300k obliteration arcane orb crit build - farming inferno act3/4/whimsy

  • #21
    Here is the rest of my gear: http://i.imgur.com/PNEll.jpg

    There is definitely a lot of room for improvement on it. Next priority is a weapon though I think, and those are very expensive.



    Here's a question for you and I think I might know the answer but want to here your experience. Just from the screenshots you have up, it looks as if you probably just have 12% run speed? I didn't notice something like lacuni's or hammer's. I'm assuming you can be comfortable with that because you can launch your orbs at good distance and either kill instantly or by the time they start closing they drop dead because of the high damage you put out with the crits?


    Yeah, I have just 12% run speed. I was nervous about dropping it also, and when I sold my lacunis I was worried I was making a mistake, but I figured I could always go back to it if need be. Anyways, movement speed is really good and it would be nice to have more, but I've found that it isn't strictly necessary. Again, yeah, trying to burst things down is the key. You do have to kite elites/champs some though, of course, and movement speed would be nice but I've found with temporal flux and teleport I've been able to do fine without it.

    On a related note though I have been switching back and forth constantly between venom hydra and arcane hydra and I think I am beginning to like arcane hydra more. The total damage is lower, but it is more front loaded and it crits for high damage and it applies the constant temporal flux slow that makes having only 12% movement speed more viable.
  • #22
    I think that, even though the ias% will get nerfd in the upcoming patch(we dont know "how it will be nerfd"), I think it is important to have some ias% because, unilke what it was in D2(that had fcr%), in D3 ias seems to affect the cast rate speed.
  • #23

    I think that, even though the ias% will get nerfd in the upcoming patch(we dont know "how it will be nerfd"), I think it is important to have some ias% because, unilke what it was in D2(that had fcr%), in D3 ias seems to affect the cast rate speed.


    I am definitely not saying that IAS is bad or that you shouldn't use IAS gear. I just decided to try something different, and I figure the price on IAS gear will drop some after the nerf at which point I'll just buy some of it back if I decide I want it.

    This build is definitely working for me though with a 1.0 speed weapon and no IAS gear, although I am not saying IAS is bad at all I am saying it is possible to farm endgame without it.
  • #24

    Well I don't really agree... I haven't seen 1 instance where I would want to take a 2h over a 1h + source.. other than yes.. cheaper?

    but cmon man... its not THAT expensive to get a good 1h and source... and u can just farm shit.. earn millions.... i got great gear... and i did so by just farming a little.. and playing the AH markets smartly... anyway

    And yes.. u run out of arcane power faster with a 1h.... but you also do twice the amount of dmg in a short time than a 2h does.... ergo the fastness of it. Having high ap on crit + maximum arcane power ... solves this problem.

    Also having a high crit (which obviously any wizard should aim to have) is a must need and not that hard to get either.


    And btw... do you really think Blizz is gonna nerf all items with IAS across the board? That would upset quite alot of people, seeing as all the IAS gear is the most expensive.

    All they said was they change drop stats on new items... and they add diminishing returns on HIGH IAS.. obviously this means that IAS should still be a viable stat to get 15-30 % of... instead of just not having it at all... why else have a stat like IAS if it sucks? :)


    You should really get a clue of theorycrafting before spreading your stuck up opinion onto others. By current AH prices you can get the same DPS from a 2h or a 1h+OH, DPS is damage per second, not damage per strike. You do absolutely not do more damage just by going 1h+OH unless your 1h+OH combination is simply better than your 2h, in which case it'll be much more expensive.

    The OP also uses Obliteration with a 2h for a reason. Having a slow attack speed and high damage per hit allows him to have a low resource expenditure even while not using Tap the Source. You told him to go Tap the Source because you run out of AP fast using Obliteration. You realize if he goes 1h (1.4 speed)+OH and Tap the Source instead of 2h (0.95 speed)+Obliteration he'll do 52% of the damage per hit (assuming same total DPS, so this is even in favor of 1h+OH) at 47% higher attack speed and 85% of AP expenditure. Thus he'd lose 24% damage per cast time (DPS) and 9% damage per AP. You need pretty crazy stats on your 1h+OH combination to make up for that, and that'll cost you once again.

