BIS Gear setups (1.0.6)

  • #41
    There are damage affixes and there are two handed damage affixes and there are fast damage affixes.

    A sword/axe/mace/spear/wand uses the base damage affixes which can go up to 286-667 additional damage
    A dagger (or hand crossbow) uses the fast damage affixes which can go up to 250-583 additional damage

    compare: http://d3inferno.com/affixes/ArcaneD_14_Fast.html and http://d3inferno.com/affixes/ArcaneD_14_104.html
  • #42
    Quote from TheDemokin

    Quote from Kieble

    The weapon is a huge difference. A 1h Sword with IAS will always be the top DPS dealer. Sword > Dagger > Wand for ultimate dps. So using a Wand in your diagram is a huge loss of possible DPS.
    Weapon base attack speed scales the final DPS via +average damage modifiers on rings / amulets, etc. There is no way a 1.4 sword is going to beat a 1.5 base dagger given the same weapon DPS. (Unless the swords can, for some reason, roll a higher DPS than a dagger, which i am not aware of. I could be wrong and swords could roll higher damage ranges - i am not able to find the exact +min/min damages for swords vs daggers. Which is somewhat supported by the data provided from the actual existing items on diabloprogress.com swords / maces / spears / axes seem to go up to 1.4k while daggers highest are 1.2k O.o)

    In fact it doesn't matter what the item is called, it could be called a 'swift shovel', as long as it has 1.4 attack base attack speed and same DPS the resulting DPS of the character is going to be the same. Apologies, but your argument here is invalid.

    Quote from Kieble

    Without the buffs there is still a big difference. The difference comes in things like boots not being max dps provided. And other small things where the most dps isn't pulled out of all slots. Ours however isn't taking in as much of an effort for EHP, we just picked max stats after all dps stats were rolled. The EHP is still huge, but after 500k isn't a major gain where more DPS after 500k is, so that's why we chose to maximize DPS stats.
    My numbers are skewed towards DPS with every item having maximum DPS rolls, resulting EHP is the result of the extra rolls on each item. Hence your argument here is completely invalid.

    Quote from Kieble

    As for D3UP, it is a great tool - no arguments there. However, it is missing a lot of things, and some of the calculations are off by slight amounts. It rounds in some places, and doesn't in others. It also isn't very easy to do new gearing compared to other tools. You may like D3Up, and that's fine. However, the one we have is specifically tailored for wizards, tested by wizards, and allows for much more precise information for wizards. Everything that the d3up does, the dpsCalc does plus much more for wizards. however, it's a personal thing. Some people like to use Excel, that's their choice, doesn't make it wrong however.
    Lets begin by saying that so far i have used D3UP.com for 3 characters, the resulting numbers of DPS from d3up.com are exact to the decimal when compared to the ingame DPS shown in the character sheet. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with "some of the calculations are off by slight amounts".
    Secondly - you really cannot say that this tool is "specialized for wizards". This is absolutely obscene statement. Every class in the game scales the unbuffed DPS on the character sheet exactly the same, be it monk, WD, barb, wizard or DH. The benefits of CD, CC, primary stat, etc are exactly the same for every class. What makes the difference is the buffs that particular class has, for example a barb is always going to be the higher DPS after passives, simply because noone else has a total of 15% CC and 50% CD added from passives with CC scaling like mad on higher DPS levels.
    In this thread we are not talking about the final character DPS with skills, we are not interested in that here, we are talking about pure raw DPS of gear setup from the character without using passives or any buffs. These are the reasons why the main source of comparison of difference characters today is the UNBUFFED DPS. That allows for a comparison between any class.
    I'm sorry, but the entire paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

    No personal feelings here, just facts. The amount of misinformation going around is really mind boggling.


    Wow, such rudeness in response, but whatever, i'll state my case either way.

    1.) Sword have the highest total DPS that can roll, so yes, you are wrong. If you had cared to look through the thread that I had posted that you're arguing with, we even go over that subject (i mean it's only 3 pages, is it really that hard?).

    2.) In your top DPS build you are using Ice Walkers. Ice Walkers are absolutely no where near top DPS. However, they are great EHP. Zunimassi's when you're using a Black Weapon is a much higher dmg dealer. That was one case I even mentioned but you failed to answer that and just said you're right i'm wrong? Doesn't make sense.

