My main profession in Sanctuary is a wizard, but I've always looked at witch doctors as a possible alternative (of course also because it makes it possible to share some of the equip among both characters). I'm mainly playing with two demon hunters, and even though on high MPs it's a brilliant combination with me running around as CMWW wizard, it's sometimes boring and I can't seem to find a spec that's both viable and enjoyable for me. So I took my witch doctor, tried out some things, read a couple of guides, tested several specs, skills, and gear combinations. My goal is to have a support character with decent DPS for our group, and we play mostly mid to low MPs.
It somehow works. Maybe some explanations for my choice of spells:
Spirit Vessel is a passive that I won't give up. Like, ever. I just love this spell; I often play D3 after work with my brain turned off, and this is perfect because it allows me to make stupid mistakes.
Pierce the Veil is just the equivalent of Glass Canon on my wizard, but I'd be willing to swap this if there's a compelling argument.
Vision Quest is just because my Zuni offhand, Zuni chest, and Zuni helm (which are all in my chest) cost me so much DPS compared to my Serpent, Tal chest, and Mempo, but I need something to refill my mana, right?
I was looking for two damaging spells - one low-mana spell (equivalent to a signature spell on my wizard) and one mana spender (don't want to waste any resources!). I went with raining toads and acid cloud because I liked their spell mechanics the most; I've read that Zombie Bears is by far the highest DPS spell and blablabla, but to be honest, these Bears are so stupid. If I'm standing in front of elites and they move an inch to left or right my Bears were oftentimes charging into the empty space, so I got rid of them. Of course I have to click at the right spot with toads+acid as well, but I felt that these spells are somehow more "direct, responsive". Well, subjective feelings kicking in here, obviously. => Are these two spells crap or could that work? How much damage % am I giving up by neglecting Bears? Any spells that offer nice AoE/PBAoE that I should definitely try?
My friends hated Horrify, so I'm not gonna use that spell. (I disliked it, too - the fear is just so annoying; it's also the reason why I stashed my quite decent Echoing Fury).
It seems to me that LoH is more useful than LS? I have a 2.9% LS weapon and I felt that my current life regeneration capabilities (LoH amulet, LaK weapon) work much better ( even despite 170k unbuffed DPS). That seems to be strange?
I kind of like to summon things, the Gargantuam is a viable tank and the Dogs do their service, too. I tried Sacrifice one though and I didn't like it; it's just too stressful for me to always make sure to have the 3 dogs alive when elite packs need to be nuked or have the cooldown ready before sacrificing them. So... no stuff where I have to calculate things on a "what to do in the next 30 seconds" todo list or pay attention to 10 cooldown timers and possibly upcoming enemies.
Urgh. "Sorry for the long text, but I didn't have time to write a short one". Any help, input, and so one welcome. Also, I've read a lot of guides (Projax's one of course, but also official EU and US forums), but if you want to point me to some reading resources that I clearly overlooked, feel free to do so. I haven't read the whole Internet (yet).
I merely have a couple of suggestions/clarifications perhaps to explain a couple things, and my take on WD.
1- Pierce the Veil, although analogous to Glass Cannon, is, in my opinion, a wasted passive. If your combined killing speed amongst yourself and your friends is fairly high, Gruesome Feast may be a better option. PtV is always a 20% increase, but 5 stacks of Gruesome feast would increase your intellect by 50% for the duration of the buff, which generally works out to a larger DPS increase. It also increases mana, which may improve your mana management.
2- Bears tend to behave really oddly, they will hit any sort of small texture and get diverted, it takes a while to get solidly comfortable with them, IMO. They do have your best DPS output by a fair margin, so it might be worthwhile to play with it a but until you get used to the quirky nature of the spell. From my experience, the higher your damage gets, the more damage you will be losing by neglecting zombie bears.
3- With toads and acid cloud, LoH is going to work better, the spells have components that hit for small amounts very quickly, and both have fairly high proc coefficients, so you'll get a lot more health return with LoH with those particular spells. If you were to run with bears, their coefficient is so low that you would have a hard time with life returns for
LoH.
