[Guide] Affix Based Itemization for the End Game

  • #1
    ==========Affix Based Armor Itemization Guide==========
    What I'm about to post is common knowledge to seasoned monks.
    The idea is that when you reach the end game, it becomes less a matter of cost effectiveness and more a matter of which specific combination of affixes is ideal, and knowing when to use what legendary, or what rares.

    Hopefully end gamers will find the following list a nice database of max affixes and mid tier gamers will find some useful information in here anyways.
    Only doing armor for now.

    ==========Table of Contents==========
    1) List of Affixes, and when they are good or better.
    2) List of Maximum Affixes by slot.
    3) Legendaries & Rares, When To Use What

    1) List of Affixes, and when they are good or better.
    Resist All, Resist Element, Bonus Armor
    Up to 397 bonus armor is available on shields, chests, pants, and helmets.
    Up to 265 bonus armor is available on every other remaining armor slot.
    Up to 80 Resist All is available on all armor slots.
    Up to 60 Resist Element is available on all armor slots.

    Fire resistance is notable for giving players access to cindercoat and fire walkers.
    Both are nice items for mid tier monks
    End game monks may regret picking fire resist due to the cost.
    Both physical and fire resistance are nice if you share gear with a Demon Hunter.

    Poison resistance is nice for Andariel's Visage.

    If you don't intend to ever use any of those legendaries listed above, I recommend getting lightning, arcane, or cold resistance.

    Critical Hit Chance
    Up to 10% Crit Chance is available on Amulets and Gloves
    Up to 6% Crit Chance is available on Helmets, Rings, and Bracers
    For thunderclap/cyclone builds, crit chance is slightly better than your paper doll indicates.
    Because it both increases the damage per cyclone as well as the number of cyclones.

    Maxed crit chance is generally essential to any end game monk build.

    Crit Damage
    Up to 100% Crit Damage is available on Weapons and Amulets
    Up to 50% Crit Damage is available on Gloves and Rings

    The value of crit damage varies greatly depending on your setup.
    Sword and board monks tend to have exceptionally low crit damage so crit damage becomes essential on gloves and jewelry.
    If you're a dual wield or skorn monk, you'll generally value 5-6% crit damage at 1% DPS.

    I would only recommend getting crit damage on jewelry or gloves if it's cost effective.

    Increased Attack Speed (Armor)
    Up to 9% IAS is available on Gloves, Rings and Amulets

    IAS has linear scaling.
    IE if I have 36% IAS already, an additional 9% ias will only give me 6.6% DPS
    Always remember that IAS also boosts spirit generation.
    Weigh whether or not you think you have enough spirit generation when looking into more IAS.

    Increased Attack Speed (Weapon)
    Up to 11% IAS is available on weapons
    Up to 20% IAS is available on balanced white weapons.

    Weapon IAS works differently from Armor IAS.
    It does not suffer from the linear scaling of Armor IAS.
    But it only affects one weapon when dual wielding.
    Additionally, weapon IAS is already factored into a weapon's DPS number.
    But there are many more valuable enchantments on weapons than IAS.
    So Weapon IAS is generally considered a waste of an affix slot.

    Added Elemental Damage
    Only Available on Legendaries

    Only affects physical DPS, not elemental weapons.
    This damage is factored into you inventory DPS number.

    Added cold damage can slow/chill enemies you attack.
    However, elemental skills such as Thunderclap and Sweeping Wind/Cyclone override the element of added elemental damage enchantments.
    Added Cold Damage armor and jewelry will still boost your DPS, but will not apply cold debuff when using Thunderclap or Sweeping Wind/Cyclone.
    But cold damage will apply cold debuff if you use a non-elemental skill such as deadly reach.

    Elemental Skill Bonus
    The most notable elemental skill bonus is added lightning damage on Won Khim Lau.
    With the thunderclap/cyclone build, it can be thought of as a boost to your overall DPS.

    Bonus to Skills
    Up to 14% Fist of Thunder and Sweeping Wind available on helmets.

    For the typical thunderclap/cyclone build, FoT and SW are both about half of your DPS.
    Naturally FoT is slightly better for single targets, and sweeping wind for AoE.
    I generally prefer sweeping wind because I feel thunderclap/cyclone lacks AoE DPS.
    But you can value both 14% FoT and 14% SW bonus at about 7% bonus damage.

    Added Physical Damage (Jewelry)
    Up to 36-108 Physical Damage is available on Rings and Amulets
    Up to 36 Minimum Physical Damage is available on Rings and Amulets
    Up to 35 Maximum Physical Damage is available on Rings and Amulets
    The 3 affixes listed above are independent, and each consume a random enchantment.
    If a ring rolls both combined physical damage along with min/max physical damage, the min/max physical damage affixes will not be displayed.

    36-108 physical damage is 72 average damage. Double Physical is what you want to look for.
    36 min physical damage is 18 average damage. (AH is wrong on this one, so be careful)
    35 max physical damage is 17.5 average damage

    Dual wield monks will find that 1 average damage is about equal to 1% crit damage.
    2H monks will not find average physical damage enchantments worthwhile
    Sword & board monks will generally value crit damage over average damage, but it's still good.

    Dexterity & Vitality
    Up to 150 Dex & Vit roll in an enchantment on Amulets, Weapons, and Shields
    Up to 100 Dex & Vit roll in an enchantment on all other items
    Up to 200 Dex roll in an enchantment on Amulets, Weapons, Gloves, Boots, and Shields
    Up to 100 Dex can roll in an enchantment on all other items
    Up to 200 Vit can roll in an enchantment on Amulets, Weapons, Chests, Pants, and Shields
    Up to 100 Vit can roll in an enchantment on all other items

    Any time you can get 200 total dex/vit for only 1 enchantment slot, it's very good.
    This is one of the best and must have enchantments on armor.
    It's also very good on weapons and jewelry, but not a must have.

    Rolling only 100 total dex/vit for a single enchantment slot is not a great deal, and should only be considered if there are no other significant enchantments available.

    Resistances and Armor
    Up to 80 Resist All rolls in an enchantment on any armor
    Up to 60 Resist All rolls in an enchantment on any armor
    Up to 397 Bonus Armor rolls in an enchantment on Helms, Chests, Pants, and Shields
    Up to 265 Bonus Armor rolls in an enchantment on all other armor and jewelry

    Resistances and armor scale linearly with EHP.
    Resistance scales with an offset of 315, armor scales with an offset of 3150 on MP1+
    So if you have 700 resistance, your EHP is proportional to 700+315 = 1015.
    If you have 200 resistance, your EHP is proportional to 200+315 = 515.
    So 700 resistance is about double the EHP of 200 resistance.
    Same idea goes for 7000 armor and 2000 armor.

    Life per Spirit Spent, Health from Globe, Life Regen
    Up to 63.9 Life per Spirit Spent rolls in an enchantment on Weapons and Helmets
    Up to 599 Life Regen rolls in an enchantment on Chests and Amulets
    Up to 342 Life Regen rolls in an enchantment on any other armor slot
    Up to 12794 Life from Globes/Potions rolls in an enchantment on any armor slot

    Life per Spirit Spent is by far the most powerful passive healing enchantment.
    It's typical for a dual wield monk to generate 15-20 spirit per second.
    That's equivalent to 1000-1250 life per second.
    Unfortunately, since it's only available on helmets and weapons, it's not commonly used.
    12794 Life from Globes/Potions is worth over 425 life per second, just from potions alone.
    You can generally assume a 10k+ life from globe enchantment is better than life regen.
    There are 2 types of health globes, small ones heal 15% of your life, big ones heal 35%.
    Life regen is not an enchantment I would recommend considering except on chest armor.

