Help me make my monk MP5-7 ready!

  • #1
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Confetti-1391/hero/291115

    Hey guys,

    Just asking for some advice on how to upgrade my monk and make it ready for anything MP5 and perhaps above.

    I can currently do MP3 easily but anything above that I am struggling with and dying a lot.

    I know my weapons need upgrading but i am confused on where to start and what to upgrade first.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Cheers.
  • #3
    I don't really see any reason why you should struggle on MP5.
  • #4
    Umm play better? You have better gear than me yet you are dying? I can handle MP7 with some deaths if I switch to mantra of evasion with the backlash rune. I think you might feel with your setup you can face roll everything but you probally need to move more.

    read this regarding backlash rune

    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/91763-mp10-what-a-laugh/
  • #5
    Yeah, I have to agree with the others here, there's no reason you shoudn't be able to faceroll MP5 at the very least.

    Here's my profile:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/IdleHands-1701/hero/5779943

    and I do MP5 just fine, only dying if I accidenally pull two packs with lots of ground attacks (plague + arcane + desecrate + molten between two packs is tough).
  • #6
    If the gear that you have now is the same one you had when you first posted then the only thing you can upgrade is your "skill".U should be doing MP7-8 EASILY.
  • #7
    Quote from Diavolo222

    If the gear that you have now is the same one you had when you first posted then the only thing you can upgrade is your "skill".U should be doing MP7-8 EASILY.


    That's not necessarily true. He's running into issues with mass damage mitigation via inept resistance and armor.

    I have the same issues with dying in many of these "impossible" situations a players gets suddenly thrown upon them. There is a general dishonesty among players when they respond to threads like this with "Learn to play".

    Being vortexed in to a Unique champ pack of Horde/Arcane/Waller minions will get you dead, fast. Skill has nothing to do with mitigating certain situations that come up often.

    Where skill fails, your build must prevail.

    I noticed Confetti has great IAS. He's a candidate for using Deadly Reach as his lead generator. Combined with high inherent IAS and the intense speed boost from a combo-strike build with WotHF/Blazing Fists rune, DS goes off well, even doing well at spinning out nados aplenty.

    I have 200+ million gold to spend on upgrades, specifically I wish to add resistances and free myself of OwE. However, I refuse to spend any significant amount of gold until the itemization update, as I feel I would regret it.

    Here is an idea that I think should be getting around more, one that I came up with to compensate for lackluster survivability via low resist.



    Now....ignore the build in it's entirety, much of it isn't necessarily relevant to the topic at hand ...save for the use of combo-striking with Blazing Fists and Deadly Strike/Keen Eye and the Passive, STi.

    There are many iterations of this build that I utilize, depending on what type of game i'm engaged in/my mood.

    I pigeon holed myself, unwittingly, into having very poor resist all (470...yikes). It happened by accident. I always kept my resist up when I was shopping via the AH for upgrades. But now, with these crafts, upgrades are sometimes so impossible to refuse, despite the fact that a crafted upgrade may lower your resist etc.

    This is how I got there. Now, my only option for buffing my survivability is to either spend ridiculous amounts to boost my resist without lowering my DPS significantly...OR...or I could rethink my build.





    The relevant numbers are underlined. The 3 APS allows Deadly Strike to function on-par with the spirit/life recoup and SW/nados we get from FoT. As well, once you learn to use DS, you can stand outside of those horrid DPS pools like multi-stacked Plagued/Molten/Arcane/Desc while still striking for DPS and keeping your Keen Eye 50% armor bonus up full-time.

    The armor sitting at just below 10k provides amazing mitigation. Some may think this will hurt their efficiency, but I'm seeing far too many people going full-glass and the time they think they're saving by being so DPS-centric, ignoring defense, they spend zerging themselves in and out of combat, dying too much.

    Though I recognize my low resist as a serious issue, I can stand a remarkable amount of damage for having 470 ALL. Other ways to embellish your DPS is through using Blinding Flash/FitL. This particular build I'm using X-Palm to garner high DPS returns.

    Anyone in a similar situation, try it. Just try it. After Not getting your ass destroyed on MP-8 (where I typically solo farm) you'll start to warm up to the idea of having mass armor.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #8
    Quote from dizphare

    Umm play better? You have better gear than me yet you are dying? I can handle MP7 with some deaths if I switch to mantra of evasion with the backlash rune. I think you might feel with your setup you can face roll everything but you probally need to move more.

    read this regarding backlash rune

    http://www.diablofan...0-what-a-laugh/


    Backlash is something I've enjoyed toying with. I feel it will really shine with the 1.08 density changes. However, Backlash is woeful in respect to 1-on-1 situations/boss encounters. It only thrives (DPS wise) when under great duress from large packs.

