[complete guide] by Projax 1.0.5 WD

  • #161
    Quote from MrBiggz

    Quote from KyKaH

    Ok, noobs, I took a little time and did two runs, on mp0 and mp5. Same dps, same move speed, same gear. The same run took me 12 mins on mp5 and 9 minutes on mp0. I've got me 31 yellow items and 1 legendary item on mp5 , 15 yellow items on mp0. I guess you can argue all day long wich is better mp0 or mp5, and do your math. Unfortunately I forgot to take notice on exp, but you math heads can estimate the difference between 9 and 12 minutes for same number of mobs killed taking in account additional xp bonus. I'm done here, wise guys. Probably could do next run to count xp, but I feel like I should not cast pearls before swine.

    Maka, you're just not in my weight category, sorry.

    So you get a 50% bonus for doing MP5 over MP0. Assuming you have no leorics signet and no hellfire ring, you are already getting 175% experience with 5 stacks on MP0. Therefore, you are getting a total of 225% experience with 5 stacks on MP5. 225%/175% = 28.5% more experience but 33% more time to do each run. If you have a hellfire and/or leorics, the gap between increase in time vs. increase in exp only gets larger. For items MP5 is better but not for exp.

    Yes, you probably right about exp, I previosly mentioned that exp is probably about the same, and that I farm for loot not for exp ,but my main point was about items that got me a "lier" mark here. Thank you for constructive post. Also I do have hellfire ring on enchantress. With no stacks the 167/107 = 64% more exp. And so on. So as I'm getting stacks this ratio getting lower, but it's still counts towards equation and can compensate those 33-28.5=4.5% difference you are talking about. Also I get 60% bonus on mp5, not 50%. Unfortunatelly I'm unaware how the "killed with one blow" and "massacre" bonuses are calculated.
  • #162
    FFS, let's not do another 3 pages of this.
  • #163
    Quote from Huminator

    Let me know when you tried it out Morkai. Id like to know the result of it.

    ha sooo.... the verdict... well two things to note right now... my mana burn came from ptv as i have stuck to that most of the time using firebomb - ghost rune, which in fact actually does more initial damage per impact... how ever I have started to appreciate the ability to "drop" acid cloud on the ground and jsut keep moving. Normaly i would 1 shot 90% of the mobs i meet but at times i might not get that crit off or smoething is shielded and this is where acid cloud shines with the pools on the ground... I have switched out my mojo for thing of the deep to bring me up to 44 p/u and i can notice the difference. one other thing i was supprosed at was the circle of life... it kinda counters ptv as dogs are always up and 15% buff is always up... I did like both but with this build you just cant escape the 30% more mana per cast unless you have a really decent mana pool. Even then its still less efficient as less casts over time... so for farming purposes I guess this build is actually pretty solid..

    my old build I was running average 60mil / hr on mp1 and now with this build i hit 68mil per hour. I guess the thing is here I can say the consistency does fall towards the second build.. the thing that kills my first build is mana management.. even tho i was runing over 450k dps at full buffs I was forced to use a zero mana skill to studder cast. Did the job but the other option is def smoother. I guess this also backs up the whole argumetn that all are having...

    In my full dps gear I sit at 235k unbuffed no follower i can run higher mps easy so I guess for now i'll put that gear a side and finish my para levls off then put the other back on as I wont need the leoric.

    in the para build, I drop to 153k unbuffed.. =(

    but this is why I love wd's because that on the surface looks like nothing but 5 stacks of feast and provoke the pack up 97% of the time makes us crazy...

    Reference. 1 leoric, 1 radiant star ruby, 2 hell fire

    So I aim to pick up another leoric and I should def be over 70mil per hour nice job guys... Just wish I could compensate the mana loss then I could run the higher mp in my current gear buffed like crazy...

    What would be nice is if bliz put in a "chance on hit to drop health globes per mp level" to allow the build to work on higher mps...

    For arguments sake KyKah on my run mp1,

    I found 2 sets 1 legend.

    short term higher mp's reward more chance at better loot. The simple truth is if you put two same level chars together and said we will come back in a week and see who has famred more loot, legends etc the char worked on para would. Qaunity not quality.
  • #164
    higher mps should be more rewarding in terms of yellow loot. but not legendary
  • #165
    Quote from Projaxs

    higher mps should be more rewarding in terms of yellow loot. but not legendary

    No, it's more rewarding for legendaries as well. I believe you can figure it out

    Moraki, getting better rewards in short term means you improve your char faster, getting better gear and improving your defence and dps quicker. At mp0-mp1 there's no reason to improve dps and defence cause you're already oneshot mobs and can't get killed, you just can't do it faster than you do it already. That could happen on mp5 as well, so you can move on mp6 than. Staying all the time on the same mp level is just unreasonable to some extent. For example it takes me exactly same time doing mp3 and mp0, which level should I run?
  • #166
    nice wd guide mannnn u rock
  • #167
    Well actualy for legendaries its more efficient to run mp0-mp1 because you are killing alot more mobs and rares per minute - so it will overscale the magic find bonus alot !
  • #168
    Quote from KyKaH

