Spirit barage build.

  • #21
    Quote from Siaynoq

    Or they should have even made it do other things like go through walls and stuff so you could flee around a corner and barrage them for as long as possible until they turned the corner. That'd be awesome.



    This shows just how much you and TheDFO actually know about the skill...
    Spirit Barrage goes through EVERYTHING (walls, corners, stairs, objects, enemies). As long as you have a target, spirit barrage will hit it. This is why the spirit is willing rune is great also, you basically always get the bonus (unless you suck at aiming).

    The damage is higher than splinters and you even gain 3% life steal from it (if you have enough mana regen, you don't need the mana rune). Of course, the life steal isn't something that makes you go "AWESOME", but it's still a nice bonus especially if you have life steal and LoH from gear already.

    The phantasm rune is amazing as well, 45% AoE weapon damage per second for 5 seconds and you can stack the effect upto 3 times (135% AoE weapon damage per second as physical). In 5 seconds, you have done 675% AoE weapon damage. You don't need to build your whole build around this skill, you can easily use it without any passives or gear in any build.

    In my opinion Manitou is great also. You basically get a summon for 20 seconds (that you can instantly recast) that does 28% weapon damage as physical and the enemies cannot kill it. Manitou's attack speed seems to be 2.0 (two attacks per second) and the damage is good. For example, I have roughly 60k DPs, which means manitou has around 17k DPS because it benefits from my critical hit chance and critical hit damage as well (it has a higher attack speed than I have also). The downside is that it has pretty limited range, so you need to be somewhat close to the enemies. Still, the rune is far from useless and it barely costs any mana. Like phantasm, you don't need to build your whole build around this skill, you can easily use it without any passives or gear in any build.

    Well of souls rune is good when you are attacking one enemy that is close to you (Then it's around 280% weapon damage), for example bosses or elites. Otherwise, you'd be better off with phlebotomize/spirit is willing, because the additional spirits have limited range.

    TL;DR: Spirit Barrage is the best single-target skill Witch Doctor has and it doesn't need any boosts (neither does its runes).
  • #22
    Quote from Derwiv33

    The damage is higher than splinters and you even gain 3% life steal from it (if you have enough mana regen, you don't need the mana rune). Of course, the life steal isn't something that makes you go "AWESOME", but it's still a nice bonus especially if you have life steal and LoH from gear already.

    Sure damage is higher than splinters, but not by very much, only 10% more of your dps or 5.5% more than splinters. Considering its massively larger mana cost its damage really isnt that great. 3% lifesteal isnt an awesome rune either, it only makes a diffrence when you hit about 100+kdps for decent healing and have very good resi/armor/health at the same time because otherwise that extra healing wont count for anything since you get almost instantly killed anyway. By then running most builds dps skills are viable.
    Quote from Derwiv33

    The phantasm rune is amazing as well, 45% AoE weapon damage per second for 5 seconds and you can stack the effect upto 3 times (135% AoE weapon damage per second as physical). In 5 seconds, you have done 675% AoE weapon damage. You don't need to build your whole build around this skill, you can easily use it without any passives or gear in any build.

    Thats still not so great though, you need to throw the spell 3 times and have the monster/s standing still inside that effect during the whole duration for it to reach that damage. 3 dire bats deal about that damage instantly, not having those conditions, as does zombie charger. Acid cloud lob blob does about that amount of damage in aoe as well, except half of it is instant and the blob follows a monster around so that more of its damage actually hits. Also last time I used it, it seemed like you could stack a whole lot of blobs at the same time.
    Quote from Derwiv33

    In my opinion Manitou is great also. You basically get a summon for 20 seconds (that you can instantly recast) that does 28% weapon damage as physical and the enemies cannot kill it. Manitou's attack speed seems to be 2.0 (two attacks per second) and the damage is good. For example, I have roughly 60k DPs, which means manitou has around 17k DPS because it benefits from my critical hit chance and critical hit damage as well (it has a higher attack speed than I have also). The downside is that it has pretty limited range, so you need to be somewhat close to the enemies. Still, the rune is far from useless and it barely costs any mana. Like phantasm, you don't need to build your whole build around this skill, you can easily use it without any passives or gear in any build.

