1.0.4: The end of Critical Mass?

  • #21
    Nobody feels the same, at least of those who have any sense. Remember how it was the end of IAS in that one patch? How nobody would ever want it again? Well... Didn't seem to happen. It will be fine for people who have the adequate gear for it, it will probably be more difficult for people in subpar gear anyway so it doesn't matter, it just makes it more balanced.
  • #22
    good point, crit mass isn't dead.. just rolling in it's grave..
  • #23
    Quote from zach3427

    funny they're nerfing wizard tornadoes.. but not barb..


    Completely different playstyle, completely different issues, completely different topic. Don't bring that slippery-slope garbage in here.
  • #24
    how is it different, both classes are utilizing tornadoes because they're not "balanced" correctly..

    and the point I was really tying to say was that the only reason they're nerfing the tornadoes is because of legendaries..
  • #25
    Holy crap, I knew this was strong - but that's just outright OP as hell.

    I'm amazed this wasn't hotfixed with the Living Lightning one. Infinite Frost Novas are NOT balanced!

    Quote from zach3427

    how is it different, both classes are utilizing tornadoes because they're not "balanced" correctly..

    and the point I was really tying to say was that the only reason they're nerfing the tornadoes is because of legendaries..


    wat, This was nerfed because you could infinitely lock down GROUPS of enemies. How is this hard to comprehend? I'd compare this to the Ghom Glitches, I'm really just amazed this made it through the cracks at blizzard.
  • #26
    Quote from Sikk

    Typical. Nerf the fun stuff, make the game even more boring ;)


    actually i find crit mass wizzard quite boring. sure it was pretty fun at first however when i got some gear i endedup just blindly mashing 1-3 while holding the left mousebutton. thats the most boring thing i can think about.
  • #27
    "In the case of Energy Twister, specifically Wicked Wind, the 0.25 proc coefficient causes the skill to generate more procs in a given time period than any other skill. Currently, this is used in combination with Critical Mass to lower the cooldown on skills like Frost Nova and Diamond Skin. By reducing the proc coefficient from 0.25 to 0.125, the build still works and remains fairly strong, but it won’t be quite as good as it is now. (For those with extremely high Crit rates, you may not even notice much difference, but I wanted to call it out anyway. )

    Originally, we weren’t going to make this change, but 1.0.4 also brings with it a number of new Legendary items, and many of them have phenomenal new proc effects. If we left high proc coefficients as they were, then a handful of skills with higher coefficients would become the de facto choice to use with these sexy new items. We were faced with a choice: we could either reduce the proc coefficient, or we could make it so these skills could not trigger the procs on Legendary items at all. We opted for the former because it seemed like getting a Legendary with a proc effect but never seeing it trigger would be very disappointing. Regardless, having well-balanced proc coefficients on all skills is not only better for Legendaries, but also for the long-term of the game."
  • #28
    Quote from Doez

    The only thing about this post that bothers me is that the OP constantly drops his videos on this forum trying to get more viewers, and not contribute or have a rebuttal when people call out any nonsense. It'll be deja vu tomorrow.

    Glad I'm not the only one seeing this, lol.
  • #29
    Quote from zach3427

    "In the case of Energy Twister, specifically Wicked Wind, the 0.25 proc coefficient causes the skill to generate more procs in a given time period than any other skill. Currently, this is used in combination with Critical Mass to lower the cooldown on skills like Frost Nova and Diamond Skin. By reducing the proc coefficient from 0.25 to 0.125, the build still works and remains fairly strong, but it won’t be quite as good as it is now. (For those with extremely high Crit rates, you may not even notice much difference, but I wanted to call it out anyway. )

    Originally, we weren’t going to make this change, but 1.0.4 also brings with it a number of new Legendary items, and many of them have phenomenal new proc effects. If we left high proc coefficients as they were, then a handful of skills with higher coefficients would become the de facto choice to use with these sexy new items. We were faced with a choice: we could either reduce the proc coefficient, or we could make it so these skills could not trigger the procs on Legendary items at all. We opted for the former because it seemed like getting a Legendary with a proc effect but never seeing it trigger would be very disappointing. Regardless, having well-balanced proc coefficients on all skills is not only better for Legendaries, but also for the long-term of the game."


    Sigh - you're still not getting it. You think you're comparing tornadoes to tornadoes, but you're not. The problem wasn't the use of the ability, it was the proc coefficient on the ability itself.

