So i just got done testing out the WD with all the new changes. at first i was real mad about all the nerfs but like someone (snaks42 cough*) pointed out we never got to test the skills therefor its not technically a nerf to anything we know.
first of all they changed all the interface and menus and made them look fancier and smoother, it feels much more "done" with this change.
i love being able to test some of the runes. i know most people agree psn dart sucks balls. but after getting the first rune its awesome. shoots 3 darts at 70% dmg. its actually viable now with this rune and one of his best single target spells. haunt even though is now 350% dmg over 15 seconds starting at lvl 9 it feels VERY weak even with a decent weapon. my opinion but it kills way too slow compared to any other spells.
leaping spiders is AMAZING. they are like twice the size as reg spiders and all black, they look sick. they will leap up to 25 yards to reach a target and its a super fast leap and they will continue to leap attack until they dissapear so before when the spiders would dissapear before even attacking once is no longer an issue with this rune. its my new fav spell/rune combo. just chuck a few vases into a room and watch the spiders bounce around the room destroying everything. you can literally throw the spiders way to the left or right of a group and be fine because they insta jump n om nom nom. they still cost quite a bit of mana, feels about the same as before, you can spam it 5-6 times then have to regen mana to spam it more. twice the mana cost of poison dart/firebomb
the groping eals rune on grasp of the dead is awesome too. although its only a 14% boost in dmg, but its per second so it definitely adds up.
the zombie dogs did get a nerf but not like they did much noticeable dmg before either.
plague of toads seemed like it got a nerf. on closer inspection i realized the mana costs of toads is the cheapest in the game even cheaper then psn darts, so you can spam it even more then before. i remember the cost definitely being a lot more hefty then poison dart which made it undesirable. now its a close combat spammable attack. so same situation as firebomb below.
firebomb also seemed like it got an insane nerf. but the mana reduction of use was also huge so you can spam it twice as often so technically you can do more dmg with it because its as cheap as poison dart which is almost endlessly spammable.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Not all that surprising, the WD at least to me, felt the most OP of all classes. This would've only got worse the higher level you got, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see them being substantially stronger than any other class at 60, if not for these nurfs.
you havent played remotely anything of D3, if you got in the beta you played a small portion of the game, so i dont think you can speculate and say what they did was a bad move, the WD was op to begin with, and needed some tuning and if you couldnt see that then i suppose you can sit here and complain, but relax, its not set it stone, they said they liked where the barb is and he is balanced but got nerfed a bunch and then he got rebalanced the same could happen for every class, so sit back relax and chill, it sucks to see your favorite class get nerfed but it'll allllllll be fine
I got to play a WD on my friends account, and a little of a wizard (Still hoping for a beta key to test coop with him instead of bribing him with pokemon, but yeah)
Anyways, I never even got hit on the WD. I never even had to attack. It was seriously OP. Dogs with passive will still be a free 36% damage with no rune. The runes still have the possibility to add a lot of damage, before the healing one was a no brainer, but now you'll actually think about if you want them to deal a lot of damage or be passive healing.
Now I don't like seeing my favorite class get nerfed just like everyone else, but WD and to a lesser extent Wiz were leaps and bounds stronger than everyone else. I've watched my friend play every class. Hell, he died on the DH, and was always low on a monk. Barb was okay, but did less damage than WD and Wiz and had to be in melee to do it.
Plenty of time until release if they overnerfed though.
Now I don't like seeing my favorite class get nerfed just like everyone else, but WD and to a lesser extent Wiz were leaps and bounds stronger than everyone else. I've watched my friend play every class. Hell, he died on the DH, and was always low on a monk. Barb was okay, but did less damage than WD and Wiz and had to be in melee to do it.
See I think most of this is player though. Some people are better at playing certain types of classes. For me I intially thought the witch doctor was the strongest, while the wizard was the weakest. Of course, I did a little math an apparently my "skill" with the classes suggests my best -> worst is monk > barb > wd > dh > wiz.
If you're wondering how I figured that based on math, I just played each class to 13 while clearing every corner of every map/level and divided monsters killed by minutes played.
Now I don't like seeing my favorite class get nerfed just like everyone else, but WD and to a lesser extent Wiz were leaps and bounds stronger than everyone else. I've watched my friend play every class. Hell, he died on the DH, and was always low on a monk. Barb was okay, but did less damage than WD and Wiz and had to be in melee to do it.
See I think most of this is player though. Some people are better at playing certain types of classes. For me I intially thought the witch doctor was the strongest, while the wizard was the weakest. Of course, I did a little math an apparently my "skill" with the classes suggests my best -> worst is monk > barb > wd > dh > wiz.
If you're wondering how I figured that based on math, I just played each class to 13 while clearing every corner of every map/level and divided monsters killed by minutes played.
