Any WD's still running Splinters?

  • #41
    Quote from Findulidas

    Quote from proletaria

    It's just a matter of putting in the time and effort.


    Its also a matter of getting enough money to being able to discount the repair bills while doing it.


    Depends on the build, really. Playing surgically with splinters and always leaving spirit vessel and spirit walk available should reduce the number of unavoidable deaths to a minimum. I agree, it would be quite easy to go broke trying to use a VQ bats/bears build for undergeared progression.

    Update: Made it a few quests into Act2 running a heavy cc splinters variant, but I do have to skip most jail/wall affix combos which makes things pretty slow. Here is the build:

    http://us.battle.net...XUkR!WVX!aaYcZa

    I found soul harvest too dangerous to use offensively, thus I dropped it for horrify for additional escape mechanisms.
  • #42
    Quote from proletaria

    Depends on the build, really. Playing surgically with splinters and always leaving spirit vessel and spirit walk available should reduce the number of unavoidable deaths to a minimum.


    If you are too careful though the killing speed is much slower which means loss of time as well.
  • #43
    Quote from Findulidas

    Quote from proletaria

    Depends on the build, really. Playing surgically with splinters and always leaving spirit vessel and spirit walk available should reduce the number of unavoidable deaths to a minimum.


    If you are too careful though the killing speed is much slower which means loss of time as well.


    Well that much is obvious. I don't think anyone can claim a bargin WD build is efficient at running inferno or that the class is in a good place per overall balance, but given time you can whittle through it.

    Having said all that, I put in two evenings and barely made it a few quests into act2 and my will to press on in like fashion is fairly low.
  • #44

    Having said all that, I put in two evenings and barely made it a few quests into act2 and my will to press on in like fashion is fairly low.


    Act 2 sucks until, mmm, the oasis, I guess? Once you get there, it's all downhill. ZK's dungeons are a piece of cake - no surprise attacks and no creatures with odd abilities (like disappearing). That's, easily, the best farming area in Act 2, even if the rares are few and far between. Even that area outside ZK's zone isn't too bad, really. Only elites to worry about are lacuna and imps (who pop out of the ground). And ZK is really a gimme boss. He's so easy.

    And the lacuna, at their core, are just a melee class. So your Fetish Army can tank them easily while you kill them. Don't even need to move very much.

    Belial is what gave me problems. I have 24k health going into that fight. And, on occasion, I'd get killed by his breath attack, while other times it'd only knock me to 1/2 health. It was weird. So I stuck in a life gem on my helmet and then it was "easy". I spent maybe 2 hours on that fight one morning and finally downed it. Once you get the pattern down, it's not a bad fight - just the places where are safe to stand can be so small, that dying can be easy.
  • #45
    After the IAS nerf, i just got bored with splinters, not doing enough damage + it's pain in the ass to play splinters only, meaning no AOE dmg.
    Bears or dire bats sounds fun (I did run bears act2 dough) but they require a lot of good gear (crit chance / crit damage / mana regen)

    I didn't have the will to change again, I tried but its just not worth of my time (200hrs played wd)

    So what did I do? Switched to DH, i have shittier gear than WD(where every new piece of gear is just too expensive , 1h weapon in particular) and i kill stuff faster, I can even easily kill the soul lashers now. Only negative point on DH is the reflective dmg, while on my WD it was no problem.
  • #46
    Quote from lorien1973


    Having said all that, I put in two evenings and barely made it a few quests into act2 and my will to press on in like fashion is fairly low.


    Act 2 sucks until, mmm, the oasis, I guess? Once you get there, it's all downhill. ZK's dungeons are a piece of cake - no surprise attacks and no creatures with odd abilities (like disappearing). That's, easily, the best farming area in Act 2, even if the rares are few and far between. Even that area outside ZK's zone isn't too bad, really. Only elites to worry about are lacuna and imps (who pop out of the ground). And ZK is really a gimme boss. He's so easy.

    And the lacuna, at their core, are just a melee class. So your Fetish Army can tank them easily while you kill them. Don't even need to move very much.