    Lifesteal, Life on Hit, Life on Kill
    Up to 3.00% Lifesteal rolls in an enchantment on Weapons
    Up to 959 Life on Hit rolls in an enchantment on Weapons and Amulets
    Up to 479 Life on Hit rolls in an enchantment on Rings
    Up to 2878 Life on Kill rolls in an enchantment on Weapons and Amulets
    Up to 1439 Life on Kill rolls in an enchantment on Rings

    A lot of monks ask questions like "at what DPS is lifesteal better than LoH"
    And the answer just isn't simple. It depends on your attack speed, crit chance, & other stuff.
    I recommend you build your own calculator, or use this one:
    https://docs.google....FJS2Y0Z3c#gid=0

    I will always prefer lifesteal because it scales better with the end game and because it continues to heals me when I'm CC'd by effects like knockback, fear, freeze, etc. thanks to stray cyclones.

    Life on kill is very underrated, and is the best option for tempest rush farming builds.

    Spirit Regeneration
    Up to 2.50 rolls on Weapons and Spirit Stones.

    I personally think this is a must have enchantment for farming.
    It is the best way to feed utility skills such as cyclone strike and tempest rush.
    The alternative to spirit regen would be to get more DPS, but that doesn't have great returns.
    You can get a lot of DPS, and crank up the MP, but you don't really farm that much faster because enemies just gain so much health.
    Spirit regen on the other hand, allows you to farm lower MP's much much more efficiently.
    Even with ridiculous DPS, you will be hard pressed to farm over 50m paragon xp/hr.
    But a good tempest rush setup on Act 3 MP0 will net you over 80m paragon xp/hr.

    Reduction vs Elites, Ranged, and Melee
    Up to 7% Reduction vs Elites rolls in an enchantment on Chests
    Up to 6% Reduction vs Ranged rolls in an enchantment on Chests, Amulets, and Bracers.
    Up to 6% Reduction vs Melee rolls in an enchantment on Chests, Amulets, and Bracers.

    Keep in mind that for a typical monk with 700 total resistance, 60 resistance is worth about 6% reduction from all damage.
    So you can value 6-7% reduction at 30-40 resistance.

    Life %
    Up to 16% Life rolls in an enchantment on Amulets and Shields
    Up to 12% Life rolls in an enchantment on Shoulders, Belts, Helms and Chests

    Life % has linear scaling, so its usefulness changes a lot depending on how much you have.
    It's a nice enchantment to round out item slots without many other useful enchantments.
    Namely if you're going after rare shoulders or belts

    Magic Find & Gold Find
    Up to 45% Magic Find rolls on Amulets
    Up to 20% Magic Find rolls on any other armor slot
    Up to 50% Gold Find rolls on Amulets
    Up to 25% Gold Find rolls on any other armor slot

    I personally don't consider these enchantments.
    But you can generally assume that magic find boosts your income rate almost linearly.
    So if you already have 450% MF, I would value an extra 45% MF at slightly less than a 10% boost to your farming income rate.

    2) List of Maximum Affixes by slot.
    Rare Helmets/Spirit Stones
    - 6% Crit Chance
    - 14% Sweeping Wind/Fist of Thunder
    - 5 Cyclone Strike Cost Reduction
    - 100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    - 100 Dexterity
    - 100 Vitality
    - 1 Helmet Socket
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 397 Bonus Armor
    - 12% Life
    - 63.9 Life Per Spirit Spent
    - 2.50 Spirit Regeneration
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 392 Life Regen
    - 20% Magic Find
    - 25% Gold Find
    - 5.1% Chance to Fear on Hit
    - 14% Crowd Control Reduction

    The socket is mandatory for paragon leveling.
    IMO it's optional once you reach 100 paragon.
    6% Crit Chance is critical to your DPS.
    IMO, 2.50 Spirit Regeneration is critical to farming efficiently.
    the double attribute enchantment is solid, but the single attribute enchantments are not.
    So I would not want a rare spirit stone with more than 100 dexterity or 100 vitality.

    The following enchantments are must haves for an end game rare spirit stone:
    6% Crit Chance
    2.50 Spirit Regeneration for farming
    1 Socket if not 100 Paragon

    The following enchantments are very good for an end game rare spirit stone:
    14% Sweeping Wind/Fist of Thunder
    80 Resist All
    100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    1 Socket even if 100 Paragon

    The remaining slots should be filled with the following enchantments:
    100 Dexterity
    100 Vitality
    60 Resist Element
    397 Bonus Armor
    63.9 Life per Spirit Spent
    12% Life

    Rare Shoulders/Belts
    - 100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    - 100 Dexterity
    - 100 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 265 Bonus Armor
    - 12% Life
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 392 Life Regen
    - 20% Magic Find
    - 25% Gold Find
    - 5.1% Chance to Chill/Freeze on Hit

    Rare shoulders and belts lack any notable enchantments for Monks.
    As such they are nice ways to boost your EHP.

    The following enchantments are must haves for an end game rare shoulder:
    80 Resist All
    60 Resist Element
    100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    100 Dexterity

    The remaining slots should be filled with the following enchantments:
    100 Vitality
    265 Bonus Armor
    12% Life
    12794 Health from Globes and Potions

    Rare Bracers
    - 6% Crit Chance
    - 100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    - 100 Dexterity
    - 100 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 265 Bonus Armor
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 392 Life Regen
    - 6% Ranged Reduction
    - 6% Melee Reduction
    - 20% Magic Find
    - 25% Gold Find
    - 5.1% Chance to Knockback on Hit

    Aside from 6% crit chance, rare bracers lack notable enchantments.
    So after you get 6% crit chance, they are a nice slot to boost your survivability.

    The following enchantments are must haves for an end game rare Bracer:
    6% Crit Chance
    80 Resist All
    60 Resist Element
    100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality

    The remaining slots should be filled with the following enchantments:
    100 Dexterity
    100 Vitality
    265 Bonus Armor
    6% Ranged Reduction
    6% Melee Reduction
    12794 Health from Globes and Potions

    Rare Gloves
    - 10% Crit Chance
    - 9% Increased Attack Speed
    - 50% Crit Damage
    - 100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    - 200 Dexterity
    - 100 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 265 Bonus Armor
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 392 Life Regen
    - 20% Magic Find
    - 25% Gold Find
    - 5.1% Chance to Stun on Hit

    Since gloves have so many useful enchantments, it can be very expensive to get trifectas, let alone gloves with 5-6 good enchantments.

    10% Crit Chance is by far the most useful enchantment for monks, and is a must have.
    9% IAS and 50% Crit damage are next, but you'll often be forced to pick one or the other.
    Unless you're a shield monk, IAS is generally the superior option, by a small margin.
    200 Dexterity, 100 Dex & 100 vit, Resistances are what I recommend looking for next.

    I'd say the perfect rare gloves would roll:
    10% Crit Chance
    9% IAS
    50% Crit Damage
    300 Dexterity
    100 Vitality
    80 Resist All

    Rare Chest Armor
    - 3 Armor Sockets
    - 100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    - 100 Dexterity
    - 200 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 397 Bonus Armor
    - 12% Life
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 599 Life Regen
    - 20% Magic Find
    - 25% Gold Find
    - 7% Reduction from Elites
    - 6% Reduction from Ranged
    - 6% Reduction from Melee

    Chest armor is notable for its 3 armor sockets and 200 vitality enchantment.