    3.) Again if you had read the thread I linked instead of coming off as a jackas, you would have realized that we did buffed DPS. So the ability to add buffs was nice. Guess what? The tool lets you add any buff, and gives you a lot of passive buffs that other calcs don't (frost nova for example). I linked where we had already done what you are doing, a site where we had done it (that in essence isn't any different then yours only it's more tailored directly to wizards and not to all classes). Your rude attitude for my suggestion to read another thread is quite OBSCENE as you so eloquently said.

    I said the tool was more catered to wizards as it allow buffs other tools do not. (Can you compare MW vs MW w/ Force Weapn vs Familiar w/ Sparkflint easily? No?) Just cause your specific example where you don't need buffs, doesn't require the extra features of a tool doesn't make it "obscene" for me to say having those features makes it more specific towards wizards.


    Edit: My point for posting in this thread was to say "Here, we did this over on B.net, see if you can build on it and find something we didn't, this is what we used, as it was more tailored to what we were doing (buffed dps)". Seems like the help wasn't wanted even though you said to post if you had ideas of things you were missing (which you were a bunch).
  • #43


    It is so nice that we have people here who take the time to do theorycrafting, develop helpful tools, think about guides, or simply post things like BiS lists.

    However, it would also be nice if everyone could calm down. This thread is a few inches away from getting derailed and being turned into a flamewar.

    TheDemokin: all three authors of the probably "best" theorycrafting tools are active on these forums (Loroese, Kieble, Jesta). They all spent a lot of time creating these tools. Everyone has their favorite, but nevertheless we have a choice among different tools in the first place, which is great. We should feel privileged and not make this place unpleasant for any of them.

    Keep up the good work, consider the constructive feedback, and try to ignore everything else. Otherwise this thread will be over soon, which would be a pitty because it started out really well.
  • #44
    Quote from itirnitii

    isn't the min/max damage two rolls and not one?

    Even though it lists xx-xx, it's just simplified to one line I though, but is really a +min damage and +max damage roll.

    Is this not true?

    Nope!

    There are 3 affixes for it:
    • +X Minimum Damage
    • +X Maximum Damage
    • +X-Y Damage
    Also, there's a bug currently in existence that if an item rolls '+X-Y Damage' AND a '+X Minimum' or '+X Maximum', only the '+X-Y Damage' will show on the item (and not include/add the other numbers). Your character gains the benefits of the hidden affix on the item, but the affix doesn't show up on the tooltip.

    If you have a piece of jewelry with '+X-Y Damage', goto the AH and right click on it and 'Search for Similar Items'. If the value it populates in the AH Search Window is NOT the average of those two numbers, than the item has a 'Hidden Affix' and that item actually has stats you cannot see. If the number is the average, then there are no hidden values on it.
  • #45
    Quote from TheDemokin

    Jesta, could you guys perhaps include Loroese's CMWW simulator into d3up.com eventually? That would make life pretty damn awesome. Also are there any news on the wizard tDPS as it has been implemented for barbs?

    Well, I don't wanna steal Loroese's thunder. If he ever wants to work together on it, I'd be happy to chat.

    In terms of the wizard tDPS, I haven't done any research on it yet, but if you wanna pm/email me with some info (or even post here) and point me to someplace I can read about it, I'd be happy to implement it. If it's the same math as the WW/RltW Barb, it'll be super easy.
  • #46
    Quote from Jesta

    Quote from TheDemokin

    Jesta, could you guys perhaps include Loroese's CMWW simulator into d3up.com eventually? That would make life pretty damn awesome. Also are there any news on the wizard tDPS as it has been implemented for barbs?

    Well, I don't wanna steal Loroese's thunder. If he ever wants to work together on it, I'd be happy to chat.

    In terms of the wizard tDPS, I haven't done any research on it yet, but if you wanna pm/email me with some info (or even post here) and point me to someplace I can read about it, I'd be happy to implement it. If it's the same math as the WW/RltW Barb, it'll be super easy.

    You're more than welcome to use any or all of my information posted on the forums, including my simulator. That's partly why I post it in the first place. I'd also be more than happy to chat about any parts of it, even if you just want to use the code to add to something you're doing. As it stands, it doesn't sound like many people are using it, which isn't surprising because MATLAB is a very expensive engineering platform.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #47
    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from Jesta

    Quote from TheDemokin

    Jesta, could you guys perhaps include Loroese's CMWW simulator into d3up.com eventually? That would make life pretty damn awesome. Also are there any news on the wizard tDPS as it has been implemented for barbs?