    Dodge itself is inept at mitigating the games worst DPS offenders. Arcanes and Affix pools will still eat you alive, no matter what your dodge rate.

    Sadly, the prospect of losing a massive 48% full-time DPS buff (Overawe) doesn't seem to compensate well for a menial dodge rate increase and intermittent AoE damage provided by Backlash.

    BL has potential with high-end gears and the impending 1.08 density buffs. But I feel many people just won't find it viable at this time.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #9
    I'm sorry buddy but you are dead wrong.The guy has gear for MP7-8.Mitigation wise he is wher ehe needs to be.He has more armor then me.His resist are more than ok for that.Double LS 180k+ dps and he cant do MP5?Im sorry but u saying its not a skill issue is quite stupid.

    Everybody has packs and sometimes is not paying attention or gets vortex into shit and they die, even INVIS does it.What does that have to do with him , stats wise, being heavily overgeared for MP3 and clearly ready for MP7 AT LEAST? And please do tell me where im being dishonest.Facts are facts; he is ready but only gear-wise.
  • #10
    Quote from Diavolo222

    I'm sorry buddy but you are dead wrong.The guy has gear for MP7-8.Mitigation wise he is wher ehe needs to be.He has more armor then me.His resist are more than ok for that.Double LS 180k+ dps and he cant do MP5?Im sorry but u saying its not a skill issue is quite stupid.


    I didn't say it wasn't a player-skill issue. I agree that his gear appears more than fine for MP 5-8. His gear is about the same tier as mine, upper mid-grade at best.

    I was suggesting that perhaps he's being killed too often, and whatever the reason, there are build choices that can compensate for whatever the issue may be.

    Unlike some, I'm not quick to call others "stupid" or to label them as bad players. I was trying to help him, not insult him. Let's just say I was being delicate and trying only to be constructive in giving advice. The build I showed above is a build I rarely use, but thought I'd share the idea with him in case it may help.

    Everybody has packs and sometimes is not paying attention or gets vortex into shit and they die, even INVIS does it.What does that have to do with him , stats wise, being heavily overgeared for MP3 and clearly ready for MP7 AT LEAST? And please do tell me where im being dishonest.Facts are facts; he is ready but only gear-wise.


    Again, I agree that he's massively overgeared for MP-3. I'm really no better geared and I can sleepwalk through MP 5.

    As for the "dishonest" remark, I apologize. I wasn't actually meaning to direct that at you or insinuate that you're a liar or anything of that sort. I only meant to imply that it would be dishonest to suggest that many of the trappings offered by high-MP Elites don't cause unavoidable deaths.

    I've heard far too many people talk shit like they're un-killable and then while playing with them they die....a LOT. Not saying you're one of them.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #11
    @RuksaK

    I use a very similar build. I believe the only difference is I like Cyclone with the 34yd radius rune vs exploding palm. I found Cyclone allowed me to keep my health and Mana up easier becuase I could just suck a majority of the bad guys to me. It allowed my LS to keep my health up easily because Im not running chasing everythig all the time. It does allow me to stand in some elementals for, at times, a significant amout of time depending on white trash mobs. Either way its just move slightly, Cyclone and continue to kill. I farm MP10, yes not the most effecient but the most fun for me, Id say I die on average 3 to 4 times per run and its always to some nasty affixed elite.

    Its a great build and hella fun.

    To the OP the build of Ruksaks is really a great build. It really maximizes Mana Regen and Life Regen while maintaining survivability. It takes getting use to with the dual primary to keep up your Combination Strike bonus but once you do it makes lower MP's a breeze.
  • #12
    It bemoans to me offer advice to a p100 monk who is obviously much more better geared than my puny monk.

    http://d3up.com/b/344101/kali

    I play MP7 comfortably dying of course to the occasional arcane/plagued combos but i have learnt to accept that. I even play on MP10 with a p90 barb and do just fine. So pardon me for the astonishment when you say you are finding it hard to go above MP5.

    And as per d3rawr your breakpoints are also just right. Your AR is 500 or so but that should be ok.

    Can you try these two switches in skills? They helped me jump to higher MP levels.

