Need some noobie wizard advice :)

  • #1
    Hellos!

    I'm feeling hopeless. I can't make my wizard fun in this game. I love wizard, but it's so hard to do anything. I've spent more money on gear than my friends who play other classes, yet they blow through content like no other. I can kill elites upto mp3, but only by corpse rushing them because I'm so fragile. I have YET to see a "pro" wizard player that is not using CM melee wizard or Archon, and I just don't have the gear or money for those specs.

    I play pretty much everyday on mp1 for now to get keys, but it just feels hopeless since I can't kill bosses atm higher than mp1. Anyone have any advice that is not "sell all my gear and give up". :(

    Thanks in advance.

    TLDR: I suck, bad gear, and don't know what to do?

    alastrian 1243

    (sorry I can't post link to armory)
  • #2
    Your link is http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Alastrian-1243/hero/4742347

    My advice is to reroll Witch Doctor immediately...

    Okay I'm kidding...

    Seriously though okay you don't have the exact gear for CM melee; however you are not far off. All you need is an amulet and a ring with high LoH and you're set. Also use a purple gem in helm if you keep dying.

    Honestly I've tried so many variations of traditional blizz/hydra builds and I found them all to really suck even at DPS levels like 200k. Archon and CM just blow it out of the water.
  • #3
    How did Blizzard intend wizard to play anyways? We don't have invincible oh shit buttons like WD and DH. I think blizzard never intended us to do the melee wizard, idk. I just don't see it. They just keep nerfing us, but thank god they haven't nerfed storm armor, it's my only way around reflect damage. Even if the kill takes 10 mins lol.
  • #4
    You could respec to CM wiz switch is very powerfull in my opinion mostley for group play trough ill link u my friends profile.
    U can basicly permafreeze stuff and its not so expensive to make.

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/tudee-2354/hero/4664569
    Hope this helped u have fun.
  • #5
    Your dps is high enough to be able to run Archon in MP0-1 I think. If you find you're dying too often you can switch from Storm Armor to Energy Armor. Pinpoint barrier will give you a bit of a dps boost, though if you are still dying switch to Prismatic or Force Armor rune.

    If you want to keep an Arcane Orb spec, you'll want some more defensive abilities to tackle higher MP levels, and you'll have to kite. The standard AO kite spec uses Arcane hydra and temporal flux, usually with Force Armor or Prismatic Armor, and teleport - fracture with illusionist passive. I'm also fond of Diamond Skin in the spec, but that's more optional and mainly for extra survivability. You can then use whatever sig spell you like, usually Piercing Orb or Lightning Blast, though Forked Lightning seems to be gaining popularity. In theory, this build would work for high MP levels, but it will take you quite a bit of kiting to kill elites, whereas a CM build with the same dps will kill things much faster. At low MP levels Archon kills faster, which is why most wizards are either CM or Archon.

    Regarding gear, you don't need AP on crit for Archon, but you do need it for a WW CM spec. There's a spectral blades spec floating around that doesn't really require AP on crit, or as much, but I haven't tried it and I find the WW spec works very well. Gearing for Archon can be slightly different than gearing for CM, or it can be mostly the same, depending on which direction you take. For Archon you don't need much EHP, especially since it's not really an efficient spec above MP2-4, depending on DPS. Because of that, you can just maximize dps and mow through MP0-1 very quickly. For CM, you want to gear first towards EHP, than towards DPS, because you can't dps if you die too fast.

    CM gear ideas: Blackthorn's Jousting Mail (pants) are good because they have decent Int and Vit plus % life and LoH. LoH is important and can be expensive to find on weapons, rings, amulets. Storm crow is also good for the same reason, plus it has AP on Crit, which you want to have at least 2 sources of. While you lose crit, unless you pay a lot extra, the extra APoC means you can drop it from your weapon and focus on a higher dps weapon, preferably one with all physical damage to make use of your +poison damage on your boots. It would also give you the option of changing your OH to a Triumvirate, which would further increase dps, though you'd lose a little int and crit. Otherwise, when gearing for CM you would like high crit, high attack speed, high EHP, and high dps, in no particular order.

    The main issues I see with trying to gear for CM is I think your EHP is a bit on the low side. EHP is effective health pool which combines your armor, resists, and actual HP into one number that is easy to compare between characters, gear sets, etc. It's basically a measure of what your hp would be if all your defensive stats were just converted into health. As a CM wizard you need enough EHP to survive a couple hits from mobs and the higher your damage reduction the better your diamond skin works. Also, the higher your EHP the higher the MP level you can try to farm. For comparison, I've got my EHP up to around 420k with prismatic armor (39k actual hp) and I can farm MP7 keys very easily. I can stand in most bad stuff for a decent amount of time and not worry about instantly dying, including arcane sentries and desecrator. Electrified mobs don't give me much problems either, but if I switch from Prismatic Armor to Storm Armor, they tear me apart.