    Quote from Projaxs

    higher mps should be more rewarding in terms of yellow loot. but not legendary

    No, it's more rewarding for legendaries as well. I believe you can figure it out

    Moraki, getting better rewards in short term means you improve your char faster, getting better gear and improving your defence and dps quicker. At mp0-mp1 there's no reason to improve dps and defence cause you're already oneshot mobs and can't get killed, you just can't do it faster than you do it already. That could happen on mp5 as well, so you can move on mp6 than. Staying all the time on the same mp level is just unreasonable to some extent. For example it takes me exactly same time doing mp3 and mp0, which level should I run?

    i agree with you to an extent and thus I strive to raise my dps becuase efficiency is gear dependant. Mp 5 if your gear allows you to bring champs down in under 3 secs is def more efficient than downing a champ in under 3sec on mp 0 due to the bonus mf. However I highly doubt your 1 shotting champs or even taking them down in under 3 secs, which is the very max a champ stays up...
    The other thing to remember... the higher your paragon level the more efficient the lower mp's become due to riased mf... I'm not disregarding higher mp's... you say "for example it takes me exactly same time doing mp3 and mp0, which level should I run?" I want to see a video of you taking on champs in mp 3 and 0. The major difference and I can say this because even in my full dps gear it is a lot faster on mp 0 than mp3 so its not the same speed. Mp0 will be faster unless your dps is above 300k un buffed. Which I am yet to see so thorw your tag down and let me see your char.

    I question you this which is faster to kill 3 mobs with 1.5mil helath each or 3 mobs with 8mil health each... hmmmm tough one.. Ihighly doubt your doing 24mil damage in a few seconds and if you are please post a video of you downing Azmo on mp10 in under 40seconds because there has yet to be a WD to step up to that all other classes have done it no one has represented the wd community yet.

    I dnt think mp 0 is worth the time and peeps should be on mp1 as the difference between mp 1 and 0 is not much at all in terms of damage output needed. But you gain mf and gf bonuses straight up and 10% more xp..

    Blizzard has stated there is no difference to the "quality" of rolls on higher mp's as they dont want players to be forced to player higher. there is bonuses to the chance of items dropping but its so simple man. =(
  • #169
    Moraki, you get more loot per mob on higher mp and more MF, I did not say anything MP item quality, but MF still works the way it does. The farm speed not only depends on sheet dps, but also on your build, your defense and farming route. You have to optimize your farming to be effective, just get your own best way based on your setup. Projax has his own way, which is nice, but I don't like the idea to stay on the same mp level in terms of developing your character. He, however, stated that it's for starters and rerollers and it's quite usefull. However he delivering some wrong messages here, which I wanted to point out, but got some strange reactions from "know it all" people.
  • #170
    Quote from Morkai

    Quote from fizzleboltz

    Hello Witch Doctors,

    I just rolled one budget WD and found the acid rain spec to be fun. But I wonder for my gear status would it be better with 2h or 1h+mojo?
    From what I concluded maybe try get a skorn is the better budget version. Alot of talk about 1h vs 2h and I can see both side of the coin, but is it just me or isn't it more cheap to get a budget 2h build with some Pickup in other slots.

    Here is my profile for reference:

    I am not very good geared so please dont laugh, I just hate AH browsing and rather get a decent setup and just go kill stuff.

    I'd like to add that farming higher MP's is of no concern for me atm, I just want to pump up my paragon level so I can get a decent amount of MF.
    Also my budget is around 10mill, preferbly less! I'm the kinda guy that see's something on the AH and thinks:
    - Should I?
    - Nah.. it's too risky
    - Or is it? Maybe it can be flipped for great profit
    - Naaah I dont wanna lose
    - Heck ill buy it!
    - Darn someone bought it and flipped for 5mill profit...

    Fizz I just bought one off ah for 15mil with very decent stats to test but i'm usin my 1h setup as its pretty high end.. i'm on us server if you like i'll sell u it for 10mil send an add request

    Hello Mr Morkai,

    I do appreciate the offer but I am playing on the EU server. Anyways ill try to snipe a decent 2h, try work my way up to "one-shotting" and after that just farm alot! I have limited playtime now that christmas is coming up etc so I really wanna get my "paragoning" up to speed.

