Concerning Spectral Blades

  • #1
    Hello fellow wizards,

    my question may already have been answered, but I can't seem to find it.

    I have a fire damage wand, and a + cold damage % SoJ.

    Does this mean that since spectral blades takes the element damage of the weapon, and since the cold damage chills, that both conflagration and cold blooded will add damage to it?

    Thanks
  • #2
    I think so.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #3
    Spectral blades got no elemental modifer, so yeah, if you got a fire damage weapon and a +cold damage ring, you can use both passive talents for damage increase.
  • #4
    Good to hear. I'm trying to build a spectral blade wizard (i doubt it is the most efficient, but hey, lets try something interesting) and I've been stacking +% to spectral blade damage as well. I do have a few questions on how it works thus far.

    My character [ http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/SolusCoda-1302/hero/1197627 ]

    I currently have stacked 44% spectral blade damage. (9% + 11% rings, 14% source, 10% amulet) and I'm curious how the math works.

    base for blades is 165% weapon damage. So, does my extra damage add to 209% or is it (165 * 1.44) 237%.

    Then, after that, does my 10% from conflag and 20% from cold blooded add to (209 * 1.3) 271% or (308.1%)?

    I feel like there are some cool hidden builds in these skill modifier combos on items. Just need to figure them out.
  • #5
    sounds very interesting! :)
    - toying with a spectral blade build myself at the moment

    already a guy who has made a thread about spectral blade builds: http://www.diablofans.com/topic/77107-spectral-blade-build-viable-even-on-mp10/
    check it out :) he has some cool thoughts on it.
  • #6
    All bonuses should be multiplicative. 1.1*1.2*1.44 = 1.908 with conflag, cold blooded, and 44% spectral blades.

    In general, all bonus damage% are multiplicative unless they are the same affix type, then they're additive. "Adds x% to [ELEMENTAL] damage" are all the same affix type so you add them all together, then the sum is a multiplicative damage boost. "Increases damage by x%" are all additive, such as glass cannon, sparkflint, and magic weapon. All other affixes or skills that increase damage by a % should be multiplicative unless they are worded the same, like "increases damage from [elemental] skills by x%".
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #7
    Thanks Loroese, that would mean that currently, my Spectral Blade damage is (1.2*1.1*1.44*165) 313% weapon damage.

    It is hard to gauge if that's accurate in-game.
  • #8
    One way to test, if you really want to, is get a low dps weapon, like something that's 10-20 damage, and get a super cheap ring with +20 min damage. That will force your weapon to always hit for 20 damage base. Then get a cheap trimvirate for fire damage, load up a low level, remove most of your gear except the MH, trium (low dps is best, you just want it for fire damage) and soj. Then spam on a couple mobs and look at the damage done. The damage should be 20*(1+INT/100)*3.13, when it doesn't crit.

    For it to work right, the weapon can't have any elemental damage on it. I use low dps white weapons and have a couple in my stash for testing purposes.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #9
    Good idea for the test.

    I was browsing on the AH and found a top rolled fragment of destiny. Does anyone know how the +25% fire/cold/lightning damage works on that wand? I've heard from some post that it was broken but I haven't found any other evidence or info on the thing.

    If my spectral blades are being used with a fire wand, does that make them do +25% fire skill damage?
  • #10
    Those only apply to skills that use those elements, so it won't work for spectral blades. The difference is they actually say "skills" in the affix.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #11
    and as we all know the "skills" affix is junk :( great if per chance you use the skills required
  • #12
    Been doing some more research on spectral blades and their viability.

    A patch or two ago, I know deep cuts was vastly superior to other blade abilities due to the proc, but recently, I found this chart with all co-efficients:

    https://docs.google....ZJcHdkN0E#gid=4

    (credit to someone else, can't remember, was on www.reddit.com/r/diablo)

    It looks like the only advantage of deep cuts now is an extra LoH proc, but not CM. Does this mean that healing blades or any other blade ability (besides thrown) is viable now?


    I'd also like to know how healing blades work. Is it really a straight up 5% Life steal on the spell's damage? (I know about 80% inferno cutback for all lifesteal, I mean before the reduction from inferno, so i can relate it to LS items.)
  • #13
    would also like to see some math on if 5% life steal is worth it :)
  • #14
    I read somewhere that it's not worth it. It's only 5% life steal of the Spectral Blade damage - and its damage is not that awesome, to be honest. And it's only 1% on Inferno, afaik. I tried this shortly after 1.05 went live and found it to be useless, and I remember that on the official forum someone did theorycrafting about it - with the conclusion that it's not worth it.

