Spirit barage build.

  • #1
    Hey everyone. After looking up some threads i noticed there is no spirit barage build thread or at least no spirit barage build that is being used at the moment.
    Since zombie bears is just too risky to use from up close and certain mobs have high avoidance or do not allow poison darts to hit them properly (wallers/shielded minions) i thought i'd make one. It worked fine on hell for the most part.

    Here's the build:
    http://us.battle.net...Udkj!WUf!ZaZZaa

    -Well of souls is simply the best rune for packs or adds, even though you need to be up close to do so it's better than nothing. The rest are pretty lacking or useless. If you want survivability phlebotomise can be useful although only bosses since single the heal isn't all that great and it's best used on spike damage rather than burst damage.

    -Grasp of the dead is just too good to ignore on most builds. If you find yourself doing well without it take any spell you find useful. Hex is also a good choice here since many packs are simply too fast or too bursty.

    -Spirit walk/soul harvest are simply a must have. I take honored guest due to the fact that you will get oomed if you miss a cooldown, and siphon is better than a healthpot on big packs. The damage increase is incredible as well.

    -Wall of zombies with barricade is one of the best spells a witch doctor can have. If you manage to place it right that is. The damage is good on an aoe basis and barricade means that any larger than normal choke point can instantly become a deathtrap for enemies.

    Lastly you can chose any spell you like, i put mass confusion simply for demonstration purposes. It's a long cooldown but it can work in many occasions. Feel free to replace it with any cooldown you see fit. Here's some input nevertheless:

    -Big bad voodoo is simply too stationary. When kiting or during a boss you won't be able to stay in the area much unless you have a party which again renders it useless when there is a deathzone on the aoe. Rain dance is useless as the spell isn't as mana hungry as it looks and you have enough regen stacked from your passives.

    -Hex is a very good choice, although you'll need to renew the CD pretty often so watch your mana if you are going with it. I usually just sack grasp of the dead if i'm in a party or i can manage on my own.

    -Horrify is also on a short CD but it can be life saving on clutch situations and the extra armor from frightening aspect is realy good too.

    -Gargantuan dies to fast, forget it.

    -Fetish army is a spell that is often overlooked. The AI is a little displeasing as far as i am concerned but it can work as a distraction for you to set up or for the extra damage since they mess up with the enemy AI. Legion of daggers improves the longevity of the spell since the fetishes won't die as fast. Don't choose any other rune as it's just not worth it. The cooldown could be of use but i'd rather have more fetishes out. Head hunters allows for more dps from this ability but still the fetishes die fast and you want them to be a distraction.

    -As for passives i use PTV in conjuction with rush of essence. Spirit walk and soul harvest are going to be spammed during the whole encounter on every cooldown. Horrify and mass confusion also benefit this passive and will also be used on every cooldown, otherwise vision quest won't work with this build.

    -Of course the build has many downsides. It's low on survivability so you'll need a tank in your party or wish your templar doesnt get 2 shot as often. Use your cooldowns well and kite kite kite.

    I'm going to try it out tonight to confirm its usability on inferno.
    Any input on how to improve it would be appreciated.
  • #2
    Tried the build on a buther run with a fellow barb. The damage was realy good, however i was realy fragile and had to time my cooldowns perfectly. I filled the extra slot with horrify for this run and exchanged grasp for hex.. A solo try is now in order, might also try exchanging rush of essence for spirit vessel.
  • #3
    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Here's the build:
    http://us.battle.net...Udkj!WUf!ZaZZaa

    Well of souls is simply the best rune for packs or adds, even though you need to be up close to do so it's better than nothing. The rest are pretty lacking or useless. If you want survivability phlebotomise can be useful although only bosses since single the heal isn't all that great and it's best used on spike damage rather than burst damage.


    I guess the Phantasm Rune does more dmg and it is safer... gotta try anyway...

    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Grasp of the dead is just too good to ignore on most builds. If you find yourself doing well without it take any spell you find useful. Hex is also a good choice here since many packs are simply too fast or too bursty.


    Agreed

    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Spirit walk/soul harvest are simply a must have. I take honored guest due to the fact that you will get oomed if you miss a cooldown, and siphon is better than a healthpot on big packs. The damage increase is incredible as well.


    now that my damage suffered a lot from IAS nerf, I guess it's time to go back to SH and buff up a little

    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Wall of zombies with barricade is one of the best spells a witch doctor can have. If you manage to place it right that is. The damage is good on an aoe basis and barricade means that any larger than normal choke point can instantly become a deathtrap for enemies.