    Use WOL-Empowered wave: Gives good chunk damage plus the knockback gives you breathing space. Elite drops plague,use bell push him back. Works like a charm. And they proc insane life steal for you.

    Use Transcendence: 62 life per spirit spent is huge. You will be using WOL [40*62=2480life], MOC [50*62=3100life] all adding on to your life returning from life steal via your cyclones, primary skill and of course the almighty Bell.

    I suggest you try the Bell first. With your DPS they should give you approx 10k life per cast.

    Happy playing :)
  • #13
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from Diavolo222

    I'm sorry buddy but you are dead wrong.The guy has gear for MP7-8.Mitigation wise he is wher ehe needs to be.He has more armor then me.His resist are more than ok for that.Double LS 180k+ dps and he cant do MP5?Im sorry but u saying its not a skill issue is quite stupid.


    I didn't say it wasn't a player-skill issue. I agree that his gear appears more than fine for MP 5-8. His gear is about the same tier as mine, upper mid-grade at best.

    I was suggesting that perhaps he's being killed too often, and whatever the reason, there are build choices that can compensate for whatever the issue may be.

    Unlike some, I'm not quick to call others "stupid" or to label them as bad players. I was trying to help him, not insult him. Let's just say I was being delicate and trying only to be constructive in giving advice. The build I showed above is a build I rarely use, but thought I'd share the idea with him in case it may help.

    Everybody has packs and sometimes is not paying attention or gets vortex into shit and they die, even INVIS does it.What does that have to do with him , stats wise, being heavily overgeared for MP3 and clearly ready for MP7 AT LEAST? And please do tell me where im being dishonest.Facts are facts; he is ready but only gear-wise.


    Again, I agree that he's massively overgeared for MP-3. I'm really no better geared and I can sleepwalk through MP 5.

    As for the "dishonest" remark, I apologize. I wasn't actually meaning to direct that at you or insinuate that you're a liar or anything of that sort. I only meant to imply that it would be dishonest to suggest that many of the trappings offered by high-MP Elites don't cause unavoidable deaths.

    I've heard far too many people talk shit like they're un-killable and then while playing with them they die....a LOT. Not saying you're one of them.


    Well I died a lot more often until I got two LS weapons and ditched echoing fury, now only exploding fatties and hard packs kill me, or when im being very over confident about tanking arcane beams/plague/molten.

    I mean he could go the old safe build of Blazing Wrath / Blind \ serenity / Mantra / FoT TC / Cyclone and be done with it.That's like ..you cannot die with that build with his gear.Tho I think it would be a bit of a stretch to get BW with 2 LS weapons.

    Dunno I dont like to label people, but with that gear he has you have agree with me when u have that kind of gear and u got issues in Mp3+ something is wrong and its not the build, or at least that';s the first thing that pops in your head.

    I mean I run the speed palm build, no serenity no nothing.Hell I stack physical res so ( doing so since 1.0.0 cause of some drops grrrr, hell my crafted trifecta bracers have phys ) I sometimes go without OWE and have 640 phys and rest 310 and im doing just fine on MP8.So with a defensive build he should be dying very very rarely.
  • #14
    Quote from GangusKahn

    @RuksaK

    I use a very similar build. I believe the only difference is I like Cyclone with the 34yd radius rune vs exploding palm. I found Cyclone allowed me to keep my health and Mana up easier becuase I could just suck a majority of the bad guys to me. It allowed my LS to keep my health up easily because Im not running chasing everythig all the time. It does allow me to stand in some elementals for, at times, a significant amout of time depending on white trash mobs. Either way its just move slightly, Cyclone and continue to kill. I farm MP10, yes not the most effecient but the most fun for me, Id say I die on average 3 to 4 times per run and its always to some nasty affixed elite.

    Its a great build and hella fun.

    To the OP the build of Ruksaks is really a great build. It really maximizes Mana Regen and Life Regen while maintaining survivability. It takes getting use to with the dual primary to keep up your Combination Strike bonus but once you do it makes lower MP's a breeze.


