Archon Arcane Destruction vs. Reflect Damage

  • #1
    Just a heads up (I meant to post this much earlier)...

    In the past, when I use the Arcane Destruction rune (Archon) on Reflect Damage mobs, I essentially one-shot myself regardless of how many of them I hit. I mean, 1600% weapon damage on multiple units with Reflect... it makes sense.

    I've done this again recently while farming ubers from as low as MP5 to as high as MP10. In every scenario, I do not kill myself in one hit when I activate Arcane Destruction. Rather, I don't even think I take damage from Reflect when I use the ability. I've done this with both Prismatic Armor and Force Armor.

    By the way, I do run life steal, but it doesn't change anything. I used to get one-shot with life steal, but I don't right now.

    I should kill myself in one hit, but I don't. Please give this a try. I'm going to check this out some more when I get off from work (going to try this on every single Reflect mob I can find) but this has intrigued me lately.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #2
    oh i just did it. champ pack with reflect damage. my wife and i had been kiting cause archon beam will just kill me so slow and steady... she was almost down and i said "$%^& it" BOOM! I died... but so did the champ pack.

    I also did this with the last of a champ pack not 10 min before soling. I was annoyed so thought playing a fanatic would be fun. I died.

    I am not sure on ubers as i have not fought seigebreaker in a while.
  • #3
    well man not trying to sound snoby but unless you can make somethin dead proof in hc your 300mio dps are worth nothing. sc is a joke even with only 90k.
  • #4
    Quote from Nephelem

    well man not trying to sound snoby but unless you can make somethin dead proof in hc your 300mio dps are worth nothing. sc is a joke even with only 90k.


    What exactly does that have to do with Arcane Destruction vs. Reflect Damage?
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #5
    Quote from Nephelem

    well man not trying to sound snoby but unless you can make somethin dead proof in hc your 300mio dps are worth nothing. sc is a joke even with only 90k.


    I think you have failed, sorry.

    On-topic: tried it. Killed myself :P
  • #6
    Another question though why not have the 25% more damage from archon abilities I don't see how the burst of damage would ever trump that
  • #7
    Congrats on getting a bunch of wizards to kill themselves ;)
  • #8
    Quote from Keiser

    Congrats on getting a bunch of wizards to kill themselves ;)


    Oh my, that was not my intention. I swear.

    Based on the reports... I'm assuming I'll die when I hop online again later tonight. For all of your sake (thank you all who actually tried), I will attempt to suicide as many times as possible until I get a complete understanding of what's been happening.

    Quote from Zera

    Another question though why not have the 25% more damage from archon abilities I don't see how the burst of damage would ever trump that


    This is for a CM-stunlock and Archon hybrid build used for ubers at high MP levels. Because you can't sustain Archon for more than 15 seconds at a time against ubers, it's nice to have that 1600% nuke by making use of CM every few seconds after Archon wears off. And because you can't change skills after collecting NV stacks, you'll have to stick with this build while hunting elites.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #9
    I actually did this a few days ago, and my life basically didn't move. I assumed it was because my dps wasn't high enough to get one-shot, which let my life steal kick in.

    But with your report, I'm starting to think that something changed with reflect damage mobs. Either Arcane Destruction doesn't proc reflect, or Life Steal now procs before the damage gets reflected.

    I'm interested in other testing or reports.
  • #10
    I actually had a thought while i was grinding out some keys (stupid act 2 keys dont ever drop for me... ever....)

    On a reflect of arcane destruction is the reflect damage reduced by pre-archon stats or archon stats (in other words does the 40% boost count towards the reduction). I would have to assume so but the explosion is before you transform (from a computer perspective i believe its click, BOOM, archon. not click, archon, boom.

    Has anyone read of someone doing those tests?
  • #11
    i havent ried AD in a while last time i tried it was when i picked up a skorn and dear god the crits on AD at the time for me was just gross .... wonder what it would be like now that i have doubled my dps
  • #12
    I assure your its as gross....blowing up a champ pack in 1 click is still awesome. Except when the aforementioned Reflect Damage affix appears... I really wish they would show something graphically for that. An aura effect would be cool, they dont really use those on monsters.
  • #13
    /specced /tried /dead quite amusing but i am pretty sure no other class can 1shot themselves via reflect so easily xD
  • #14
    Okay, I realize what's been happening:

    Preset: MP10 Act III Inferno, Skills - Shock Pulse (Living Lightning), Archon (Arcane Destruction), Diamond Skin (Crystal Shell), Frost Nova (Bone Chill), Magic Weapon (Blood Magic), Energy Armor (Prismatic Armor), Glass Cannon, Critical Mass, Evocation.

    SURVIVE:
    1. Activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction and nuke is not a critical hit, regardless of number of enemies.

    DEATH:
    1. Fail to activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction on multiple enemies.
    2. Activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction and nuke is a critical hit on multiple enemies

    VARIES:
    1. Fail to activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction that is not a critical hit on one enemy.
    2. Activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction and nuke is a critical hit on one enemy.

    Those are the results I've gotten so far. Of course, it depends on DPS and EHP. Next time I'm going to try running Force Armor instead and see if I can survive a critical Arcane Destruction nuke on multiple enemies.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #15
    jaetch you are killing yourself with the testing quite litterally now xD
  • #16
    This is a time i wish there was a combat log... if just to see what actually happened. I have been doing some playing and i have been noticing that what MP level is also effecting it. Does anyone know if Reflect damage increases per MP level or is it a flat return.

    My HP is sitting at around 26k right now after some build changes and i am fairly sensitive to incoming damage. From a couple MP 5 key farming runs i have even exploded myself without critting with diamond skin up (but the one that sticks out for me i caught about 6/8 of a horde pack and only knocked out about 1/3 of their health each).

    My build is essentially the same as Jaetch but i replace energy armour with storm armour shocking aspect.
  • #17
    Quote from Jaetch

    Okay, I realize what's been happening:

    Preset: MP10 Act III Inferno, Skills - Shock Pulse (Living Lightning), Archon (Arcane Destruction), Diamond Skin (Crystal Shell), Frost Nova (Bone Chill), Magic Weapon (Blood Magic), Energy Armor (Prismatic Armor), Glass Cannon, Critical Mass, Evocation.

    SURVIVE:
    1. Activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction and nuke is not a critical hit, regardless of number of enemies.

    DEATH:
    1. Fail to activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction on multiple enemies.
    2. Activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction and nuke is a critical hit on multiple enemies

    VARIES:
    1. Fail to activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction that is not a critical hit on one enemy.
    2. Activate Diamond Skin before using Arcane Destruction and nuke is a critical hit on one enemy.

    Those are the results I've gotten so far. Of course, it depends on DPS and EHP. Next time I'm going to try running Force Armor instead and see if I can survive a critical Arcane Destruction nuke on multiple enemies.


    Nice Info... I was wondering the same thing!
  • #18
    Activiting Archon removes the diamond skin buff. Simply no point in using it.
  • #19
    I do believe Diamond Skin is deactivated when you turn into Archon form, I think it's going to be down to slight kiting and grabbing health globes with enough life regen to help out with that too since you can't gain enough life on hit to counter it due to the immense damage, regen will be your best bet here. Sometimes I prefer to kill reflect damage elites with diamond skin on quite often so I don't lose Archon form or renew it and have to wait. That's how I've been rolling anyway.
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