Chantodos Set vs Rare 1 hand and Oculus?

  • #1
    Hi,

    I am trying to work out what I should aim for to not only improve my DPS but also to know what would be better overall to aim for.

    I started off thinking Chantodo’s set would be the best – with the set bonus of an extra 130 int.

    However – the best Chantodo’s wand would be one with a socket to get 100% crit damage. If Chantodo's Will could have a socket and crit damage affix this would have been hands down the best.

    So now I am thinking that a rare 1 hand with 80-100 crit damage + socket and an Oculus offhand would be better?

    Any guidance would be great.

    Cheers

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/CheehC-6200/hero/1154305
  • #2
    Try using a dps spreadsheet. There's one in my sig that I developed myself, mainly for wizards but there are others around the web that should also work.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #3
    Quote from Loroese

    Try using a dps spreadsheet. There's one in my sig that I developed myself, mainly for wizards but there are others around the web that should also work.


    Use spreadsheets (any accurate DPS calculators). That's what I did. Lucky I found my Chantodo's Will, but it basically indirectly asked me to go buy myself a Chantodo's Force to make use of the wand.

    Punch in the numbers yourself to see which one gives you a better bang for your buck.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #4
    I guess there is the straight statistical answer of which has higher DPS on a spreadsheet.
    However, there are things that the spreadsheet doesn’t cover – eg Build

    Do the 2 options I listed go better with certain builds .

    Eg is a Perfect rolled Chantodo’s Set with Archon build > Perfectly rolled 1 hand Rare and Oculus (with 20AP on crit) CM build

    It also leads to questions in PVP as to which would be better – not just act 3 inferno efficiency farming

    So sort of want some theoretical opinions as well.

    Cheers
  • #5
    Theoretically, a rare will beat chantodo's set. When you are already at 2k+ INT, the extra 130 INT over the rares (including set bonus; rare source gives more INT) doesn't come close to an extra 100% crit damage when you have high crit chance. Furthermore, with a rare, you can get life steal, or atleast LoH.
    The advantage of Chantodo's set is the guaranteed INT, damage, and APoC without searching through hundreds of rares.

    I hope that answers your question.
    My little Pet: Wizard and his ranking
  • #6
    You also cannot ignore that the Chandtodo's wand has a much higher base swing speed, thus greatly increasing the dps gains from IAS and +min/max stats on all other pieces of gear.
  • #7
    Just for the sake of complicating things further, it is probably worth taking the other legendary OH into consideration, The Triumvirate. If you end up with a MH that has all physical damage that OH is probably going to be fairly competetive with the Oculus, especially if you already have a lot of attack speed on gear.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #8
    Quote from CheehC
    However – the best Chantodo’s wand would be one with a socket to get 100% crit damage. If Chantodo's Will could have a socket and crit damage affix this would have been hands down the best.


    This would be impossible, the wand only gets one random affix (game guide is incorrect on several legendary items).

    I personally dropped the thought of Chantodo's set due to the fact that it only gets one random affix hence is unable to roll LoH or LS with a socket or CD, physical weapon with Triumvirate works much better in my opinion.
  • #9
    Quote from Bozse

    Quote from CheehC
    However – the best Chantodo’s wand would be one with a socket to get 100% crit damage. If Chantodo's Will could have a socket and crit damage affix this would have been hands down the best.


    This would be impossible, the wand only gets one random affix (game guide is incorrect on several legendary items).

    I personally dropped the thought of Chantodo's set due to the fact that it only gets one random affix hence is unable to roll LoH or LS with a socket or CD, physical weapon with Triumvirate works much better in my opinion.


    Is it known if the current 1 random rolls on chantodos are intended? Is the bug in the item itself or is it a typo in the guide?
  • #10
    Quote from BDF2000

    Quote from Bozse

    Quote from CheehC
    However – the best Chantodo’s wand would be one with a socket to get 100% crit damage. If Chantodo's Will could have a socket and crit damage affix this would have been hands down the best.


    This would be impossible, the wand only gets one random affix (game guide is incorrect on several legendary items).

    I personally dropped the thought of Chantodo's set due to the fact that it only gets one random affix hence is unable to roll LoH or LS with a socket or CD, physical weapon with Triumvirate works much better in my opinion.


    Is it known if the current 1 random rolls on chantodos are intended? Is the bug in the item itself or is it a typo in the guide?


    No idea, not seen any blue post on the subject but would assume the error is on the website as some items that has the error would be insanely good if they got the amount of randoms that it suggest.
  • #11
    Yeah I am fairly sure you cannot get a Chantodo's Will with Socket and Crit damage - that's why I said it would be hands down the winner if it were possible.
    I think it is intended as otherwise I think it would clearly be 'best in slot' .

    I looked at Triumvirate - but the elemental damage calculation thing confuses me... should probably look into it though.

    I think that since i found Chantodo's Will I will get Chantodo's force for now.
    However, i think an Oculus and Rare 1 hand with 200% Crit Damage total is what i will aim for at the end.

    Cheers
  • #12
    Quote from CheehC
    I looked at Triumvirate - but the elemental damage calculation thing confuses me... should probably look into it though.