    Anyways I enjoyed reading the whole thread, have fun ingame guys and may Mbwiru Eikura curse all the tornadofarting highlanders...
  • #171
    KyKaH is lost in space. His mind is shut off. His head is stuck. You cannot reason with a person like that. Let him have his wrong oppinion. Basicly just ignore the nonesence he spit out in this thread. Facts are sadly, that his inexperienced and blind to basic math and logic. Alot of diablo players, sadly tends to be like this, but then again its their loss. I'm not losing any sleep over it.
    Currently played toon: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rage-2973/hero/8990624
    Profit: Flipping/Sniping: 6577€
  • #172
    Quote from Huminator

    Why do you pay so much attention to me? You advice to ignore me but you fail to do it yourself. And you talk about logic? Don't embarass yourself. You fail to made a single constructive reply, only emotions. Chill out. Take it easy. Am I your "imaginary demon lord"? I suggest you focus on diablo, you have not done with him yet :facepalmsmile: And the thing you call math I call arithmetics. You entertained me much with your immaturity, but I will ignore you from now on. Let's see if you can do the same and follow your own advice :kiss: .
  • #173
    Ok, since you won't go away, the reason you personally find it better is because:

    a ) you don't track things
    b ) you understand how to stack MF about as well as you understand how to stack crit so the MF bonus from MP is actually more meaningful to you from a percentage improvement basis since you start out with so much less to begin with

    As a for instance with max MF, I did a MP0 run last night and found 48 yellows and 1 legendary in a single 11 minute run. Now I personally know using a sample size of one as statistically significant enough to draw conclusions from is extremely silly but, since you seem to find it sufficient:

    My run took 11 minutes. With my run, I'm on pace to find 223 yellow items per hour and 5.45 legendaries while with your clearly better MP5 item find method with 31 yellow, 1 legendary 12 minute run, your on pace to find 155 yellow and 5 legendaries per hour. Gosh, as a sweeping generalization from this run, I am over 40% more effective than you.

    I am clearly not in your weight class either, but I've seen your weight class and, frankly, I don't want to be in it

    EDITED: because while it cracked me up in the morning, it doesn't encourage the best sort of forum decorum.

    I'm going to work -- have a fun three pages of this crap. It'll be entertaining to read when I get back I'm sure.
  • #174
    lol face book profile for sure...
  • #175
    I'm glad you can get more yellows in 11 minutes of your run with MAX MF than me with my char, and you have around same sheet dps stacking crit while I have no crit at all on this build, I guess it's the main point of your post. But if you could kill same amount at the same time in mp5 with same MF you would get more yellow and leg loot, but you fail to understand it. You're too concentrated on trolling, you fail even understand what I'm saying, you did not even notice that I took my runs with same MF on mp0 and mp5 to compare loot, let alone MF contrubution, you did not notice it took me 9 and 12 minutes. Did you take mp5 run to compare your efficiency? Ok, you can't do mp5 as fast if at all, maybe mp2? I bet you don't even try to understand my posts looking for something you can troll on. Nice picture of yours, btw, you should change your display monitor, it impaired your reading. Why do you even need to farm for para xp if you're already farm with max MF at MP0?))You fail in your trolling as bad Huminartor, but he's more funny with his 53y pickup radius. I thought you are just a diablo noob, but seems like you basically have attention disorder and bad communication skills. Ignore you too, until you come up with something more constructive.

    P.S. "I am over 40% more effective than you" - that's what I like about you guys, lol. Keep it coming. I see 3 more pages of your personal forum space, Emberos. You better ignore me as well, you just loosing every single round of this.
  • #176
    Quote from KyKaH

    Maka, you're just not in my weight category, sorry.

    Oh, it's an e-peen thing. Now I get it.

    Have fun stroking it. I'm going back to work.
  • #177
    Quote from maka

    Now I get it.

