Half of the Wtch Doctor's skills have cooldowns. Nine of those skills have
cooldowns >= 15 seconds.
*Barring the huge "2 minute" moves
Find a way to balance the WD skills without just denying the player access to them for large chunks of time. They did accomplished this with the other classes, so why does the WD have so many long cooldowns?
Tribal Rites, Grave Injustice, Spirit Vessel, Vision Quest (which plays off of having things on CD) All the golden runes (name change I know, but multiple abilities have reduce CD in the rune effects)
The illogical QQ train is just non stop since the beta contest, dear lord.
Zombie dogs - Multiple ways of spawning more when its on CD
Hex - 2 seconds without it, (tribal rites = 100% uptime) ohhhhhhh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Spirit Walk - OP Defensive move = 13-12 second downtime based on rune, also see spirit vessel (-2s + effect) ohhh noooooooooooooooo
Soul Harvest - effect last 30s to 60s based on rune choice, 15 second CD (spirit vessel -2s), ohhhh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 13 seconds
Horrify - 20s CD, 4s duration, time without effect 16s, (spirit vessel -2s) Ohhhhh noooooooooooooooooo 14 seconds
Mass Confusion - 60s CD. 12s duration, time without effect 48s, (rune it, 45s cd, 12s duration, time without 33s)
Wall of Zombies - 25s CD 5s duration, time without effect 20s (rune it to OP fucking 800% dmg with a knockback 25s cd)
Gargantuan - 60s CD, dont let it die? ohhhh noooooooooooooo
BBV - 120s CD, 20s duration, time without effect 100s (rune for 30s duration, time without effect 90s) ohh wait, you should PROBLY BE FUCKING USING TRIBAL RITES take 30s off the CD, 90s CD
Fetish Army -120s CD, 20s duration, time without effect 100s, a rune exists to bring the CD to 90s, then we got tribal rites which will bring this shit to a grand total of 67.5s without fetish
^ none of these CD's take into effect the proc of grave injustice either
I could probably break it down for you in an easier to read fashion, and give you less hostility, but at this point ignorance AND stupidity...... just....
At the first level, It was like, wtf can he not see? Then i thought about it and went... well... with qq like that he probly cant see... so i broke it down for you on the second level.
then at the second level I was like... well... if he didnt know this shit in the first place, he probly isnt going to look it up either, so i broke it down for you on the third level
at this level, i explain to you in full LOLDETAIL, with ohhh nooo, for dramatic effect saaavvvyyyy?
Ohhh you changed your original content, which is incorrect once you add all the passives and rune choices. I guess I need to hit the 4th level, in D3 inception, you are now entering the limbo state. Here-we-go
Zombie dogs - Multiple ways of spawning more when its on CD
^ has 100% up time if you're not an idiot or spamming Corpse Explode v2.0
Hex - 2 seconds without it, (tribal rites = 100% up time)
^ add in grave injustice you can actually have more than 1 up (if possible)
Spirit Walk - OP Defensive move = 13-12 second downtime based on rune, also see spirit vessel (-2s + effect)
under 15 seconds downtime, under 15s of CD if spirit vessel or grave injustice
Soul Harvest - effect last 30s to 60s based on rune choice, 15 second CD (spirit vessel -2s)
under 15 seconds with spirit vessel, or grave injustice
Horrify - 20s CD, 4s duration, time without effect 16s, (spirit vessel -2s) 14 seconds without horrify in play WITHOUT grave injustice
Mass Confusion - 60s CD. 12s duration, time without effect 48s, (rune it, 45s cd, 12s duration, time without 33s)
DING DING DING SKILL NUMERO 1
Wall of Zombies - 25s CD 5s duration, time without effect 20s (rune it to OP fucking 800% dmg with a knock back 25s cd)
DING DING DING SKILL NUMERO 2
Gargantuan - 60s CD, dont let it die? 100% up time
BBV - 120s CD, 20s duration, time without effect 100s (rune for 30s duration, time without effect 90s) ohh wait, you should PROBLY BE FUCKING USING TRIBAL RITES take 30s off the CD, 90s CD
Fetish Army -120s CD, 20s duration, time without effect 100s, a rune exists to bring the CD to 90s, then we got tribal rites which will bring this shit to a grand total of 67.5s without fetish
^ Skills 3 and 4
So, the WD has
4 Skills which will be on CD, when you wish they weren't but for the sake of balance they are.
GASP!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Why are you spamming so much ? Why not write everything you want in 1 post ? And not go 3 posts in a row for 2 times ?
I think point is WD is class who has pets and Crowd control and he doesn't really need to ''spam'' spells that often like other classes, also bear in mind that he is only class who needs mana for every spell, all other classes have some which are no cost or generate stuff they use, while WD doesn't, so that's why they can go ''spamming with spells'' easier.