    I'm using unrelenting grip... if it is well positioned, it'll slow them down a lot and the overall damage is higher... I try put it along their path, instead of blocking them putting it across it...
  • #4
    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Big bad voodoo is simply too stationary. When kiting or during a boss you won't be able to stay in the area much unless you have a party which again renders it useless when there is a deathzone on the aoe. Rain dance is useless as the spell isn't as mana hungry as it looks and you have enough regen stacked from your passives.


    Mana rain allowed me to spam bears during Belial 3rd phase fight for its whole duration... it was beautiful
    sadly I don't see much use for it aside that anymore...

    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Hex is a very good choice, although you'll need to renew the CD pretty often so watch your mana if you are going with it. I usually just sack grasp of the dead if i'm in a party or i can manage on my own.


    Hex saved my ass plenty of times when a mob escapes Grasp or the wall... and on some boss fights too!

    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Horrify is also on a short CD but it can be life saving on clutch situations and the extra armor from frightening aspect is realy good too.

    Gargantuan dies to fast, forget it.

    Fetish army is a spell that is often overlooked. The AI is a little displeasing as far as i am concerned but it can work as a distraction for you to set up or for the extra damage since they mess up with the enemy AI. Legion of daggers improves the longevity of the spell since the fetishes won't die as fast. Don't choose any other rune as it's just not worth it. The cooldown could be of use but i'd rather have more fetishes out. Head hunters allows for more dps from this ability but still the fetishes die fast and you want them to be a distraction.


    I'd rather rely on Spirit walk than horrify...
    gargantuan is a joke on inferno and fetish army AI is dumb to say the least...

    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    As for passives i use PTV in conjuction with rush of essence. Spirit walk and soul harvest are going to be spammed during the whole encounter on every cooldown. Horrify and mass confusion also benefit this passive and will also be used on every cooldown, otherwise vision quest won't work with this build.


    PTV and Rush of essence work really well together... if you are going to use a spirit barrage spammable build, RoE is the key!

    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Of course the build has many downsides. It's low on survivability so you'll need a tank in your party or wish your templar doesnt get 2 shot as often. Use your cooldowns well and kite kite kite.

    I'm going to try it out tonight to confirm its usability on inferno.
    Any input on how to improve it would be appreciated.


    After all this seems to be a viable build... I've done a lot of runs with barrage and it is a really nice skill!

    edit:
    Sorry for double posting... wall of texte wouldn't fit in a single one..
  • #5
    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Tried the build on a buther run with a fellow barb. The damage was realy good, however i was realy fragile and had to time my cooldowns perfectly. I filled the extra slot with horrify for this run and exchanged grasp for hex.. A solo try is now in order, might also try exchanging rush of essence for spirit vessel.


    If you have a larger mana pool (about 1.4k) with RoE you can spam this without worrying about mana...
    you can also use "The spirit is willing" rune
  • #6
    The spirit is willing is kind of a waste. You have no other form of Aoe other than grasp or wall.

    Also i tried the build solo on some mobs. It worked great to my surprise even if i forgot to bring my templar with me. Scoot and shoot is very viable with this spell, you can choose your target at any time as long as it's following you meaning you aren't simply smacking anything you can while running for dear life, but rather taking down the most important targets. If you are being chased the other three spirits will deal pretty solid 90% of your damage on random targets.

    If you find yourself dying on bosses or having trouble with survivability you can always sack Rush of essence for spirit vessel. If you're on a boss, chances are that you are moving a lot, letting your mana regen way faster since you're not spending it. However the downside is that you will lose your overall burst.Nevertheless, most bosses will 1 shot you in inferno anyway making this passive your only get out of jail card. Well, that and spirit walk.

    I wouldn't recomment chainging PTV for anything. You might as well go back to splinters if you change that passive.

    The largest downside of this build is that you can't break down the environment as easily. Other than that it's more efficient than zombie bears and way funnier to use than splinters.
  • #7
    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    The spirit is willing is kind of a waste. You have no other form of Aoe other than grasp or wall.


    it is indeed with that build... I was just sugesting something around the Barricade...

    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    Also i tried the build solo on some mobs. It worked great to my surprise even if i forgot to bring my templar with me. Scoot and shoot is very viable with this spell, you can choose your target at any time as long as it's following you meaning you aren't simply smacking anything you can while running for dear life, but rather taking down the most important targets. If you are being chased the other three spirits will deal pretty solid 90% of your damage on random targets.

    If you find yourself dying on bosses or having trouble with survivability you can always sack Rush of essence for spirit vessel. If you're on a boss, chances are that you are moving a lot, letting your mana regen way faster since you're not spending it. However the downside is that you will lose your overall burst. However most bosses will 1 shot you in inferno anyway making this passive your only get out of jail card. Well, that and spirit walk.

    I wouldn't recomment chainging PTV for anything. You might as well go back to splinters if you change that passive.