    I need to revisit Cyclone Strike. I tried it briefly and was dissatisfied. Because I had imagined the effect would behave differently than it did. I didn't seem to be able to draw in enemies as well as I thought I would (probably user error on my part/not being skilled with CS). As well, the dynamic between Resource cost and CS's runes troubled me. CS costs 50 Spirit per, a high cost. There's a Rune that lowers this cost substantially, but then you're turning your back on many of the great runes that synergize CS.

    i.e. To use CS you either have to deal with extraordinarily high Resource costs, or ignore all the great Rune choices and opt for the low Resource cost. In short, CS needs a Resource reduction IMO. All that being said, I didn't try it long enough to become skilled at using it, so I should try to do so.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #15
    Quote from Diavolo222

    Dunno I dont like to label people, but with that gear he has you have agree with me when u have that kind of gear and u got issues in Mp3+ something is wrong and its not the build, or at least that';s the first thing that pops in your head.


    Absolutely. There isn't a build mistake anyone could make that should present someone at that gear-level with issues on MP 3. MP 3 should be a sleepwalk for anyone close to that gear level.

    If he's having issues on MP5, I would say the same.

    NOW...MP8+ is where people are going to be surprised by the damage pouring off of some of these enemy affixes.

    I mean I run the speed palm build, no serenity no nothing.Hell I stack physical res so ( doing so since 1.0.0 cause of some drops grrrr, hell my crafted trifecta bracers have phys ) I sometimes go without OWE and have 640 phys and rest 310 and im doing just fine on MP8.


    The SP build. Product of our respected member Invis. A very in-your-face DPS build.

    I noticed some things from the small amount of video I saw on this build, as well as observations I've made from a few friends who run it.

    They tend to spend so much time dancing around, trying to avoid massive DPS dealing affix pools and other terrible threats, that I'm not seeing them relentlessly attack. That build puts the player in a position to never be able to stand their ground. My above build does. You don't have to move off your spot, almost never.

    I know many will argue that they don't dance around, using their "skill" to avoid damage. But I'm not seeing it in theory, nor in practice. No serenity = no temp invulnerability. No temp invulnerability means you're going to die just from looking at certain affix combinations. Unless....unless you dance around. You aren't standing in multiple stacks of Plagued, surrounded by Walls with a desecrator under toe with the SP, you will die.

    Using my above build, you will not die. You will stand your ground and continue to deal DPS, apply X-palm tags and recoup life through LS/LoH. If you have to keep on the move, run, you lose time combating. If you lose time combating, whatever DPS you think you're buffed up from your glassy build, you're actually losing because of time that's passing between attacks.

    Case in point;


    He's reduced to 30% health or less at least 3 times in this encounter. These Elites DO NOT even have Arcanes, Desc, Molten or Plagued. They didn't have a single one of the worst DPS dealers as an affix, there are no annoying white mobs around creating more issues, he's running around like a chicken AND he took a severe beating in doing so without that pack even having a threatening affix.

    Now, this is not an indictment on what has become one of the more popular Monk builds. I'm pointing out that the word "skill" is being used in place of "kiting"/avoiding damage by running away, all too often.

    My build....you don't run and scramble to avoid damage. You stand your ground and attack without interruption. I'm only at 160k unbuffed, I sport an over-the-top near 10k armor full-time, 470 AR.......and I still blowup whole mobs/Elite packs on MP 8 without egregious amounts dying (death is very rare in fact).

    I also don't like NdE as a mitigation for X-palm hitting you on Reflect Damage. Serenity, when timed correctly, is the only way to avoid being blown up by your own X-palm. Invis even states explicitly in his SP build thread that a big part of his strategy is to run away when a tagged Elite is about to blow.

    Again, I don't run. I stand my ground, pop serenity and keep swingin.

    I want to be clear. I AM NOT saying my build is better than the SP. I'm saying perhaps similar builds to mine may appeal to some over the SP due to play-style issues, or, if people feel SP is too glassy without high-end gears.

    IMO...SP is a glass Monk build.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #16
    It might be but I to be honest lately since upgrading my gear I very rarely die.Sure I dont stand my ground like 100% of the time.But for me personally I would get bored fast of absolutely never having to move.Plus the build is not set in stone, u can user serenity instead of blind. The build is going to work. The whole point to the speed palm build is to have the 2 generators, especially blazing fists and combination strike with Exploding palm.The rest u can move around.

    I mean I dont know how glass cannony it is since I can tank some horde plague reflect dmg face2face np.Yea sure its not as defensive as yours but meh, to each his own.Another thing that is cool about the build is that with the right gear,I'm like at 260k buffed I can just put exploding palm, blind + overawe and in a matter of seconds the pack is dead so I dont really need to stand my ground since everything basically blows up pretty darn fast. But I get what you are saying.
  • #17
    Quote from ruksak

    Now, this is not an indictment on what has become one of the more popular Monk builds. I'm pointing out that the word "skill" is being used in place of "kiting"/avoiding damage by running away, all too often.

