CMWW. New to trying, pointers?

  • #1
    A few days ago I posted a cm kite spec thread and found out I was doing things all wrong. After some frat advice I changed my kite spec and found it to be efficient. Now though I have decided to give cmww a shot for ubers and key farming. The spec is pretty cookie cutter outside of having a signature spell and a different passive than most ppl. My question is more gear related.

    Is there anything tremendously wrong with my gear for low mp key farming outside of not having enough APoC, or can anyone make a recommendation for a gear upgrade that won't cost an arm & a leg.
  • #2
    Link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Freshmint-1153/hero/7509759 (you can post links now, too - gratz!)

    Hm, tremendously wrong... well, I think your EHP (or to be more exact, your HP) is quite low. And it seems like you only have 1 piece of APoC, get another one. To buff your HP you should switch some of the pieces that have life % for pieces with vitality. At 20-25k life, life % is a useless stat.

    From there, you could follow Loroese's guide, which should give you many more pointers. http://www.diablofans.com/topic/79800-guide-comprehensive-cmww-guide/
  • #3
    20k hp is not bad for CM wizard (with really low budget) since u are most of the time protected by diamond skin which is not profiting from extra hp
    but %life sure is worthless when u have so low vit

    i would go for extra all resistance since it make diamond skin last longer. 143 all resistance is horrible +int (i cant imagine play with 360AR) and try to get around 600

    and your attack speed is also low u need atleast 2 attacks per minute better 3 (1.54 is really bad :/) get rings amulets and gloves with attack speed and all resistance on rest of the gear
    with gear u got so far i do not recommend even trying to play cmww :/

    and with cmWW build u wont need movement speed that much since u should use teleport
  • #4
    Your crit is fine, you don't need a lot of attack speed to get started because it tends to be the most expensive part of improving gear, but you barely have a lick of all resist on your gear and you need more vitality. I can't fathom how you ended up with 38% life without an amethyst in your helm and yet only 25K HP. You need to tick off the following to really get set up with CM/WW for key farming:

    Find a second source of Arcane Power on Crit
    Improve your EHP substantially (you have tons of Life% but very low vitality, minimal All Resist, minimal bonus armor)
    Ensure your crit stays in the 40s while doing this
    Find possibly a tiny bit more LoH

    For the first, Storm Crow is probably your cheapest option, try to get one with Crit, All Resistance, or Armor
    For the second, if you get a Blackthorne's Chest and Belt (look for Int on the chest with a high vit roll, Int/Vit or Int/All Res on the belt) it will add a phenominal amount of EHP for a pretty low cost without sacrificing much (the movement speed from Tyreal's Might is nice, but not nearly as critical for CM as it is for a kiting build)

    Change your gems from Int to Vit if you're HP is still low (35K is sort of a standard value to hit)

    I would definitely dump the Legacy Tal Rasha's amulet at least from your CM gear, but make sure you pick up the 130 vitality back else where if you don't get it on your amulet. Crit and Attack Speed are your biggest potential gains from the Amulet.
  • #5
    to properly handle cm/ww you will need about 50-60 chc, 25-30 apoc, and about 2.5-3.0 attack speed. you will also need about 500 AR and 5000 armor. 30k hp, use energy armor/prismatic armor, et/ww, magic weapon/conduit, and evocation along with cm. also frost nova needs to be set to cold snap and diamond skin to crystal shell. as for your secondary attack you can either use meteor or explosive blast/chain reaction. as long as you can manage all of this you will be able to do mp 10 easily but its going to cost you around 25-50m. i would show you my gear but my profile is only showing archon atm and i mainly use archon now of days

    another tip: i also hold down et/ww and diamond skin and only spam explosive blast and frost nova.
  • #6
    gurg0: take a look at the CMWW guide, which is based on the insight of many many hours of theorycrafting and the experience gathered from these forums where for months people asked for advice for CMWW.

    CMWW can work with 1.5 APS.
    He has > 400 allres, which is not great but his biggest concern right now is life. It's also much much cheaper to get more life than to get allres. Unless you plan to build a MP10 tank from scratch, you should go for some balance in stacking up EHP, and going for more HP would be the first best thing on a low budget wizard. 200 more vitality, one more APoC piece and he's there.
  • #7
    Quote from dao72785

    to properly handle cm/ww you will need about 50-60 chc, 25-30 apoc, and about 2.5-3.0 attack speed. you will also need about 500 AR and 5000 armor.

    Pleaaaaaaase stop. What the hell are you talking about? His crit is fine, 40-45 is more than enough, I'm running MP10 with 43, stop misguiding people. If APS+CC are high enough, you never ever ever need more than 20 APoC, it's a waste of affix slot. And > 2.5 APS is kind of getting into the expensive endgame.

