Any of you use Life steal? I am considering getting manajumas carving knife, just not sure if its worth it (Its pretty expensive with 90% crit and socket)
It helps a lot with reflects damage and with keeping your health topped off in general. It's worth it.
Do you find it worth it not to have socket and crit dmg on weapon? For me the dmg increase in going those compared to raw dps is huge
It's up to you how much you want to spend. If you want crit + socket + lifesteal + decent DPS... you'll pay over 10x the price to get something with less DPS.
If you plan on using this build though, you need to keep in mind that a bear crit (even with very little to no crit dmg) will kill almost anything. So yeah... your DPS number will increase by a lot but how much of that is overkill? Solely relying on that number can cause problems. It does make elites melt faster though so it depends on your current gear if you're happy with the speed of elite kills. When I'm using my regular gear I have a stone of jordan and elites just melt so I don't care a bit about crit dmg or a socket on my weapon.
If you want to gear for crit/crit damage (and perhaps a bit more pickup radius) you can use Acid Cloud. Of course there are pros and cons to both Zombie Charger and Acid Cloud - I personally don't like to be handicapped by positioning so bears have always been a bit tenuous for me to use. The lower coefficient with Acid Cloud allows that crit & crit damage to be less wasteful on farming runs. Acid Rain gives it a humongous area of effect, although you do partially lose out on the DoT portion. Lob Blob Bomb is spammable if that's your thing.
Between Acid Cloud and Zombie Charger it should be possible to find something that works well for you, I'd think. Zombie Bears is definitely the brute force option and probably works a bit better for farming, I'd imagine. Shame I can't get myself to put that spell on my bars, heh.
There is is very good reason for every skill to be used.
Passives are set, need grave injustice for cooldown resets = must, spirit vessel lowers cd on our 3 skills, another must take for speed farming, and gruesome feast is best mana regen skill in wd arsenal, also gigantic damage boost. With this skill I can't tell the difference if I do A3 run with 800 dps weapon or 1200 dps, it adds so much damage.
You need only 1 attack - zombie bears. Mana is not a problem, you get mana on kill and when picking up health globes. With decent gear elites melt in 2-3 seconds, spawning so many globes, you are at full mana spamming bears. There is no need to use other attack, unless maybe acid cloud 24y for faster aoe kills in some areas of act3, but it makes very little difference. Bears AoE is pretty decent.
Spirit walk with 3s duration = more speed, more movement, more god mode. We dont need mana regen.
Horrify - stalker, 20% speed for 4s. Absolute must for fast wd, can't use armor rune, we lose too much movement. With grave injustice this skill can be literally spammed, same as spirit walk, so it is up much longer than it seems.
Soul harvest - 230% damage rune, with proper gear, it one-shots trash, saves us even more time, no need to cast bears (that are slower). Soul harvest has instant animation. Also resets often, so we get pretty much free bears hit to all within range, cause damage is comparable. can use this skill vs each larger white monster pack, since cooldown is reset quickly. In really large density spots, you can cast it several times in a row, cause it resets its own cooldown.
Mass confusion and voodoo are kind of optional, but I find them much better than minions. We just don't need minions at certain level of gear. Mass confusion with 20% more damage taken rune, allows to immobilize elites for short while, enough to melt them with bears. Running away elites are most annoying, this helps. And 20% damage taken is huge damage increase.
Voodoo with 30% damage rune, also gigantic damage boost, with grave injustice timer resets at about every 2 elitepacks. In more dense areas every elitepack. Mass confusion cooldown resets almost always every single elitepack.
As for gear what helps:
Two items with 12% movement. Tyrael and 12% boots. Lacuni is not that good cause of limited stats (tyrael's might has either 180ish int and 3 sockets or vitality (look for 150+), so vs zunimassa armor you trade only about 150 stats (given 150 int, 150 vit and 3 sockets at same time). Lacuni costs more, it has low or no crit, never all res and both stats. Tyrael is just cheaper and we sacrifice less. Also IAS is not welcome, due to increased mana consumption.
Best weapon is 1h 1.2 attack speed spear or mace. Socket, inteligence, No need loh nor life steal. Something around 1.2k dps with no ias is ideal. It is better than ceremonial knife with max mana and mana regen, because ceremonial knife has 1.4 speed, and ruins the benifits of mana regen, cause we drain mana even faster. Slower weapon without these mods works better.
Offhand, entry level best legendary with 20y pickup, but once we get that affix on other armors, it is good to change it for something better. Preferably 400dmg zunimassa with crit, zombie bears cost reduced and mana regen. Or other legendary.
Same with helm, probably better zunimassa helm but with mana regen instead of 3% crit, also will be 5x cheaper.
Soj is very important, huge boost to elites, 100+ mana, and can have zombie bears cost reduced up to 10.
So with this setup, bears cost reduced by 10-20, mana regen and max mana from helm and offhand, slow 1.2 weapon with no ias on other pirces of gear, and gruesome feast, about 20-30y pickup radius = infinite mana. Having about 70-80k dps unbuffed (with no ias i repeat, so that requires pretty good gear to hit that damage without single item with ias), it is enough to steamroll 3 player co-op game with unlimited mana. 4 player is tricky, requires more damage (about 90-100k unbuffed).