    I havent used this one very much, but 2 attacks per second seems like a whole lot. Could be right, but usually spells do the percentage shown per second to not be confusing. It feels to me like it doesnt do much more than groping eels rune on grasp of the dead though, which is a cheap aoe, that slows and has a short cd.
    Quote from Derwiv33

    Well of souls rune is good when you are attacking one enemy that is close to you (Then it's around 280% weapon damage), for example bosses or elites. Otherwise, you'd be better off with phlebotomize/spirit is willing, because the additional spirits have limited range.


    The problem with this spell is that its erratic and like all sb spells its slow to hit the monsters even if they stand in your face which isnt something you want in d3 as ranged. Even so, if you wanted 280% for sure on a single target you could use hungry bats. Its actually less unpredictable (even though hungry bats is pretty unpredictable) and it also seems to hit from a longer distance. If you dont fear having a monster in your face then bears is probably better as well since they do less a bit less than 280 damage but they do it in aoe.
  • #23
    Quote from Siaynoq

    Yeah well being that it's a single target skill, you'd think it would have some of the highest damage of any WD offensive skill. And yeah I remember earlier on trying SB but it was just....underwhelming? Who knows? The OP could be onto something though. Perhaps being the overlooked skill that it is there is something more to it. But I just remember it always being so weak sauce.

    I've tried 3 to 4 times, each time building my build as best as my lvl allowed for it, and I've never been particularly impressed. Maybe I'm missing something though, not sure.

    Quote from Derwiv33

    Quote from Siaynoq

    Or they should have even made it do other things like go through walls and stuff so you could flee around a corner and barrage them for as long as possible until they turned the corner. That'd be awesome.


    This shows just how much you and TheDFO actually know about the skill...
    Spirit Barrage goes through EVERYTHING (walls, corners, stairs, objects, enemies). As long as you have a target, spirit barrage will hit it. This is why the spirit is willing rune is great also, you basically always get the bonus (unless you suck at aiming).

    Yeah. But just about every other mana reduction rune in the game, it doesn't matter if you suck at aiming. And it's instant, AND you get the benifit of being able to cast it with less mana, becuase it's a STRAIGHT REDUCTION. My point was, this skill has a lot of goofy restrictions/cons for something that isn't great.

    The phantasm rune is amazing as well, 45% AoE weapon damage per second for 5 seconds and you can stack the effect upto 3 times (135% AoE weapon damage per second as physical). In 5 seconds, you have done 675% AoE weapon damage. You don't need to build your whole build around this skill, you can easily use it without any passives or gear in any build.

    Or, I could just cast another spell three times, do nearly the same amount of damage, and not have to worry about the enemies moving. It's the same issue I have with Haunt. yeah, 580% sounds awesome, but it takes 12 f'ing seconds to do that damage. If they reduced the cost so it was a back up, it'd be nice, but they don't. For comparison, a monk can stack Sweeping Wind (with Blade Storm) up to 60% dps in three hits. And then maintain said wind as long as he can get one hit per 6 seconds. Yes, higher one time cost, but because monsters come in small packs, the per cast cost vs time is WAY better then either Haunt or SB.

    In my opinion Manitou is great also. You basically get a summon for 20 seconds (that you can instantly recast) that does 28% weapon damage as physical and the enemies cannot kill it. Manitou's attack speed seems to be 2.0 (two attacks per second) and the damage is good. For example, I have roughly 60k DPs, which means manitou has around 17k DPS because it benefits from my critical hit chance and critical hit damage as well (it has a higher attack speed than I have also). The downside is that it has pretty limited range, so you need to be somewhat close to the enemies. Still, the rune is far from useless and it barely costs any mana. Like phantasm, you don't need to build your whole build around this skill, you can easily use it without any passives or gear in any build.