    And as for %AS:
    Unlike what you suggested in your first post, Blizzard's last statement said they'll likely not go with the diminishing returns and just go with the overall %AS nerf for transparency reasons. %AS will always be preferably over nothing, but if it comes at a cost of %Crit or %Critdamage, it'll often not be worth it for the OP's build since %AS also increases your AP expenditure.

    @OP:
    I've been using a fairly similar build for a while now. Actually it's been the exact same one unless for the teleport rune (using Fracture) and Arcane Orb rune (been switching around frequently since my Wizard gear isn't really good yet and I don't feel like spending my remaining gold before 1.03).
    And just by the way, have you tried including some % lifesteal into your build? You probably don't need it since you can burst most packs but with your Arcane Orb numbers, you're at a point where you'd get back some significant HP from % lifesteal even after the Inferno tax.
  • #25
    Nice, I switched again on 2h weapon (1187dps), 28,50% crit, 150% crit damage with tap the source i'm critting for 150k and i have only 1800 int :D
  • #26

    Here are my stats and my weapon: http://imgur.com/a/Qzjnd

    I took SS's of all my gear and of a 300k crit on an inferno pony at home but forgot to put them up before I went to work, so I can't get them now. I'll try to remember to upload this evening.

    To answer a couple of questions:

    Tap the source / celestial orb vs obliteration orb -

    I am sure both of these are viable choices. Tap the source may even be better than obliterate, but I use obliterate for 2 reasons. First, this build really relies on you just blowing something up. If its white mobs they should die in 1-2 hits. If its a champ pack, the way you win is to unload 3 obliterate orbs into 1 of the champs at max range which will do 300-900k damage. Then you run a bit and do it again, and pretty quickly that one is dead. Tap the source would obviously be better with a 1 hand+source though, but that brings me to the next issue.

    1H/source vs 2hand -

    If you prefer 1h/source over 2 hand, go for it. I'm sure its great, I'm not going to tell you its bad. But I switched for 2 reasons. First, and probably most importantly for me, I was just bored of using dagger/source after clearing inferno and wanted to try something different.

    Second, because of the nature of how sources work, 1h/source dps will scale much higher with attack speed than a 2 hander will. This is because the source is a flat +dmg modifier and stays the same whether you are using a 1.2 speed mace or a 1.5 speed dagger, and therefore adds much more dmg/dps with the dagger. This makes you kind of reliant on attack speed for high dps, and once you have a ton of attack speed you'll want to use piercing orb over arcane orb and now you're back to the piercing orb/blizz/vhydra build.

    Beyond that, even though you will get equivalent DPS numbers with 1h+source, you will not get equivalent weapon damage numbers and therefore your arcane orbs won't hit as hard. This makes a lot of difference for this build, because the whole premise of the build is to quickly burst down stuff with very large hits. This does deplete your arcane power, obviously, but you wait for it to regen and then do it again. If thats not your style and you would rather always have arcane power and always be casting something, you are probably better off with 1h+source and piercing orb/blizz/vhydra. That build is great and will stay great, this is just something different.


    You won't see as big numbers... no... but does it matter?

    You will do more damage per second, so maybe u hit once for 300k... ill hit the mob to times for 200k each = 400k in the same time frame that you will.. because I do higher dmg per second and I also attack faster, hence why im doing faster attacks..

    Monsters go squish just as big and fast with a 1h and source as they do with a 2hander, provided you got the crit chance and crit dmg to back it up.


    I crit for around 220-250k each hit.. and i can spam arcane orb all day and almost never run out. the time it take sfor your slow arcane orb to hit the mob, i will already have fired off 3, hitting the target almost instant afterwards.. doing 3x the damage your orb did.

    But yea... if u like to look at pretty yellow numbers once in a while, i guess this build is the stuff :)
  • #27
    My point is simply that we have similar stats, yet i'm quite certain i'll mow through the monsters faster than you will, without kiting too, and this is using a 1h and a source... with the same build as u .. well almost... i dont have teleport. I just stand and nuke.. run back, nuke = win.

    Yea I don't get 300k crits, true... but i'm not using obliteration rune, because it saps all your arcane power in 5 secs... tap the source is much more cost effective for what is does, compared to a smaller margin of dmg increase from bigger hits.

