What build for killing uber bosses?

  • #1
    I kinda dont think my zombie bears will work as I will run out of mana often, so anyone tried PTR and found out what is effective?
  • #2
    Acid cloud lob blob seems to be a popular skill. Its not as quick as bears but less demanding. It could well be the best skill to use as you get into inferno.
  • #3
    I suggest finding one build for one uber boss-combination. After you have killed one uber, you change build to the another one and simply collect 5 stacks before attacking the next one (people usually open 3 portals at the same time in one game).

    But if you want to have one-build fits all, then you will need:
    1) high-ranged skill.
    2) high-damage skill.
    3) Pets.

    High-ranged skill is nearly a must-have against certain ubers. For example Kulle + Siegebreaker is very annoying, because Kulle teleports all over the place and throws the bubble, which decreases your movement speed and attack speed by ~75% or so.
    Simply surviving isn't enough either. You will need a high-damaging skill or otherwise the bosses will enrage. This is why I don't recommend using acid cloud.
    Pets distract the enemies and buys you valuable time. They certainly aren't mandatory, but if you are playing solo, you'll most likely want them.

    Of course it all depends on which Monster Power you are playing at.
  • #4
    Quote from Derwiv33

    You will need a high-damaging skill or otherwise the bosses will enrage. This is why I don't recommend using acid cloud.


    Acid cloud lob blob is actually the most damaging aoe skill per cast though, 115% damage and then +250% on that. After 2.5 secs you got 240% which is more than bears.

    It also gives more damage per mana compared to bears (base: bears (1.70), cloud (2,14)), (of course what items you are using might change that, think theres extra crit on the cloud and lower mana cost for the bears).

    In addition you dont need to stand close to hit with it, which is likely to be a problem on the uber bosses.

    People generally use bears when they get enough dps so that they can kill elites in seconds, in a fight 15secs or more then acid cloud should do more damage. Especially since you can just fire the clouds away and the blobs will follow thier target and you dont need to worry about positioning and protection, which could be a problem depending on your gear.

    Also I havent played the bosses myself but splinters used to be good on single targets, both for thier single target damage, speed and reach. Its probably a good choice to use on those bosses.

    I did experiment with spirit quest and burning spiders though and I must say if you go for that passive then the spiders will keep it up for you all the time, while still doing just a bit less damage than splinters. While its not as effective as gruesome feast on most elites, on bosses it might regen much more mana over time depending on how often the health drops. Its therefore possible that spirit quest might be better on big bosses.
  • #5
    But putting 2 blobs on one target only means one DOT right? Or do they stack
  • #6
    Well maybe 2 players? , 1 tank?
  • #7
    Quote from kebapmanager

    Well maybe 2 players? , 1 tank?


    I will not be doing the fight alone the first month or 2, so always full team
  • #8
    Quote from SkipperMix

    But putting 2 blobs on one target only means one DOT right? Or do they stack


    They stack. Sometimes they also block the pathing of the monsters, although you dont really get to use that very often.
  • #9
    U need a tank man...
  • #10
    Quote from kebapmanager

    U need a tank man...


    As said I dont do this alone, I will have a barb / monk tank
  • #11
    you don't need a tank (that's what your pets are for) and lob blob works very well especially if you have added in LoH gear for these fights (which I would recommend unless you have very high damage output and life leech already). Resists and health pool also become more important because you will be taking damage.

    You will need to focus on proper positioning for Ghom/Rakk. Get in a niche where only Ghom can attack you (well your pets really -- you just take cloud damage -- and Rakk can't charge or melee you). My build with a small change of Acid Rain to Lob Blob rune works very well. I also swap out my current weapon for a 6% life leech 2-hander.
  • #12
    Quote from Findulidas

    Quote from Derwiv33

    You will need a high-damaging skill or otherwise the bosses will enrage. This is why I don't recommend using acid cloud.


    Acid cloud lob blob is actually the most damaging aoe skill per cast though, 115% damage and then +250% on that. After 2.5 secs you got 240% which is more than bears.