I don't see how this is at all surprising. We have played barely any of the game, these changes aren't designed for us they are designed for the benefit of the game as a whole. If they balanced the game around the very beginning of Act 1 Normal, we would have a much bigger problem.
See I think most of this is player though. Some people are better at playing certain types of classes. For me I intially thought the witch doctor was the strongest, while the wizard was the weakest. Of course, I did a little math an apparently my "skill" with the classes suggests my best -> worst is monk > barb > wd > dh > wiz.
If you're wondering how I figured that based on math, I just played each class to 13 while clearing every corner of every map/level and divided monsters killed by minutes played.
Feeling is good and all, but last time I heard any numbers floating around DH is always last.
For sustained %weapon damage per second it was WD > Wiz > Barb > Monk > DH
For burst it was Wiz >>>>>>>>>> Barb > Monk > WD > DH
Of course Wiz Barb and Monk all have the resource they can drain in a hurry. In theory DH should have it as well, but the combination of ranged weapons being weaker and their ratios being lower really pushed them out of it. WD can't really spend all of their mana in 2 seconds for huge burst like the other classes can.
Now I don't like seeing my favorite class get nerfed just like everyone else, but WD and to a lesser extent Wiz were leaps and bounds stronger than everyone else. I've watched my friend play every class. Hell, he died on the DH, and was always low on a monk. Barb was okay, but did less damage than WD and Wiz and had to be in melee to do it.
See I think most of this is player though. Some people are better at playing certain types of classes. For me I intially thought the witch doctor was the strongest, while the wizard was the weakest. Of course, I did a little math an apparently my "skill" with the classes suggests my best -> worst is monk > barb > wd > dh > wiz.
If you're wondering how I figured that based on math, I just played each class to 13 while clearing every corner of every map/level and divided monsters killed by minutes played.
hmm i think your math is off....
Nope. These figures were all monsters killed per minute:
See I think most of this is player though. Some people are better at playing certain types of classes. For me I intially thought the witch doctor was the strongest, while the wizard was the weakest. Of course, I did a little math an apparently my "skill" with the classes suggests my best -> worst is monk > barb > wd > dh > wiz.
If you're wondering how I figured that based on math, I just played each class to 13 while clearing every corner of every map/level and divided monsters killed by minutes played.
Feeling is good and all, but last time I heard any numbers floating around DH is always last.
For sustained %weapon damage per second it was WD > Wiz > Barb > Monk > DH
For burst it was Wiz >>>>>>>>>> Barb > Monk > WD > DH
Of course Wiz Barb and Monk all have the resource they can drain in a hurry. In theory DH should have it as well, but the combination of ranged weapons being weaker and their ratios being lower really pushed them out of it. WD can't really spend all of their mana in 2 seconds for huge burst like the other classes can.
Single target wise Demon Hunter was most likely first in patch 12 simply because it had access to the best weapons of the 5 classes, and also having one of the best available (1-13 obviously) ST abilities coupled with that, didn't hurt. AOE wise I'd say WD and Wizard were the best.
Of course, none of this matters since patch 12 is in the past.
The fact that you are mad at a nerf, when you've never played in anything but beta, is not only hysterical, it's provably misinformed. I mean cmon Glad, how can you be mad whens there's no basis? Do you know what damage end game weapons will do? Because if you don't, then the nerf could be nothing. Maybe 15% of weapons that will undoubtedly do thousands of damage was way too much.
Plus, I hope you're trolling. If not, quit whinin bud
I saw quite a few vids of DH having like 400+ dps in the beta just plowing through rooms.
I was certain DH was top, but could be wrong.
After re-evaluating these changes, some really do make sense like firebomb & spir attunement.
Plague of toads is kind of perplexing to me, though.
Thing about the DH having that high DPS is it relies on really good crafting procs. The DH has the advantage of being able to craft rare 1 handed crossbows, so the perception that their damage is high when you have good gear is something of an illusion.
I felt that DH damage was low while leveling, but it wasn't crippling. With the buff they got this patch, it's bound to be much better.
I felt that DH damage was low while leveling, but it wasn't crippling. With the buff they got this patch, it's bound to be much better.
Yeah, they were the only class without most of their spam skills being over 100% weapon damage. They seem to be more gear dependent than most classes, which is strange since everyone uses weapon damage ratios for everything. But DH seemed weak.
Back on topic, I don't think WD should be the highest damage class. It has a ton of survivability and damage misdirection and it should give up something for that.