    Eh, the one time I tried it it wasn't great. It still sounds like a secondary skill, like if you went a Splinters build, this might be decent. But again, when compared to something like the monk's bladestorm (which is AoE, not single target attacks), it's just terrible.


    Well of souls rune is good when you are attacking one enemy that is close to you (Then it's around 280% weapon damage), for example bosses or elites. Otherwise, you'd be better off with phlebotomize/spirit is willing, because the additional spirits have limited range.

    Yeah, and has been said, ZB does a base damage that is almost as high, and can go WAY higher. And it's AoE. And, as they have patched it, it no longer wonks out and sometimes misses (which I think SB WoS still does on occasion, not sure). Oh, and other classes single target skills still usually do more damage, have a secondary effect (not including runes), AND don't have to be up close and personal (good way to die unless you just over gear the content, in which case any skill is good).


    TL;DR: Spirit Barrage is the best single-target skill Witch Doctor has and it doesn't need any boosts (neither does its runes).


    It's also his...only? single-target skill, aside from primary skills, which cost 1/10 the mana. Oh, and when you use splinters, do almost as much damage.

    Honestly, it sounds like you just have great gear, in which case it makes a lot of mediocre or bad skills viable. Maybe that's just what this skill is, something that once you have awesome gear, it's not bad. But still not great.
  • #24
    Quote from Findulidas

    Sure damage is higher than splinters, but not by very much, only 10% more of your dps or 5.5% more than splinters. Considering its massively larger mana cost its damage really isnt that great. 3% lifesteal isnt an awesome rune either, it only makes a diffrence when you hit about 100+kdps for decent healing and have very good resi/armor/health at the same time because otherwise that extra healing wont count for anything since you get almost instantly killed anyway. By then running most builds dps skills are viable.


    I have 60k DPS and I do 60-80k on white attacks with it (360-480 life per hit). Critical hits range from 150k to 200k (900-1200 life per hit). But like I said, it's not something that is "awesome", but it's certainly better than what the other spammable skills offer.

    The problem I see here is that you guys are so focused on certain builds that you aren't even considering anything else. For example in group-play there are no problems to get the mobs stay still because the melee-classes are tanking them. You can also use skills such as wall of zombies and unbreakable grasp to get the enemies to stay there for the full duration. You can also combine this skill with the zombie bears or dire bats. Zombie bears/Dire Bats for AoE damage, spirit barrage for more reliable single-target damage. It's not "one or the other", you can have both if you want.

    The way I see it, this skill is almost overpowered considering nothing stops it and you aren't putting yourself in any danger when using it. Almost all of its runes are viable as well (which can't be said for most skills). Obviously you disagree, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the skill. I welcome any boosts it might get someday in the future, but I don't feel like it needs any boosts. :)

    PS: Poison dart, corpse spiders, firebomb, hex and haunt can all be categorized as single-target skills. Though firebomb is more of a hybrid and hex is a CC.
  • #25
    Quote from Derwiv33

    Quote from Findulidas

    Sure damage is higher than splinters, but not by very much, only 10% more of your dps or 5.5% more than splinters. Considering its massively larger mana cost its damage really isnt that great. 3% lifesteal isnt an awesome rune either, it only makes a diffrence when you hit about 100+kdps for decent healing and have very good resi/armor/health at the same time because otherwise that extra healing wont count for anything since you get almost instantly killed anyway. By then running most builds dps skills are viable.


    I have 60k DPS and I do 60-80k on white attacks with it (360-480 life per hit). Critical hits range from 150k to 200k (900-1200 life per hit). But like I said, it's not something that is "awesome", but it's certainly better than what the other spammable skills offer.