4- While you lose a chunk of paper DPS not using a mempo and tal's chest, I'd be willing to wager you aren't losing much in the way of effective DPS. Here's something to consider: IAS increases your mana usage, without greatly increasing your damage output... Most builds for WD favor slow weapons and CC/CD. You might be better served to go for int, CD and CC.
5- If you like summonables (as every WD should!!) something that may appeal to you is zombie dogs with life link. You don't need to use sacrifice, and they would give you 10% more damage reduction... Which could make you more tanky.
6- To address above points, another passive to consider could be Grave Injustice. It'll return mana an health to you for each monster that dies inside your pickup radius... And will also take 1 second off your cooldowns per monster... Which is amazing.
Your build is a little different than I've seen before (which isn't a bad thing). Some skills I chose to mention, simply because I enjoy them and feel I couldn't live without them.
N.B.- I can provide posts and links to resources when I get to a computer, I hate doing them from my phone.
Wow, thank you so much Mannequin! That's a lot of input and very helpful!
I had Gruesome Feast for a while (with a different gear set with +49 pickup radius) but threw it away since I've got 0 now. However, I forgot that we're three people so I guess we'll pick up most health globes. I doubt that Grave Injustice makes sense though? I could get a bit more pickup radius for sacrificing some DPS - can you give an estimate on how much pickup GI needs, in your opinion? I see you have 12 currently on your gear, is that really enough?
Good point about the IAS! I haven't thought about that (and it's mainly my wizard gear where high IAS is necessary for many specs). Will look for a better Zuni then, it may serve my wizard as well at some point. Are there WDs with APS of 1-1.2? Is there a low boundary or is it just "the lower the better"? Another thing I've noticed is that you don't have an offhand, which lets you lose a lot of stats, most and foremost a lot of crit. I have a Skorn somewhere in my stash, too, but neglected it quickly... is it really worth it? Well, I'll certainly give it a try - the 5.5% LS make the Dogs' LS useless and I can try Life Link as well. Plus, I like to be "tanky".
Maybe with lower APS the Bears will appeal to me again. I'll give them another chance to prove their worth to me.
aye, WDs and wizards are different, where wizzies are looking to be able to attack quickly, WDs benefit from attacking slowly, as we have less mana regen. though, and i'm experimenting with my WD, IAS isn't completely terrible if managed properly. Bears are the way to go for multiplayer. i understand it's difficult to use most of the time... but once you get used to it, you'll be the dominant damage in the group ;D so long as you can plant your back to a wall, or a corner... personally i run about 18 pick up radius, and this seems sufficient... but i also play balls to the wall, and am in the front lines with monks. this is good for the fact that i get the mana and life for kills around me, and puts me practically right next to health globes anyway... at that rate, gruesome feast becomes extremely powerful, and gives me a healthy boost to damage, which in turn creates a faster run, because i just spam 500-800k crits solo, and 600-1m with a monk. also, zuni 4 piece is amazing, it gives you mana per kill, and 20 regen (which is pretty spicy) feel free to take a gander at my WD... my build works very well in group and solo play. when i do lower solo MP runs, i swap out sacrifice for horrify - stalker, and bears for acid cloud - acid rain, and just run house
Wow, thank you so much Mannequin! That's a lot of input and very helpful!
I had Gruesome Feast for a while (with a different gear set with +49 pickup radius) but threw it away since I've got 0 now. However, I forgot that we're three people so I guess we'll pick up most health globes. I doubt that Grave Injustice makes sense though? I could get a bit more pickup radius for sacrificing some DPS - can you give an estimate on how much pickup GI needs, in your opinion? I see you have 12 currently on your gear, is that really enough?
Good point about the IAS! I haven't thought about that (and it's mainly my wizard gear where high IAS is necessary for many specs). Will look for a better Zuni then, it may serve my wizard as well at some point. Are there WDs with APS of 1-1.2? Is there a low boundary or is it just "the lower the better"? Another thing I've noticed is that you don't have an offhand, which lets you lose a lot of stats, most and foremost a lot of crit. I have a Skorn somewhere in my stash, too, but neglected it quickly... is it really worth it? Well, I'll certainly give it a try - the 5.5% LS make the Dogs' LS useless and I can try Life Link as well. Plus, I like to be "tanky".