    You'll want to aim for the following affixes on an end game rare chest:
    3 Armor Sockets
    200 Vitality
    100 Dexterity & Vitality
    80 Resist All
    60 Resist Element

    The following enchantments are nice for rounding out a rare chest:
    396 Bonus Armor
    100 Dexterity
    12% Life
    12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    599 Life Regen
    7% Reduction from Elites
    6% Reduction from Ranged
    6% Reduction from Melee

    Rare Pants
    - 2 Armor Sockets
    - 100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    - 100 Dexterity
    - 200 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 397 Bonus Armor
    - 12% Life
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 392 Life Regen
    - 20% Magic Find
    - 25% Gold Find
    - 5.1% Chance to Slow Enemies

    Pants are notable for their 2 armor sockets and 200 vitality enchantment.

    I don't think sockets are essential on pants since you only get 2.
    Sockets are only great if you want extra dex for DPS, but at that innas temperance is better.

    You'll want to aim for the following affixes on an end game rare pants:
    100 Dexterity & Vitality
    200 Vitality
    80 Resist All
    60 Resist Element

    The following enchantments are a nice way to round out a nice pair of rare pants:
    2 Armor Sockets
    100 Dexterity
    12% Life
    12794 Health from Globe and Potions
    397 Bonus Armor

    Rare Boots
    - 12% Movement Speed
    - 100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    - 200 Dexterity
    - 100 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 265 Bonus Armor
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 392 Life Regen
    - 20% Magic Find
    - 25% Gold Find
    - 5.1% Chance to Immobilize on Hit

    Rare boots are notable, obviously for having 12% movement speed.

    The following enchantments are must haves for an end game rare boots:
    12% Movement Speed
    200 Dexterity
    100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    80 Resist All
    60 Resist Element

    The following enchantments are nice ways to round out a pair of rare boots:
    265 Bonus Armor
    12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    100 Vitality

    Rare Shields
    - 1 Armor Socket
    - 10% Crit Chance
    - 150 Dexterity & 150 Vitality
    - 200 Dexterity
    - 200 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 397 Bonus Armor
    - 16% Life
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 599 Life Regen
    - 20% Magic Find
    - 25% Gold Find
    - 7% Reduction from Elites
    - 6% Reduction from Ranged
    - 6% Reduction from Melee
    - 8% Lashing Tail Kick, Tempest Rush, Wave of Light Crit Chance
    - 9% Chance to Block

    Shields have some of the best enchantments in the game.
    Unfortunately it's usually outweighed by LS and crit damage from an offhander.
    Regardless, shields can roll some pretty beastly stats

    The following enchantments are must haves for an end game rare shield:
    10% Crit Chance
    150 Dexterity & 150 Vitality
    200 Dexterity
    200 Vitality
    80 Resist All

    The last slot should ideally go to 60 resist element, 16% life, or a monk skill bonus.
    But there are plenty of other solid enchantments available as well.

    Rare Amulets
    - 1 Armor Socket
    - 10% Crit Chance
    - 100% Crit Damage
    - 9% Increased Attack Speed
    - 2878 Life on Kill
    - 959 Life on Hit
    - 36-106 Physical Damage
    - 36 Minimum Physical Damage
    - 35 Maximum Physical Damage
    - 150 Dexterity & 150 Vitality
    - 200 Dexterity
    - 200 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 397 Bonus Armor
    - 16% Life
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 599 Life Regen
    - 45% Magic Find
    - 50% Gold Find
    - 14% Crowd Control Reduction
    - 5.1% Chance to Blind on Hit

    With rare amulets, there's almost no way you'll get all the enchantments you want.
    But I'll do my best to rank them from best to worst.

    10% Crit Chance and 100% Crit Damage are the best by a large margin.
    959 Life on Hit is amazing but skippable since you can get healing from other slots.
    9% IAS following that.
    36-106 Physical damage and 150 Dex & 150 Vit are amazing, but rarely roll near maxed.
    200 Dex, 200 Vit, Resistances, and even bonus armor are worth considering after that.

    IMO the perfect rare amulet would roll the following:
    10% Crit Chance
    100% Crit Damage
    9% IAS
    959 Life on Hit
    36-106 Physical Damage
    150 Dexterity
    150 Vitality

    Rare Rings
    - 1 Armor Socket
    - 6% Crit Chance
    - 50% Crit Damage
    - 9% Increased Attack Speed
    - 1439 Life on Kill
    - 479 Life on Hit
    - 36-106 Physical Damage
    - 36 Minimum Physical Damage
    - 35 Maximum Physical Damage
    - 100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    - 100 Dexterity
    - 100 Vitality
    - 80 Resist All
    - 60 Resist Element
    - 265 Bonus Armor
    - 12% Life
    - 12794 Health from Globes and Potions
    - 392 Life Regen
    - 25% Magic Find
    - 20% Gold Find
    - 14% Crowd Control Reduction

    Many enchantments on rings are roughly half their counterpart on Amulets
    A few aren't, and these are particularly potent.

    36-106 Physical Damage, 6% Crit Chance, and 9% IAS are the best enchantments.
    It will be fairly hard to get all 3 of them.

    IMO the perfect rare ring would roll the following:
    6% Crit Chance
    9% IAS
    36-106 Physical Damage
    50% Crit Damage
    479 Life on Hit
    100 Dexterity
    100 Vitality

    Rare Weapons
    - 316-725 Elemental Damage
    - 201-457 Cold Damage
    - 50% Damage
    - ??? Min/Max Damage (Varies between weapon types)
    - 100% Critical Hit Damage (200% 2H)
    - 959 Life on Hit (1918 2H)
    - 2878 Life on Kill (5756 2H)
    - 3.00% Lifesteal (6.00% 2H)
    - 1 Weapon Socket
    - 63.9 Life per Spirit Spent
    - 11% IAS
    - 8% Wave of Light/Tempest Rush Crit Chance
    - 5 Lashing Tail Kick Cost Reduction
    - 8% Bonus vs Elites
    - 2.50 Spirit Regeneration


    Everybody wants lifesteal, crit damage, socket, and high base damage on weapons.
    But that alone already costs 6 enchantment slots.

    These are the 5 highly must have enchantments for an end game rare weapon:
    Min/Max Damage (or Elemental Damage, but min/max can roll higher)
    50% Damage
    100% Critical Hit Damage
    3.00% Lifesteal
    1 Weapon Socket

    Chances are, you're not going to find a weapon with 6 good affixes.
    And if you do, it's going to be extremely expensive.
    Personally, I would like a rare weapon with 2.50 Spirit regen in the 6th slot for farming.
    959 Life on Hit is obviously the best option for tanking.
    150 Dex/Vit, 11% IAS, and 200 Dex provide a marginal benefit to your DPS.
    But personally I don't search for attributes on weapons.

    3) Legendaries & Rares, When To Use What
    ===== Helmets =====
    Mempo of Twilight
    Only Mempo's of Twilight with Crit Chance are worth considering.
    I would even go further to say that only 6% CC Mempos are worth considering.
    Remember that 1% CC is a lot more valuable than 1% IAS afterall.
    a 3% CC mempo probably isn't better than a 6% CC helmet with high dex.

    Inna's Radiance
    Inna's Radiance has 2 random enchantment slots that can roll very good affixes.
    The best ones are:
    80 Resist All
    2.50 Spirit Regeneration
    14% Sweeping Wind/Fist of Thunder Skill Bonus

    The following enchantments are also worth considering:
    60 Resist Element
    397 Bonus Armor
    63.9 Life Per Spirit Spent

    An Inna's radiance with high rolls, all resist, and 14% skill bonus is effectively just as good as a 6% CC Mempo of Twilight in terms of both Defense and Offense.
    The difference is 14% skill bonus does not provide you extra IAS.
    On the other hand, Inna's Radiance helps contribute a set bonus, whereas Mempo does not.
    That combined with the fact that Inna's Radiance is cheaper and has more flexibility with enchantments (IE Access to Spirit Regeneration), I would say that Inna's Radiance is the better option for monks.