    Well, I don't wanna steal Loroese's thunder. If he ever wants to work together on it, I'd be happy to chat.

    In terms of the wizard tDPS, I haven't done any research on it yet, but if you wanna pm/email me with some info (or even post here) and point me to someplace I can read about it, I'd be happy to implement it. If it's the same math as the WW/RltW Barb, it'll be super easy.

    You're more than welcome to use any or all of my information posted on the forums, including my simulator. That's partly why I post it in the first place. I'd also be more than happy to chat about any parts of it, even if you just want to use the code to add to something you're doing. As it stands, it doesn't sound like many people are using it, which isn't surprising because MATLAB is a very expensive engineering platform.

    Nice, hope you guys can work it out and get the tDPS going for wizards as well as the CM simulator built in :P
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    -- Albert Einstein

  • #48
    Quote from Kieble

    1.) Sword have the highest total DPS that can roll, so yes, you are wrong. If you had cared to look through the thread that I had posted that you're arguing with, we even go over that subject (i mean it's only 3 pages, is it really that hard?).

    I will bring you back to your previous post:
    Quote from Kieble

    The weapon is a huge difference. A 1h Sword with IAS will always be the top DPS dealer. Sword > Dagger > Wand for ultimate dps. So using a Wand in your diagram is a huge loss of possible DPS.

    This is absolute blashpemy. Wand and sword can both roll exact same +DMG stats. This is apparent even if you skip any 'possibilities' just looking at the reality: The swords and wands are on par, while daggers not being able to roll that +dmg modifier is quite obvious with them losing out nearly 200 top DPS on the highest end range. What i stated in my post is that IF a dagger rolls the same DPS - then the dagger is going to be a clear winner, as for using a sword vs wand - makes absolutely no difference since both can roll exact same +dmg modifiers and have exact same attack speed.

    Also, the sword you are using in your setup is not possible:

    Main hand sword
    604.5 - 1493.25
    1.4 aps
    11% ias
    200 int
    100 crit dam + socket = 200 crit dam

    +50% dmg = roll 1
    +min damage = roll 2
    +max damage = roll 3
    +AIS = roll 4
    +socket = roll 5
    +100 CD = roll 6
    +200 INT = roll 7

    Quote from Kieble

    2.) In your top DPS build you are using Ice Walkers. Ice Walkers are absolutely no where near top DPS. However, they are great EHP. Zunimassi's when you're using a Black Weapon is a much higher dmg dealer. That was one case I even mentioned but you failed to answer that and just said you're right i'm wrong? Doesn't make sense.

    You are right that Zuni boots are going to provide more DPS, i've updated the table to show that. Your initial statement was vague implying nothing was optimized for DPS when only the boots were missing, could have simply pointed that out.

    Quote from Kieble

    3.) Again if you had read the thread I linked instead of coming off as a jackas, you would have realized that we did buffed DPS. So the ability to add buffs was nice. Guess what? The tool lets you add any buff, and gives you a lot of passive buffs that other calcs don't (frost nova for example). I linked where we had already done what you are doing, a site where we had done it (that in essence isn't any different then yours only it's more tailored directly to wizards and not to all classes). Your rude attitude for my suggestion to read another thread is quite OBSCENE as you so eloquently said.

    I said the tool was more catered to wizards as it allow buffs other tools do not. (Can you compare MW vs MW w/ Force Weapn vs Familiar w/ Sparkflint easily? No?) Just cause your specific example where you don't need buffs, doesn't require the extra features of a tool doesn't make it "obscene" for me to say having those features makes it more specific towards wizards.

    I quite clearly expressed that the DPS here is unbuffed and quite clearly expressed that buffed DPS is really not a good comparison for any purposes. Unbuffed DPS is the real comparison, hence anywhere you go people post / talk / compare / diabloprogress.com all use unbuffed DPS.
    Seeing a pure buffed DPS does not really make any sense, even if you take into account FN, etc, for the simple fact that if you really want to go that way - then you should be looking for tDPS instead of just sheet DPS buffed that way. tDPS will have to include simulation of the actual skill usage etc. Hence the whole idea of using buffed DPS does not make any sense.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    -- Albert Einstein

  • #49
    Theoretically
    Quote from Jaetch

    Oh, it's interesting how the BIS wand in your calculator said 1304.1 DPS and crit damage is 98% (why not 100?).

