Getting destroyed by the new reflect damage fix on packs on PTR 1.05- Am I the only one?

  • #21
    Quote from Loroese

    I understand the mechanics correctly reflect damage is based off your own dps and a flat damage reflect % so the new reduced damage from mobs doesn't apply to reflect damage, which may or may not been an oversight on the part of Blizzard.


    I am pretty sure this is incorrect. Obviously it's a % of your damage that is being reflected, but I am pretty positive that the amount of the percentage is dependent on the mob's damage. Reflect damage on low damage mobs like skeletons really seems to hurt much less than on high damage mobs like phase beasts and tremors.

    The dodge chance + the change to energy armor might be enough to explain it, but I'm not sure. It is very, very noticeable... on live with 2.7% lifesteal I rarely have to worry about reflect damage at all, and on most packs I hardly notice it. On the PTR with 4.2% lifesteal (functioning blood magic rune) I nearly instant kill myself against a reflect pack even on MP0. This is with only about 12% dodge and using force armor, so less of a difference than it would be with prismatic armor.

    I really think there is either an additional undocumented change to the mechanic or a bug.
  • #22
    Quote from Morphos

    Quote from Loroese

    I understand the mechanics correctly reflect damage is based off your own dps and a flat damage reflect % so the new reduced damage from mobs doesn't apply to reflect damage, which may or may not been an oversight on the part of Blizzard.


    I am pretty sure this is incorrect. Obviously it's a % of your damage that is being reflected, but I am pretty positive that the amount of the percentage is dependent on the mob's damage. Reflect damage on low damage mobs like skeletons really seems to hurt much less than on high damage mobs like phase beasts and tremors.

    The dodge chance + the change to energy armor might be enough to explain it, but I'm not sure. It is very, very noticeable... on live with 2.7% lifesteal I rarely have to worry about reflect damage at all, and on most packs I hardly notice it. On the PTR with 4.2% lifesteal (functioning blood magic rune) I nearly instant kill myself against a reflect pack even on MP0. This is with only about 12% dodge and using force armor, so less of a difference than it would be with prismatic armor.

    I really think there is either an additional undocumented change to the mechanic or a bug.


    I always suspected that the actual damage reflect amount was % based but was randomly determined via some range, like 5-20% since it really seemed like I took more damage sometimes than others.

    The difference between live and PTR at low MP was just what I was interested in so I'm inclined to agree that they must have some other change or bug. Otherwise the 1.5% from blood magic would balance with the extra damage taken from my calculations above and lead to little noticable change.
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  • #23
    Yes i tried lower MP m8.. MP0 is no problem same with MP1 and MP2( ok just a bit of a problem at this level) at MP3 the reflect is unbearable!!!

    also for reference i have no problem with going full archon dps the reflect ones on live... my life barely goes dows and thats with no lilfe steal or life leech...

    i guess we all have to get a 2hand with high life leech after all :(
  • #24
    Monsters reflect the same ammount of dmg as in 1.0.4 but your armor and resistances are lower in 1.0.5 due to defensive skill nerfs. Hence more dmg to you. Blizzard might have overlooked this issue when reducing monsterdmg but leaving the reflected ammount.
  • #25
    DH here, mainly cause I saw the post in tracker at top on homepage here. I will be blunt, I HAD 4.3% Life Steal before a recent gear change. I still had fun dying to Reflect mobs due to more dmg done than hp gained on LIVE about >_> three days ago or so? Then again I do not have monster damage punching mobs for 500k+ crits and such like wiz. As it stands now with roughly 60k dps (no sharpshooter for anyone who knows it) and 1706 Life on Hit...I can facetank the reflected damage but add in the mobs normal attacks and its different. So tack on 20% Life Steal from Shadow Power-Gloom to that 1706 LoH and I can stand there for 3s and facetank everything including molten/plague/arcane. My resists top out around 350 currently.

    So if they changed it that much on PTR that wizards are crying. I might as well go huddle up in a corner and start crying again. I just got to a point where Reflect mobs dont drag me into a closet for rapetime and now they are changing it? Sigh.

    On a side note, really wish they would tell us how Reflect Damage packs work in general. Is the damage reflected a % based on how much damage you do to them? Is it % based on how much total hp they have? RNG based on how large their vectors are to the game scale? I am really curious about this because when I had 52k dps and the Life Steal I was getting nailed for around 1200 dmg reflected. Now with 60k dps and LoH im getting hit for anything between 450-950 (and yes, im paying attention to it because its the biggest threat out there for me).