    And splinters costs way way less. Basically, this isn't a skill I would call spammable, unless you're building your build around it (like VQ allows spamming of bats or ZB). And like that build, you make sacrifices to make the build viable (VQ is only a passive in my build so I can spam ZB. I only have hex, as opposed to GotD, because it's got a longer cooldown. I might not have fetish army, except it's got that huge cooldown). The difference is, SB doesn't have the awesome damage.

    And against actuall spamable skills - just use splinters and your ENTIRE build can be surviving/damage. You don't have to worry at ALL about mana, where-as you do with a spamming SB build. Also, if you do go splinters, you probably are using PtV, which makes splinters more powerful then SB. Sure, it's slightly harder to hit, but the 1/10 base cost means it's not even close. If SB was between 20 and 50 mana, then you might be right, but it's not.


    The problem I see here is that you guys are so focused on certain builds that you aren't even considering anything else. For example in group-play there are no problems to get the mobs stay still because the melee-classes are tanking them. You can also use skills such as wall of zombies and unbreakable grasp to get the enemies to stay there for the full duration. You can also combine this skill with the zombie bears or dire bats. Zombie bears/Dire Bats for AoE damage, spirit barrage for more reliable single-target damage. It's not "one or the other", you can have both if you want.

    The way I see it, this skill is almost overpowered considering nothing stops it and you aren't putting yourself in any danger when using it. Almost all of its runes are viable as well (which can't be said for most skills). Obviously you disagree, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the skill. I welcome any boosts it might get someday in the future, but I don't feel like it needs any boosts. :)

    PS: Poison dart, corpse spiders, firebomb, hex and haunt can all be categorized as single-target skills. Though firebomb is more of a hybrid and hex is a CC.


    No, I am trying this. I have tried it repeatedly, and I have never gotten it to work well, at least with my gear. I just recently tried using Manitou as an extra damage with ZB. It's nice, except I had to give up splinters for it. I'm not next going to try just going straight SB instead of splinters for those mobs that are hard to hit with ZB (wasps, goblins, mallet demons, etc). But the problem with just replacing splinters with this is that now I no longer have an almost free skill to use when I oom, or to break pots, or to break doors (it would cost me 200 mana to break most doors now). If we had unlimited skills, you'd be right, this would be a great replacement for those frantic moments when you just have to run, or it's a waller, or a wasp. But we have to give up another, more useful skill, to get this one.

    I do agree that the runes would be nice - if the base skill were worth while. If it did 220-250 dps, or cost 50% less mana, or did AoE. But it doesn't do any of those things.

    PS: PD, corpse spiders and haunt are all single target. Firebomb is not. It's default has AoE, and all it's runes give some form of multi target. It is also not particularly useful - it does too low base damage, and it's too slow and can miss fast moving mobs. Also, it doesn't go over wallers for some reason. Don't get me wrong, I love the skill, but it's just not very good. Hex doesn't do any damage by default, and it's got a cooldown. Haunt is a single target. I also find it terrible, as it only does 45% DPS when you break it down. Sure, you can spam it, but then you'd be better off going with an AoE which does MORE than 45% DPS. PD and Corpse Spider also cost way way less mana, and, with the exception of splinters, do a coorespondingly less amount of damage. I'm not really sure what you were getting at. But yes, there are other single target spells in the game. But none of them are good comparisons to show this skill isn't miserably bad.

    Edit: I just saw that an item can get an affix to lower the cost of SB by up to 12% (well, a unique can. I don't know if other items can too). Possibly if you had that, then you could make this sorta work. 12% reduction takes it from 108 to 97.2. 30% return over 10 seconds passive takes it to 75.6 or 68.04, depending on if the 30% counts before or after the first reduction. Then the 44 back on hit rune puts us down between 24.04 to 31.6 mana.

    Maybe actually doable. But a lot of work for something that will still be blown out of the water by a splinters build.