    Madstone
    Only Madstones with Crit Chance are worth considering.
    Like with mempos, I would only recommend madstones with 6% CC.

    You can't roll a socket with the Crit Chance, so Madstone is not viable for paragon leveling.
    So when would you want to use a Madstone over an Inna's Radiance?
    Madstone is capable of rolling All Resist, Spirit Regen, and Skill Bonus at the same time.
    Inna's Radiance cannot do this.
    But it loses out on up to 100 dex & vit, a socket, and a set bonus in exchange for this.
    So the only time you will want a bonus is when you need spirit regen, skill bonus, and wouldn't mind some extra defense over an inna's radiance.

    Natalya's Sight
    The only reason you'd want to use a Natalya's Sight is for the set bonus.
    But keep in mind that natalya's sight will generally have much less dex than a mempo or Inna's Radiance.
    This combined with the fact that a Natalya's Sight won't have skill Bonus or IAS means this is not a helmet monks will need to consider.

    Andariel's Visage
    Andariel's Visage is like a poor man's Mempo of Twilight.
    Overall a weaker helmet than a well rolled Inna's Radiance.
    But a solid option for mid game poison resist monks

    Archon Crowns and Star Crowns
    In theory, a star crown can roll the same stats as an Inna's Radiance, but with less armor.
    But the number of good enchantments that need to roll simultaneously for this to happen is extremely high, and you'll essentially never see a rare helmet ever roll good enough to be end game material.
    And even if it did, it's still missing out on the set bonus
    But I suppose keeping an open mind doesn't hurt.

    ===== Shoulders =====
    Vile Ward
    As the only legendary shoulder to roll i63 affixes, it's the only one worth noting.
    Since vile ward rolls 170-200 dex with its single stat enchantment instead of up to 100, it can get up to 300 dex whereas rare shoulders cap at 200 max total dex.
    This combined with its all resistance affix makes this the best shoulders in the game.

    Since good enchantments are much more expensive on legendaries, you may consider picking up pickup radius or health from globe on your shoulders instead of on your rares to save yourself some money.

    Archon Spaulders
    So when would you actually want to use Archon Shoulders over Vile Wards in the end game?
    The only reason I can think of is for stacking lots and lots of defensive enchantments.

    ===== Chest Armor =====
    Tyrael's Might
    Think of Tyrael's Might as a Glass Cannon chest piece with movement speed bonus.
    Rare chests can only roll up to 200 dex. Tyrael's might comes with 170-200 by default.
    And it has bonus vs demons and elites ontop of that.
    However, you lose out on a lot of vitality.
    Remember that rare chests can roll up to 300 total vitality.
    If you are bent on getting a tyrael's might, remember that chest armor rolls with numerous useful enchantments that are not limited to 3 sockets.
    a 200 vit enchantment, or a 100 Dex and 100 Vit enchantment is potentially better than 3 sockets.

    Cindercoat
    Cindercoat is notable for being able to roll up to 229 dex and 120 fire resistance.
    Remember that rare chests only roll up to 200 dex.
    While 120 fire resistance is nice, it's not actually an ideal use of an enchantment.
    The cindercoat rolls 51-60 fire resist by default. Rolling over 60 costs an enchantment slot.
    Instead the perfect cindercoat for a fire monk would have these stats:

    60 Fire Resist
    50 Resist All
    5% Life
    2908 Thorns
    229 Dexterity
    300 Vitality
    3 Sockets

    However, keep in mind that the cindercoat will still have less base armor than archon armor.
    My point is that for fire monks, the cindercoat can rarely roll on par with BIS chest pieces.

    Inna's Vast Expanse
    Do you remember the list of most desirable enchantments for chest armor?
    Inna's Vast Expanse doesn't actually roll many of them.
    It has the 100 dex & vit enchantment as well as the 3 sockets enchantment.
    But it uses 3 more affixes on life %, reduced damage from melee, and 100 Dexterity.
    While none of these are horrible enchantments, rare chests can in fact roll better.
    On the other hand, this limitation is offset by the set bonus.

    The Vast Expanse is worth considering if you want high dexterity or the set bonus.
    If not, get a BIS rare chest or a surcoat.

    Blackthorne's Surcoat
    Unlike Inna's Vast Expanse which wastes 3 affixes on sub par enchantments, the surcoat only wastes 1 on reduction from ranged damage.
    So you're much less likely to see a rare chest with a better roll than a BIS surcoat, than you are with a rare chest and a BIS Vast Expanse.

    So unlike Vast Expanse, the Surcoat is a solid standalone end game chest piece.
    In the worst case scenario, it's not worse than a perfect rare chest by more than 1 affix.
    And in that case, you can argue the set bonus compensates for that discrepancy.

    Tal Rasha's Relentless Pursuit
    I've seen a few monks use this for the IAS.
    So it's decent if you want to exchange lots of defense for a tiny bit of DPS.
    Tyrael's is better for that purpose, but I suppose tal rasha's is cheaper.

    Archon Armor
    So when do you want to use Archon Armor over other Legendaries?
    Well you want Tyrael's or Tal Rasha's for glass Cannon Builds.
    You'll want Inna's Expanse for the inna's set bonus.
    And BIS Surcoat will end up rolling very similarly to BIS Archon Armor.

    Which makes Archon Armor viable in the end game as a well rounded chest piece.

    ===== Bracers =====
    Lacuni Prowlers
    Lacuni's are glass cannon bracers.
    Their unique combination of enchantments and the fact they have 3 random enchantment rolls means that getting one that actually boosts your DPS substantially will cost you a fortune.
    In theory, lacuni's could roll 6% crit chance, 80 Resist All, 100 Dex, and 100 Vit.
    Compared to a perfectly rolled razorspike, you're essentially exchanging something along the lines of 60 resistance, 100 dexterity, and 100 vitality for 9% IAS, 12% MS, and thorns.
    But I've never seen lacuni prowlers that perfect, so it's not a realistic situation.

    The only time I'd recommend lacunis is if you intend to capitalize on the extra movement speed somehow by getting blackthorne's jousting pants instead of Inna's Temperance or Ice Climbers without movement speed.

    Strongarm Bracers
    Notable for being the only bracers in the game that can roll 269 Dex.
    Otherwise these bracers are not end game material.

    Razorspikes
    Lacunis are glass cannon bracers, Strongarm Bracers suck, so Razorspikes fill all the other remaining niches.
    There are many ways a Razorspike can roll BIS.
    But everybody will agree that you will always want the 4 following enchantments:
    6% Crit Chance
    80 Resist All
    60 Resist Element
    100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality

    Most monks will want their remaining 2 enchantment slots to roll 100 Dex & 100 Vit.
    I'm personally not a fan of wasting a slot on 100 vitality.
    I'd personally prefer the last 2 slots roll 100 Dex and 12794 Bonus to Globes.
    But to each their own.

    ===== Gloves =====
    Tasker And Theo
    It's worth noting that Tasker and Theo can roll up to 350 Dex + a Socket.
    But you won't be able to get any crit damage or crit chance if you do roll that much dex.
    These gloves really aren't worth noting.

    Sage's Gesture
    These gloves are craftable, so they only roll i62 affixes.
    They can roll decently, but rare gloves have better potential.

    Archon Gauntlets
    Rare Gauntlets are basically the only way to go for gloves.
    I don't think anybody needed me to tell them that.

    ===== Belts =====
    Witching Hour
    A popular choice for glass cannon monks.
    But in reality, only 1 affix slot is wasted (90-100 Dexterity)
    And it's easily argued that this is an extremely small price to pay for IAS and Crit Damage.
    If rolled perfectly, a witching hour is by far the best belt in the game, no contest at all.
    Even if it doesn't roll perfectly, sword and board monks will want it for the crit damage.
    And 2H monks will want it for the IAS.
    But since the witching hour has 3 random slots and is in high demand, getting a perfectly rolled witching hour is almost completely out of reach, even for the richest players.