    Anyways, ill leave your wiz forum to you now :P
  • #26
    Reflect dmg is seriously bugged or something..

    Getting destroyed on PTR compared to LIVE still.... ;(

    Even lifesteal 2.5+ wont cut it.
  • #27
    One thing i wish they would do, is allow all classes to benifit from life steal on belts, not just barbs tbh.
  • #28
    i get the opposite xD i had problem with reflect damage in 1.04 and in 1.05 i dont x.X

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  • #29
    I believe the way reflect damage works is like a % mirror. It reflects a certain % (I think 10% when I reverse calculated it in act 1 a few months ago - maybe it changes from act to act) of your damage including the element you´re attacking with. This damage is reduced by your armor and resistances.

    So consider attacking with an element that you resist the most. Ever since I´ve upped my dps and reflect damage is not dodgeable anymore (my WotB barb dodges more than 1/3 of attacks) I´ve also encountered issues with this affix (my main hand is lightning which is my lowest resist). It´s almost auto-kill if there´s also electrified or molten and I play too agressively with my barb as I can´t outheal the damage I do lol.

    If it was easier to come across reflect damage monsters purposely, I would test the exact mechanics, maybe I´ll do it anyway.
  • #30
    so meteor cm spec + reflect damage is fun on mp10 while sitting at 200k damage buffed with no prismatic armor and glass cannon muwhahahahah /splat
  • #31
    Should try using Arcane Destruction rune for Archon. You one-shot yourself, even with life steal (life steal doesn't come into effect until after you deal damage). I really think Blizzard should fix that. I mean... I crit for about 3-4 million damage with Arcane Destruction. What if I equip myself with a Hellfire Ring when 1.05 goes live and the Hellfire proc one-shots me against a Reflect mob?
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  • #32
    Whatever the bug was, it's been fixed in the latest PTR patch that they deployed yesterday. Two days ago reflect damage was instant killing me on the PTR, but last night and this morning it seemed to be back to the same type of damage we see on live.
  • #33
    considering this happened to me just before i posted (after the ptr update) but then again running with glass cannon and no prismatic armor does make one a little squishy against reflect.... also has anybody checked if storm armor effects give you loh/lifesteal or if it just gives you more damage to yourself vs reflect mobs
  • #34
    Hurray !

    Whatever they did... they hotfixed this ridiculous reflect damage issue... I now have NO problems with reflect dmg.. same as on LIVE now... and this is even without life leech..... YEAH :o

    Rolling on monster lvl 6 now... going good with 190k dps....

    GIEV ME THE PATCH NOW :P
  • #35
    nevermind..
  • #36
    Quote from MasterFischer

    Hurray !

    Whatever they did... they hotfixed this ridiculous reflect damage issue... I now have NO problems with reflect dmg.. same as on LIVE now... and this is even without life leech..... YEAH :o

    Rolling on monster lvl 6 now... going good with 190k dps....

    GIEV ME THE PATCH NOW :P


    good to know man!! i just checked it and it seems pretty much better with the reflect things.. mind posting ur mp6 gear and spec m8 ?

    cheers for the info
  • #37
    Good info, thx.
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  • #38
    Quote from Nubtro

    I believe the way reflect damage works is like a % mirror. It reflects a certain % (I think 10% when I reverse calculated it in act 1 a few months ago - maybe it changes from act to act) of your damage including the element you´re attacking with. This damage is reduced by your armor and resistances.

    So consider attacking with an element that you resist the most. Ever since I´ve upped my dps and reflect damage is not dodgeable anymore (my WotB barb dodges more than 1/3 of attacks) I´ve also encountered issues with this affix (my main hand is lightning which is my lowest resist). It´s almost auto-kill if there´s also electrified or molten and I play too agressively with my barb as I can´t outheal the damage I do lol.

    If it was easier to come across reflect damage monsters purposely, I would test the exact mechanics, maybe I´ll do it anyway.


    I'll be very interested if someone actually tested it, or got some evidence on what type of damage (ie what resistance matters) regarding reflect damage.

    Assuming I'm using arcane missile with weapon with fire damage (just for an example).