2 Minute (even though you were "*Barring the huge "2 minute" moves" for sake of a weak arguement):
Earthquake
Call of the Ancients
Wrath of the Berserker
With the barbarian, you have resource generators meant to spam - low to moderate damage, low to moderate fury gain (depending on how you rune them). Secondary attacks who have moderate to high damage, but are limited by how much fury you have. Then the other abilities that have cooldowns. These are the abilities that are good for movement, stuns, large resource gains, etc.
The Witch Doctor has more cooldown time than all of the other classes combined.
1. I'm still not adding the barbs 2 minute cooldowns, sicne they composed 80% of his cooldown time. They're outliers. 2. The WIzard's "Archon" was not counted, because it is a sustainable buff
If you don't intend to include the barbarian cooldowns of 2 minutes, then don't bother including the Witch Doctor's either, otherwise your data is pointless as it's blatantly biased.
Edit: I can easily say let's not include 2 minute cooldowns, or pets since they shouldn't die and low and behold the witch doctor total cooldown period is 153 seconds, slightly longer than that of the monk. Your argument is has no merit if it doesn't keep its data uniform.
If you don't intend to include the barbarian cooldowns of 2 minutes, then don't bother including the Witch Doctor's either, otherwise your data is pointless as it's blatantly biased.
Edit: I can easily say let's not include 2 minute cooldowns, or pets since they shouldn't die and low and behold the witch doctor total cooldown period is 153 seconds, slightly longer than that of the monk. Your argument is has no merit if it doesn't keep its data uniform.
Each class has 3~ skills that are on a bit of a timer. Their "cooldown" skills.
1. The barbarian's "cooldown" skills are on the longest timers in the game
2. Those three skills comprise 75% of the barbarian's total cooldown time
They are complete outliers. I will not add them to the data
The Witch Doctor has way too many cooldowns. Half of his skills are cooldowns. He has more "cooldown" time than any class in the game.
If you don't intend to include the barbarian cooldowns of 2 minutes, then don't bother including the Witch Doctor's either, otherwise your data is pointless as it's blatantly biased.
Edit: I can easily say let's not include 2 minute cooldowns, or pets since they shouldn't die and low and behold the witch doctor total cooldown period is 153 seconds, slightly longer than that of the monk. Your argument is has no merit if it doesn't keep its data uniform.
Each class has 3 skills that are on a bit of a timer.
1. The barbarian has the longest timers of any class in the game
2. Those three skills comprise 72% of the barbarian's total cooldown time
They are complete outliers. I will not add them to any figures I work with.
The Witch Doctor's cooldown timers are obscene.
Without pets or the same 2 minute timers you refuse to acknowledge for the barbarian, 153 seconds.
A lot of the WD "long cooldown" spells are summons that either last until killed, or last for at least 1/5th or 1/6th of the cd.
So if you keep your pets alive, then that cooldown would be negated. (and only time will tell if those pets will be able to hold up in the later difficulties.)
I'm not sure if your assesment of the situation is based on the fact that you want to play as a Witch Doctor, and perceive him to be weaker than the other classes due to the existance of cooldowns, or you just believe that cooldowns are a bad thing overall (like many have said when they first showed skills with cooldowns) - in any case your bias so far is quite obvious.
The cooldown on WD's pets is an absolute must if you want to incentive players to actually help the pets with other skills, otherwise you can just summon pets and watch the whole action happen without lifting a finger, a la D2 (which I'm sure isn't inteded by the game devs design-wise). You can still kind of do it, but the cooldown will make your gameplay misery. The cooldown is a clear message "if you don't actively participate in battle WITH your minions, they're going to be wasted", imho. That's specially necessary when you consider that a skill like Zombie Dogs is similar to a Mirror Image in the sense that it can "distract" up to 3 enemies, and they deal damage (naturally, without a rune).
On pretty much every area of effect Crowd Control (slows, stuns, fear) you must have a cooldown, or make sure these skills always drain 25%-30% of a hero's resource pool (which is similar to how some traps/Discipline skills work - except they're not the main offensive weapon of the DH), otherwise you create extremely broken situations both in PvE and PvP. Every class' big AoE CC abilities have similar cooldowns.
Even considering that, the WD has a huge advantage since his abilities usually have a duration that's very close to the cooldown. Grasp of the Dead lasts for 8 sec and has an 8 sec cd, same thing for Hex, Soul Harvest lasts for 30 seconds, with a 15 sec cd. Spells like Frost Nova, Wave of Force, Slow Time, Ground Stomp, etc. have HUGE cooldowns with a very little duration.
At this point, I guess enough people have shown you the answer to why he has so "many" cooldowns.
Convinced already? Any other points you want to mention?