    Hellcat Waistguard
    Worth noting that the hellcat is able to roll up to 249 Dex.
    It's not a horrible belt, not great either.
    It's designed for bonus vs elites and high dex, but blackthorne's notched belt fills that roll more adequately than the Hellcat Waistguard.

    Inna's Favor
    You can think of Inna's Favor as a Poor Man's Witching Hour.
    It can compete with a poorly rolled witching hour, but not a BIS one.
    Other than that it's useful for completing the Inna's Set Bonus.
    Otherwise, it's just another glass cannon legendary that sacrifices tons of defense.
    And not a particularly good one at that.

    Blackthorne's Notched Belt
    It's worth noting that Blackthorne's Notched Belt is able to roll up to 300 Dex.
    The belt has 3 sub optimal affixes, but it gains access to the 170-200 dex affix which is usually reserved for gloves and boots.
    The 100 vit and bonus vs elites from the set bonus are actually extremely good for ubers.
    In the case of ubers, 3-4 set Blackthornes is BIS, even over witching hour IMO.

    Overall Blackthorne's is straddling a Fence.
    It's slightly better DPS than rare belts, but not much better.
    It's also slightly worse defense than rare belts, but not much worse.

    High Scabbard
    Of the 4 legendaries listed above, all of them are offensively oriented.
    Meaning that if you intend to use a rare belt in the end game, it's going to be because you want either a well rounded belt or a defensively oriented one.

    ===== Pants =====
    Depth Diggers
    2 affixes are wasted on magic and gold find.
    In exchange however, you gain access to the 170-200 Dex affix that is usually reserved for gloves and boots.
    Thus these pants are able to roll up to 300 Dexterity.
    While they aren't horrible compared to rare pants, Inna's Temperance and Blackthorne's Jousting Pants are simply so much better than rare pants that Depth Diggers aren't worth considering as a result.

    Inna's Temperance
    Glass Cannon pants, and damn good ones at that.
    I think the community understands the roll of Inna's Temperance, so i won't elaborate.

    There are many ways good ways for Inna's Temperance to roll it's only random enchantment.
    The best option for sustain is obviously 80 resistance.
    397 Bonus armor is also good for sustain if you are running a no STI high resist build.
    200 Vitality is another option for defense, but it won't improve your sustain.
    Finally, 100 Dex & 100 Vit is best for offense, but is also well rounded.

    Blackthorne's Jousting Pants
    Since Blackthorne's comes with a quadruple attribute roll, it can actually roll up to 400 vitality and 200 dexterity at the same time OR 300 dexterity and 200 Vitality at the same time.
    These pants are by far the best tank pants in the game, and there are many good ways for it to roll.
    Here are the best enchantments to look out for:
    80 Resist All
    100 Dexterity & 100 Vitality
    200 Vitality

    If there aren't available or are too expensive, you may consider the following:
    60 Resist Element
    2 Sockets
    397 Bonus Armor

    Notice how I put 2 sockets as an alternative option.
    The best Blackthorne's Jousting Pants will never roll sockets.

    Archon Faulds
    Completely outclassed by Blackthorne's and Inna's Temperance
    Only consider them for early to early mid game monks, and only if it's cost effective.

    ===== Boots =====
    Ice Climbers
    Ice Climbers roll 8 Affixes.
    eight
    EIGHT
    Did that sink in yet?
    6 Affix rare boots have got nothing on that.
    Ice Climbers are BIS if you want a well rounded boot or a tanky one.
    The only reason they have any competition is the 7% CC bonus on Natalya's Set.

    Firewalkers
    These actually cap at 269 Dex instead of 300 like most boots
    Even the best firewalkers will only be as good as mediocre rare boots.
    Nevermind ice climbers or natalya's.
    PS: The molten enchantment lets you break wooden doors by walking through them. Cool? :P

    Zunimassa's Trail
    Notable for the added elemental damage.
    Legacy Zunimassa's come with IAS and slightly lower elemental damage.
    They are notable for being glass cannon boots for monks.
    But ultimately they are outclassed by the Natalya's Set when it comes to offense.

    Natalya's Bloody Footprints
    The base enchantments on Natalya's are fairly good, but not godly.
    You would only use these boots for the 7% crit chance from the 2 piece set bonus.
    The DPS from 7% crit chance is so huge, most people consider these boots to be BIS over ice climbers, with their whopping 8 affixes.

    ===== Amulets =====
    Xephirian Amulet
    This amulet comes with spirit regen, that alone makes it a must have amulet for tempest rush builds.

    Ouroboros
    This used to be a fairly good amulet, but now that rare amulets all roll i63 affixes, it's outdated.

    Traveler's Pledge
    Actually a pretty good amulet for followers because of the magic find and Life %
    That's all there is to it though.

    Blackthorne's Duncraig Cross
    The amulet itself has decent rolls. Not great, but decent.
    The LoH is less than optimal, life % is not a great affix, and an affix slot is wasted on bleed.
    But since amulets with more than 3 good enchantments are hard to find and expensive anyways, and because of the set bonus, you can make the argument that the duncraig cross is BIS.

    Rare Amulets
    There aren't any truly amazing rare amulets in the game.
    Duncraig cross is good, but in theory a perfect 6 affix amulet is much better.
    So rare amulets are essentially the only end game amulets.

    ===== Rings =====
    Hellfire Ring
    The hellfire ball spawns behind your fist, so it usually passes through the target you punch.
    And the bonus experience is useless at 100 paragon.
    Ignoring those 2 enchantments, Hellfire ring only has 5 affixes.
    One of them happens to be a 170-200 dex affix that usually isn't available on rare rings.
    But at the end of the day, a rare ring can roll better in theory, than a hellfire ring.
    The only reason you would want a hellfire ring is for the bonus xp.

    Unity
    The crit chance, LoH, and physical damage rolls are not as high as they could be.
    Bonus vs elites is not optimal.
    And the dex roll is slightly higher than what you'd see on a normal ring.
    But the combination of these enchantments make unity popular.
    Even though technically a rare ring could roll substantially higher, with the exception of the dexterity affix.

    Stone of Jordan
    IMO this is the best ring for farming.
    Spirit regen is priceless for mobility and killing quickly.
    Bonus vs elites is BIS for ubers.
    added elemental damage and the ability to roll skill bonuses is good too.
    You will want FoT or Sweeping wind for your general purpose ring.
    Critical Hit Chance for Tempest Rush is must have for tempest rush farming builds.
    Keep in mind that elemental skills such as thunderclap and sweeping wind/cyclone override the element of the added elemental damage.
    Even if you get a cold damage SoJ, you will not cold debuff enemies with thunderclap.
    But if you use deadly reach instead, you will since it's a non-elemental skill.

    Oculus Ring
    High dexterity roll, magic find, and resist all make this a great follower ring.

    Skull Grasp
    Legacy Skull Grasps are inferior versions of unity
    Modern skull grasps aren't very good, but can be used to in weird builds like ones where you try to reduce the cost of lashing tail kick as much as possible.

    Wailing Host
    Basically a Unity Ring without average damage or LoH, and an extra random affix and set bonus.
    All in all, worse than Unity.

    Litany of the Undaunted
    A more defensive version of Unity/Wailing Host, but still not as good as unity.
    The set bonus isn't terribly useful either.

    Natalya's Reflection
    Solid base enchantments and more importantly the 7% crit chance set bonus makes this BIS.
    But you will want one with crit chance on it already, otherwise a rare ring will be comparable.