    Belial is what gave me problems. I have 24k health going into that fight. And, on occasion, I'd get killed by his breath attack, while other times it'd only knock me to 1/2 health. It was weird. So I stuck in a life gem on my helmet and then it was "easy". I spent maybe 2 hours on that fight one morning and finally downed it. Once you get the pattern down, it's not a bad fight - just the places where are safe to stand can be so small, that dying can be easy.


    I can see where just getting beyond the imperial snakes and lacuni spam would be a huge load off. I got most of the way there, but not quite. I have a feeling bosses won't be much of a problem with my spec.

    Quote from bokkkie

    After the IAS nerf, i just got bored with splinters, not doing enough damage + it's pain in the ass to play splinters only, meaning no AOE dmg.
    Bears or dire bats sounds fun (I did run bears act2 dough) but they require a lot of good gear (crit chance / crit damage / mana regen)

    I didn't have the will to change again, I tried but its just not worth of my time (200hrs played wd)

    So what did I do? Switched to DH, i have shittier gear than WD(where every new piece of gear is just too expensive , 1h weapon in particular) and i kill stuff faster, I can even easily kill the soul lashers now. Only negative point on DH is the reflective dmg, while on my WD it was no problem.


    Yeah, I don't want to rush to any praise of my barb just yet since he isn't 60, but the skills (particularly passives) are just so much better.
  • #47
    Quote from proletaria

    Yeah, I don't want to rush to any praise of my barb just yet since he isn't 60, but the skills (particularly passives) are just so much better.


    Maining Barb myself but often play GF's WD or 2-man with her. Only thing i can say about WD is class being extremly limited in choices compared to barb that have few builds providing very different gameplay - tornado build, tank build, throw weapon build and seismic slam builds are all extremly viable, require different gear to play.

    On the other hand as WD you're either stuck with VQ 2 min cd builds or splinters (that bored many since lvl 6 i think). Compared to barb amount of useless runes/skills in WD skillset are extreme. Somehow WD became stuck in Wiz/DH role, and at least not me nor my gf like it.
  • #48
    Quote from proletaria

    Having said all that, I put in two evenings and barely made it a few quests into act2 and my will to press on in like fashion is fairly low.


    Well, if you get better gear and learn the monsters even better then you will beat act2 even though atm it might feel like its never going to happen. Thats what happened to me anyway.
  • #49
    Quote from Nyaldee

    On the other hand as WD you're either stuck with VQ 2 min cd builds or splinters (that bored many since lvl 6 i think). Compared to barb amount of useless runes/skills in WD skillset are extreme. Somehow WD became stuck in Wiz/DH role, and at least not me nor my gf like it.


    My exact observations in mirror, though I think there are a couple more viable options: they require gear that 99.5% of the WD population cannot afford.

    Quote from Findulidas

    Well, if you get better gear and learn the monsters even better then you will beat act2 even though atm it might feel like its never going to happen. Thats what happened to me anyway.


    At this point I'm still convinced I could do it without gear upgrades, but as I said it's just very very tedious and my alts feel more meaningful at this point.
  • #50
    I have not played Act 2 since the damage nerfs but I would advise anyone having trouble to just bare down and complete the quests asap while avoiding rares (unless you can easily kill them of course). Before the nerfs, I found Act 3 much easier than Act 2 and it has better loot so..... there's no point in taking your time with Act 2. It's best to just get it over with due to the annoying mobs that go invis and teleport in Act 2.
  • #51
    Quote from Ruppgu

    I tried going back to a direbat vision quest build over lunch today. 20,000 gold later I'm back to darts... it was far too easy to die with cooldowns not always ready. I don't see myself straying from darts unless things change... it's just a lot safer than most builds out there.


    I find myself trying different builds and always end up going back to darts, funny :D. Rainman tank build is fun to try but need some serious gear to get it high dps.
  • #52
    Yeah, I don't see how you can run a WD without using darts. I've tried a few builds that didn't use it. They just don't pan out well; especially against elites and bosses - where it matters most.
  • #53
    Quote from proletaria

    To be perfectly honest, I think the minimum gear issue to complete inferno is blown way out of proportion.