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first of all they changed all the interface and menus and made them look fancier and smoother, it feels much more "done" with this change.
i love being able to test some of the runes. i know most people agree psn dart sucks balls. but after getting the first rune its awesome. shoots 3 darts at 70% dmg. its actually viable now with this rune and one of his best single target spells. haunt even though is now 350% dmg over 15 seconds starting at lvl 9 it feels VERY weak even with a decent weapon. my opinion but it kills way too slow compared to any other spells.
leaping spiders is AMAZING. they are like twice the size as reg spiders and all black, they look sick. they will leap up to 25 yards to reach a target and its a super fast leap and they will continue to leap attack until they dissapear so before when the spiders would dissapear before even attacking once is no longer an issue with this rune. its my new fav spell/rune combo. just chuck a few vases into a room and watch the spiders bounce around the room destroying everything. you can literally throw the spiders way to the left or right of a group and be fine because they insta jump n om nom nom. they still cost quite a bit of mana, feels about the same as before, you can spam it 5-6 times then have to regen mana to spam it more. twice the mana cost of poison dart/firebomb
the groping eals rune on grasp of the dead is awesome too. although its only a 14% boost in dmg, but its per second so it definitely adds up.
the zombie dogs did get a nerf but not like they did much noticeable dmg before either.
plague of toads seemed like it got a nerf. on closer inspection i realized the mana costs of toads is the cheapest in the game even cheaper then psn darts, so you can spam it even more then before. i remember the cost definitely being a lot more hefty then poison dart which made it undesirable. now its a close combat spammable attack. so same situation as firebomb below.
firebomb also seemed like it got an insane nerf. but the mana reduction of use was also huge so you can spam it twice as often so technically you can do more dmg with it because its as cheap as poison dart which is almost endlessly spammable.
Anyways, I never even got hit on the WD. I never even had to attack. It was seriously OP. Dogs with passive will still be a free 36% damage with no rune. The runes still have the possibility to add a lot of damage, before the healing one was a no brainer, but now you'll actually think about if you want them to deal a lot of damage or be passive healing.
Now I don't like seeing my favorite class get nerfed just like everyone else, but WD and to a lesser extent Wiz were leaps and bounds stronger than everyone else. I've watched my friend play every class. Hell, he died on the DH, and was always low on a monk. Barb was okay, but did less damage than WD and Wiz and had to be in melee to do it.
Plenty of time until release if they overnerfed though.
See I think most of this is player though. Some people are better at playing certain types of classes. For me I intially thought the witch doctor was the strongest, while the wizard was the weakest. Of course, I did a little math an apparently my "skill" with the classes suggests my best -> worst is monk > barb > wd > dh > wiz.
If you're wondering how I figured that based on math, I just played each class to 13 while clearing every corner of every map/level and divided monsters killed by minutes played.
hmm i think your math is off....
You see that, yes?
For sustained %weapon damage per second it was WD > Wiz > Barb > Monk > DH
For burst it was Wiz >>>>>>>>>> Barb > Monk > WD > DH
Of course Wiz Barb and Monk all have the resource they can drain in a hurry. In theory DH should have it as well, but the combination of ranged weapons being weaker and their ratios being lower really pushed them out of it. WD can't really spend all of their mana in 2 seconds for huge burst like the other classes can.
Nope. These figures were all monsters killed per minute:
Barbarian - 9.8
Demon Hunter - 6.4
Monk - 10.7
Witch Doctor - 7.1
Wizard - 6.3
All this was 1-13 with no hand me downs, clearing every corner of every map/level, like I said in my last post.
Single target wise Demon Hunter was most likely first in patch 12 simply because it had access to the best weapons of the 5 classes, and also having one of the best available (1-13 obviously) ST abilities coupled with that, didn't hurt. AOE wise I'd say WD and Wizard were the best.
Of course, none of this matters since patch 12 is in the past.
ever top what?
I saw quite a few vids of DH having like 400+ dps in the beta just plowing through rooms.
I was certain DH was top, but could be wrong.
After re-evaluating these changes, some really do make sense like firebomb & spir attunement.
Plague of toads is kind of perplexing to me, though.
Yeah, & you're really bright.
The fact that you are mad at a nerf, when you've never played in anything but beta, is not only hysterical, it's provably misinformed. I mean cmon Glad, how can you be mad whens there's no basis? Do you know what damage end game weapons will do? Because if you don't, then the nerf could be nothing. Maybe 15% of weapons that will undoubtedly do thousands of damage was way too much.
Plus, I hope you're trolling. If not, quit whinin bud
/Flamethrower OFF/
Thing about the DH having that high DPS is it relies on really good crafting procs. The DH has the advantage of being able to craft rare 1 handed crossbows, so the perception that their damage is high when you have good gear is something of an illusion.
I felt that DH damage was low while leveling, but it wasn't crippling. With the buff they got this patch, it's bound to be much better.
ever on top* didnt realize the smallest grammatical error threw you off, my apologies
i could see where you thought that, dont get me wrong dh was strong in many cases, but ive seen many vids where every class had a crazy amount of dps
Back on topic, I don't think WD should be the highest damage class. It has a ton of survivability and damage misdirection and it should give up something for that.