    Rare Ring
    IMO the best setup for farming and elites is Natalya's Reflection and a SoJ.
    Either way a reflection is generally essential to an end game build.
    The SoJ is much more optional.
    In which case, if you're not going for a SoJ, rare rings are end game

    ===== Weapons =====
    Most Legendary Weapons have 7 affixes.
    But since few legendary weapons have 7 perfect affixes, rare weapons still compete.

    Won Khim Lau
    Its base damage affixes are all i62, which is suboptimal, especially for shield monks
    25% lightning skills damage is worth ~137% Crit Damage for a typical DW monk.
    Due to the low base damage, this is a poor weapon for sword and board.
    Since it can roll crit damage and a socket ontop of lightning skills, it lets you get higher DPS than any rare weapon could. But only if you're willing to sacrifice lifesteal.
    A perfectly rolled rare weapon can compete with a WKL in the end game. But end game WKL's are easier to find on the auction house.
    Low base damage means it synergizes particularly well with average damage jewelry.

    Echoing Fury
    Its base damage affixes are all i62, which is suboptimal
    Fear is very suboptimal for farming on higher MP's
    This is a BIS weapon for hunting ubers.
    Since it can roll crit damage and a socket ontop of +APS, it lets you get higher DPS than any rare weapon could, but only if you're willing to sacrifice lifesteal.
    A perfectly rolled rare weapon can compete with EF in the end game, but end game EF's are easier to find on the auction house.

    Skorn
    Technically a rare 2H axe can roll just like a skorn except for the bleed chance.
    But since nobody loots 2h weapons, you'll pretty much never see a rare weapon that good.
    This makes skorn the only viable option for 2H Builds.
    Lifesteal is by far the best roll for the only random enchantment slot.
    But IAS and more dexterity are also an option if you want marginally better DPS.

    Butcher's Sickle
    The ancient spear effect has a cooldown, so the chance of proc isn't an important roll.
    The base enchantments and damage are i60, which is really bad.
    Rare axes can roll better at a nontrivial rate.
    But it's still an okay option for mid game monks.

    Fist of Az'Turrasq
    High base damage makes this an okay sword and board weapon.
    But you're forced to pick between LS, socket, or crit damage.
    Which is a fatal flaw, and prevents this weapon from being end game material IMO.

    Crystal Fist
    Ignore durability loss is a useless affix.
    And 200 dex/vit is a suboptimal roll on a weapon.

    Shenlong's Set
    Unlike other legendary weapons, shenlongs only have 6 enchantments.
    And the ones on the shenlongs while decent lack what I'm going to call the weapon trifecta:
    which is crit damage, socket, and lifesteal.
    The set bonus simply doesn't compensate for that loss.
    So not end game.

    Rare Weapons
    Skorn dominates the 2H early, mid, AND end game, so I'm not going to talk about 2h's.
    Echoing Fury and WKL can roll higher DPS than rare weapons.
    But in theory, a perfectly rolled rare weapon can be on par with an LS/Socket EF/WKL.
    The chance of seeing such a perfectly rolled rare weapon on the AH however, is small.
  • #2
    Leveling a monk atm. Bookmarking this, thanks.

    1 question though - i know it's an end-game guide so i shouldn't worry about it yet, but I'm curious. In section 3 you describe BiS items per slot and you mention 3 different usable sets, but after reading the whole thing i didn't come to the conclusion what is the best -combination- of items.
    Is it 2xNat (boots+ring) + 2x Inna's (pants+helm) or 2xBT(chest+?) or some other combination :) ? Any 4 set worth it?
  • #3
    Quote from Turtel

    Leveling a monk atm. Bookmarking this, thanks.

    1 question though - i know it's an end-game guide so i shouldn't worry about it yet, but I'm curious. In section 3 you describe BiS items per slot and you mention 3 different usable sets, but after reading the whole thing i didn't come to the conclusion what is the best -combination- of items.
    Is it 2xNat (boots+ring) + 2x Inna's (pants+helm) or 2xBT(chest+?) or some other combination :) ? Any 4 set worth it?

    Well it depends a little from monk to monk.
    But most monks will find the following legendaries to be BIS:
    Nat Ring + Boots
    Innas Helm + Pants
    Stone of Jordan/Hellfire Ring
    Vile Ward

    I wouldn't say blackthorne's is inherently BIS.
    because a bad blackthorne's roll is REALLY REALLY bad.
    and blackthornes basically needs to roll all of its random enchantments perfectly to be a viable end game item.

    whereas if a nat ring rolls a single good stat, like high physical damage, or high crit chance, it's automatically end game material.

    similar logic applies to a witching hour, you need a fairly specific roll with the 3 random enchantments for it to be godly.
    But boy when a witching hour is godly, it's reaaally godly.
  • #4
    This helps alot, did not realize that SoJ's element did not help FoT/SW dmg that much either.
  • #5
    Quote from Wangan

    This helps alot, did not realize that SoJ's element did not help FoT/SW dmg that much either.
    it does help the damage.
    it just doesnt apply debuff if it is cold damage
  • #6
    Thanks for this awesome thread.

    But is Life per Spirit spent really that good? I mean, let's say I refresh my Mantra every 3 seconds. What does a mantra cost? 50 Spirit? With 60 Life per Spirit spent I get 3000 Health every 3 seconds, 1000 hp/s. I get alot more with my combined 2.6 % lifesteal and ~850 LoH on 105k DPS, don't I?
  • #7
    Quote from Leistungstruck

    Thanks for this awesome thread.

    But is Life per Spirit spent really that good? I mean, let's say I refresh my Mantra every 3 seconds. What does a mantra cost? 50 Spirit? With 60 Life per Spirit spent I get 3000 Health every 3 seconds, 1000 hp/s. I get alot more with my combined 2.6 % lifesteal and ~850 LoH on 105k DPS, don't I?
    Life per Spirit Spent is really good compared to life regen and health from globe.
    it's still pretty shoddy compared to lifesteal or loh.
  • #8
    will you add a part about weapons aswell?
  • #9
    Quote from Hoppi

    will you add a part about weapons aswell?
    I feel like everybody already knows what end game weapons are.
    but maybe eventually I'll leave a more in depth version.

    The issue with weapons is that people want sockets, crit damage, lifesteal, and high base DPS.
    and getting all of that already consumes 5 out of your 6 affix slots:

    +elemental Damage
    +50% Damage
    3.00% Lifesteal
    100% Crit Damage
    Socket

    so it's only the 6th slot that's up for debate.
    And that's a trivial debate since the odds of finding a weapon with 6 amazing affixes is already slim to none.
    IMO if I could have any affix I wanted for a 6th affix:
    I'd pick 2.50 Spirit Regeneration or 959 Life on Hit.

    if you want more DPS, the only real options are:
    150 Dex & 150 Vit
    200 Dex
    or 11% IAS

    all of which are fairly trivial bonuses.
  • #10
    I'm in the process of adding a weapon section in real quick

    also fixed a concatenation error at the top of the legendary section.
    accidentally copied some of my heroscore calculator into the guide.
    whoops

    edit: done
  • #11
    nice thread
    heavymetal#1322
    http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
    my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
    http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
  • #12
    Really nice compilation you wrote up there but i wonder what's the typical DW monk you're refering to?

    Eg on WKL:
    25% lightning skills damage is worth ~137% Crit Damage for a typical DW monk.

    On Mempo:
    Interesting statement considering hat any Mempo will have high amount of all resist while most of Inna's helmet can barely offer mediocre single resist. Rolling with double resist it's quite an impressive helmet compared to the average Inna's helmet you can find and not much more expensive. Especially for someone who's after Inna's pants & Witching Hour, already trading lots of defense potential for some offense. But your guide clearly states "for the end game" so it's only fair to only look for 'best in slot' i guess :) Another big downside on that helmet is the style, instead of an tiara (d2 style) it's an ugly helmet.