    Here's the BIS wand minus 68 intelligence:



    One of the top wizards in the U.S. linked me these and asked if I wanted to buy it for 8 billion gold. Unfortunately, I required more minerals... er, gold. Er... cash.

    Now it's in the #1 U.S. wizard's hand. He's on my friends list so I get to stare at it every single day...

    Theoretically speaking, the best wand in the world could have 1500 dps. Here is some math.

    Highest minimum base damage on a wand is 122 with the highest damage modifier of 316 - 727 dmg + 50% dmg modifier + 11% IAS bonus.

    Min dmg = (122 + 316) * 1.50 = 657 dmg
    Max dmg = (122 + 727) * 1.50 = 1273.5 dmg
    Average dmg = (657 + 1273.5) / 2 = 965.25 dmg
    Attack speed = 1.40 * 1.11 = 1.554 APS
    DPS = 965.25 * 1.554 = 1499.9985 DPS

    Add in highest damage offhand of 130 - 484 the new numbers come out to
    min dmg = 787
    max dmg = 1757.5
    average dmg =1272.25
    DPS = 1977.0765

    Now the theoretical maximum dps with a dagger.
    Min dmg (70 + 316) * 1.50 = 579 dmg
    Max dmg = (70 + 727) * 1.50 = 1195.5 dmg
    Average dmg = (579 + 1195.5) / 2 = 887.25 dmg
    Attack speed = 1.50 * 1.11 = 1.665 APS
    DPS = 887.25 * 1.665 = 1477.27125 DPS

    Add in offhand dmg again and
    min dmg = 709
    max dmg = 1679.5
    avg dmg = 1194.25
    DPS = 1988.42625

    As you can see the difference between dagger and wand is very very small, but dagger does win out for those who were wondering.
  • #50
    Quote from Speaker

    Theoretically speaking, the best wand in the world could have 1500 dps. Here is some math.

    Highest minimum base damage on a wand is 122 with the highest damage modifier of 316 - 727 dmg + 50% dmg modifier + 11% IAS bonus.

    Min dmg = (122 + 316) * 1.50 = 657 dmg
    Max dmg = (122 + 727) * 1.50 = 1273.5 dmg
    Average dmg = (657 + 1273.5) / 2 = 965.25 dmg
    Attack speed = 1.40 * 1.11 = 1.554 APS
    DPS = 965.25 * 1.554 = 1499.9985 DPS

    But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).


    Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #51
    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from Speaker

    Theoretically speaking, the best wand in the world could have 1500 dps. Here is some math.

    Highest minimum base damage on a wand is 122 with the highest damage modifier of 316 - 727 dmg + 50% dmg modifier + 11% IAS bonus.

    Min dmg = (122 + 316) * 1.50 = 657 dmg
    Max dmg = (122 + 727) * 1.50 = 1273.5 dmg
    Average dmg = (657 + 1273.5) / 2 = 965.25 dmg
    Attack speed = 1.40 * 1.11 = 1.554 APS
    DPS = 965.25 * 1.554 = 1499.9985 DPS

    But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).


    Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?

    Yes you could. There is a max of 6 affixes, so +min and max dmg +% dmg +ias +int +socket +crit. That is 6. The +min and max dmg is one affix. It is the same thing as the +elemental dmg affixes, it is just displayed differently. Also I redid some of my calculations to include the added offhand dmg and compared that to the theoretically best dagger.

    Edit: I now realize what you mean. All wands are forced to have one affix dedicated to a wizard specific affix. How unfortunate. I never knew this because it is not the same for other class specific items. It seems to only apply to wizard and witch doctor specific weapons.
  • #52
    Quote from Loroese

    But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).
    Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?

    I've tried the AIS on the profile setup instead of the 200 INT it was approximately 17k DPS loss, i was curious about that too yesterday heh.

    Quote from Speaker

    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from Speaker

    Theoretically speaking, the best wand in the world could have 1500 dps. Here is some math.

    Highest minimum base damage on a wand is 122 with the highest damage modifier of 316 - 727 dmg + 50% dmg modifier + 11% IAS bonus.

    Min dmg = (122 + 316) * 1.50 = 657 dmg
    Max dmg = (122 + 727) * 1.50 = 1273.5 dmg
    Average dmg = (657 + 1273.5) / 2 = 965.25 dmg
    Attack speed = 1.40 * 1.11 = 1.554 APS
    DPS = 965.25 * 1.554 = 1499.9985 DPS

    But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).


    Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?

    Yes you could. There is a max of 6 affixes, so +min and max dmg +% dmg +ias +int +socket +crit. That is 6. The +min and max dmg is one affix. It is the same thing as the +elemental dmg affixes, it is just displayed differently. Also I redid some of my calculations to include the added offhand dmg and compared that to the theoretically best dagger.

    Edit: I now realize what you mean. All wands are forced to have one affix dedicated to a wizard specific affix. How unfortunate. I never knew this because it is not the same for other class specific items. It seems to only apply to wizard and witch doctor specific weapons.

    I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
    +min dmg
    +max dmg
    +min-max dmg
    As far as i can see the min-max range does not produce the same DPS as the 2 separate affixes do. (you can check in the diabloprogress all the top DPS items are 2 separate affixes +min and +max damage not the min/max range?) Also, i would seriously question the correction of the maximum possible 1'500 DPS wand - the game has been out for what? 6 months? With millions of players farming, billions of wands have been identified so far, yet the highest DPS ever detected so far is 1420ish which i linked earlier. May be there is an astronomically small probability of that item rolling, but with astronomical number of drops so far - there should have been at least a few coming close in the 1'480-1'490 range.
    I think this is more of an issue with us not knowing what exactly is the min-max ranges are on the damage rolls.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    -- Albert Einstein

  • #53
    Again with this?


    This is absolute blashpemy. Wand and sword can both roll exact same +DMG stats. This is apparent even if you skip any 'possibilities' just looking at the reality: The swords and wands are on par, while daggers not being able to roll that +dmg modifier is quite obvious with them losing out nearly 200 top DPS on the highest end range. What i stated in my post is that IF a dagger rolls the same DPS - then the dagger is going to be a clear winner, as for using a sword vs wand - makes absolutely no difference since both can roll exact same +dmg modifiers and have exact same attack speed.

    Also, the sword you are using in your setup is not possible:

    +50% dmg = roll 1
    +min damage = roll 2
    +max damage = roll 3
    +AIS = roll 4
    +socket = roll 5
    +100 CD = roll 6
    +200 INT = roll 7


    Again if you had actually read our thread, or looked at post #41 in this thread you would see that the min/max damage is one roll. Example if you're to lazy to find it: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix/min-max-dam-13-fast-104

    one roll. So there's that.

    Then there's the fact that Sword/Wands dps top end is higher than dagger. I think I've finally gotten you to agree to that one. Now you have to realize that wands always roll the +max arcane. This makes it so they have 5 rollable props. Example to prove this is the top wand on your list: http://www.diablopro...m/item/15769185 if min/max isn't combined, then that item has 7 props. So you can see for sure there that min/max has a combine roll on some of the top items. Not seperate.

    You are right that Zuni boots are going to provide more DPS, i've updated the table to show that. Your initial statement was vague implying nothing was optimized for DPS when only the boots were missing, could have simply pointed that out.
    Well given that you quoted me saying the boots weren't top dps I'd assume that'd you'd realize it had something to do with the boots, but allright, you were also using a 98% crit weapon not 100%. It wasn't isolated to one thing. All I had said was look over our list, we had already done the same thing, and again with the rudeness, i'm beginning to realize you're not worth helping.


    I quite clearly expressed that the DPS here is unbuffed and quite clearly expressed that buffed DPS is really not a good comparison for any purposes. Unbuffed DPS is the real comparison, hence anywhere you go people post / talk / compare / diabloprogress.com all use unbuffed DPS.
    Seeing a pure buffed DPS does not really make any sense, even if you take into account FN, etc, for the simple fact that if you really want to go that way - then you should be looking for tDPS instead of just sheet DPS buffed that way. tDPS will have to include simulation of the actual skill usage etc. Hence the whole idea of using buffed DPS does not make any sense.

    See, you are combining two different things. I said here's my tool and you can use it if you want. You said it's obscene to say that tool is more tuned to wizards. Just cause you do not need the features, does not mean something isn't tailored for specifics with those tools.

    Example: A school creates a wheel chair ramp by their stairs and a handicap accessible elevator. This allows people in wheel chairs to access extra features. However, you never use it cause you don't need to. Does this mean that the school didn't tailor things towards handicap usage? No, they did, even if you never use that feature.