Maybe with lower APS the Bears will appeal to me again. I'll give them another chance to prove their worth to me.
There are WDs with low aps... 1.0 with a skorn and no IAS, or 1h spear users with 1.2. The general rule I prescribe to is to pick up IAS to the point where your mana regen is something you're comfortable with, and you don't find yourself oom a lot. I used to run a tal's chest, but it made my mana management a bit too tight for my liking. I'd like to switch to a spear and mojo setup, but I still need to save up for it, as finding a black weapon setup that won't decrease my DPS is expensive.
I have 12 radius on gear plus the static 3 radius, so I have 15 yards total. I find that to be very user friendly with bears, as it is essentially a melee build. I rarely miss getting the bonus from Grave Injustice, and generally find my cooldowns mostly reset after clearing a pack.
The life return from my 4.4 life steal is actually higher than necessary, as I am critting my bears for 1.6m on average, and each bear is enough to full heal me. I suspect that 3% would be ample, assuming that damage output would be similar.
Solo, I can easily do mp10, but generally run mp7-8, as that is the sweet spot where I 1shot trash, and elites don't take a disastrously long time to kill, I'd imagine if you were running 5-6 with a couple solid friends that you would have no problem being that solid tank/distraction to let them do mysterious DH things
Thank you for your awesome tips. I swapped to my abandoned gear (Skorn, 4 pieces Zuni) and the skills you recommended and it's actually now exactly what I'm looking for. I don't have to pay attention to timers, no trouble with mana (well, most of the time) and it's a lot of fun. I may even be able to make piece with the Bears ;-)
My DPS dropped significantly, but I still feel that my EHP is too low (Spirit Vessel triggering quite often). I should probably get some more armor and vit because right now allres is kind of maxed out ;-) I'll probably swap out my toads as well to get the Widowmakers just like you, to get rid of the occasional mana issues. That and some gear upgrades once I have money (or luck at crafting) and I should be fine.
@Ashy_Larry: I couldn't believe the numbers, but it's really insane. With my 1.28 APS right now and even the low DPS I still see up to 1mil crits some times. Huuuge numbers, goblins instakills on low MPs. Yay!
My main profession in Sanctuary is a wizard, but I've always looked at witch doctors as a possible alternative (of course also because it makes it possible to share some of the equip among both characters). I'm mainly playing with two demon hunters, and even though on high MPs it's a brilliant combination with me running around as CMWW wizard, it's sometimes boring and I can't seem to find a spec that's both viable and enjoyable for me. So I took my witch doctor, tried out some things, read a couple of guides, tested several specs, skills, and gear combinations. My goal is to have a support character with decent DPS for our group, and we play mostly mid to low MPs.
I ended up with the following char/gear/spec right now: http://d3up.com/b/350650
It somehow works. Maybe some explanations for my choice of spells:
1- Pierce the Veil, although analogous to Glass Cannon, is, in my opinion, a wasted passive. If your combined killing speed amongst yourself and your friends is fairly high, Gruesome Feast may be a better option. PtV is always a 20% increase, but 5 stacks of Gruesome feast would increase your intellect by 50% for the duration of the buff, which generally works out to a larger DPS increase. It also increases mana, which may improve your mana management.
2- Bears tend to behave really oddly, they will hit any sort of small texture and get diverted, it takes a while to get solidly comfortable with them, IMO. They do have your best DPS output by a fair margin, so it might be worthwhile to play with it a but until you get used to the quirky nature of the spell. From my experience, the higher your damage gets, the more damage you will be losing by neglecting zombie bears.
3- With toads and acid cloud, LoH is going to work better, the spells have components that hit for small amounts very quickly, and both have fairly high proc coefficients, so you'll get a lot more health return with LoH with those particular spells. If you were to run with bears, their coefficient is so low that you would have a hard time with life returns for
LoH.