    Even though act2 is tough as hell, I bet that I could still poke my way in and likely get close to an enrage timer on zoltan or azmodan. Considering i'm still wearing stuff valued at less than 20k gold sum-total, I think it's fair to say putting 500k in should make a slow and tedious inferno clear possible. It's just a matter of putting in the time and effort.

    I haven't had adequate time to test this theory, but I plan to put my repair bill where my mouth is this weekend. :D I'll probably faux-blog about the experience in my GD thread.


    You need around 25k DPS in order to kill beliel before the enrage. Tough it's not a big value, you problebly will need more then 500k , unless you're pretty lucky and drop your own ias rings.
    "In time the hissing of her sanity
    Faded out her voice and soiled her name
    And like marked pages in a diary
    Everything seemed clean that is unstained
    The incoherent talk of ordinary days
    Why would we really need to live?
    Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
    What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
  • #54
    Quote from lorien1973

    Yeah, I don't see how you can run a WD without using darts. I've tried a few builds that didn't use it. They just don't pan out well; especially against elites and bosses - where it matters most.


    Spec some people should try: *(I use a logitech G5 mouse so some ablitites will be attached to extra mouse buttons)

    1. Left Click- Firebomb (roll the bones rune). This is your main attack. Deals a high ammount of aoe damamge with the ability to crit to all targets within 8 yards, bouncing twice more in the same direction dealing equal damamge. Imo this is great for all trash you have to deal with durring the later acts.

    2. Right Click- Grasp of the dead (eels rune). The slow from this is pinnacle to kiting which, imo should be the main playstyle of the class. The other side to this is the increased damage. Any ability you choose should in some way always be dealing damage to your enemys. Until you get more used to the class you may want to use the rune to increase to 80% slow, but it will take longer to kill enemys.

    3. Mouse button 4- "SPIRIT WALK"- (honored guest rune). This abliity should be used strategicly to move yourself in and out of dealing damage and in and out of danger. The rune will get you back the necessary mana to maintain a consistant flow of offense. Almost a necessary skill for any wd in my opinion.

    4. Mouse button 5-
    Two choices here depending on playstyle: (both work great in group or solo situations)
    a. Hex (jinx rune). Great cc for kiting and killing on the run (which you'll be doing a lot). Jinx gives you an increase of 20% damage to the hex'd target making it great for elite packs and not so much for bosses. Still very effective but not useable in all situations.
    b. Mass Confussion- (paranoia). This is what I currently use. Although the cd is a minute long, it lines up perfectly for use on elite packs and bosses. The 20% increased damage to all enemy affected in abilities area creates great synergy to this builds aoe strengths.

    5. "D" keyboard button- Locust Swarm (Searing Locust Rune)- Awesome progressive aoe. With a bit of luck this ability will tear through any trash mob or elite. Works as a great "set it and forget it talent". Run in and blow this on the first enemy you see and watch the show. I've seen up to 50k ticks from this as it shreds the masses.

    6. "A" keyboard button- Big Bad VooDoo (Slam Dance Rune)- Can you say bloodlust. 20% increased attackspeed and 30% increased damage with the attached rune. Nuff said on this ability :).

    7. "W" keyboard button- bound to the move ability in keybinds. How many of us have tried to move out of a corner or away from a group with out left mouse click and just kept attacking. The keybind will eliminate the chance of this happening. Very important skill.

    To give you guys and example of an opener with this spec it would go something like this:
    1. Run in locust swarm and grasp of the dead
    2. Spirit walk if you have to while using Mass confussion
    3. Move back and start your firebomb.
    4 If you've found a good ammount dps time, drop that VooDoo totem.
    5. Use grasp to kite while reapplying swarm when it falls off.

    *Saving your spirit walk for those pesky jailer, vortex and waller ablities will also help.