    I said it has tools for figuring out more detailed information about wizard spells. That has nothing to do with what you're doing, I said it was what WE used. It worked for what WE did. I don't care if you use a spreadsheet, or a piece of paper and a pencil, but saying it's obscene for me saying the tool was beneficial for what WE were doing makes no sense. I understand you did yours without Buffs. That's great. The items are still going to be the same more than likely.

    I'm truly sorry that I came in here to help with things we had already worked out. You can tell from my first posts I was genuinely trying to help with something we worked on, on a different forum. It seems you won't even begin to read the thoughts we went through when creating ours and are just here to attack me. Since we've already completed ours and you won't take any help from looking at what we did there is no more point for me to post in this thread as it'll just be false accusations of being wrong and trying to attack a project that me and a lot of people worked hard on (both our top dps and my dpsCalc tool). Unless you directly want a response from me I won't cloud up your thread anymore.
  • #54
    Quote from Loroese

    You're more than welcome to use any or all of my information posted on the forums, including my simulator. That's partly why I post it in the first place. I'd also be more than happy to chat about any parts of it, even if you just want to use the code to add to something you're doing. As it stands, it doesn't sound like many people are using it, which isn't surprising because MATLAB is a very expensive engineering platform.

    Awesome, I'll see if I can sit down and browse through your spreadsheets/code and get a grasp on things. If I notice any difference I'll be sure to mention them. There a better way to get ahold of ya? Feel free to shoot me an email (it's on the top of all the d3up pages) and say hi so I have your email addy :)
  • #55
    Quote from TheDemokin

    I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
    +min dmg
    +max dmg
    +min-max dmg
    As far as i can see the min-max range does not produce the same DPS as the 2 separate affixes do. (you can check in the diabloprogress all the top DPS items are 2 separate affixes +min and +max damage not the min/max range?) Also, i would seriously question the correction of the maximum possible 1'500 DPS wand - the game has been out for what? 6 months? With millions of players farming, billions of wands have been identified so far, yet the highest DPS ever detected so far is 1420ish which i linked earlier. May be there is an astronomically small probability of that item rolling, but with astronomical number of drops so far - there should have been at least a few coming close in the 1'480-1'490 range.
    I think this is more of an issue with us not knowing what exactly is the min-max ranges are on the damage rolls.
    Took me a while to figure this out from going over various sites listing the possible affixes. The damage affixes were changed in 1.0.4 to display the +min/max physical damage affix in two lines instead of one. This was done by adding affixes called MinMaxDamage 104. Interestingly when they did this they buffed the values of the lvl 60, 61, and 62 affixes, probably to allow those weapons to have damage ranges in line with ilvl 63 weapons (I recall reading about this change). What the above signifies however is that ilvl 63 weapons appear to be able to roll these buffed affixes as well. An item level 63 weapon gets the most damage by rolling the ilvl 60 affix (of Malice, vs of Death).

    MinMaxDamage14_104 (of Death) - http://www.d3lexicon.../affix/of-death
    Perfectly Rolled: 286 Minimum Damage, 381 Maximum Damage
    MinMaxDamage11_104 (of Malice) - http://www.d3lexicon...fix/of-malice-3
    Perfectly Rolled: 316 Minimum Damage, 411 Maximum Damage

    These are however, 1 affix, despite taking two lines on the tooltip. Values of fast weapons (daggers and hand crossbows) are 265 minimum, 363 maximum (http://www.d3lexicon...dam-11-fast-104)

    Additionally wands will always roll at least 1 wizard specific affix

    So BiS Daggers vs Swords vs Wands

    Dagger, Perfectly Rolled Darkblade (70 to 209 base damage)
    Of Malice, lvl 60 104 version (265 minimum damage, 363 maximum damage) gives a damage range of 335-837
    +50% damage, +11% IAS, +200 Int, +100% Crit Damage, +Socket. You can debate 11% IAS vs 150 int/150 vit I suppose)

    so 1.5*1.11 = 1.665 attack speed
    (335 to 837) * 1.5 = 502 to 1256 damage, 1.665 attack speed which is 1463.5 DPS

    Sword, Perfectly Rolled Runesword (107 to 248 base damage
    Of Malice, lvl 60 104 version (316 minimum, 411 maximum)
    50% damage, 11% IAS, 200 Int, 100% crit damage, Socket

    final outcome 635 to 1462 damage, 1.554 attacks per second, 1629.4 DPS

    Wand, Perfectly Rolled Desolator Wand (122 to 226 base damage)
    Same affixes as sword but we have to replace IAS with either 15 max arcane power or 10 APoC neither of which factor into our sheet DPS.