    no you don't, but nevermind. Sorry if I offended you, just adapted to this forum's ways of communication. Don't take it personal.
  • #178
    I am not trying to personally attack you here KyKaH, so please give me the same courtesy. I am merely responding to your opinion that Projaxs was wrong in saying farming at lower MPs is the most efficient way to farm exp and items.
    I run at MP1 and I have never had under a full stash of yellows after my 9 minute run. I say I average over 30 rares every 9 minutes and a legendary every 2-3 runs so lets say every 20 minutes. On top of this I average around 65mill/hour which is not perfect but decent.
    Now, again I'm not attacking you here but with your spec and gear along with the MP you chose to run at, you simply can't compete with these numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that you believe that to be the most efficient you need to have the best gear in terms of ehp and dps, and then go to the highest MP in which that gear allows. This is a great idea for farming hellfire rings and for pwning nubs when pvp finally comes out, but it falls short in regards to items/exp.
    To get the most exp and loot/hour you need max movement speed, max mf, max exp bonus, and a build that maxs speed. Obviously, if you put on this gear your ehp and dps will decrease and you won't be able to farm higher MPs anymore. This is why I farm MP1. It is the highest MP I can go in that allows me to kill the fastest in this kind of gear.
    I'm not hating on you, I'm happy for you that you can farm MP5 relatively efficiently. I am not telling you what to do, and I am not saying you should AH your gear. As I said it has it's place.
    I am merely stating that Projaxs was correct in his video in that farming lower MPs is the best for loot/exp.
    Now if you wish to prove me wrong please give me some meaningful numbers that shows your way is better. This means do 10 runs at MP5 and calculate you exp/hour as well as your loot/hour. This means that you do your own arithmetic for once instead of telling others to do it for you. If you simply can't bother to do this, thats fine but I would appreciate that you don't respond with insults as I have provided you with none.
    Thank you.
  • #179
    You took a mp5 spec and gear setup into mp0 and expected it to be as effective. That is silly. One of the benefits of doing mp0 is you can stack max MF and XP gear without fear of reprisal. You are losing out on that benefit as well as the benefit of an appropriate mp0 spec and thus you fail to reap the rewards. You assume when we and many others tested higher MP farming like MP5, we would take our exact same gear and spec forward into those. That would also be silly and is not something I would do. In fact, I already showed video of me killing mp5 elite packs as quickly as you are. I'm sure you noticed my spec was different (not that I would use that particular spec - was just doing it your way for giggles). I wonder if you noticed my helm was different in that video and thought to yourself I may have switched out other pieces that weren't cosmetically visible as well -- I couldn't possibly have a different gear setup that would work better in higher MPs could I?

    The fact that you don't understand CC and CD are overpowered almost to the point of being broken in D3 and you have nothing but the base 5% crit in your setup is comical. We already talked about how your failure to realize this also caused other temporary in-game buffs to scale poorly and, in fact, my damage with these buffs outscales you even more so than it already does without them. While Intel and All Resist are very good stats, you have also stacked one of them at the expense of other stats that would boost you more and the other beyond the point you need to for MP5 farming. 900+ all resists is beyond overkill.

    Finally, I'll remove the picture from last post because it was childish and immature (I hadn't had my morning coffee and yet and was cranky :dead:) -- but good god you are still missing the boat here.
  • #180
    Well, let alone my profile, I want to say that my main point was to stay away from generalizations, like lower mp is better for farming loot and xp, attack speed is paper dps and so on. I said Projax is a nice spec if you look at my post. Maybe I've made a mistake than I told that you could use this spec on mp5 with the same efficiencency, that I admit, although not the same gear, but it is still not applies to many other setups that used out there. I never said my approach was better or worse, my char is stronger, or more effective than any of yours (I even did not show it before Projax demanded it), I said those generalization does not apply to all setups and made an example out of mine cause it's the only one I have. Going back to my profile, if you like Emberos, I don't "fail to understand" the crit thing. I don't feel I have to apologize for it, cause it has it's purpose - it's actually a tank setup, that works on any difficulty and anything this game has to offer. It built to handle anything up to mp10 ubers solo with a considerably small budget. I like to stack crit and I was doing it for some time having 185k dps unbuffed, but I've decided to take another approach and try to get tanky char that can do a lot of damage as well. If I use crit items with tank stats the price of the setup would skyrocket, I don't spend that much time farming. I know some of WD's who are 90 and upper paragon with high dps and using different specs, as Zero-dogs, Bears, even Locust+Bats setups farming high mp levels quite nicely, who found low mp ineffective for them, but they spend a lot of time farming and some of them are using RMAH, I don't have those options. I'm quite happy with my WD as he does what I want him to do, he made some charts, and he is probably one the highest dps char who does not use crit damage items at all. My approach to the game - if the game has no purpose, you have to invent it yourself (Hey, Maka). This char is in high demand on MP6-MP8 group uber runs, it can even work as a frezze wiz if people ask for it. I was not promoting MY way to you, was not saying my char is way to go. Don't know where did you get this idea. Again my point was that generalizations about how you have to do things could be misleading and you have to avoid them. But very soon it got out hand, so I started to play your game guys, you gave me some fun moments in your comments. You don't know even who I'm and what I do but apparently you told me a lot of things about myself I did not know, I really enjoyed your posts here cause it's game on it's own )) Cheers

    P.S. I lied, my char is better than any of yours :Thumbs Up: Just to keep this going, we still have two pages to go
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