    Passives:

    1. Pierce the Veil: Although this makes for more mana, I believe the damage is necessary. Spirit walk will help with balance.
    2. Spirit Vessel: Required IMO. Play like a tiger when this abliity has not been activated and like a kitten when it is. Those of you who run this will know what I mean.
    3. Spiritual Attunement: More mana ftw!!!!

    Finese and strong aoe synergy is the key to playing this build which is what I believe to be the most fun part about it as well as all abilities are useable on a boss fight excluding Hex of course. Hope this helps a few people. I'll have a video up soon for a visual reference. Peace.
  • #55
    Quote from lorien1973

    Yeah, I don't see how you can run a WD without using darts. I've tried a few builds that didn't use it. They just don't pan out well; especially against elites and bosses - where it matters most.


    Dire Bats works just fine, it's probably the best WD build. Bears work as well, as everyone knows. Beyond that, the builds start to get worse.

    Splinters is the generic WD build, but if you can get defensive stats or mana regen then Bears / Bats is better.

    Bats is the cheapest because you don't stack IAS and don't need much defense, which is required for a Splinters or Bears build respectively. I can see why people would stick with darts though because Vision Quest can be an annoying mechanic. Dart builds are more relaxed than Bats / Bears. But the lack of AoE can be pretty terrible, and without mana regen there's no way you can fit in another damage spell that's not a Primary... so you can only get Firebomb really. I'd rather go with Grasping Spirit or another CC ability personally.

    Overall, WDs have too few viable skills... it's ridiculous. If I had to pick our 4th best damaging ability though, I'd go with Rain of Toads. There are viable builds out there using RoT no doubt.

    Anyone who is sick of the typical Bats/Bears/Darts builds should try out Rain of Toads.
  • #56
    Quote from sacridoc

    Overall, WDs have too few viable skills... it's ridiculous. If I had to pick our 4th best damaging ability though, I'd go with Rain of Toads.


    I would probably go with acid cloud blob.
  • #57
    Quote from sacridoc

    Dart builds are more relaxed than Bats / Bears. But the lack of AoE can be pretty terrible, and without mana regen there's no way you can fit in another damage spell that's not a Primary... so you can only get Firebomb really.

    Anyone who is sick of the typical Bats/Bears/Darts builds should try out Rain of Toads.


    I'm using darts with Rain of Toads for AoE
  • #58
    5 CD direbats - allows SW to be off CD, and when it is on CD, allows you to use a different cooldown defensively.

    SW/Confuse/Hex/Wall/Dire/Grasp.

    all of your spells are both offensive and defensive - you shouldnt be dieing to any mob that isnt ranged, and even then, with skill, you shouldn't be dying period.

    Quote from Ruppgu

    I tried going back to a direbat vision quest build over lunch today. 20,000 gold later I'm back to darts... it was far too easy to die with cooldowns not always ready. I don't see myself straying from darts unless things change... it's just a lot safer than most builds out there.

    Were you using a long CD build? thats the only way I could possibly see this being the case... No direbat build (that I know of) promotes the use of 1 min+ CDs except confuse. You can use virtually all the same CDs you use with darts, except deal more damage, and have it be AoE.


    Also:with a mana regen OH/head, and a helm that reduces FB mana cost, you can actually use PtV with it, without going OOM.
  • #59
    Quote from lorien1973

    Yeah, I don't see how you can run a WD without using darts. I've tried a few builds that didn't use it. They just don't pan out well; especially against elites and bosses - where it matters most.


    Funny, as I don't see how you can run a WD WITH Darts. Bears, Dire Bats, Acid Rain are all better yet some prefer to use a low damage, single target spell. No idea why but hey, if that's the play-style people enjoy then great.
  • #60
    Quote from superfula

    Funny, as I don't see how you can run a WD WITH Darts. Bears, Dire Bats, Acid Rain are all better yet some prefer to use a low damage, single target spell.


    Its very simple when you think about it. While splinters do less damage, its not very much less single target. It also frees one passive and opens up the use of the ccs whenever you want which is nice. You can very easily chain use the ccs with splinters with vq builds you cannot since they are all used the moment you start battle and not when you best need them.
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