    Archon gearing: you might want Life Steal on your weapon but otherwise you are mainly just trying to raise your dps as high as possible. You can do that in just about any manner since Archon beam scales directly off your dps number. You might want to get some extra movement speed, just to make life easier, but with 18% and the teleport rune, you might be fine. You don't need any AP on Crit for Archon so you could swap for a new weapon with all physical damage without APoC and potentially raise your dps a fair amount. You can try using a weapon without life steal and just use Magic Weapon - Blood Magic, but if you. want to tackle MP2+ I'd highly recommend both. I use both and damage reflect mobs can still hurt me a lot.


    Kite spec gearing: similar to Archon you mainly just want to raise your dps and not worry too much about EHP. You can just use Force Armor with Teleport and Diamond Skin for survivability. APoC isn't very useful for this spec either since the coefficient of Arcane orb is pretty bad. Attack speed is less useful since you'll be running a lot so crit and crit damage are great for increasing dps.


    That's probably a lot of information to take in, but hopefully it gives you some ideas of directions you can take. Personally I'd recommend trying an Archon farming spec on low MP. When you make a little money you could try building a budget CM set to see if you like it, and if you do, you can always offer to tank things for groups at higher MP levels. With a high dps and high survivability CM set you can solo the Uber bosses, which is either very very difficult, or not viable as Archon or with a kiting spec, at mid to high MP levels. With 90k dps and around 320k EHP I was able to solo the MP5 bosses before the damage reduction hotfix, so it should be a bit easier now.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #6
    Wow thanks for the reply! Very informative. So in reality there are only 2 real specs wizard have, CM and Archon. Hmm, oks thanks I will give it a try.
  • #7
    Quote from Alastrian

    Wow thanks for the reply! Very informative. So in reality there are only 2 real specs wizard have, CM and Archon. Hmm, oks thanks I will give it a try.


    I wouldn't quite phrase it like that. Rather I'd say there are 2 highly optimized specs. Other specs work but for one reason or another tend to be less efficient as CM or Archon. That's not to say you can't still use them if you enjoy the spec. There are also many variations of the specs, for what that's worth.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #8
    Please Tell me How Long This Build Will Last and What Gear Should Be Better For me, i can't seem to stay alive long enough so any advice would help xD

    LoN3sOuL#1515

    thanks.
  • #9
    Quote from urda1ilub

    Please Tell me How Long This Build Will Last and What Gear Should Be Better For me, i can't seem to stay alive long enough so any advice would help xD

    LoN3sOuL#1515

    thanks.


    The build would probably work on MP0-1 but is far from optimized. CM is mostly wasted because hydra has a spell coefficient of 0 and piercing orb coefficient is too low to make effective use of CM. It looks like you're trying a kiting spec but are missing the best kiting defensive spell, teleport. My guess is you can't stay alive long because you take too long to kill mobs and can't really kite effectively. If you're dead set on the spec, or really want to run higher MP levels, I'd recommend dropping frost nova for teleport, Magic Weapon for Arcane Orb, switch hydra to Arcane, and change your passives to Glass Cannon, Illusionist, and Temporal Flux. Then you have a basic Arcane Orb kiting spec that is viable for farming higher MP levels and should still be fine for MP0-1 progression.

    If you want to be able to farm efficiently, Archon will give you the best results. There's a lot of information about those specs on these forums. With your high dps Archon might also work for progression if you can kill bosses very fast, just keep MP at 0 or 1.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #10
    i think my profiles are bugged, its not showing the correct info
    This is my build now,

    Engergy Twister - Wicked Wind
    Teleport - Facture
    Diamond Skin - Crystal Shell
    Frost Nova - Deep Freeze
    Explosion Blast - Chain Reaction
    Energy Armor - Prismatic Armor

    Passive: Critical Mass - Cold Blood - Blur

    Current DPS Around 93k
    Crit Chance Around 40%
    Crit Dmg Around 230%

    So Any Tip For Me?
  • #11
    Quote from urda1ilub

    i think my profiles are bugged, its not showing the correct info
    This is my build now,

    Engergy Twister - Wicked Wind
    Teleport - Facture
    Diamond Skin - Crystal Shell
    Frost Nova - Deep Freeze
    Explosion Blast - Chain Reaction
    Energy Armor - Prismatic Armor

    Passive: Critical Mass - Cold Blood - Blur

    Current DPS Around 93k
    Crit Chance Around 40%
    Crit Dmg Around 230%

    So Any Tip For Me?