    Edit Edit: changed a not to a next.
  • #26
    Quote from TheDFO

    Edit: I just saw that an item can get an affix to lower the cost of SB by up to 12% (well, a unique can. I don't know if other items can too). Possibly if you had that, then you could make this sorta work. 12% reduction takes it from 108 to 97.2. 30% return over 10 seconds passive takes it to 75.6 or 68.04, depending on if the 30% counts before or after the first reduction. Then the 44 back on hit rune puts us down between 24.04 to 31.6 mana.

    Maybe actually doable. But a lot of work for something that will still be blown out of the water by a splinters build.


    There are several buffs to diffrent skills, I think there can be 4 diffrent on voodoo masks and 4 diffrent on mojos. There is one that increases the dmg by splinters 5-11% and one that decreases the cost of zombie charger. Also zunimassas journey (boots) increase poison damage 5-6% which applies to splinters and bears but not sb.
  • #27
    I am sorry for the lack of updates on my part. I have stopped playing my witch doctor for the time being and i've focused on my demon hunter instead. I had trouble playing with my barbarian buddy as a WD seeing how none of my builds are working past act 2 and so i tried a different damage dealer. I'll get back to this thread with more info after WD has been buffed in some manner and analyse how the build can work more optimally.
    Seeing how blizz is taking steps towards balancing some stuff lately i'm hoping for this change to come realy soon.
    It's a shame i cannot play my favourite class when it's not as effective as the rest.
  • #28
    Quote from TheDFO

    Quote from Derwiv33

    Quote from Findulidas

    Sure damage is higher than splinters, but not by very much, only 10% more of your dps or 5.5% more than splinters. Considering its massively larger mana cost its damage really isnt that great. 3% lifesteal isnt an awesome rune either, it only makes a diffrence when you hit about 100+kdps for decent healing and have very good resi/armor/health at the same time because otherwise that extra healing wont count for anything since you get almost instantly killed anyway. By then running most builds dps skills are viable.


    I have 60k DPS and I do 60-80k on white attacks with it (360-480 life per hit). Critical hits range from 150k to 200k (900-1200 life per hit). But like I said, it's not something that is "awesome", but it's certainly better than what the other spammable skills offer.


    And splinters costs way way less. Basically, this isn't a skill I would call spammable, unless you're building your build around it (like VQ allows spamming of bats or ZB). And like that build, you make sacrifices to make the build viable (VQ is only a passive in my build so I can spam ZB. I only have hex, as opposed to GotD, because it's got a longer cooldown. I might not have fetish army, except it's got that huge cooldown). The difference is, SB doesn't have the awesome damage.

    And against actuall spamable skills - just use splinters and your ENTIRE build can be surviving/damage. You don't have to worry at ALL about mana, where-as you do with a spamming SB build. Also, if you do go splinters, you probably are using PtV, which makes splinters more powerful then SB. Sure, it's slightly harder to hit, but the 1/10 base cost means it's not even close. If SB was between 20 and 50 mana, then you might be right, but it's not.


    The problem I see here is that you guys are so focused on certain builds that you aren't even considering anything else. For example in group-play there are no problems to get the mobs stay still because the melee-classes are tanking them. You can also use skills such as wall of zombies and unbreakable grasp to get the enemies to stay there for the full duration. You can also combine this skill with the zombie bears or dire bats. Zombie bears/Dire Bats for AoE damage, spirit barrage for more reliable single-target damage. It's not "one or the other", you can have both if you want.

    The way I see it, this skill is almost overpowered considering nothing stops it and you aren't putting yourself in any danger when using it. Almost all of its runes are viable as well (which can't be said for most skills). Obviously you disagree, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the skill. I welcome any boosts it might get someday in the future, but I don't feel like it needs any boosts. :)

    PS: Poison dart, corpse spiders, firebomb, hex and haunt can all be categorized as single-target skills. Though firebomb is more of a hybrid and hex is a CC.