    The largest downside of this build is that you can't break down the environment as easily. Other than that it's more efficient than zombie bears and way funnier to use than splinters.


    nice to read that... I'm myself going to try that tonight
  • #8
    Quote from Whiteshadow07

    I'm going to try it out tonight to confirm its usability on inferno.
    Any input on how to improve it would be appreciated.


    I'm used to play a spirit build to change my mind from splinter sometimes, and was able to go until diablo on inferno pre 1.03, I had to use it to kill Cydeae post 1.03, because the splinters can't past through the little spiders.
    Anyway it's not so different than a splinter build ... you only need grasp of the dead and some splinters, it can do as well with spirit barrage if not sometimes better :) and you still have hex and spirit walk at hand. Blasting through walls of wallers or any walls, kiting around structures to avoid vortex or kiting fast affixes and shooting through those structures.
    And with well of souls it can burst for 280% wp if the target is close. It's not the best build or the best spell in the game but it can be fun. :)
  • #9
    I've used a SB build and it feels good man...
    you can focus your fire on where it really matters...
    killing immune packs without running or worrying is really nice!

    the dps is not so bursty as a Dire Bats build, build it has its good points too!
  • #10
    I felt that the small extra damage was lost because you had to micromanage cds like you have to do with vq builds.

    Also since you had to use the ccs at the start there often there actually was more running around than I had with a splinters build, because there were times where I hadnt killed the monsters and the ccs wore off. Which meant there was less time per hard elite/boss actually dpsing for me.

    It did give one benefit of being easier on some invulnerable minion elites, however since many of them were not dpsed down (for me) when the ccs wore off some of them were also much harder since I had to evade the monsters and thier attacks.

    Splinters also have the added benefit of being able to the stuff outside the screen. This I actually use pretty often on bosses or when I have to kite. And if you dont use VQ you can use another passive which actually pretty significant at times (especially after patch when you no longer get oneshotted which means jungle fortitude is good and bad medicine is nice in groups).

    So I think splinters still is better.
  • #11
    It just seems like this build would be improved in just about everyway if you replaced SB with splinters or direbats. Would it?

    I mean, unless dire bats does that bug where it misses, then it will do more direct damage, and cause it passes through everything, more aoe then well of souls. I guess with RoE it ends up being a bit cheaper, but not enough that you can get away from the VQ build...

    Am I just missing something? I really want SB to be an assume skill, but I just can't see the value of it. Maybe if it wer 50 base mana, or did 300% base damage (which wouldn't be that insane, given it's a single target skill).
  • #12
    I have to agree with TheDFO... we need a really specific build just to use it freely and the final outcome ends up being "okay"
    I also hope the SB base damage gets higher
  • #13
    The missing cooldowns realy seem to hurt at times. This build seemed to work fine on act one but now that they fixed zombie bears i'm back to using that build. Act 2 made SB invaluable against the wasp like monsters that fly around making hitting them with bears and splinters a hard task, however i kind of miss jungle fortitude and spirit vessel. No matter how tanky you get, or how good you are, shit will happen and you'll need something to fall back on. SB does need a small buff to become more viable but i'm kind of afraid that it will replace splinters if made so.

    The whole pain of inferno pretty much stomps the idea of changing skills around. SB and splinters are both amazing skills against different circumstances. Using splinters against hardhitting mobs you need to kite and going SB against hard to hit targets would make the witch doctor so much more viable and fun to play. However nephalem valor makes you wanna keep one build that works at most times. It's a tax we shouldn't have to pay if we want to adapt. It would make the game so much more interesting after all. I never understood why blizzard did this in the first place. It's not like it's slowing down progression or anything. It only makes the game more mundane and condemns several abilities to becoming unusable.
  • #14
    I was running darts fine until i hit the part in act 3 after the catapaults where you go down into the dungeon. The main issue for me was kiting became impossible on top of the fact that blue packs of the guys with tongues are rediculous. Spirit barrage works really well and got me to Ghom, who is really annoying in inferno, because you can shot blindly behind walls. if you stay away from closed doors you can shoot blindly behind the wall and hit the enemies, you know you hit them when the damage pops up, and you know it's a blue pack when they don't die as fast. I did have to reset a few times for some rediculous packs and skipped a few others, but what had seemed impossible became doable with spirit barrage. However, I am now using bats and am liking them, havent tried them in act 3 yet though.
  • #15
    Quote from kabob83

    I was running darts fine until i hit the part in act 3 after the catapaults where you go down into the dungeon. The main issue for me was kiting became impossible on top of the fact that blue packs of the guys with tongues are rediculous. Spirit barrage works really well and got me to Ghom, who is really annoying in inferno, because you can shot blindly behind walls. if you stay away from closed doors you can shoot blindly behind the wall and hit the enemies, you know you hit them when the damage pops up, and you know it's a blue pack when they don't die as fast. I did have to reset a few times for some rediculous packs and skipped a few others, but what had seemed impossible became doable with spirit barrage. However, I am now using bats and am liking them, havent tried them in act 3 yet though.