    On the weapon affix' part:
    These are the 5 highly must have enchantments for an end game rare weapon:
    Min/Max Damage (or Elemental Damage, but min/max can roll higher)
    50% Damage
    Only physical min/max damage interferes with the 50% damage on the weapon itself that's why only those show up on the really high dps department. And only those get the bonus damage from %elemental damage gear (SoJ, Inna's belt, etc).
    150 Dex/Vit, 11% IAS, and 200 Dex provide a marginal benefit to your DPS.
    Well having up to 700 dex and 300 extra vitality (on two weapons) actually is a huge deal compared to pure crit damage and 5-6 spirit regen (adding armor, dodge, etc. depending on specc). The real question is: should anyone rely on the paperdoll damage or aim for high weapon damage instead even while sacrificing 'some dps'? Sweeping wind only rely on weapon damage and as you already mentioned it's about 50% of our total damage (but actually including spawned cyclones) - but it's enhanced via dexterity.

    Eg: 1200 dps, 0 dex, 0 crit damage vs 800 dps, 200 dex, 50 crit damage.

    And considering that you regulary only pay a fraction for the (way) lower dps version it's actually worth considering even for real end game choices.
  • #13
    Quote from ballon

    Really nice compilation you wrote up there but i wonder what's the typical DW monk you're refering to?
    2.00 AS, 300% crit damage, 45% crit chance, 2250 dex

    Quote from ballon

    On Mempo:
    Interesting statement considering hat any Mempo will have high amount of all resist while most of Inna's helmet can barely offer mediocre single resist. Rolling with double resist it's quite an impressive helmet compared to the average Inna's helmet you can find and not much more expensive. Especially for someone who's after Inna's pants & Witching Hour, already trading lots of defense potential for some offense. But your guide clearly states "for the end game" so it's only fair to only look for 'best in slot' i guess :) Another big downside on that helmet is the style, instead of an tiara (d2 style) it's an ugly helmet.
    inna's radiance can roll 80 resist all, just like a mempo.
    Inna's Radiance if rolled perfectly can have the following stats:
    200 Dexterity
    100 Vitality
    80 Resist All
    14% FoT/Sweeping Wind
    6% Crit Chance
    Socket

    if a mempo rolls perfectly, it can have the following stats:
    200 Dexterity
    12% Life
    9% IAS
    80 Resist
    6% Crit Chance
    Socket

    Since 100 Vit > 12% Life and 14% skill bonus > 9% IAS in terms of DPS (although it's marginally less spirit generation)
    that combined with the fact that the mempo does not offer a set bonus.
    and you realize that a perfectly rolled inna's radiance is superior to a perfectly rolled mempo.
    the only difference is perfectly rolled inna's radiance are much rarer to find on the AH.

    Quote from ballon
    On the weapon affix' part:
    And only those get the bonus damage from %elemental damage gear (SoJ, Inna's belt, etc).
    elemental damage from things like SoJ, Inna's Belt, etc, was patched in 1.05 to affect all forms of damage, not just physical.

    Quote from ballon

    150 Dex/Vit, 11% IAS, and 200 Dex provide a marginal benefit to your DPS.
    Well having up to 700 dex and 300 extra vitality (on two weapons) actually is a huge deal compared to pure crit damage and 5-6 spirit regen (adding armor, dodge, etc. depending on specc). The real question is: should anyone rely on the paperdoll damage or aim for high weapon damage instead even while sacrificing 'some dps'? Sweeping wind only rely on weapon damage and as you already mentioned it's about 50% of our total damage (but actually including spawned cyclones) - but it's enhanced via dexterity.

    Eg: 1200 dps, 0 dex, 0 crit damage vs 800 dps, 200 dex, 50 crit damage.

    And considering that you regulary only pay a fraction for the (way) lower dps version it's actually worth considering even for real end game choices.
    5 spirit gen might not sound like much on paper, especially if all you intend to do with it is use it on mantras or what not.
    But in practice, the spirit gen if fed properly into utility skills like dashing strike, cyclone strike, and or tempest rush, can mean the difference between paragon leveling at 50m xp/hr or 85m xp/hr.

    700 dex and 300 vit affords you to go a higher MP without noticing too much of a loss.
    which is marginally useful at best in terms of farming.

    either way, 700 dex and 300 vit is very very little for a whopping 4 weapon affix slots.
    the 200 dex affix is only worth overall 8% DPS
    the 150 dex/vit affix isn't much better.

    50% damage on one weapon is worth about 25% overall dps on a dual wield setup
    100% crit damage is worth about 20% overall dps on a dual wield setup
    lifesteal is priceless
    socket is another 100% crit damage
    And elemental/min/max damage accounts for at least half of your weapon's DPS.
    compared to this, 150 dex/150 vit, or 200 dex for 1 affix is completely trivial.
  • #14
    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip


    Quote from ballon
    On the weapon affix' part:
    And only those get the bonus damage from %elemental damage gear (SoJ, Inna's belt, etc).
    elemental damage from things like SoJ, Inna's Belt, etc, was patched in 1.05 to affect all forms of damage, not just physical.
    Imho it does not. If I want my spreadsheet to give the correct DPS, I still have to buff the "black damage" separately with the +% elemental.


    5 spirit gen might not sound like much on paper, especially if all you intend to do with it is use it on mantras or what not.
    But in practice, the spirit gen if fed properly into utility skills like dashing strike, cyclone strike, and or tempest rush, can mean the difference between paragon leveling at 50m xp/hr or 85m xp/hr.
    paragon is endgame? You're talking about gear in the 1bil/piece range. At least for me, by the time I can afford those I'll probably be done with plvls.


    Anyways, doesn't matter. The endgame weapon choices (for DW) seem to be:

    EF + WKL
    EF + rare
    WKL + rare
    2x rare

    The first option can only provide 100 crit in addition to 3% LS and two sockets, but has two insane dps boosts built in. The last option could go up to 6% LS in addition to having 200 crit + sockets.

    Now EF has the fear issue, while WKL is locked into using particular skills (which would only really be an issue if some more monk skills get buffed). The other WKL problem is that it shows low sheet dps, which is bad for morale (yeah I'm being serious here). One rare can easily replace one of the legendaries, since you gain 100 crit and possible higher base damage. I don't see 2 rares endgame. So all choices are doomed :D


    One little suggestion:
    Since you put the 135 crit damage comparison for the WKL buff, maybe you could add that a perfect EF provides 20.8% IAS for a slow off-hand. Essentially if you have a 1k dps spear in the off-hand, putting a EF in the main hand turns the off-hand into a 1.2k dps weapon.
    My monk Vin
  • #15
    nice guide
  • #16
    Quote from thundersteele

    Imho it does not. If I want my spreadsheet to give the correct DPS, I still have to buff the "black damage" separately with the +% elemental.
    I just checked and yeah, you're right.
    That's odd, I recall testing elemental damage in PTR and it worked just fine even when i had elemental weapons equipped.
    i guess the only fix was to make it affect both min and max physical damage now, instead of just min.

    Quote from thundersteele

    paragon is endgame? You're talking about gear in the 1bil/piece range. At least for me, by the time I can afford those I'll probably be done with plvls.
    yes, because IMO paragon xp is a a decent way to measure farming rate now that legendaries ping.

    Quote from thundersteele

    One little suggestion:
    Since you put the 135 crit damage comparison for the WKL buff, maybe you could add that a perfect EF provides 20.8% IAS for a slow off-hand. Essentially if you have a 1k dps spear in the off-hand, putting a EF in the main hand turns the off-hand into a 1.2k dps weapon.
    laazy :P
  • #17
    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip
    Since 100 Vit > 12% Life
    Since when? You're just making assumptions based on a character you created in a simulator. For me 12% life is about 20% stronger than 100 vita and i'm not really vita heavy (1200-ish).