Yah, I alread explained this to him, over and over, and over. He just wont understand, if in theory has a 10sec cd, but the effect last 8 seconds, you're without the effect for 2 seconds, this leads to 2 seconds of downtime, who gives a shit how long the CD is, care about how the skill behaves, and the downtime of it. WD play style for the most part, will be about using things at the right time, and not mindless spam (you can build a spam build with little to no CDs). There are 3 OP passives to reduce CD's. Pets last an eternity unless you sacrifice them, or dont go proper pet spec.
Its just? give up? It's clearly balanced?
Further Zero is 100% correct about the pets. If there was no long CD you would just do this.
Summon Dogs + Sacrifice = gg Or you would just spam summon pets and afk while they do everything for you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
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Demon Hunter: 2
Barbarian: 1*
Monk: 3
Wizard: 3
Witch Doctor: 9
Half of the Wtch Doctor's skills have cooldowns. Nine of those skills have
cooldowns >= 15 seconds.
*Barring the huge "2 minute" moves
Find a way to balance the WD skills without just denying the player access to them for large chunks of time. They did accomplished this with the other classes, so why does the WD have so many long cooldowns?
Ever heard of... class balance?
and every class has CD's
ALL OF THEM.
Ohhh and ever heard of?
Tribal Rites, Grave Injustice, Spirit Vessel, Vision Quest (which plays off of having things on CD) All the golden runes (name change I know, but multiple abilities have reduce CD in the rune effects)
The illogical QQ train is just non stop since the beta contest, dear lord.
Zombie dogs - Multiple ways of spawning more when its on CD
Hex - 2 seconds without it, (tribal rites = 100% uptime) ohhhhhhh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Spirit Walk - OP Defensive move = 13-12 second downtime based on rune, also see spirit vessel (-2s + effect) ohhh noooooooooooooooo
Soul Harvest - effect last 30s to 60s based on rune choice, 15 second CD (spirit vessel -2s), ohhhh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 13 seconds
Horrify - 20s CD, 4s duration, time without effect 16s, (spirit vessel -2s) Ohhhhh noooooooooooooooooo 14 seconds
Mass Confusion - 60s CD. 12s duration, time without effect 48s, (rune it, 45s cd, 12s duration, time without 33s)
Wall of Zombies - 25s CD 5s duration, time without effect 20s (rune it to OP fucking 800% dmg with a knockback 25s cd)
Gargantuan - 60s CD, dont let it die? ohhhh noooooooooooooo
BBV - 120s CD, 20s duration, time without effect 100s (rune for 30s duration, time without effect 90s) ohh wait, you should PROBLY BE FUCKING USING TRIBAL RITES take 30s off the CD, 90s CD
Fetish Army -120s CD, 20s duration, time without effect 100s, a rune exists to bring the CD to 90s, then we got tribal rites which will bring this shit to a grand total of 67.5s without fetish
^ none of these CD's take into effect the proc of grave injustice either
I could probably break it down for you in an easier to read fashion, and give you less hostility, but at this point ignorance AND stupidity...... just....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYJglSVP4IU&feature=related
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Edit
You've now posted 7 times in my thread, contributing not much more than a rant. I'm reporting you.
then at the second level I was like... well... if he didnt know this shit in the first place, he probly isnt going to look it up either, so i broke it down for you on the third level
at this level, i explain to you in full LOLDETAIL, with ohhh nooo, for dramatic effect saaavvvyyyy?
Ohhh you changed your original content, which is incorrect once you add all the passives and rune choices. I guess I need to hit the 4th level, in D3 inception, you are now entering the limbo state. Here-we-go
Zombie dogs - Multiple ways of spawning more when its on CD
^ has 100% up time if you're not an idiot or spamming Corpse Explode v2.0
Hex - 2 seconds without it, (tribal rites = 100% up time)
^ add in grave injustice you can actually have more than 1 up (if possible)
Spirit Walk - OP Defensive move = 13-12 second downtime based on rune, also see spirit vessel (-2s + effect)
under 15 seconds downtime, under 15s of CD if spirit vessel or grave injustice
Soul Harvest - effect last 30s to 60s based on rune choice, 15 second CD (spirit vessel -2s)
under 15 seconds with spirit vessel, or grave injustice
Horrify - 20s CD, 4s duration, time without effect 16s, (spirit vessel -2s) 14 seconds without horrify in play WITHOUT grave injustice
Mass Confusion - 60s CD. 12s duration, time without effect 48s, (rune it, 45s cd, 12s duration, time without 33s)
DING DING DING SKILL NUMERO 1
Wall of Zombies - 25s CD 5s duration, time without effect 20s (rune it to OP fucking 800% dmg with a knock back 25s cd)
DING DING DING SKILL NUMERO 2
Gargantuan - 60s CD, dont let it die? 100% up time
BBV - 120s CD, 20s duration, time without effect 100s (rune for 30s duration, time without effect 90s) ohh wait, you should PROBLY BE FUCKING USING TRIBAL RITES take 30s off the CD, 90s CD
Fetish Army -120s CD, 20s duration, time without effect 100s, a rune exists to bring the CD to 90s, then we got tribal rites which will bring this shit to a grand total of 67.5s without fetish
^ Skills 3 and 4
So, the WD has
4 Skills which will be on CD, when you wish they weren't but for the sake of balance they are.
GASP!