    Quote from SolusCoda

    A patch or two ago, I know deep cuts was vastly superior to other blade abilities due to the proc, but recently, I found this chart with all co-efficients:

    https://docs.google....ZJcHdkN0E#gid=4

    (credit to someone else, can't remember, was on www.reddit.com/r/diablo)

    Reddit is a mess. Credit goes to ZzEzZ on this forum: http://www.diablofan...-complete-list/
  • #15
    Well, normally I'd agree with you, but if you see one of my earlier posts, my current build apparently allows for 313% weapon damage spectral blade, so if it really is equal to 5% life steal on a weap of that, it could be very worth it.
  • #16
    I ran some more tests and played around with my build. I am now confident that this is a winning strategy.

    I now run with 3% life steal in my fire wand, 1.5% from blood magic weapon, and healing blades. With 35% to spectral blades and conflag and cold blooded affecting them, they do some very serious damage.

    I tested this on mp 7 and I can tank and kill easily with a mere 60k dps. The reason this works so well is my new build (tried many other variations with less success) :

    http://us.battle.net...XYTS!Weg!YYcccc

    You can swap storm armor with energy armor for higher mp.

    This build buffs your spectral blades damage ALOT while providing mobility with teleport. (conflag 10%, cold-blooded 20%, ica nova 15%, 35% spectral blade damage is equal to 338% weapon damage spectral blade. This is combination with 9.5% life steal (3% life steal + 1.5% life steal + 5% life steal for blades) makes for an astounding tank. Once I up my damage to a respectable point, I will make a new post detailing this interesting build.

    It is quite fun and powerful, while being very unique. currently with only 60k dps, I get 4-6k life back every single time i click spectral blades. I also think that character sheet dps is deceptive with this build. with 60k shown, I am doing around 80-100k damage per blade hit (keep in mind every cast has 3 blade hits), so my normal attack is hitting for an average of 240-300k. (300*.02[life steal after inferno reduction] = 6k life back)

    I can stand in arcane beams and desecrations on mp 5 or less without dying (though not a recommended strategy).


    I think I'll call it the Blood Blade build.
  • #17
    awsome! looking forward to the detailling post about your version of a blade build :)

    - as a side note, i run with Meteor in my own version of the spectral blade build. i find it to be very good to use your unspent arcane and as a long range damage metode.
  • #18
    After reading your post i thought i'd give it a try just for the fun of it. Below is my experience with it but i did some things differently so i am not expressing a solid opinion on the build as i didn't put enough effort for it.

    Firstly i didn't use the +% spectral blades dmg (nor the +% to elites of your SoJ) gear you have as i didn't wanna spend gold on it.
    Secondly i used glass cannon instead of conflagration for the 5% extra dmg.
    Third,i had 3% less life steal than you used.

    To start with,i tested straight on mp7.i have much more sheet dps than you ( about 262k.) so i think the extra % dmg u have is covered by it.
    I do have low survivability but i still wouldn't die from almost any melee attacks thanks to the high numbers from life steal.
    The highest crit from ONE blade i noticed was 240k which means i did hit HARD and healed back hard. (got 2 aps)
    I even stood in one desecrate (i get 10% more fire dmg from Andariel's visage) and got hit by 2 melee elites and managed to survive for 5-7 seconds.

    Ranged on the other hand are annoying...Fast ranged elites totally owned me as i had to move so no LS during that.
    I even died on some trash quillbacks .But my EHP is to blame for that as i can take 4-5 hits most without healing on mp7 and their attacks are sometimes inevitable.
    And ofc the 30+ mobs packs,i prefer forked lightning for it's awesome AoE capabilities whereas spectral blades range is short.That's a matter of taste though.

    So my verdict would be that it's a nice idea for a change and i would invest some on it instead of CM builds,even though the latter felt more solid when i tried it.But yours is more fun as it includes clicking and not blindly smashing buttons until the fight is over.
    Ignorance is Bliss.
  • #19
    I'm glad you validated the spec! I can understand the issues with the ranged. I tried many variations of this spec that got me killed by range so I settled on teleport and ice nova as a great solution. With CM, your teleport is typically available after a pack so you can teleport to the ranged and nova them so they can't run from you.

    Also, Scramble is nice for reaching ranged enemies and dodging painful things.

    I've got to work my way to your kind of dps.
  • #20
    yea, thats right.
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