    Please please please, take a look at Loroese's guide. If you have a 200m wizard that's fine, but please don't tell people on a low budget these numbers, you're not helping them at all. Also, if you really have these numbers (60 cc, 30 APoC, 3.0 APS) you're wasting TONS of DPS, I hope you're joking.
  • #8
    Quote from Bagstone

    CMWW can work with 1.5 APS.

    and that is why elites and gobs teleport/run from you lawl

    and another reason why you are telling him to get more hp and all res/armor is because YOU GUYS keep getting hit with your wrong setup! you arent supposed to get hit for 1, for 2 elites shouldnt even spawn arcane desecrator or frozen. you can think that you all got it right but you dont elites are not supposed to even twitch let alone hit you LAWL
  • #9
    Quote from dao72785

    Quote from Bagstone

    CMWW can work with 1.5 APS.

    and that is why elites and gobs teleport/run from you lawl

    He's not a credit card kid who's trying to roflstomp his way through MP10. He said he's on a tight budget and trying to make CMWW work. Hell, why can't people understand how to gear up a character without less than a billion gold? And again, one more time, look at the guide.

    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/79800-guide-comprehensive-cmww-guide/
  • #10
    I also advise (aside from everything else that has been suggested already), to get plenty of life on hit.

    I put on about 20 APoC on my gear yesterday to do uber runs (had to run CM stunlock because no one else in the party had disables) and I can't recall the last time I've died so many times against Reflect, Molten and Arcane elites in the span of a single run. I figured with 400K dps as CM/WW, I could get by with 2.6% life steal. Boy did that fail.

    Do yourself a favor and stack some decent LoH to go with the other necessities (upgrade to EHP most importantly).
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #11
    heres some real advice if you cant afford to go with my setup dont even attempt cm/ww because it will be done wrong, you will get hit, and you will die so there is no point you wont be able to carry anyone in ubers and you wont be able to do high mp lvl

    you need 50-60 chc, 25-30 apoc, and 2.5-3.0 attack speed if you do not have this you will die.

    A: get hit all the time and die
    B: arcane, frozen, molten, and desecrator will own you
    C: elites and gobs are not supposed to even twitch so if they move its because you are doing it wrong and listening to these dumb asses.
  • #12
    Quote from dao72785

    heres some real advice if you cant afford to go with my setup dont even attempt cm/ww because it will be done wrong, you will get hit, and you will die so there is no point you wont be able to carry anyone in ubers and you wont be able to do high mp lvl

    you need 50-60 chc, 25-30 apoc, and 2.5-3.0 attack speed if you do not have this you will.

    A: get hit all the time and die
    B: arcane, frozen, molten, and desecrator will own you
    C: elites and gobs are not supposed to even twitch so if they move its because you are doing it wrong and listening to these dumb asses.

    You really ought to look at the budget videos that show CM wizards surviving MP10 with <1M gold. And there's a huge difference between making something work and, as Bagstone said, "roflstomp through MP10." The stats you're putting up are designed to make things a cakewalk.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #13
    Quote from Jaetch

    Quote from dao72785

    heres some real advice if you cant afford to go with my setup dont even attempt cm/ww because it will be done wrong, you will get hit, and you will die so there is no point you wont be able to carry anyone in ubers and you wont be able to do high mp lvl

    you need 50-60 chc, 25-30 apoc, and 2.5-3.0 attack speed if you do not have this you will.

    A: get hit all the time and die
    B: arcane, frozen, molten, and desecrator will own you
    C: elites and gobs are not supposed to even twitch so if they move its because you are doing it wrong and listening to these dumb asses.

    You really ought to look at the budget videos that show CM wizards surviving MP10 with <1M gold. And there's a huge difference between making something work and, as Bagstone said, "roflstomp through MP10."

    oooooo ya you talking about that vid of the kid cm/ww a trash mob? why didnt that kid show you him freezing an elite or a single target? you know why cause he couldnt do that and he would have died. what my setup is for is for elites, gobs, and single targets. when there is a mob of monsters it will always freeze lock but when there are elites or a single target it does not work!
  • #14
    Quote from Jaetch

    I put on about 20 APoC on my gear yesterday to do uber runs (had to run CM stunlock because no one else in the party had disables) and I can't recall the last time I've died so many times against Reflect, Molten and Arcane elites in the span of a single run. I figured with 400K dps as CM/WW, I could get by with 2.6% life steal. Boy did that fail.

    400k DPS and 2.6% LS was not enough? WOW. Could you look over my blurb in the guide and tell me where my math went so horribly wrong? Because according to theory, you should've been absolutely fine. Also, can you say what the usual WW ticks (hits/crits) are with your gear, and how much APS you had?
  • #15
    Quote from dao72785

    you need 50-60 chc, 25-30 apoc, and 2.5-3.0 attack speed if you do not have this you will die.