    It's quite simple, your low end weapon damage gets increased by X%*2, the only confusion about it is that it only applies to physical damage hence you are best off using a black weapon with it for max effect, additional minimum damage on other items is included in the calculation as well.
  • #13
    On a side note, I was looking at the gear of top DPS wizards in the world, and only 1 among the top 10 uses chantodo's set.
    Here's the link. This is also a good way to see what to aim for.
    My little Pet: Wizard and his ranking
  • #14
    I'm personally only running my Chantodo's Will until I can find a 1h 1200+, 175-200% crit, int weapon to go with a high-end Triumvirate or better Chantodo's Force.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #15
    If you end up with a MH that has all physical damage that OH is probably going to be fairly competetive with the Oculus, especially if you already have a lot of attack speed on gear.

    I guess you mean the triumvirate?
    To the OP, id be going to chantodo`s, i had a pretty good set once but I sold it =*( because of the "student life".

    Honestly, I feel that chantodo`s is the best overall option when you reach higher gear levels (good mitigation) because of the really good AS and the fact that it guarantees you both APoC and Max AP. Less damage from elites is pretty good as well. Decent mitigation is needed because you will not have any leech from your weapon, unless you go for LoH on rings/amulets.
    You can argue for somewhat doubtful utility of the teleport on the oculus or the bonus of tal rasha`s set, but I think that chantodo`s wand icon, which looks like a giant lollipop, beats all those other reasons.
  • #16
    Quote from safka

    If you end up with a MH that has all physical damage that OH is probably going to be fairly competetive with the Oculus, especially if you already have a lot of attack speed on gear.

    I guess you mean the triumvirate?
    To the OP, id be going to chantodo`s, i had a pretty good set once but I sold it =*( because of the "student life".

    Honestly, I feel that chantodo`s is the best overall option when you reach higher gear levels (good mitigation) because of the really good AS and the fact that it guarantees you both APoC and Max AP. Less damage from elites is pretty good as well. Decent mitigation is needed because you will not have any leech from your weapon, unless you go for LoH on rings/amulets.
    You can argue for somewhat doubtful utility of the teleport on the oculus or the bonus of tal rasha`s set, but I think that chantodo`s wand icon, which looks like a giant lollipop, beats all those other reasons.


    Yes, I was referring to the Triumvirate, which I mentioned in the sentence before that. I'm not sure which ends up being higher dps and I was mostly looking at it from a dps perspective. In terms of utility, I'm not sure what all affixes it can spawn with so if you can't get APoC then it probably isn't as useful for a CM based build. Also it relies on having a weapon with only physical damage. When shopping for high end MHs you probably won't have a lot of choices so finding one with just physical damage might not be an option.

    For some reason the thought of clearing Whimsyshire with a giant lollipop seems funny.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #17
    When shopping for high end MHs you probably won't have a lot of choices so finding one with just physical damage might not be an option.

    I don`t know, pretty much every 1hander with dps>1k on AH is black. I guess if you have to hit over 1k dps on a weapon, you need to get +min +max damage and %damage as properties and they somehow exclude +elemental damage property?

    In terms of utility, I'm not sure what all affixes it can spawn with so if you can't get APoC then it probably isn't as useful for a CM based build

    It says here that it can roll 1 random property which can end up being APoC, I also reckon that I saw some of those on the AH. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/triumvirate

    For some reason the thought of clearing Whimsyshire with a giant lollipop seems funny.

    =)
  • #18
    Yeah, elemental damage on weapons don't benefit from the +damage% modifier. The elemental damage range themselves are actually slightly larger than the physical ones, so there definitely are 1200+ dps elemental weapons on the AH though, just not that many.

    Chantodo's Will/Force is a high-end setup that I don't think really is worth its price. For example, just today I was looking over upgrades over my 40 mil triumvirate offhand, and I started plugging in Chantodo's force numbers. The first Chantodo that actually beat the triumvirate (by a grand total of 68 dps!) was priced at 290 million - and a lot of that comes from the attack speed "fluff" damage. Also, as mentioned previously, the wand itself cannot spawn socket and lifesteal, which is a bummer.
  • #19
    Quote from kaiadam
    Also, as mentioned previously, the wand itself cannot spawn socket and lifesteal, which is a bummer.


    The life steal on the weapon is not really a major. I have an alright amulet with life on kill which means I hopefully won't need life steal on my main hand.

    I have a good amount racked up on RMAH from lots of $2 and $3 sales (anything over $5 was sent to pay pal). Have never put my own money into this game so the battle net balance is just another form of in game currency to me. So might buy an average chantodo’s force for $8 or less and try get as close to 100k dps as I can. Then just grind/farm for a while and either hope to get some lucky drops or just build up a good amount of gold/$ from the AH's.
  • #20
    Well, unless your AH is vastly different from mines, the lowest chantodo's offhand is around 20 mil/$20 and an average one is around 100 mil/$100.

    Also, while LoK may be great when your dps is low, once it starts growing, you'll definitely feel the pain from reflect packs - they'll become a delicate dance of how little you can graze the others in the pack while downing them one at a time and kiting them to the health orbs they drop.

    Anyway, my argument, essentially, is that you can probably buy the same level of dps using a rare + triumvirate as you could with one fifth the money used to purchase a chantodo's set, and the first combo has optional affixes such as socket *and* crit or life steal etc.
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