Bears with such setup, if we hit elite (elite bonus), with 5 stack soul harvest, slam dance and mass confusion, and charged gruesome feast crit for over million damage.
As for survival, focus more on health, cause we heal via globes, and they work as well as with low hp, it is irrelevant cause they heal %. For that reason loh (doesn't even work with bears) and life steal is not our priority. Having about 60-70k hp with 600 all resist (unbuffed by feast and soul harest) means you never ever die in a3. Spirit walk comes handy, can use it deliberatly to extend duration of real spirit walk.
Gameplay looks basically - you rush everything melee, cast soul harvest, if that is not enough - bears, spam spirit walk and horrify to move faster. Everything dies instantly, elites melt in seconds.
Reflect can be problematic, need to time spirit walk. But with proper stats (high hp and all res) you shouldn't die instantly, just see hp dropping if all bears hit reflect elitepack. Single reflect target shouldn't be a problem at all, it is only dangerous if we hit multiple reflect targets all at once with big bear burst, without spirit walk active during entire burst. In practice, with all that cooldown resets on spirit walk, you don't even need to pay attention to reflect damage, cause everything just dies, and these little downtimes where we don't have spirit walk up, don't make difference.
Technically weapon with life steal should soften effect of reflect, but it will cost lot more to get a decent weapon with this stat.
Rermember to just move around, stutter step bears vs reflect, so you insta-grab health globes that appear. That provides more than enough healing to survive reflect elites, despite dealing bears crit in range of 500k-1M, having 60-70k hp, about 700 all resist and 3.5k armor.
Thanks for the good advice. The only thing I disagree with is your advice about using Tyrael's might. I think the 4 piece zuni set is HUGE and you need the chest if you're going to use Thing of the Deep. Also, lifesteal is very important for making reflects damage packs easier... sometimes the health globes don't drop at 50% health and that's when you can have trouble (not dying but you'll have to wait for spirit walk to come back). Lifesteal isn't needed (I don't have it on my MF weapon) but it does help out a lot if you have it.
Personally, I run out of mana on extra health massive units (like tremors) so some of your advice is a bit based on your current gear (you seem to have a ton of +mana regen/max mana/zbear reduction pieces).
I'll try the movespeed boost on horrify and see if I really need the armor boost at my gear level. I've had that rune on my mental checklist to try once I start removing some of my MF gear so we'll see how it goes. Mass confusion seems like an interesting skill to have. I may have to try it instead of dogs but I think I might start dying on trash without my dogs... I don't think my gear is at your level yet in terms of survivability.
How do you stand breaking down doors/objects with zbears? It's so slow and cumbersome. Even if I never used darts for damage it still saves a lot of time in the keeps breaking down doors. My keep clears are much slower when I only have zbears on my bar. I don't think BBV really adds much when you're killing elites in 2-3 seconds anyway. Also, there are times where I can't be close enough to use zombie bears due to molten/arcane if it's an enemy that runs away.
You must have some wicked gear for that to actually work out for you. For me, it was an expensive and frustrating experience.
1.) I don't know how you function with only having zbears for an attack. Anything that runs away is an extreme pain (even worse if it's molten). You need a ranged skill.
2.) I couldn't survive without having zdogs out to distract. It wasn't an issue for early Act 3 but the later stuff in Act 3 was killing me (both trash and elites).
3.) I liked having the speed glyph for horrify but it made reflects damage and certain trash packs a huge headache. I must not have the gear yet to pull this off. Possibly once I get rid of my magic find....
4.) I can't stand Mass Confusion. The very first pack I used it against was knockback.... it took 2-3 times longer to kill because the stupid mobs would punt each other to different parts of the map. I know this was an odd situation but I was not a fan. I did not experience a noticeable increase in kill time either so.... not worth it.
Thanks for the input. My gear cannot handle it though or I simply don't like the playstyle. Maybe it will work better for others.
As for zunimassa set. You don't really need full bonus. It is 20 mana regen, but you gonna lose something else, cause helm has no crit nor mana regen, and can have only 1 random mod. Also this set comes with a price, cause getting really decent pieces costs fortune (boots with high vit and all resist, ring with crit chance, chest with decent vitality, it can cost billion gold, literally). By getting just better rares, for fraction of that price you make up for lack of set bonus. If you get cheap weak rolls of set, then it is all not that great, compared to rares.
Tyrael as chest isn't perfect, but imo it is best you can get, unless you get some sickest roll of lacuni prowlers. Still attack speed will hurt your mana consumption.
it is far from optimal, most of items relatively cheap. I mean there not a single sick item worth 100-200m or anything like that (and if you go for set, you have to pay this much).
With these items I can do full act 3 runs very fast, not much slower than well geared barbarian. Overall traveling speed is slower of course, but it kills elites faster.
Good benchmark to compare chars, cause damage is often altered by attack speed. For example with this gear I can one shot most of trash with soul harvest. Full screen of skeletons in keeps level 2? - 1 hit all dead.