    Seems to me that you didnt have good enough gear though. Ghom really isnt that hard if you are ranged with decent resistance/vita and decent dps.
  • #16
    So, I just compared this skill to some of the other classes, and I think I've come to the conclusion that this is one of the worst damage dealing (secondary) skills.
    Some interesting things show up when you compare it to other classes.
    Monk:
    Lashing Tail Kick - AoE base 200. Plus Knockback. And it's runeable up to 240.
    Exploding Palm - Single target 220 of 3 seconds plus explosions for 30% monster HP
    Wave of Light - AoE 215 plus a wave of 45 (not sure if that counts to the ones that got that first AoE). Plus Knockback. Runeable up to 312 or cut cost in half (not if it hits anything, just cut the cost in half)

    Wizard:
    Ray of Frost - Single target 215 + slow. Runeable to 280, AoE 215, or reduce cost to FREE (that's right, free).
    Arcane Orb - AoE of 175 (to 10 yards). Runeable to 228 or cut cost in half.

    DemonHunter:
    Impale - 250%. Runeable to AoE, stun, or to add 125% bleed over 2 seconds (or 100% on crit).
    Rapidfire - 228%
    Elemental Arrow - Pass through AoE of 155%

    I didn't cover a number of skills (obviously). The ones I didn't had cooldowns (wave of force), where channels (Blizzard), were long term DoT (Haunt, Plague), or had some other effect to make them not particularly comparible (meteor, blade storm, cyclone, disintegrate). It's like a really good primary skill, except it costs as much energy as other, much better, attack spells. Sure, you can rune it to get a little less than half mana back, but it's only on hit. Most of the other classes don't do the "on hit" part, and just cut the cost in half (or more, in the case of Ray of Frost). These other skills either do more damage or come with secondary effects, or both.

    As far as making it worthwhile, there are some ideas. I would say either buff teh damage to at least 250, preferably closer to 275 (not that crazy given it's a single target skill with no affects), or give it a secondary affect. Make it slow of a few seconds, or add in another 50-100 DoT over the next couple of seconds, finally, they could make it AoE. Personally, I think a combination of higher damage (220-250) plus a slow would be great. It might not be your main damage dealer (still wouldn't compare to bats or ZB), but it'd be a great extra skill (this would be great instead of hex if you weren't going VQ), even more so if they kept the return 44 mana on hit (personally, if I have to hit something to get the mana back, it should be the best mana reduction compared to other classes mana reduction, but it's not.
  • #17
    My problem with spirit barrage was always kind of a functional one in that it didn't seem to do anything special. It was jut another ranged offensive spell. And when I'd use it at the top of stairs it often couldn't find its way to the bottom of the stairs to hit its target. Or they should have even made it do other things like go through walls and stuff so you could flee around a corner and barrage them for as long as possible until they turned the corner. That'd be awesome.
  • #18
    Quote from Siaynoq

    My problem with spirit barrage was always kind of a functional one in that it didn't seem to do anything special. It was jut another ranged offensive spell. And when I'd use it at the top of stairs it often couldn't find its way to the bottom of the stairs to hit its target. Or they should have even made it do other things like go through walls and stuff so you could flee around a corner and barrage them for as long as possible until they turned the corner. That'd be awesome.


    That would be nice.

    For some reason, I have this feeling like SB COULD be just awesome, but it's not. Like, it's almost great, but it's got something blocking it. And I have no idea why I think that, because it's got a lot of problems. Bad dps/mana ratio, wonky targeting some times. Slow travel time, because it's specific targeting, you have to more your mouse a lot more when kiting, uninteresting runes. Maybe it's a remanent of my love for Bone Spear/Spirit from D2. I really want Bone Spear back, just make it travel faster (like, make it a hit scan skill. It'd be totally awesome).
  • #19
    Yeah well being that it's a single target skill, you'd think it would have some of the highest damage of any WD offensive skill. And yeah I remember earlier on trying SB but it was just....underwhelming? Who knows? The OP could be onto something though. Perhaps being the overlooked skill that it is there is something more to it. But I just remember it always being so weak sauce.
  • #20
    Quote from Siaynoq

    My problem with spirit barrage was always kind of a functional one in that it didn't seem to do anything special. It was jut another ranged offensive spell. And when I'd use it at the top of stairs it often couldn't find its way to the bottom of the stairs to hit its target. Or they should have even made it do other things like go through walls and stuff so you could flee around a corner and barrage them for as long as possible until they turned the corner. That'd be awesome.


    + its too mana demanding , not really effective spell
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