    I will fire 3 orbs in the same time you will fire 1 (and i will thus do more damage per second than you will too) , and I will still have more arcane power left once this is done, because tap the source drastically reduces arcane power usage AND also.. my source gives my arcane power on critical which is VERY important.. when u crit as much as I do. (35% crit chance).

    I'm not trying to bring you down or anything... just trying to understand people with 2handers :)
  • #28
    wanna give some input on this thread as I myself play a slow 2h focusing on crit % and dmg.
    firstly, this is my own personal opinion which I strongly believe but you can do whatever is better, tap the source is MUCH better for killing elites FASTER than obliteration rune. the dmg/AP for tap the source is so much better than obliteration, since for elites you're not gonna kill them wtih your initial 100/80 AP that you have.
    presently, my stats are 62k dps with FW rune, 20k hp, 20% crit, 160% crit dmg. 1.2x sec/attack, yeah i know im undergeared cuz i don't have much time to play the game. But i was farming act 3 siege breaker when my DPS was just only 30k, and that was without tyrael because i started the quest at machines of war -_-??

    I play a similar build as you. (dumping IAS and going crit dmg and crit% with a slow 2h)
    It's not only the upcoming IAS nerf that makes this build good, but I theory crafted once before about the wizard damage resource : ARCANE POWER, which is KEY to wizard's SUSTAINED damage while kiting/damaging elites.

    You have 100 available or 80 (with force armour) and regen 10/sec or 12/sec (with passive)
    the reason why this works so well is because the damage output of this build (forsaking IAS for crit dmg+%) is insane, and going IAS instead of crit dmg+% would mean you would getting less damage from each arcane power abilities, as its a fixed regenerative resource.

    Consider the situation where you would expend your AP with higher AS, hitting for less using arcane orb, and when you run out of AP you would have to use a signature spell or perhaps just wait if you did not take a signature spell. Conversely, with slow attack speed and higher crit% and dmg, you expend your AP higher but each AP hits for almost double of the previous fast AS build. You expend AP slower and hence your DMG/AP usage is much better than going for IAS built with fast 1H over crit%+dmg with slow 2h.
  • #29
    Make a video where you clear siegebreaker with 5 stacks in a fast timeframe.

    Would like to see how it handles.
  • #30

    wanna give some input on this thread as I myself play a slow 2h focusing on crit % and dmg.
    firstly, this is my own personal opinion which I strongly believe but you can do whatever is better, tap the source is MUCH better for killing elites FASTER than obliteration rune. the dmg/AP for tap the source is so much better than obliteration, since for elites you're not gonna kill them wtih your initial 100/80 AP that you have.
    presently, my stats are 62k dps with FW rune, 20k hp, 20% crit, 160% crit dmg. 1.2x sec/attack, yeah i know im undergeared cuz i don't have much time to play the game. But i was farming act 3 siege breaker when my DPS was just only 30k, and that was without tyrael because i started the quest at machines of war -_-??

    I play a similar build as you. (dumping IAS and going crit dmg and crit% with a slow 2h)
    It's not only the upcoming IAS nerf that makes this build good, but I theory crafted once before about the wizard damage resource : ARCANE POWER, which is KEY to wizard's SUSTAINED damage while kiting/damaging elites.

    You have 100 available or 80 (with force armour) and regen 10/sec or 12/sec (with passive)
    the reason why this works so well is because the damage output of this build (forsaking IAS for crit dmg+%) is insane, and going IAS instead of crit dmg+% would mean you would getting less damage from each arcane power abilities, as its a fixed regenerative resource.

    Consider the situation where you would expend your AP with higher AS, hitting for less using arcane orb, and when you run out of AP you would have to use a signature spell or perhaps just wait if you did not take a signature spell. Conversely, with slow attack speed and higher crit% and dmg, you expend your AP higher but each AP hits for almost double of the previous fast AS build. You expend AP slower and hence your DMG/AP usage is much better than going for IAS built with fast 1H over crit%+dmg with slow 2h.


    furthermore, if you have really high attack speed while kiting compared to lower attack speed, it's hard to get perfect casts in between kiting, aka casting and moving, thus some of that attack speed that you pumped into your gear might be negligible when you are kiting. while with a slow IAS it's much easier to get perfect casts+kite
  • #31

    My point is simply that we have similar stats, yet i'm quite certain i'll mow through the monsters faster than you will, without kiting too, and this is using a 1h and a source... with the same build as u .. well almost... i dont have teleport. I just stand and nuke.. run back, nuke = win.