4- While you lose a chunk of paper DPS not using a mempo and tal's chest, I'd be willing to wager you aren't losing much in the way of effective DPS. Here's something to consider: IAS increases your mana usage, without greatly increasing your damage output... Most builds for WD favor slow weapons and CC/CD. You might be better served to go for int, CD and CC.
5- If you like summonables (as every WD should!!) something that may appeal to you is zombie dogs with life link. You don't need to use sacrifice, and they would give you 10% more damage reduction... Which could make you more tanky.
6- To address above points, another passive to consider could be Grave Injustice. It'll return mana an health to you for each monster that dies inside your pickup radius... And will also take 1 second off your cooldowns per monster... Which is amazing.
Your build is a little different than I've seen before (which isn't a bad thing). Some skills I chose to mention, simply because I enjoy them and feel I couldn't live without them.
N.B.- I can provide posts and links to resources when I get to a computer, I hate doing them from my phone.
Edit: my profile links
My WD's D3 profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Mannequin-1116/hero/14628018
DiabloProgress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/mannequin-1116/Stitches/14628018
DiabloProgress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/mannequin-1116/Stitches/14628018
I had Gruesome Feast for a while (with a different gear set with +49 pickup radius) but threw it away since I've got 0 now. However, I forgot that we're three people so I guess we'll pick up most health globes. I doubt that Grave Injustice makes sense though? I could get a bit more pickup radius for sacrificing some DPS - can you give an estimate on how much pickup GI needs, in your opinion? I see you have 12 currently on your gear, is that really enough?
Good point about the IAS! I haven't thought about that (and it's mainly my wizard gear where high IAS is necessary for many specs). Will look for a better Zuni then, it may serve my wizard as well at some point. Are there WDs with APS of 1-1.2? Is there a low boundary or is it just "the lower the better"? Another thing I've noticed is that you don't have an offhand, which lets you lose a lot of stats, most and foremost a lot of crit. I have a Skorn somewhere in my stash, too, but neglected it quickly... is it really worth it? Well, I'll certainly give it a try - the 5.5% LS make the Dogs' LS useless and I can try Life Link as well. Plus, I like to be "tanky".
Maybe with lower APS the Bears will appeal to me again. I'll give them another chance to prove their worth to me.
There are WDs with low aps... 1.0 with a skorn and no IAS, or 1h spear users with 1.2. The general rule I prescribe to is to pick up IAS to the point where your mana regen is something you're comfortable with, and you don't find yourself oom a lot. I used to run a tal's chest, but it made my mana management a bit too tight for my liking. I'd like to switch to a spear and mojo setup, but I still need to save up for it, as finding a black weapon setup that won't decrease my DPS is expensive.
I have 12 radius on gear plus the static 3 radius, so I have 15 yards total. I find that to be very user friendly with bears, as it is essentially a melee build. I rarely miss getting the bonus from Grave Injustice, and generally find my cooldowns mostly reset after clearing a pack.
The life return from my 4.4 life steal is actually higher than necessary, as I am critting my bears for 1.6m on average, and each bear is enough to full heal me. I suspect that 3% would be ample, assuming that damage output would be similar.
Solo, I can easily do mp10, but generally run mp7-8, as that is the sweet spot where I 1shot trash, and elites don't take a disastrously long time to kill, I'd imagine if you were running 5-6 with a couple solid friends that you would have no problem being that solid tank/distraction to let them do mysterious DH things
DiabloProgress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/mannequin-1116/Stitches/14628018
My DPS dropped significantly, but I still feel that my EHP is too low (Spirit Vessel triggering quite often). I should probably get some more armor and vit because right now allres is kind of maxed out ;-) I'll probably swap out my toads as well to get the Widowmakers just like you, to get rid of the occasional mana issues. That and some gear upgrades once I have money (or luck at crafting) and I should be fine.
@Ashy_Larry: I couldn't believe the numbers, but it's really insane. With my 1.28 APS right now and even the low DPS I still see up to 1mil crits some times. Huuuge numbers, goblins instakills on low MPs. Yay!