    No, I am trying this. I have tried it repeatedly, and I have never gotten it to work well, at least with my gear. I just recently tried using Manitou as an extra damage with ZB. It's nice, except I had to give up splinters for it. I'm not next going to try just going straight SB instead of splinters for those mobs that are hard to hit with ZB (wasps, goblins, mallet demons, etc). But the problem with just replacing splinters with this is that now I no longer have an almost free skill to use when I oom, or to break pots, or to break doors (it would cost me 200 mana to break most doors now). If we had unlimited skills, you'd be right, this would be a great replacement for those frantic moments when you just have to run, or it's a waller, or a wasp. But we have to give up another, more useful skill, to get this one.

    I do agree that the runes would be nice - if the base skill were worth while. If it did 220-250 dps, or cost 50% less mana, or did AoE. But it doesn't do any of those things.

    PS: PD, corpse spiders and haunt are all single target. Firebomb is not. It's default has AoE, and all it's runes give some form of multi target. It is also not particularly useful - it does too low base damage, and it's too slow and can miss fast moving mobs. Also, it doesn't go over wallers for some reason. Don't get me wrong, I love the skill, but it's just not very good. Hex doesn't do any damage by default, and it's got a cooldown. Haunt is a single target. I also find it terrible, as it only does 45% DPS when you break it down. Sure, you can spam it, but then you'd be better off going with an AoE which does MORE than 45% DPS. PD and Corpse Spider also cost way way less mana, and, with the exception of splinters, do a coorespondingly less amount of damage. I'm not really sure what you were getting at. But yes, there are other single target spells in the game. But none of them are good comparisons to show this skill isn't miserably bad.

    Edit: I just saw that an item can get an affix to lower the cost of SB by up to 12% (well, a unique can. I don't know if other items can too). Possibly if you had that, then you could make this sorta work. 12% reduction takes it from 108 to 97.2. 30% return over 10 seconds passive takes it to 75.6 or 68.04, depending on if the 30% counts before or after the first reduction. Then the 44 back on hit rune puts us down between 24.04 to 31.6 mana.

    Maybe actually doable. But a lot of work for something that will still be blown out of the water by a splinters build.

    Edit Edit: changed a not to a next.


    first of all, Spirit Barrage becomes sustainable single target dps if you rune spirit is willing and use the Rush of Essence passive

    People have disregarded Rush of Essence, but in fact it is a passive mainly linked with Spirit Barrage.
    with 1.4 attack speed, you will do 14 attacks of spirit barrage in 10 seconds. and this stacks, that means every second after 10 seconds of continuous attacks will gain you 420 mana per second.
    What you will see is your mana will go to half, and then stay there... then after the kill, it will replenish to full very quickly.

    since using this passive makes it sustainable single target, this out shines splinter vs wallers, cornering places, and enables you to "Pillar" a mob while hitting it through the pillar (increase survivability).

    and regarding "Haunt", it is an extremely strong spell if used along side a spam spell like spirit is willing or darts, as long as the fight is longer than 12 seconds (elites and bosses) think of this "dot" as a damage boost every 12 seconds that hits 500% damage "while doing something else".

    haunt with draining spirit + Rush of Essence makes your well of spirit sustainable vs groups of 3 elites. Every 12 seconds you get a 500%damage hit and you can spam Well of Spirit all you want. (while everything goes through walls and such)

    try Rush of Essence, Spirit Vessel and Blood Ritual as your 3 passives
    now you have sustained damage and all your CD's available (no VQ).
  • #29
    I used to use what the op suggested, but well of souls requires a "ramp up" in damage
    Here's what it's like
    First cast, A main spirit
    Second cast, B main spirit + A1 small spirit
    Third cast, C main spirit + A2 small spirit + B1 small spirit
    Forth cast, D main spirit + A3 + B2 + C1
    And it is after 4 casts that you will have 3 small spirits going out destroying faces
    It will absolutely destroy small groups of elites after 4 casts having 1 big spirit hitting for 190% while other 3 spirits hitting for a total of 90% per cast, but it really only starts to hurt after you ramp up the damage.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#gfUdRj!VfU!acaZab
    This is the build I use now. It is mostly the same as dart bear build with the advantage of dealing against wallers, vortex, invulnerable, mortar mobs, all because SB is a spammable skill that does not get blocked.
    While bear is still superior in aoe situations.
  • #30
    Quote from awang0830

