackthorne's pants would be something to start looking for when gearing up for CMWW. Last but not least, you might want a bit more resistances and life for higher MPs - not that much more, but definitely not less than now.

    Why exactly are you using a signature spell? You have APoC and good attack speed, you should be fine with a non-signature spell on left click (Energy Twister with Wicked Wind or Mistral Breeze, Disintegrate, ... whatever you like).

    As for upgrading your Archon, there's not really one spot that stands out as particularly weak. Depending on the economy of the US AH, maybe look for a Mempo, some gloves, rings, Lacuni with crit, ... I'd suggest you load your character into d3up.com and use the d3bit.com tool to check how much dps/ehp you would gain from any potential purchase. It really simplifies purchasing a lot.
  • #4
    Quote from Bagstone
    For paragon/farming efficiency you don't necessarily need to go to MP2, MP0 is fine.

    What I meant by mp2 is that I’d like to eventually run mp2 in archon and have it feels like mp0. My xp/hours would be greater and you gain extra mf as bonus.
    Quote from Bagstone
    What are your goals, gearing up your Archon or gearing up as CMWW in order to get a Hellfire Ring? Do you play on your own or do you play in a group? In particular for the Hellfire Ring farming you should get some mates to help you out, as it's a pain to do that on your own (low budget CMWW builds have not much DPS and it takes ages to get the keys, and you won't be able to defeat the ubers fast enough on higher MPs due to the enrage timer).

    My goal is to upgrade my archon first to farm efficiently until I can graduate into a full-fledged cm/ww. I play alone 95% of the time because of my hectic work schedule. I’d like to have as much hybrid gear as possible that could used for both archon and cm/ww beside the mandatory Apoc pieces. Possibly even spec into archon instead of explosive blast like Loroese proposed in someone else topic.

    Quote from Bagstone
    For CMWW, you need to switch a lot of gear, i.e., you want around 5-10% more crit chance, you need APoC on one more slot (weapon or helm - most people go for weapon), and you need life on hit (life steal with CMWW only works if you have really insane dps, LoH is better in most cases, especially when you're gearing up). A wand with IAS, LoH, APoC, amulet/rings with more crit and LoH, and maybe Blackthorne's pants would be something to start looking for when gearing up for CMWW. Last but not least, you might want a bit more resistances and life for higher MPs - not that much more, but definitely not less than now.

    You listed almost every slots xD, I’m still confused as to what I should upgrade first.

    Quote from Bagstone
    Why exactly are you using a signature spell? You have APoC and good attack speed, you should be fine with a non-signature spell on left click (Energy Twister with Wicked Wind or Mistral Breeze, Disintegrate, ... whatever you like).

    I tried ww for when I fail at archon and need to reset the timer but with only 1 Apoc piece, it didn’t work. Piercing orb lets me kill mobs and keep moving while archon is down. I also tend to use it to kill my first elites pack if I meet it before I’ve found a large enough pack of monster to pop archon. I’ll try a spender like disintegrate for sure. I really didn’t liked RoF though because of the lack of aoe. Didn’t think of disintegrate, d’oh!

    Quote from Bagstone
    As for upgrading your Archon, there's not really one spot that stands out as particularly weak. Depending on the economy of the US AH, maybe look for a Mempo, some gloves, rings, Lacuni with crit, ... I'd suggest you load your character into d3up.com and use the d3bit.com tool to check how much dps/ehp you would gain from any potential purchase. It really simplifies purchasing a lot.

    Will do, thanks!
  • #5
    If you have AP issues and don't want to run APoC, try using Shock Pulse-Living Lightning if you run high enough crit chance and attack speed. It works well for hybrid CM stunlock-Archon builds.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #6
    My suggestion for refreshing Archon, get a cheap weapon with high LoH and 10 APoC. The dps doesn't matter. Switch to it if your Archon falls off and you have more than a couple seconds and with 2 APoC pieces you'll be able to refresh Archon very fast. I keep an OH and wand in my bags for that and it works great. I tried using sig spell or various other spells but they're too slow at refreshing WW and in the end I'd rather just refresh my Archon than wander around killing stuff much more slowly with sig spell.

    To farm MP2 somewhat efficiently you'll probably want around 150k dps, which isn't too hard to achieve anymore as Archon. The resists and armor needed aren't that demanding either. I'm running with about 240k EHP in Archon with Storm armor - Scramble and it works alright. I think your current armor and resists will be mostly fine, so try to maintain or slightly improve those.

    Gear suggestions: Weapon, the dps is horribly low, and it's a slow weapon. Faster weapons will give you more char sheet dps because it gives more dps contribution from your OH. Weapons with Life Steal are getting expensive though, so I'd just look for one with LS and a socket, preferably a wand, sword, or dagger, and get a decently high dps one with all physical damage. Helm: for Archon, switch to an Andriel's Visage. You can get one with over 200 Int for maximum dps, 160ish int with 70 resists for max survivability, or a socket for extra xp (or life% gem for more survival if needed).