    That's the same CM spec I use, except I switched from blur to Cold Blooded because I'm not having any problems surviving. The main question I have is what is your EHP in Prismatic Armor? I'm running around 400k, which I get from around 700 resists, 6k armor and 39k hp. Also, how much LoH and AP on Crit do you have? My recommended values for all those are some 300k EHP, 800 LoH, 38% crit, and 16AP on Crit, though obviously more of any and all of those stats makes the spec work even better. Your crit should be fine and the dps is the same that I have.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #12
    Quote from Forock


    My advice is to reroll Witch Doctor immediately...

    Okay I'm kidding...

    Seriously though okay you don't have the exact gear for CM melee; however you are not far off. All you need is an amulet and a ring with high LoH and you're set. Also use a purple gem in helm if you keep dying.

    Honestly I've tried so many variations of traditional blizz/hydra builds and I found them all to really suck even at DPS levels like 200k. Archon and CM just blow it out of the water.



    So I took your advice along with everyone elses, and I'm doing much better at killing elites at least. The only ones I have trouble on are the ones that run away, or those big hammer guys who somehow get past my freeze. Anyways, I can't kill any bosses atm, on MP3 anyways. I can kill the keywardens, but the bosses still enrage. Just don't got the dps yet. I'm considering buying a little gold, but that goes against my morals, so IDK.

    How do CM wizards deal with goblins and other mobs that "run away". Also how do they deal with enrage timers?
  • #13
    Just wanted to chime in about Blizz/hydra Wizards. I've been playing the build since launch and can handle up to MP5. I can handle more, but it's too slow. (MP5 is slow too BTW, because Hydra/Blizz is not optimal.)

    I have a set for CM and Archon, but like some others, I dont like those playstyles. The bottom line is Wizards need a serious buff to most ablilities to make anything outside os CM viable.

    Enough of that, I am just here to offer some insight to Blizz/Hydra, in case you did want to try it, even if not as your main build.

    The Good:
    You do not need LOH, LS, APOC or high crit for it to work. The obvious benefit of this is gear is much cheaper, and you have a much broader selection to pick from. I do recommend 1000 or so Life Regen though (this can be after follower and ward). This also frees you up to just pick the gear with the biggest DPS upgrade, and not have to manage as many stats.

    I find it to be a much more versatile spec, there really is nothing you can not handle once you get the hand of teleport w/ illusionist. That one spell can defeat really any combo of elites. There are some combos that definately give CM or Archon a hard time, unless you are at the break point, which take a lot of gear.

    It is fun. At least I think so, especially when everything is lines up and you are firing your free-cast signature and watching things melt. To me, it feels like a glass cannon, the reason I picked the class. It takes skill to get the hand of, and you can be creative with walls, doors, environment, and other mobs. It is a lot more fun to me than just standing in one spot spamming novas. This of course is my opinion.

    The Bad:
    The DPS is bad. Elites take longer to kill, and you have to move backwards constantly meaning you waste a lot more time running than other builds. I run at 70k DPS, so anything up to MP3/4 is fine, and things just melt in MP1-2. When you run into an especially tough elite, your hydra and blizzard can kill elites in MP1-2 without ever casting a sig-spell rather quickly. But......it's still slower than CM.

    ALthough your survivablity scales extremely well with MP level, (in other words you won't die much more as you progress) but the speed of your kills are greatly increased with MP level. At MP5, it is ridiculous even at 80k DPS, which is the main problem I think Blizzard needs to fix. An 80k Barb kills things ridiculously fast. Hell, the world first Plvl 100 only had 130k. The world first Wiz needed 221.....

    Roundup:
    Blizz/Hydra is fun, and can handle any combination of elite, and takes much less expensive gear, and much less thought on how you gear, and just feels like a Wizard. But you will sacrifice a lot of speed, and efficiency to play it.

    Edit: Just wanted to say, I am currently running a CM build in MP1-3 for efficiency. Just to point out that although I enjoy the Hydra build, I am forced away from it until Blizzard fixes it.
  • #14
    Quote from Alastrian

    Quote from Forock

    My advice is to reroll Witch Doctor immediately...

    Okay I'm kidding...

    Seriously though okay you don't have the exact gear for CM melee; however you are not far off. All you need is an amulet and a ring with high LoH and you're set. Also use a purple gem in helm if you keep dying.

    Honestly I've tried so many variations of traditional blizz/hydra builds and I found them all to really suck even at DPS levels like 200k. Archon and CM just blow it out of the water.