    On that skill bonus: we can probably assume that dropping FoT is unlikely while dropping Sweeping Wind (for deadly reach with keen eye) is a rather common picture in the 'end game' due to enough dps and no more hastling around with having 75 spirit or not. That's why i'd prefer advising in picking up FoT.

    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip
    150 Dex/Vit, 11% IAS, and 200 Dex provide a marginal benefit to your DPS.
    It's a huge benefit to your EHP (both vitality and dex) and while using an elemental weapon it's actually not much of a difference if you have to choose between 900 dps or 1050 (elemental weapons can't roll much higher due to not working together with %weapon damage affix while providing way higher base damage range than added physical damage). And the overall paperdoll dps difference between adding 50% weapon damage for said elemental damage heavy weapon and 200 dex is actually almost nonexistent for your average dw monk according to my simulations. "50% damage on one weapon is worth about 25% overall dps on a dual wield setup"is nowhere near my results. That's still only a roughly 5% total dps difference for me if i choose 200 dex instead - that's with 2200 dex, 50% crit chance, 500% crit damage, 36% attack speed. Maybe you're also taking echoing fury buff into account from the other hand or something? 100% extra critical hit damage barely adds 15% total damage and overall weapons aren't that important - well at least on paperdoll.

    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip
    5 spirit gen might not sound like much on paper, especially if all you intend to do with it is use it on mantras or what not.
    But in practice, the spirit gen if fed properly into utility skills like dashing strike, cyclone strike, and or tempest rush, can mean the difference between paragon leveling at 50m xp/hr or 85m xp/hr.
    So your 'end game' is the grinding act 3 on mp0-4 tempest rush build? I actually assumed that's something beyond that point. For any spirit heavy build spirit regen is obviously pretty strong and you might be better off using 4 piece Inna instead of using perfectly rolled rares/witching hour providing a noticeable dps loss but huge comfort improvement. Heck with enough dps you can easily afford running with sweeping wind/master of wind and ignore all that recasting fuzz even on larger maps. And you can easily afford just using two mediocre yet still spirit regen heavy weapons instead your 1+ billion gold ones.

    edit: Vin beats me on the last part :)
  • #18
    Quote from ballon

    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip
    Since 100 Vit > 12% Life
    Since when? You're just making assumptions based on a character you created in a simulator. For me 12% life is about 20% stronger than 100 vita and i'm not really vita heavy (1200-ish).
    Lets assume a scenario with 1200 vit that favors 12% life as much as possible.

    12% life & 1200 vit -> 1344 vit
    that's only 44 more vit than +1300 vit, or 3.3%

    Generally speaking a player will already have some life %, and most monks i know have 900-1000 vit, not 1200.
    In which case linear scaling will favor 100 vitality

    Quote from ballon
    On that skill bonus: we can probably assume that dropping FoT is unlikely while dropping Sweeping Wind (for deadly reach with keen eye) is a rather common picture in the 'end game' due to enough dps and no more hastling around with having 75 spirit or not. That's why i'd prefer advising in picking up FoT.
    I would never sacrifice the majority of my AoE dps just for 50% armor.

    Quote from ballon

    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip
    150 Dex/Vit, 11% IAS, and 200 Dex provide a marginal benefit to your DPS.
    It's a huge benefit to your EHP (both vitality and dex) and while using an elemental weapon it's actually not much of a difference if you have to choose between 900 dps or 1050 (elemental weapons can't roll much higher due to not working together with %weapon damage affix while providing way higher base damage range than added physical damage). And the overall paperdoll dps difference between adding 50% weapon damage for said elemental damage heavy weapon and 200 dex is actually almost nonexistent for your average dw monk according to my simulations. "50% damage on one weapon is worth about 25% overall dps on a dual wield setup"is nowhere near my results. That's still only a roughly 5% total dps difference for me if i choose 200 dex instead - that's with 2200 dex, 50% crit chance, 500% crit damage, 36% attack speed. Maybe you're also taking echoing fury buff into account from the other hand or something? 100% extra critical hit damage barely adds 15% total damage and overall weapons aren't that important - well at least on paperdoll.
    elemental damage bonus caps at 316-725
    I'm not sure what the best for physical damage is, but for fist weapons, it's at least:
    337 min damage
    429 max damage
    Which i'm fairly certain means 337-766, contrary to physical damage on rings works.

    to make sure i wasnt making any errors, i took a look at the highest dps element and nonelement fist weapons on the AH.
    i saw a 1180.4 poison DPS one, with 11% IAS, so 1063 DPS no IAS.
    then there was a 1392.9 physical fist with 10% IAS, so 1266 DPS no IAS
    a delta of about 20%, which makes sense since both fists rolled 50% damage bonus.
    and the elemental one would only have that bonus applied to its physical component

    this would imply that 337 min and 429 max damage translates to 337-766 physical damage bonus.
    which is indeed more than the elemental damage bonus prior to even applying the 50%

    Quote from ballon
    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip
    5 spirit gen might not sound like much on paper, especially if all you intend to do with it is use it on mantras or what not.
    But in practice, the spirit gen if fed properly into utility skills like dashing strike, cyclone strike, and or tempest rush, can mean the difference between paragon leveling at 50m xp/hr or 85m xp/hr.
    So your 'end game' is the grinding act 3 on mp0-4 tempest rush build? I actually assumed that's something beyond that point. For any spirit heavy build spirit regen is obviously pretty strong and you might be better off using 4 piece Inna instead of using perfectly rolled rares/witching hour providing a noticeable dps loss but huge comfort improvement. Heck with enough dps you can easily afford running with sweeping wind/master of wind and ignore all that recasting fuzz even on larger maps. And you can easily afford just using two mediocre yet still spirit regen heavy weapons instead your 1+ billion gold ones.

    edit: Vin beats me on the last part :)
    For what it's worth I personally use a cyclone strike/dashing strike combo. No tempest rush.
    The alternative you're proposing is 150 dex and 150 vit in place of 2.50 spirit regen.
    Which is understandable, but I'm still going to go with no.
    Personal experience tells me that spirit regen is far more important for farming.
    a well placed cyclone strike means i can kill a pack of enemies in 3 punches total instead of 1-2 each.

    I'm also of the opinion that spirit regen will be important in PVP where ranged players will have methods of denying your spirit production.
  • #19
    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip

    For what it's worth I personally use a cyclone strike/dashing strike combo. No tempest rush.
    The alternative you're proposing is 150 dex and 150 vit in place of 2.50 spirit regen.
    Which is understandable, but I'm still going to go with no.
    Personal experience tells me that spirit regen is far more important for farming.
    a well placed cyclone strike means i can kill a pack of enemies in 3 punches total instead of 1-2 each.


    Someday I'd like to see you farm ;)

    Do you have a gear setup to farm efficiently without SW swap?
    My monk Vin
  • #20
    Quote from thundersteele

    Quote from Grimy_Bunyip

    For what it's worth I personally use a cyclone strike/dashing strike combo. No tempest rush.
    The alternative you're proposing is 150 dex and 150 vit in place of 2.50 spirit regen.
    Which is understandable, but I'm still going to go with no.
    Personal experience tells me that spirit regen is far more important for farming.
    a well placed cyclone strike means i can kill a pack of enemies in 3 punches total instead of 1-2 each.


    Someday I'd like to see you farm ;)

    Do you have a gear setup to farm efficiently without SW swap?
    not atm, sold it a month ago and I'm working on making money while I still can.
    Planning to buy a pair of BIS dual wield weapons when 1.06 is announced.
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