    You forget that bears can hit 3 times same target, especially large one such as special boss, or if you stand next to wall and "focus" bears in narrow line. That is 236% damage x 3, per cast = 708% weapon damage. And you don't have to wait x second after cast to deal full damae, it is constant stream of dps.
    It is possible to spam it infinitely, just high mana regen on items, relatively low attack speed, blood ritual + vq. With high attack speed you can add 3rd mana passive, if you really need it.
    Nothing gets close to that amount of spammable damage per second. If demon hunter could spam cluster bomb without any limits, but they can't. I guess barbarian with 4 tornadoes hitting boss at the same time, ticking 10x per second for 20% weapon damage each + damage from whirlwind still wins.. But barb will mostly likely have lower base damage than wd.
  • #13
    Quote from Findulidas

    Quote from Derwiv33

    You will need a high-damaging skill or otherwise the bosses will enrage. This is why I don't recommend using acid cloud.


    Acid cloud lob blob is actually the most damaging aoe skill per cast though, 115% damage and then +250% on that. After 2.5 secs you got 240% which is more than bears.

    It also gives more damage per mana compared to bears (base: bears (1.70), cloud (2,14)), (of course what items you are using might change that, think theres extra crit on the cloud and lower mana cost for the bears).

    In addition you dont need to stand close to hit with it, which is likely to be a problem on the uber bosses.

    People generally use bears when they get enough dps so that they can kill elites in seconds, in a fight 15secs or more then acid cloud should do more damage. Especially since you can just fire the clouds away and the blobs will follow thier target and you dont need to worry about positioning and protection, which could be a problem depending on your gear.

    Also I havent played the bosses myself but splinters used to be good on single targets, both for thier single target damage, speed and reach. Its probably a good choice to use on those bosses.

    I did experiment with spirit quest and burning spiders though and I must say if you go for that passive then the spiders will keep it up for you all the time, while still doing just a bit less damage than splinters. While its not as effective as gruesome feast on most elites, on bosses it might regen much more mana over time depending on how often the health drops. Its therefore possible that spirit quest might be better on big bosses.


    You are overlooking the fact that you can position yourself in a way that all 3 bears hit the target. That's the true strength of zombie bears. It's not a 236% skill, it's a 708% skill if you know how to use it. If you stack enough mana regen + the right passives you can still spam zbears.

    Acid cloud is still good though, especially if you have life on hit.

    //edit:: lol 5 seconds too slow ^^
  • #14
    Quote from aerialus

    Quote from Findulidas

    Quote from Derwiv33

    You will need a high-damaging skill or otherwise the bosses will enrage. This is why I don't recommend using acid cloud.


    Acid cloud lob blob is actually the most damaging aoe skill per cast though, 115% damage and then +250% on that. After 2.5 secs you got 240% which is more than bears.




    You forget that bears can hit 3 times same target, especially large one such as special boss, or if you stand next to wall and "focus" bears in narrow line. That is 236% damage x 3, per cast = 708% weapon damage. And you don't have to wait x second after cast to deal full damae, it is constant stream of dps.
    It is possible to spam it infinitely, just high mana regen on items, relatively low attack speed, blood ritual + vq. With high attack speed you can add 3rd mana passive, if you really need it.
    Nothing gets close to that amount of spammable damage per second. If demon hunter could spam cluster bomb without any limits, but they can't. I guess barbarian with 4 tornadoes hitting boss at the same time, ticking 10x per second for 20% weapon damage each + damage from whirlwind still wins.. But barb will mostly likely have lower base damage than wd.


    That means no Piece of the veil, 20% dmg is a big lose. might go spirit vessel + spirit walk with honored guest, dont like loosing my Pierce of the veil :/

    Might also swap spirit vessel for blood ritual or vision quest as spirit vessel needs kills to be worth anything

    A small gain could be swapping soul harvest for Haunt with Draining spirit,
    edit nevermind this one, 10.2 mana per second is almost useless when the spell cost 9x mana to cast
  • #15
    From what I've seen in some streams, high-end glass cannon WDs aren't having much trouble at all after getting used to the fight, even at MP10.

    For normal players such as myself, I'd reckon I'll need to beef up my survivability first, then dps. Standing at ~48k dps unbuffed with 66 mana/sec, Bears is far and beyond the better skill. Only times I miss Acid Rain is when I need to do insane AoE damage but Bears come out shooting in all directions... Drawback #1: I die more often because of range. #2: Acid Rain is incredible and I want to beef up dps to justify using it again over Bears.