    Yea I don't get 300k crits, true... but i'm not using obliteration rune, because it saps all your arcane power in 5 secs... tap the source is much more cost effective for what is does, compared to a smaller margin of dmg increase from bigger hits.

    I will fire 3 orbs in the same time you will fire 1 (and i will thus do more damage per second than you will too) , and I will still have more arcane power left once this is done, because tap the source drastically reduces arcane power usage AND also.. my source gives my arcane power on critical which is VERY important.. when u crit as much as I do. (35% crit chance).

    I'm not trying to bring you down or anything... just trying to understand people with 2handers :)


    What about trying to read my post which is actually backed up with results of maths and not retarded claims such as "I'll attack 3 times while you attack once"?

    Nobody says you cannot do a comparable build with a 1h+OH setup, it's just much more cost effective to do it with a 2h since comparable 1h+OH combinations are much more expensive.
  • #32
    1H/source vs 2hand -

    If you prefer 1h/source over 2 hand, go for it. I'm sure its great, I'm not going to tell you its bad. But I switched for 2 reasons. First, and probably most importantly for me, I was just bored of using dagger/source after clearing inferno and wanted to try something different.

    Second, because of the nature of how sources work, 1h/source dps will scale much higher with attack speed than a 2 hander will. This is because the source is a flat +dmg modifier and stays the same whether you are using a 1.2 speed mace or a 1.5 speed dagger, and therefore adds much more dmg/dps with the dagger. This makes you kind of reliant on attack speed for high dps, and once you have a ton of attack speed you'll want to use piercing orb over arcane orb and now you're back to the piercing orb/blizz/vhydra build.

    Beyond that, even though you will get equivalent DPS numbers with 1h+source, you will not get equivalent weapon damage numbers and therefore your arcane orbs won't hit as hard. This makes a lot of difference for this build, because the whole premise of the build is to quickly burst down stuff with very large hits. This does deplete your arcane power, obviously, but you wait for it to regen and then do it again. If thats not your style and you would rather always have arcane power and always be casting something, you are probably better off with 1h+source and piercing orb/blizz/vhydra. That build is great and will stay great, this is just something different.


    1H+Source can work with the Arcane Orb/Hydra strategy, but it requires even more gear. You NEED a Helmet with +Arcane Power on Crit (at least 9-10) and an Offhand with +Arcane Power on Crit. To get a good item that has those stats, you'd probably pay twice as much as you would have to otherwise. Additionally, to make 1H+Source truly amazing, you will want a +Arcane Power on Crit 1H Wand as well, and that will cost you millions to get one around 900-1000 DPS with that stat.

    If I had infinite money, I'd definitely try an "Infinite Obliteration Orb" spam build where you could shoot out Obliteration Orbs like a machine gun. You can get up to +30 Arcane Power on Crit if you get all three of those slots perfect. With ~40% Crit, you should be able to maintain infinite spam on 2 mobs. Anything more than 2 is just icing on the cake.

    I'm not trying to bring you down or anything... just trying to understand people with 2handers :)

    My wizard has about 160 hours played and I've made probably around ~8 millionish. To get the level of gear you'd need to viably sustain infinite orb spam while still maintaining the All Resist required for Act 4 Oppressors/Diablo, you would probably need about 15 Million. This is why people use 2-handers for Arcane Orb/Hydra.

    You mention that making money is easy, and while it can be (lots of luck involved), I'd wager a significant majority of your money was made pre-nerf to most of the farming locations.
  • #33
    Tap the source is very strong also and quite possibly better than obliteration orb. They are both completely viable though.

    MasterFischer - I've never said this is the best build ever or that other builds aren't viable or that they aren't as good. This is just a build that I'm using that can tell you works completely fine for farming siegebreaker/azmo/ponies, and I thought other people might be interested in seeing it. If you like your build better, that's great, do your thing. This one does work though, and 2h are definitely a viable alternative to 1h+source for people who don't want to go that route for whatever reason, whether that's lack of money or just boredom with it.
  • #34
    http://imgur.com/6nRFK

    said the other day I'd post a pic of the crits, here is one with my new weapon. 346k
  • #35
    I've been playing with this build lately and I really like it. Whimsy seemed much easier to me after going with this and I'm running act 3 now more comfortably then before. Right now I still don't have the gear to truly get the most from the orb crit build, but when I finally get there it'll be sweet.