    The reflected damage could be:
    -Based on the skill used (in this case Arcane damage)
    -Always of a specific type (could be Physical then or something else)
    -Based on the weapon used (in this case mostly Fire damage)
    -Average resist
    -Highest resist
    -Lowest resist
  • #39
    OK I found the time to test this. I was right about the % that´s reflected but not about the element.

    My axe does lightning damage, dagger does fire damage and afterwards used an echoing fury (physical damage)

    5461 armor, 612 phys, 564 fire, 522 lightning
    746 / 85788 axe 0.8696%
    172 / 19778 dag 0.8697%
    179 / 20595 axe 0.8691%
    210 / 24100 dag 0.8713%
    139 / 15954 axe 0.8713%
    883 / 101481 dag 0.8701%
    675 / 77642 axe 0.8694%
    733 / 84275 dag 0.8698%
    812 / 93348 axe 0.8699%
    184 / 21201 dag 0.8679%
    792 / 91085 axe 0.8695%
    925 / 106396 dag 0.8694%
    769 / 88379 axe 0.8701%
    ------------------------------------
    5173 armor, 598 phys
    1148 / 125642 echo 0.9137%
    1177 / 128763 echo 0.9141%
    796 / 87075 echo 0.9142%
    832 / 91049 echo 0.9138%
    247 / 27041 echo 0.9134%

    LIGHTNING
    0.7 * 0.3658112 * 0.3763441
    = 9.6369621% dmg taken
    reflect = 9.0277412%

    FIRE
    0.7 * 0.3658112 * 0.3583618
    = 9.1764932% dmg taken
    reflect = 9.48%

    PHYSICAL (1)
    0.7 * 0.3658112 * 0.3398058252427184
    = 8.7013344% dmg taken
    reflect = 9.998466477811951%

    PHYSICAL (2)
    0.7 * 0.3784693 * 0.3450164
    = 9.1404681% dmg taken
    reflect = 9.99948788180772%

    You don´t have to understand the calculations but the result is that it´s indeed 10% of the damage done, lowered by armor and physical resistance (did not have elite damage reduction but I assume that would lower it as well).

    Yeah, reflect damage is physical damage. Keep that in mind.
  • #40
    Quote from Nubtro

    OK I found the time to test this. I was right about the % that´s reflected but not about the element.

    My axe does lightning damage, dagger does fire damage and afterwards used an echoing fury (physical damage)

    5461 armor, 612 phys, 564 fire, 522 lightning
    746 / 85788 axe 0.8696%
    172 / 19778 dag 0.8697%
    179 / 20595 axe 0.8691%
    210 / 24100 dag 0.8713%
    139 / 15954 axe 0.8713%
    883 / 101481 dag 0.8701%
    675 / 77642 axe 0.8694%
    733 / 84275 dag 0.8698%
    812 / 93348 axe 0.8699%
    184 / 21201 dag 0.8679%
    792 / 91085 axe 0.8695%
    925 / 106396 dag 0.8694%
    769 / 88379 axe 0.8701%
    ------------------------------------
    5173 armor, 598 phys
    1148 / 125642 echo 0.9137%
    1177 / 128763 echo 0.9141%
    796 / 87075 echo 0.9142%
    832 / 91049 echo 0.9138%
    247 / 27041 echo 0.9134%

    LIGHTNING
    0.7 * 0.3658112 * 0.3763441
    = 9.6369621% dmg taken
    reflect = 9.0277412%

    FIRE
    0.7 * 0.3658112 * 0.3583618
    = 9.1764932% dmg taken
    reflect = 9.48%

    PHYSICAL (1)
    0.7 * 0.3658112 * 0.3398058252427184
    = 8.7013344% dmg taken
    reflect = 9.998466477811951%

    PHYSICAL (2)
    0.7 * 0.3784693 * 0.3450164
    = 9.1404681% dmg taken
    reflect = 9.99948788180772%

    You don´t have to understand the calculations but the result is that it´s indeed 10% of the damage done, lowered by armor and physical resistance (did not have elite damage reduction but I assume that would lower it as well).

    Yeah, reflect damage is physical damage. Keep that in mind.


    Thanks for the info. I had heard it was physical damage before but I wasn't exactly sure. Just to be clear, this was performed on live or the ptr?
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