    Okay, at this point, could you please 1. stop saying this and 2. tell us what the values on your gear are? Because I smell either troll or fail. Do you know this formula: APoC * CC * 0.125 * WW_ticks/6?
  • #20
    To get back on topic, just look over my guide and if you have any other questions feel free to post here or there and I'll answer when I can. I feel it's best to start with a budget build with low APS but decent armor and resists to see if you like the build. Obviously better stats make the build work better but you can still get a good feel for it even with low IAS. If you like it, then you can think about getting up to the 2.5 or 2.73 APS breakpoint. My guide also has a table with recommended Armor/Resist values per MP level.

    Also, at starter gear levels, you might want to try 3 APoC items. Most people say it's pretty helpful, though when you reach 2.5+APS 2 should suffice for most situations, but some still say use 3 until 3.0 APS unless your crit is really high (60+). I haven't had time to try out using a 3rd item yet because I don't use wormhole, I use fracture, but I plan to switch soon.

    @Dao
    You're not even doing CMWW right. You're much better off using Storm Armor - shocking aspect than energy armor because of the huge dps increase. It's even worth lowering MP level to accomidate the skill. About the only time you should use energy armor is when trying high MP ubers with low armor/resists. Also, Diamond Shards raises dps by a decent amount, so that's worth using if possible, but probably not worth dropping MP to accomidate. It actually sounds like you could learn a few things from my guide.

    Also the OP said NEW to CMWW, not "Looking to jump into farming MP10 with CMWW". While your gear recommendations are not all that different than some I've seen on the official forums, I agree more with Bagstone that you don't need that much crit to sustain the build at a reasonable level. I've been running with 40-50% CC since I started and it's been working fine. I'm currently up to 48.5% CC, 20 APoC, 2.75 APS, 750 resist and 4900 armor, unbuffed, so I can farm MP10 for keys and run MP10 ubers, though I'd likely use energy armor for ubers because Mag hits HARD. I can also completely lock Siegebreaker and Kulle at the start of the fight so Kulle doesn't teleport. Can you do that with your gear?
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #21
    so @ freshmint

    the build i use for high mp lvl is diamond skin/crystal shell, frost nova/cold snap, energy armor/prismatic, magic weapon/conduit, energy twister/ww, and explosive blast/chain reaction. passives i use are evocation, cm, and cold blooded.

    for low mp lvls you can go with diamond skin/diamond shards and storm armor/shocking aspect but if you have low stats i would recommend going with diamond skin/crystal shell, frost nova/cold snap, energy armor/pinpoint barrier, magic weapon/conduit, and evocation as a must.


    @ cantor

    2.61 APS, 54% CHC, 27 APOC is what i have unbuffed so yes i can stun lock just fine and no i dont need to link 2 monsters together to be able to do that.

    i know about diamond shards and shocking aspect i dont use them because i go for higher mp lvls where magic weapon conduit and prismatic armor help a lot more then those you mentioned... its not like im a moron about critical mass you remember the nerf to meteor in 1.0.5? it was because of me and my guide to cm meteor that it was nerfed 3 days after i posted it. yes you could get away with less stats for cm but it would only work in low mp lvls where you wont get one shotted through frost nova AND diamond skin. if you ever get the stats i have you would understand how crappy lower stat cm builds are. also yes i know he said he was new to the cm build so i stated the proper way of doing it! he can go ahead and try to meet those goals as much as possible or as much as his budget would allow him to.
  • #22
    To all,
    Thank you so very much for the helpful input. While yea my vitality level is super low, it worked out well for my kiting build that I was running previously. That, along with all res will be my next steps to up a bit more (Found a Storm Crow with 10 APoC and nice Vit for relatively cheap, so I'm up to 19 APoC now)

    My next question lies in my passives, not so much CM or Cold Blooded, but my 3rd is Galvanizing Ward (for the extra life regen). Should I stick with that until I get my vitality up a bit more or is there a better option for the stage I am currently at? [If there was any doubt, place me at the "Complete Noob" stage of CMWW]
  • #23
    i myself would recommend evocation but what do i know im just a noob myself it seems
  • #24
    I also recommend Evocation, and I use that with CM and CB. Some people start to drop Evo around 2.73 or 3.0 APS but the options are mainly Blur (but who knows what that actually helps against), Glass Cannon (which hurts your survivability, though can be somewhat offset by switching to crystal shell), or trying to get Conflag to work by throwing in meteor somewhere. Galv Ward is not very useful because you should just have LoH on gear and even at a low APS it takes less than 100 LoH to give the same benefit of Galv Ward.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
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