    The math is plain as day for you to see - energy twister was procing Critical Mass 25% of the time. That is to say, 1 in every 4 crits was triggering the effect. This has been reduced to 12.5% of the time. Barbarians do not have any such skill to warrant a nerf to proc coefficients (yes, they have WotB, but that isn't permanently disabling mobs, making them beating posts with no actual threat of death).

    Seriously, how is this hard to comprehend?
  • #30
    DOUBLE TORNADO...

    HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.
  • #31
    Dude, hahahaha. So I see lots of beautiful discussion here. And then half the discussions just end with "your a baby", "CRY SOME MOAR", "deal with it". Aren't we all here to have fun and discuss this game we all love?? No need for the negative comments, especially when you have something insightful then just end it on a sour note.


    On topic: It's not a true nerf, it's just making proc rates more in line with what Blizzard originally intended. CM build is still going to be around in september, it's just you're not going to have infinite health and eat mobs alive. From what I've gathered CM is going to be that high end build where it's much more gear dependant then other builds.

    Which I personally find alright. Builds built around critical hits should be heavily gear dependant.
  • #32
    You guys realize that meteor is a viable replacement for WW right? Especially if they reduce the cost :) Currently you can get by with replacing ww with meteor shower.
  • #33
    not trying to be negative at all.. just trying to point out that barbs are going to be super op with legendaries because they escaped the nadonerf..
  • #35
    Quote from zach3427

    not trying to be negative at all.. just trying to point out that barbs are going to be super op with legendaries because they escaped the nadonerf..


    Maybe if you understood that some barbs have near perfect weapons already that will still be better than the new legendaries coming out, you'd see nothing is going to change and has absolutely nothing in common with the change to wizard tornadoes. I think you understand this matter as well as your monk titan's grip post lol. Just stop already.
  • #36
    Quote from zach3427

    DOUBLE TORNADO...

    HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.

    I think the issue here is that the Barbarian build requires a few more execution skills. You need to use sprint at the right pace or risk running out of fury, manage your resources with BC/WW/Sprint, never forget to use Battle Cry, is very vulnerable to Vortex/Shielding/Jailer, and doesn't perma-disable enemies (I think this might be the biggest issue).

    You can't even cast 4-5 Barbarian tornadoes on the same place, you have to run around correctly to place those (with Wicked Wind you can easily place them), and even considering all that WW had a better proc coefficient (.25 compared to .20 of Sprint).

    I have a Barbarian (although he's a Throw Barb now, he was a Tornado Barb before) and I tried my friend's Meele Wiz, the Wizard is much easier to use than the Barbarian, execution-wise, imho.

    Quote from proletaria

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    So really, don't take this too seriously guys ;)

    Please lock inflammatory troll threads

    I allowed this to stay open because I figured either people would take it lightly and laugh at the whole drama from the video (I kinda did), or they would want to discuss the changes to Wicked Wind (which is what is kinda happening, comparing it with Barbarian's WW).

    But I see your point.
  • #37
    I'm talking about legendary procs here guys.. that's what is going to be super op.. a nado barb having his angel/demon minion up 3/4th's of the time.
  • #38
    Quote from zach3427

    I'm talking about legendary procs here guys.. that's what is going to be super op.. a nado barb having his angel/demon minion up 3/4th's of the time.


    You don't even know if there's a cap on the total number you can have up at any one time, or if certain abilities will not be allowed to proc those weapon effects.

    Stop with the speculation for the love of kittens everywhere.

    *edit - IE + Proxy = FFFFFFFFFFFFF
  • #39
    Quote from zach3427

    I'm talking about legendary procs here guys.. that's what is going to be super op.. a nado barb having his angel/demon minion up 3/4th's of the time.


    Again, as Zero has already pointed out, the proc on the barbarian Tornados was already lower than the wizard's. Also, the barbarians can't control their tonados like the wizard can. A barbarian has a lot of things they have to do in order to make those tornados where as a wizard had only one real button to push and they could place it as they saw fit.

    The difference here is logistcis. A tornado at the wrong place is useless and a barbarian has to move around a lot to try and get a tornado right where they want it. It's night and day how those two skills work.
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  • #40
    "We were faced with a choice: we could either reduce the proc coefficient, or we could make it so these skills could not trigger the procs on Legendary items at all. We opted for the former because it seemed like getting a Legendary with a proc effect but never seeing it trigger would be very disappointing. Regardless, having well-balanced proc coefficients on all skills is not only better for Legendaries, but also for the long-term of the game."
  • #41
    You keep quoting blue posts but don't seem to be quite grasping the argument here.
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
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