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
I think point is WD is class who has pets and Crowd control and he doesn't really need to ''spam'' spells that often like other classes, also bear in mind that he is only class who needs mana for every spell, all other classes have some which are no cost or generate stuff they use, while WD doesn't, so that's why they can go ''spamming with spells'' easier.
Because thats why, deal with it.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Ground Stomp -12 seconds
Ignore Pain - 30
Leap Attack -10
Furious Charge -10
War Cry - 30
Overpower - 15
Ancient Spear - 10
2 Minute (even though you were "*Barring the huge "2 minute" moves" for sake of a weak arguement):
Earthquake
Call of the Ancients
Wrath of the Berserker
With the barbarian, you have resource generators meant to spam - low to moderate damage, low to moderate fury gain (depending on how you rune them). Secondary attacks who have moderate to high damage, but are limited by how much fury you have. Then the other abilities that have cooldowns. These are the abilities that are good for movement, stuns, large resource gains, etc.
I've added up all of the cooldown times for all of the skills for each class. Here are the results:
Barbarian: 137 seconds
Demon Hunter: 85 seconds
Monk: 135 seconds
Wizard: 94 seconds
Witch Doctor: 513 seconds
The Witch Doctor has more cooldown time than all of the other classes combined.
1. I'm still not adding the barbs 2 minute cooldowns, sicne they composed 80% of his cooldown time. They're outliers.
2. The WIzard's "Archon" was not counted, because it is a sustainable buff
If you don't intend to include the barbarian cooldowns of 2 minutes, then don't bother including the Witch Doctor's either, otherwise your data is pointless as it's blatantly biased.
Edit: I can easily say let's not include 2 minute cooldowns, or pets since they shouldn't die and low and behold the witch doctor total cooldown period is 153 seconds, slightly longer than that of the monk. Your argument is has no merit if it doesn't keep its data uniform.
Each class has 3~ skills that are on a bit of a timer. Their "cooldown" skills.
1. The barbarian's "cooldown" skills are on the longest timers in the game
2. Those three skills comprise 75% of the barbarian's total cooldown time
They are complete outliers. I will not add them to the data
The Witch Doctor has way too many cooldowns. Half of his skills are cooldowns. He has more "cooldown" time than any class in the game.
Without pets or the same 2 minute timers you refuse to acknowledge for the barbarian, 153 seconds.
So if you keep your pets alive, then that cooldown would be negated. (and only time will tell if those pets will be able to hold up in the later difficulties.)
WD pets are a sustainable buff... either include all cooldowns or don't, otherwise you're just lying to make your argument look better.
The cooldown on WD's pets is an absolute must if you want to incentive players to actually help the pets with other skills, otherwise you can just summon pets and watch the whole action happen without lifting a finger, a la D2 (which I'm sure isn't inteded by the game devs design-wise). You can still kind of do it, but the cooldown will make your gameplay misery. The cooldown is a clear message "if you don't actively participate in battle WITH your minions, they're going to be wasted", imho. That's specially necessary when you consider that a skill like Zombie Dogs is similar to a Mirror Image in the sense that it can "distract" up to 3 enemies, and they deal damage (naturally, without a rune).
On pretty much every area of effect Crowd Control (slows, stuns, fear) you must have a cooldown, or make sure these skills always drain 25%-30% of a hero's resource pool (which is similar to how some traps/Discipline skills work - except they're not the main offensive weapon of the DH), otherwise you create extremely broken situations both in PvE and PvP. Every class' big AoE CC abilities have similar cooldowns.
Even considering that, the WD has a huge advantage since his abilities usually have a duration that's very close to the cooldown. Grasp of the Dead lasts for 8 sec and has an 8 sec cd, same thing for Hex, Soul Harvest lasts for 30 seconds, with a 15 sec cd. Spells like Frost Nova, Wave of Force, Slow Time, Ground Stomp, etc. have HUGE cooldowns with a very little duration.
At this point, I guess enough people have shown you the answer to why he has so "many" cooldowns.
Convinced already? Any other points you want to mention?
Its just? give up? It's clearly balanced?
Further Zero is 100% correct about the pets. If there was no long CD you would just do this.
Summon Dogs + Sacrifice = gg Or you would just spam summon pets and afk while they do everything for you.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."