    My build....you don't run and scramble to avoid damage. You stand your ground and attack without interruption. I'm only at 160k unbuffed, I sport an over-the-top near 10k armor full-time, 470 AR.......and I still blowup whole mobs/Elite packs on MP 8 without egregious amounts dying (death is very rare in fact).

    I also don't like NdE as a mitigation for X-palm hitting you on Reflect Damage. Serenity, when timed correctly, is the only way to avoid being blown up by your own X-palm. Invis even states explicitly in his SP build thread that a big part of his strategy is to run away when a tagged Elite is about to blow.

    Again, I don't run. I stand my ground, pop serenity and keep swingin.

    I want to be clear. I AM NOT saying my build is better than the SP. I'm saying perhaps similar builds to mine may appeal to some over the SP due to play-style issues, or, if people feel SP is too glassy without high-end gears.

    IMO...SP is a glass Monk build.


    I would have to agree. I find that standing and dealing raw damage is so much quicker/better than kiting all day. I find kiting to be more of a DH skill not a monk skill. For me, I do find myself running still but I play MP10. I can only take so many Plague/Desecrate/Archanes before I just have to move. I just dont have enough dps to always kill things quickly.

    @RukSak

    I also use FoT/Quckining instead of Deadly Reach. What that allows me to do with Cyclone is to Spam my Mantra of Conviction/Cyclone and never run out of Mana. I guess I never looked at Mana cost as I always have had enough Mana for anything. I have tried using something else besides FotT/Quickining but my mana always ran out. I never liked not having my mana when needed. I did follow your AS thinking and bumped mine up. I lost about 4k dps but it actually has increased my damage and survivability tanking Elites by 3 to 4 more secods Id say. Im sitting at round 2.71 buffed currently.
  • #18
    Quote from GangusKahn

    I would have to agree. I find that standing and dealing raw damage is so much quicker/better than kiting all day. I find kiting to be more of a DH skill not a monk skill. For me, I do find myself running still but I play MP10. I can only take so many Plague/Desecrate/Archanes before I just have to move. I just dont have enough dps to always kill things quickly.

    @RukSak

    I also use FoT/Quckining instead of Deadly Reach. What that allows me to do with Cyclone is to Spam my Mantra of Conviction/Cyclone and never run out of Mana. I guess I never looked at Mana cost as I always have had enough Mana for anything. I have tried using something else besides FotT/Quickining but my mana always ran out. I never liked not having my mana when needed. I did follow your AS thinking and bumped mine up. I lost about 4k dps but it actually has increased my damage and survivability tanking Elites by 3 to 4 more secods Id say. Im sitting at round 2.71 buffed currently.


    I do have to move sometimes in those impossible situations. Such as Hordes with arcane/frozen ~ When you have an arcane bulb popping up under your feet every few seconds, there isn't a resistance or armor high enough to mitigate it.

    Really the only big drawback of my build is killing Goblins on high MP. I can't stay on 'em like I can with Thunderclap, so MP8+ ....those little shits tend to get away from me if I make even 1 mistake in approaching them.

    As for attack speed, I have a few slots that should have IAS but do not. I'm targeting those areas for an upgrade but I'm careful in doing so until the itemization change. To give me a higher base APS rating, I focused on using fast base-speed weapons.

    I ditched Echoing Fury after many months and I couldn't be happier. The fear effect betrays any X-palm builds strategy. I got so sick of watching an Elite that was about to blow, just go run off to harmlessly explode in the corner somewhere.

    So I sold my EF for 125m and just went with dual pig-stickers. As Diavolo said above, many players are becoming disenchanted with EF while using certain builds.


    Nothing godly ...but having high base weapon speed really helps with the IAS issue. Losing EF cost me a nominal amount of speed, but again, time-lost causes your DPS to appear lower than it is (as you're losing "seconds" running around/kiting/chasing "feared" enemies). I was losing tons of time chasing Elites down that were running away from the fear effect, as well, having them bolt out of the pack when they're about to pop from X-palm.

    I think of 'time' (spent in combat) as being a hidden factor in this whole DPS thing. My average attack speed between my main and off-hand is about the same as my average attack speed with a dagger + EF, due to EF having a slower base speed.
    BurningRope#1322
  • #19
    So confetti, any updates?
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