    I used to use what the op suggested, but well of souls requires a "ramp up" in damage
    Here's what it's like
    First cast, A main spirit
    Second cast, B main spirit + A1 small spirit
    Third cast, C main spirit + A2 small spirit + B1 small spirit
    Forth cast, D main spirit + A3 + B2 + C1
    And it is after 4 casts that you will have 3 small spirits going out destroying faces
    It will absolutely destroy small groups of elites after 4 casts having 1 big spirit hitting for 190% while other 3 spirits hitting for a total of 90% per cast, but it really only starts to hurt after you ramp up the damage.

    http://us.battle.net...UdRj!VfU!acaZab
    This is the build I use now. It is mostly the same as dart bear build with the advantage of dealing against wallers, vortex, invulnerable, mortar mobs, all because SB is a spammable skill that does not get blocked.
    While bear is still superior in aoe situations.



    I think the build you linked is not right : you are speaking about Spirit Barrage with Manitou don't you ? You linked The Spirit is Willing...

    But are you sure this stacks ? I tried it and didn't noticed 1 big hit and 3 small ones.
  • #31
    No, manitou sucks, the damage is so small the only thing it might be good for is proccing effects on your nearby enemies.
    Spirit is willing returns 44 mana when it hits something, making it sustainable without needing VQ

    The well of souls initial cast will hit a target, and then three more little spirits will come out to attack nearby targets one after another. (not all at once).

    Using my build, I use VQ and bear for aoe damage, and use spirit is willing for continued single target damage
  • #32
    Yes I'm trying your build atm and pretty fun and effective !
  • #33
    Quote from awang0830

    first of all, Spirit Barrage becomes sustainable single target dps if you rune spirit is willing and use the Rush of Essence passive

    People have disregarded Rush of Essence, but in fact it is a passive mainly linked with Spirit Barrage.
    with 1.4 attack speed, you will do 14 attacks of spirit barrage in 10 seconds. and this stacks, that means every second after 10 seconds of continuous attacks will gain you 420 mana per second.
    What you will see is your mana will go to half, and then stay there... then after the kill, it will replenish to full very quickly.

    since using this passive makes it sustainable single target, this out shines splinter vs wallers, cornering places, and enables you to "Pillar" a mob while hitting it through the pillar (increase survivability).

    and regarding "Haunt", it is an extremely strong spell if used along side a spam spell like spirit is willing or darts, as long as the fight is longer than 12 seconds (elites and bosses) think of this "dot" as a damage boost every 12 seconds that hits 500% damage "while doing something else".

    haunt with draining spirit + Rush of Essence makes your well of spirit sustainable vs groups of 3 elites. Every 12 seconds you get a 500%damage hit and you can spam Well of Spirit all you want. (while everything goes through walls and such)

    try Rush of Essence, Spirit Vessel and Blood Ritual as your 3 passives
    now you have sustained damage and all your CD's available (no VQ).

    Nothing you said is incorrect. I still just don't feel it's worthwhile compared to other skills. In a vacuum, this could be a decent build. Maybe I just don't have the gear to run this. So, I only do ~10k dps (yes, not great damage), and my APS is exactly 1. If I use ZB, I hit for 23.6k per target. As ZB is, perhaps, a bit op'd atm, I can hit an entire cluster of mobs for that. Even more if they're large enough to get hit with more than one bear. With this build, I'd hit for 19k. One monster. That's at least ~20% less damage, possibly up to well over 50% less damage (as most elites are big enough to get hit by at least two bears).