    So I took your advice along with everyone elses, and I'm doing much better at killing elites at least. The only ones I have trouble on are the ones that run away, or those big hammer guys who somehow get past my freeze. Anyways, I can't kill any bosses atm, on MP3 anyways. I can kill the keywardens, but the bosses still enrage. Just don't got the dps yet. I'm considering buying a little gold, but that goes against my morals, so IDK.

    How do CM wizards deal with goblins and other mobs that "run away". Also how do they deal with enrage timers?


    The only reliable way I know of to kill goblins with a CM spec is to use Archon for the last skill, over teleport. I really like teleport so I haven't tried it yet, but since I can practically stand in anything at MP7 and not have much fear of dying, I might try switching to the 1600% weapon damage rune, not just for goblins, but for a bit of extra burst against elites.

    For mobs that "run away" they're basically the bane of the spec unless you have so much attack speed that you can perma freeze them, but that means you refresh your frost nova every 1.05 seconds. Basically we have to chase them around unless you use Archon as mentioned for goblins.

    For enrage timers, I don't remember who all has them. I believe siegebreaker and Rak do. Siegebreaker's is pretty pitiful as long as you are a decently geared CM wiz, though if you're talking uber boss enrage, you will probably need more dps if you can't burn zuele before siegebreaker enrages. Same with Rak, if you can't kill him before enrage you need more dps, but because he's pretty straightforward you should have a very high dps uptime so unless you have VERY little dps his enrage shouldn't be a problem. I found 90k dps sufficient to kill the uber bosses on MP5 before the enrage became an issue. SB enraged on me just after I killed ZK but I still finished him off just fine. Rak and Ghom are so easy that the enrage timer isn't an issue as a CM wizard since you should be able to burn them very fast.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #15
    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from urda1ilub

    i think my profiles are bugged, its not showing the correct info
    This is my build now,

    Engergy Twister - Wicked Wind
    Teleport - Facture
    Diamond Skin - Crystal Shell
    Frost Nova - Deep Freeze
    Explosion Blast - Chain Reaction
    Energy Armor - Prismatic Armor

    Passive: Critical Mass - Cold Blood - Blur

    Current DPS Around 93k
    Crit Chance Around 40%
    Crit Dmg Around 230%

    So Any Tip For Me?


    That's the same CM spec I use, except I switched from blur to Cold Blooded because I'm not having any problems surviving. The main question I have is what is your EHP in Prismatic Armor? I'm running around 400k, which I get from around 700 resists, 6k armor and 39k hp. Also, how much LoH and AP on Crit do you have? My recommended values for all those are some 300k EHP, 800 LoH, 38% crit, and 16AP on Crit, though obviously more of any and all of those stats makes the spec work even better. Your crit should be fine and the dps is the same that I have.


    Well My EHP is around 230k LoH is 1057 APoC is 18, i'm trying to save up some money to get some or change my gear around any help on what gear is should be upgrading? i think my profiles is up to date now.

    LoN3sOuL#1515
  • #16
    230k EHP with prismatic armor is a bit low, but is that 230k before or after you activate Prismatic Armor? Also, you seem to have 28 APoC, since your OH has it.

    As for what to upgrade, it's really hard to tell. You really need more EHP, either from armor or resists, imo. Your hp is at a good level so while you can raise that to raise your EHP, you'll get far more survivability out of increasing your damage resistance. I'm looking over your gear and I have very similar items, though instead of a trifecta ring I'm using one with 85 int, 89 vit, and 60 resist, with 4.5 crit. It's giving me a lot of EHP (about 60k). You could try getting a new tal chest with same int, vit, and IAS but that also has Armor, around 650 ish. It's not a lot of extra armor but 250+ will probably equate to around 10k EHP, though that might cost more than it's worth for a somewhat minor EHP boost.

    Your gloves look like they could be giving you more, so maybe try looking for some high int+crit+resist all gloves and do some comparing. I'm using a pair with 265 int, 78 resist, and 8.5% crit that I got for a couple mil. With luck you can even raise your dps and convert some of the life% into resistances for higher EHP. The loss of LoH shouldn't hurt too much since your other pieces have pretty high rolls.

    I'd recommend swapping to Evocation passive, either for Blur or cold blooded, and use the cold snap rune for extra survival. That should let you keep mobs frozen more often which leads to less damage taken.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #17
    I use a weird thorns-type of melee CM variation: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#VgXYhT!bgW!Yccccc

    Maybe it's a little gear dependent, but it kicks ass. I farm my keys with it on MP7 with some deaths here and there... just cause I can't stand facerollig MP4-5 multiple times and still have no drop xD
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