    Gearing for CM is a bit trickier, but you can try just switching a few pieces and slapping together a rough set that works for ubers and key farming. That's what I did. I'd start with a Storm Crow helm for your 2nd APoC source. They're dirt cheap and have vit+LoH as an added bonus. You only get 1 random roll on it so I'd go for extra resists for survival. Crit is an option but they're 5mil+ just for 3% crit. Then, aim for 40% crit buffed, before Scoundrel bonus. That means replacing your IAS ring with a crit one (try for 4.5% crit+). I'd even suggest replacing the other ring with one that has more crit%, just ignore the crit damage and it should only run a couple hundred k, though armor or resists on it would be a huge bonus. You'll want crit on bracers since you'll likely lose it on your helm, so look for a cheap pair with 50+resist, 100 or so int, 4.5% crit, plus armor and/or vit, hopefully for cheap (couple hundred k). Finally, grab an amulet with more crit (8%+). You can get a cheap one with all resist, int, vit, armor, and crit% hopefully (couple hundred k ideally). Blackthorn pants is recommended also, but you can wait on those if you want. They're pretty cheap now though and the extra LoH is nice.

    Approximate crit gains: 4.5% from ring 1, 2% from ring 2, 0.5% from swapping helm for crit bracers, 2-3% from amulet = 9-10% crit gain. That should put you over 40%, closer to 50% with pinpoint.

    My starting CM stats for MP5-7 is 300k EHP with 30k HP buffed, 40% crit, 16APoC, 500-900 LoH. I don't prioritize attack speed when first gearing so anything around 1.5-2 should be fine. Higher crit, APoC, and EHP is preferable but you can get by just fine with those stats. Don't listen to the people telling you that 2.5 attack speed is mandatory. I swap 6 pieces between my Archon and CM specs: weapon (optional, but I went with a fast dagger with slightly higher dps but no LS for CM), OH (optional, but non APoC OHs are pretty cheap), helm, pants, 1 ring and amulet.

    Finally, I don't ever remember saying to drop explosiveblast for Archon in a CM build. If anything I'd say drop the last skill, which is usually teleport, Time Warp, or Magic Weapon, if you really want Archon. I haven't found the need and I really like teleport for the extra survivability. It really is best to just have 2 different builds for Archon vs CM, since you'll usually only use Archon at lower MP and only CM at higher MP.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #7
    Alright! New weapon and Andy's visage for starters. I'll stick to archon for now and eat my crumbs for a while. No way i can afford all those cm/ww gears yet. I could but i'd sacrifice all dps and it would be too slow. Regarding the ww/cm -archon hybrid, i probably confused Loroese with someone else suggestion. Maybe Jaetch? The general idea was to clear thrash with archon when available and fall back on cm/ww for elites with the 1600% weapon dps archon pop on cooldown with a quick cancel right after.

    Anyways, it's very neat to see this forum so active with a lot of helpful people. Thanks! I'll keep upping this thread to keep you guys posted.
  • #8
    Yeah, that was something I was thinking and probably mentioned, Archon just for the Arcane destruction, but that was in place of teleport, not EB.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #9
    It's been two weeks alredy. Didn't have much time to play but i managed to grab a few upgrade after loading my character on D3 upgrade site(no url rule) as suggested. The best stat to increase for dps gain was by far ias% so i brought 2 new rings and an amulet. Crit dmg% was too expensive for my budget so i went with +average dmg instead. Also managed to find a cheap andariel visage. My EHP went down a little bit though and I find myself dying a lil bit more, mostly to stupid packs like the reflect/fast ground stomper in the field of slaughter. I'm also no longer even on life gain vs reflect and need be mindful not to kill myself with a few crits.

    Weapon wise, anything with life steal and a socket above 1,1k dmg is waaaaay above my budget. Pretty sure everyone is suffering from the same problem but gold is nowhere to be found on the ah. I can hardly sell legendary for more than 50-100k if they are sellable at all. I'll keep farming mp0 act3 for now and hope to get a lucky find.

    I also brougth a wand with 10 apoc and ias% to reset archon timer when I get unlucky with wicked wind. However, it's hardly effective since anything besides large mobs like golgor and stomper dies in 2-3 ticks. Go figures, but the cheapest wand when I searched had 850 dmg so thrash vaporize before CM start ticking. I'll look again to grab a 300-500 wand instead I guess.

    So yea, nothing amazing so far, always open to suggestion!
  • #10
    You can also switch to a very low damage OH for Archon refresh. I don't have any APoC on my Archon gear so I swap both MH and OH for 20 APoC. It drops my dps down to 80k or so but I still kill things pretty fast on MP2 with that, though it usually works well at refreshing Archon after just a few mobs. Another suggestion is if you have a long refresh on the timer, start IDing some items to kill time since you'll have to do that anyway eventually.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #11
    If mobs are dropping so fast with WW, you could try Living Lightning. Also don't need APoC for it.
  • #12
    It's been a little while :) Didn't have much time to play but still managed to gather 66 millions (i don't play the auction house, it's all grinded)

    With 1.07 on the way and the incoming buff to xp on higher monster power, i was thinking about forming a group to farm mp6-10. I'd go shocknado with speed bubble(or 20% dmg if i'm fine on ias) for group instead of meteors with electrify weapon for thrash. Monk for aura, barb for buff and the last spot watever. Another cmww would make it easier for me but a resonating spike trap DH or an acid blob WD are probably more dps. Looking to fill up my friend list if anyone is interessted btw, everyone i know went back to WoW.

    Should i start by buying a LoH Chantodo MH and OH? Dunno if i'd have enough to afford a decet witching hour after that.
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