You ask how I kill ranged elites that run away. If you go with spirit walk, they don't run cause they don't see you. Mass confusion charms some of them, making them to attack each other. And they melt in literally few seconds. If you have not enough damage, then I can see it being a problem. But spirit walk is huge help, being invisible to monsters = they don't run away.
Most important here is, this gear can be upgraded by a lot, and level of ownage it provides is really surprisng.With this wd I really don't feel inferior to barbs or demon hunters, movement speed is decent (if you kill fast), and damage is actually better, this kills elites faster than dh or barb, so makes up for lacking movement speed.
You say for example demonic tremors, they die to 1 cast of bears. Bears crit for about 400-500k per bear, with soul harvest and some gruesome feast charge. With everything charged to max (gruesome feast + soul harvest + voodoo + mass confusion, bears crit for over 1 million vs elites).
Breaking door indeed is bit annoying, cause bears have little delay. But one cast is still one cast.
I was experimenting with other set (knife + offhand), that grants that poison cloud. This actually breaks door and enviroment objects for free, and set is pretty decent. But again, good rolls of weapon and offhand cost fortune, and are still worse than decent 1h rare weapon.
I wish I had time to record a clip to show how it works. You can do really fast act 3 run with this, rushing through everything, not stopping for longer than few seconds to kill elites.
You can check out this guy
Using somewhat similar build (no speed horrify though, and changes some skills often). But the general idea is there, grave injustice + gruesome feast, only 1 attack = zombie bears. His gear is weird, lots of stats, almost no crit chance, so damage is crippled, but still melts everything ridiculously fast.
I'm running Zombie Bears these days in my Act 3 farming runs, and I'm loving it. Probably not looking back, either. I don't necessarily have the gear to support the build you've suggested here, but my build is similar and I'm loving it! Thanks for the food for thought!
Since I can't post links yet, for those Witch Doctors who want to go Zombie Bears (because it really is the best way to farm efficiently) and cannot afford 4pc Zuni. Replace Gruesome Feast with Circle of Life and Horrify with Sacrifice - Pride rune. With 20+ yards of pick up radius you will have no trouble creating dogs to explode for mana. I've used that spec since 1.04 until I obtained my 4pc Zuni and it was a lot of fun.
edit: I'd also advise to use the Templar as your follower, his heals are always useful considering you will be in the face of mobs most of the time.
It depends what your goal is. Do you want to challenge yourself with higher monster levels or do you just want to farm as quickly and efficiently as possible?
This will still be the best farming spec imo but if you want to turn up the monster level, this spec won't be as good. That said, no matter what spec you're using, if you turn up the monster level you're also losing efficiency. I wouldn't use this spec for the infernal machine either.
first a question about horrify. i love the extra mobility and will try it again today instead of the primary attack, but i hate that when i spam at a wrong time, all monsters run away.. what do you do about that?
now my two cents:
my spinoff of the farming build will help all, but wds without ubergear will enjoy it the most. tell me what do you think.
i needed a damage soaker because my gear does not give me enough res and armor so i had to decide between garg and dogs. garg is slow as hell, but dogs just soak up damage and do nothing. but:
i thought the sacrifice rune was only good with good cooldown reduction, but then i found provoke the pack. BAM. gives you 15-20 percent damage boost for 30 secs. (if you are willing to get zombie handler)
so the main difference is that you run around with dogs soaking up damage as usual, cooldown on them goes down really fast because of grave injustice. once it cools (takes about 20 secs for me) you blow them up, kill everytnig and your damage increases for another 30 secs! synergise this with gruesome feast and soul harvest and you got more than 100 percent extra damage permanently
i tried many alternatives to zombie handler but eventually ended up with that for now - it gives you an extra damage soaker, extra massive explosion and extra 5 percent damage permanently
When I found out how well GF/GI synergized I pretty sniped a totd and this build is what I came up with all the way down to the gear, great to find a similar build online.
I swapped BBV for horrify for the extra dps and attack speed since Im a bit gimped right now due to not wanting to upgrade jewelry til 1.05. (70kdps)
I used the Garg instead of dogs since my build is slightly more focused on burst damage and his restless giant rune really helps with that.
With +24% MS and splinters/bears has been great. Rushing from mob to mob and just blowing cooldowns just doesnt seem to get old to me. Streaming a slow wave of zombie bears which wreck everything has entertained me for 100+ a3 runs haha.
In regards to RD , Ill get close as posssible and spam bears/bbv while in jaunt, while using soul siphon everytime its up , doesnt matter if you get 1 or 5 stacks, need it primarily for the heal and killing some white mobs to reset the CD can be a good idea at times. If they dont die I can always choose to proc Spirit vessel while throwing out more bears and running away at the last second for some space if I need to.
Bump for a great build
Cant link profile so you can search up kittyslayer#1360
Also in preparation of higher mp levels Im lookin to get a Visage while keeping the zuni set bonus by using the set offhand. Goal is for 100mana/sec so that + VQ = 130 m/s. Im hopin the flow of mana gives me a wider array of options to test out high mana requirement builds which effectively boost my dps by not going OOM however the raw damage numbers wouldnt show in the profile.