    final outcome 657 to 1430 damage, 1.40 attacks per second, 1460.9 DPS

    Putting the theoretical BiS dagger outlined above in the profile for MH + Trium + Zuni Boots increases the DPS by 84K
    Putting the theoretical BiS sword outlined above in the same profile yields and increase of 129K over what is currently there and 45K over the dagger.
    Putting the theoretical BiS wand outlined above in the same profile yields 42K over the current, but is 42K behind the dagger and 97K behind the sword
  • #56
    I can tell you 1420 isn't the highest right now. Here is one with 1466.2 dps for example. But, there are several reasons why we haven't seen a wand with 1500 dps.

    The first reason is because the +min and max dmg affix was recently buffed. So before just a little while ago it was not possible. Second, diabloprogress is pretty slow at updating, and only will show you items that players have actually had equipped at the time it updated that character. There is a huge possibility that many items aren't even in its database. Just because an item has high dps doesn't mean someone wants to equip it if its other stats are bad. Lastly, the odds are astronomical. I'm not going to make up numbers, but there is probably a good possibility that such an item will never exist in the game.

    Although, the wand I linked is only missing +2 base dmg, and +12-14 more dmg from the dmg affix, so maybe it can happen.

    Quote from TheDemokin

    I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
    +min dmg
    +max dmg
    +min-max dmg

    The +min dmg affix goes up to +36
    The +max dmg affix goes up to +36
    The +min-max dmg affix goes up to +316-727 (displayed as 2 separate lines on the weapon):
    Line 1: "+316 Minimum Damage"
    Line 2: "+411 Maximum Damage"

    Since all of these affixes can roll on the same weapon it is actually possible to have even higher than 1500 dps on a wand, but I didn't include those other 2 affixes since they are pretty wasted.
  • #57
    Kieble, the base top end dmg does not matter. Once a weapon has a +min-max dmg affix on it, whether physical or elemental, only the base minimum damage is used in the dmg calculations.

    And it appears that BDF2000 is correct that daggers have a lower range of +dmg affixes. I think the highest one might be +255-598 dmg. In fact, I believe every weapon speed has its own set of dmg affixes, which would make sense, but wasn't immediately obvious based on what I knew before. If anyone has any information of this it would be helpful in determining which weapon type is best.
  • #58
    Nice, thanks for the input guys, i'll make a couple of updates to the post in a second, to use the perfectly rolled weapons and i'll do up 2 sections:
    - daggers win via APS, so lower wpn DPS will be covered by APS of the wand
    - swords higher DPS but lower APS
    The two of them might come out very very close even in total sheet DPS though the dagger is 200 DPS lower.


    Quote from Speaker

    I can tell you 1420 isn't the highest right now. Here is one with 1466.2 dps for example. But, there are several reasons why we haven't seen a wand with 1500 dps.

    That's because the wand you linked is missing a socket roll, it rolled AIS instead, that's why the DPS of it is higher than 1420. I think DisposableHero is right on the rolls. But theoretically you are right as well - it's possible to get a higher raw DPS of the weapon at the expense of the socket or CD or even both and roll and additional single +min/max damage affix along with AIS.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    -- Albert Einstein

  • #59
    Updated, honestly - a few surprises there, check out the Zuni x2 with a sword vs Zuni x2 with a dagger O.o
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    -- Albert Einstein

  • #60
    Sorry, but again, the numbers on those weapons are wrong. The max dmg on your weapons is above what is actually possible in game. For example, the dagger's maximum dmg should be calculated as (71 + 265 + 363) *1.50 = 1048.5

    The number you used for the base dmg is right, only when there is no +min-max dmg modifiers on the weapon. When there is a +min-max dmg affix it uses the weapon's minimum dmg+1 to calculate the max dmg. I know it doesn't make sense, but this is how blizzard does the calculation for max dmg on weapons.

    Check this item out for example. The base minimum dmg on this weapon is 68 so we calculate the min and max dmg as follows:
    min dmg = (68+261)*1.50 = 493.5
    max dmg = (69+261+340)*1.50 = 1005

    All your max dmg weapon ranges are off and should be adjusted. I hope this helps.
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