    Yes, I could spam it longer then ZB, but with VQ, I can already pretty much spam ZB. Yes, a higher APS build would do better with SB, but I just can't see it being THAT much better. Especially because it's very rarely single mobs that are problems. It's groups (at least for me).

    And splinters still wins out, IMO. You can replace RoE with w/e you want, or you can use PtV and do more single target damage (216% instead of 190%). Oh yeah, and it still costs just a tad more than half the mana. And if you get any procs (LoH, stun) on hit you get three chances instead of one.

    Yes, you can't shoot over wallers, or around corners. But that's not ever been THAT big an issue for me.

    I think the thing here that I'm saying is that Blizzard did they're job - there are a lot of builds that work if you have good enough gear. I don't, and it's just not optimal compared to what else I can do.


    Quote from awang0830

    No, manitou sucks, the damage is so small the only thing it might be good for is proccing effects on your nearby enemies.


    Agreed. manitou is terrible. I'd like it if we didn't have a skill limit, but we do.
  • #34
    I still use ZB, ZB is bar-non the best damage for AoE
    splinter darts and spirit barrage both have their utilities, the damage is about the same, but with PtV i find my ZB hard to spam with VQ
  • #35
    You can only boost spirit barrages damage with an affix . You can't lower its mana cost.

    You can reduce cooldown on:
    - Wall of Zombies (from 1 to 3)
    - Summon Zombie Dogs (from 1 to 9)

    You can boost damage on:
    - Spirit barrage (from 5% to 12%)
    - Poison dart (from 5% to 14%)
    - Corpse spiders (from 5% to 11%)
    - Locust Swarm (from 5% to 12%)

    You can reduce mana cost on:
    - Firebats (from 2 to 10)
    - Zombie Charger (from 2 to 10)

    You can increase critical hit chance on:
    - Acid Cloud (from 2% to 7%)

    Note: Values taken from Auction House, so they might differ a bit... at least I have a feeling all the damage boosts can go up to 14%-15%. The others seem solid.
  • #36
    Quote from awang0830

    I still use ZB, ZB is bar-non the best damage for AoE
    splinter darts and spirit barrage both have their utilities, the damage is about the same, but with PtV i find my ZB hard to spam with VQ


    True, but my idea was that, to make SB useful, you have to make it a build. And my point was that a build around splinters would still be superior. And using SB as a backup to VQ means you either have to waste a passive on it, or it's not so great.

    Quote from Derwiv33

    You can only boost spirit barrages damage with an affix . You can't lower its mana cost.

    You can reduce cooldown on:
    - Wall of Zombies (from 1 to 3)
    - Summon Zombie Dogs (from 1 to 9)

    You can boost damage on:
    - Spirit barrage (from 5% to 12%)
    - Poison dart (from 5% to 14%)
    - Corpse spiders (from 5% to 11%)
    - Locust Swarm (from 5% to 12%)

    You can reduce mana cost on:
    - Firebats (from 2 to 10)
    - Zombie Charger (from 2 to 10)

    You can increase critical hit chance on:
    - Acid Cloud (from 2% to 7%)

    Note: Values taken from Auction House, so they might differ a bit... at least I have a feeling all the damage boosts can go up to 14%-15%. The others seem solid.


    Hrm, must have misread that. Also, someone needs to tell Blizzard that 5-10% extra damage, or mana reduction by 2-10 on skills just...is...not...exciting. I want +skills on items to be either fun (like that chance to turn into a skeleton with that set in D2), or powerful. Sure, 5-10% increase is inline with a +1 skill from D2, but how often did you get JUST +1?
  • #37
    WD passives are crap anyways lol, neither darts nor spirit barrage is superior to the other.
    SB will always win out vs wallers, Vortex, Mortar, invulnerable minions, that's just the utility, while darts have a longer range.
    Without PtV, dart does less damage. With PtV, all your other skills will cost more.

    If you analyze it, it really is a matter of preference
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