    I picked up a 1200'ish 2H the other day for cheap to play around with the 2H play and it worked fine. Right now my 1H combo gives me more Dmg and the source an additional 8.5 crit chance, so until I find a top end 2H and get the appropriate gear, I'm using the 1H combo with tap the source instead. I like the idea of building AP on crit, so I might try to put gear together for that and stick with a combo over a 1H but we'll see.

    In any event, I'm glad I came across this thread, appreciate you Morphos for posting and taking the screens, and this has been a lot of fun. Piercing Orbs and Blizzard was really getting boring for me and I never liked the animation of orbs.
  • #36
    Thanks for sharing your build with us. I've started using a similar build exlusively now, coming from a blizzard/hydra build.

    I bought a pretty good 2h to try with this but I ended up putting it back on the AH. Since I don't have quite the damage to 1-shot stuff I find it way easier to play with a faster 1h weapon. It just takes way too long to cast with a 1s 2hander, I get hit a lot while kiting.

    I'm also becoming a fan of tap the source over obliteration for my case. I have minimal ias and okayish crit/crit-damage with a touch of AP on crit. I'm spamming orbs like mad and not having much low AP issues, I hope to get more AP on crit items as well though, so I can spam even more, good offhands are so expensive.

    Regarding Hydras - I've come to prefer Arcane Hydra for mob clearing. It seems to have more up-front damage which makes more sense if the mobs are dying quicky and it adds the slowing effect. I find that most mobs just don't spend enough time in the venom pools for venom hydra to be better. Bosses on the other hand sit around enough for Venom to be worth it, I did end up switching back to Venom for my first Azmodan kill tonight.

    Above all, the arcane orb build has been a refreshing and fun change from blizzard/hydra. It's nice doing direct damage blasts again! I hope this was coherent.. it's late here, I was up late trying to complete some progress before the nerf.
  • #37
    I was exited reading about this until i started checking AH prices.... 40m for the neck you use ...

    Even gear way lesser would cost me atleast 20m to gear up for this meaning i just can't afford that so there is no point of starting.
  • #38

    40m for the neck you use ...


    40M for a neck with 158 Int, 33% Crit Damage and 5,5% Crit? I'm rich since my neck is 172 Int, 10% Life point, 55% Crit Damage, 6% Crit and 24% magic find.

    Btw i'm very happy that i switched all haste gear to crit gear, i'm doing very well on act 3, need to try pony level
  • #39
    Everyone that rushed to 60 abused all the glitches are rich and getting more rich. I had a later start and it's impossible to make a decent income.

    To progress i need the gear, but the gear is not dropping obvious so i have to go the AH where the prices are retarded

    wondering what patch 1.03 brings loot wise
  • #40
    Prices on crit gear have gone up over the last week or so, probably due to people learning about the IAS nerf. When I bought that amulet a little over a week ago it was only like 2-3mil gold. Prices on the gold AH are also sort of inflated right now I think, probably due to a lot of items being listed on the RMAH. Hopefully all of that will settle down after the patch and the gear will become more attainable.

    I'm happy that people are enjoying the build. As far as tap the source vs obliteration, I think tap the source is clearly better if you are using a 1h+orb and even with a 2h it might be better. With the 2 hand it also lets you drop astral presence, which is nice.

    One thing I have been trying lately is replacing hydra altogether with archon. I find for regular white mobs I don't need hydra, arcane orb gets the job done by itself just fine. So on champ packs/bosses would I rather have hydra or archon? Archon can be hard to pull off because you are very vulnerable while in it, but if you are able to get into a good position and pop it and unload you can basically just melt a champ pack in a few seconds. It also trivializes certain boss fights, like Cydaea/Azmodan. So its kind of a gamble but when it works, it works great. When I run the archon build I also switch my teleport rune to fracture, so that I'll teleport to get the mimics right before popping archon, which makes it a little safer. So the archon build looks like this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#cmjOQS!YbU!YcaYYZ

    Not sure whether evocation or critical mass is better for the 3rd passive.
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