    For those ubers, I though of something like this: just get 4 survivability skills (Dogs, Garg, SW, Hex/Horrify/Wall) and use Lob Blob Bomb+Splinters with PtV, Handler and Fortitude. That gets me firing from behind a line of 8 tanks. Not bursty, but a constant dps. If I manage to keep everything up all the time that's something around 2930% damage per 5 seconds, considering 1.5 attack speed and discounting pets. With pets 100% uptime, Rabid Dogs and Humongoid, that boosts up to ~3420% per 5 seconds.
    I know Bears can do significantly more if you can keep your mana from hitting rock bottom, but as I said before, I'm shooting for survivability first, damage second.

    edit: I think I forgot to add the poison from Rabid dogs, but no biggie, not that big a difference.
  • #16
    With a good ring and neck (Running with MF until patch) I should be back to around 120k dps and 45k hp and 600ish all res so hope thats fine
  • #17
    Actually, the highest AoE skill is sacrifice (3x275% = 825% or 4x275% = 1100%). With Zombie Handler, you are doing ~55% more weapon damage than Zombie Bears (3x236 = 708%). It is also possible to spam the attack permanently.

    It is good to remember that for ubers, you don't really need a high mana regeneration because you won't be able to stay still and spam the attack all the time. You have to evade stuff quite a lot, which is why you could use Pierce the Veil too.

    Acid Cloud - Lob Blob Bomb is so and so. For example a lot of the ubers move around (for example Kulle teleports often and siegebreaker moves a lot if you don't have a tank) so the blobs are unreliable in those fights. Generally speaking, the bosses are very large, so getting 3 bears or dogs to hit isn't a problem, which is why you are always looking at the highest possible damage. Compared to these numbers, acid cloud - lbb is doing around 50% less damage than zombie bears (with higher mana cost).
  • #18
    Quote from Derwiv33

    Actually, the highest AoE skill is sacrifice (3x275% = 825% or 4x275% = 1100%). With Zombie Handler, you are doing ~55% more weapon damage than Zombie Bears (3x236 = 708%). It is also possible to spam the attack permanently.

    It is good to remember that for ubers, you don't really need a high mana regeneration because you won't be able to stay still and spam the attack all the time. You have to evade stuff quite a lot, which is why you could use Pierce the Veil too.

    Acid Cloud - Lob Blob Bomb is so and so. For example a lot of the ubers move around (for example Kulle teleports often and siegebreaker moves a lot if you don't have a tank) so the blobs are unreliable in those fights. Generally speaking, the bosses are very large, so getting 3 bears or dogs to hit isn't a problem, which is why you are always looking at the highest possible damage. Compared to these numbers, acid cloud - lbb is doing around 50% less damage than zombie bears (with higher mana cost).


    While I think sac will be great for ubers you are overstating the damage because it takes 2 casts to do that damage while zombie bears is 1 cast.

    Zbears is more damage but the health return from sac rune + the ability to spam them forever will make it a very good ubers build.
  • #19
    Prob with sacrifice build is, it takes 2 casts to perform it. During the time you summon dogs + sacrifice them you can cast bears twice. So bears still win.
    Also anyone who tested both build with high end gear will confirm that bears are just overall much better.
  • #20
    That is debatable.

    For example the summoning animation is a lot faster than the animation for exploding. Also, the bears are a channeling ability like dire bats and rain of toads for example. This means that there is a delay on the casts and that delay is very noticeable (ever tried to hit a moving target with bears or rain of toads? Yeah... they hardly ever hit the target). The bears also start from behind the caster so even if you are standing right next to the enemy, it will take a while for the bears to reach the target (few exceptions like standing against a wall).
    Sacrifice might be slower, but 2 times slower is probably wrong.

    At the moment the bears are better overall because the enemies have so little HP. When the enemies have more HP, none of the sacrifice's damage will "go to waste" like it does now. You could compare this to a player clearing content faster with Acid Cloud than with Bears.

    EDIT: I decided to test this and look at the frames.
    sacrifice+explosion (4th dog exploded) = 1,12 seconds
    zombie bears (2 bears behind the witch doctor) = 0,86 seconds
    5 casts of sacrifice+explosion (4th dog) = 6,81 seconds
    5 casts of zombie bears (2 bears still behind witch doctor and moving) = 4,00 seconds
    5 casts of sacrifice+explosion (3 dogs) = 6,03 seconds.

    The results depend from where you want to take the times, but in my opinion I was being quite neutral (I figured the 2 other bears will do damage later on even if I already started 2nd cast of bears. Sacrifice does damage when the explosion happens). In my opinion it is safe to say that sacrifice with 3 dogs is ~1,5x slower than bears and with 4 dogs ~it's 1,7x slower. However, the difference between one cast was surprisingly small (the reason is the channeling ability delay, which happens only during the first cast).
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