New ww barb - TR Monk All You Need To Know

  • #1
    I finally found the time/mood :) to put all of this together

    So Patch 1.0.4 removed the survivability requirement and now everything is about efficiency so time to adjust :)
    Two things to consider most people just go for the highest DPS possible however you also need speed because you still have to move from elite A to elite B.
    Typically some people started using dashing strike (like me ) because now the focus shifted from staying alive.
    Dash is great when u have mobs/stuff around to dash but when u don't its just a useless skill . From my experience only 50% of the time i would use dash so dash was not good enough.

    And while i know Tempest Rush is not something new I've only seen materials covering the mechanics but not a beginning till end guide so here it goes but first the juicy video part :)

    Videos :

    Feeling sometimes overwhelmed in the Fields of Slaughter ? Not anymore

    Act 4 Inferno

    Right..So

    Some common myths that I've seen . Tempest Rush monks have low DPS .
    If u combine spirit regen gear with skills you will have the same DPS as any other DPS only Monk.
    I want to channel Tempest Rush indefinitely !
    While you can reach almost indefinite channeling whats the point ? I'm using this to get from elite A to elite B or to disable elite affixes not marathons across D3 :) ( more on this later)

    Most important thing to make this work is spirit regen and you will typically need at least 5-6 spirit regen points ( but of course the more the better )
    The best way to get this is to use both skills and gear with spirit regen .

    Skills :
    Most people use One with everything , Seize the initiative and Resolve as passives , Resolve can be dropped for chant of resonance which gives 2 spirit per second
    The other points can be easily obtained with weapon with spirit regen and helm with spirit regen (Inna's would be one choice but any other helm will do) .
    So from these two you will have 3-4 points + 2 from Chant of resonance enough to make it work.

    Tempest rush Tailwind versus Northern Breeze - i want speed not increased channeling time (if only one is possible)

    Templar versus Enchantress . The templar does have a skill to increase spirit regen ( Inspiration) however it is only a bit better and for me losing the DPS and Armor boost from Enchantress is not worth it.

    Almost infinite channeling - can be achieved with 2handers and the Guardian's Path which increases spirit regen for 35% however even tho 2handers are now viable with weapons such as Skorn you get a lot more with 1H and shield both in terms of dps (better dps burst assuming you are not using overwave with the 2h because of the survivability issues) and defense.

    Other spirit regen items : there are the legendaries such as amulets (holy beacon) , rings , belts ( hellcat ? i dont remember exactly this one) but still researching viable spirit regen items.

    How to perfect the build : Movement speed typically boots there are also the legendaries with movement speed ( pants , bracers , chests etc )

    Builds :
    If you only want to try this out and not invest in spirit regen gear ( tho any monk should get spirit regen cos "not enough spirit" was always an issue)

    This build im using in all of my videos :

    - Fists of Thunder with Thunderclap
    – Blinding Flash with Faith in the light
    – Sweeping wind with Blade Storm
    – Serenity with Peaceful Repose
    – Tempest rush Tailwind
    – Mantra of healing with Circular Breathing

    Passives :
    One with Everything
    Chant of Resonance
    Seize the Initiative

    If you already have at least 3-4 spirit regen points from gear this one is better for the DPS increase :

    – Fist of thunder with Thunderclap
    – Blinding Flash with Faith in the light
    – Sweeping wind with Blade Storm – 60% weapon damage at 3 stacks – for me this is a no brainer ; some people like to use cyclone instead of blade storm because if i recall correctly the cyclones proc loh but the dps is just too low
    – Serenity with Peaceful Repose ; i just can’t see why people would use Ascension instead of healing
    – Mantra of Conviction with Overawe
    – Tempest Rush with Tailwind

    Passives :
    One with Everything –
    Chant of Resonance –
    Seize the Initiative –

    For the passives i find this to be the best however Seize the Initiative can be dropped for Feet Flooded for example but only if u have very good gear to compensate.

    But that's not all ! :)

    Check out my youtube channel for more stuff

    http://www.youtube.com/user/gttmonk

    and my blog for A LOT MORE goodies and on How To Gear A Monk to crush everything on sight (while tempest rushing of course :)

    http://d3monkrush.wordpress.com
  • #2
    I have added some more videos :

    Are those Fallen Maniacs giving you a hard time ? Not anymore
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faAUyC6cIFM

    I will also be making a how to gear a monk shopping video with low cash , but i can't promise it will be today or tomorrow.

    If you have any questions i will be checking this thread regularly
  • #3
    I've tried to make tempest rush work a few times. It just doesn't cut it. 35% constant run speed (gear + fleet footed) is better in my opinion, much less compromises with gear and passives and mantras.

    I mean, this is nice for farming elite packs, but you are not killing trash which costs you a lot of exp and chance to drop a Legendary.
    My monk Vin
  • #4
    TR is not only used for running you can also disable the more annoying elite abilities (such as getting you stuck in walls, corners, or simply overwhelming you ) - you can not do this with just running
    If you check closely my videos the elite fights you can see how easily i get out of potential bad situations :)

    My gear is not curently optimized for TR (i only used skills to get spirit regen) because i wanted to show it as is without any optimizations.
    Check my guide out if you already have movement speed gear and have good enough gear to use fleet footed + TR you will rush probably twice as fast as me in the videos :)

    As for paragons it is up to you if u skip a lot or kill everything for xp . i actually kill some of the white mobs to regen spirit faster :)

    P.S. quick tip :) curently you get spirit regen on items from AH for free :)
  • #5
    Final video with unoptimized gear The Crater + Cydea and Azmodan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3uWV1kR8aA

    Ghom kill without moving/kitting from the gas clouds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwTgHM9hAU

    Revised timers with unoptimized gear (no spirit regen from gear , no movement speed other than TR) :

    Stonefort + Keep 25m - 27m
    Arreat gate , Bridge of Korsikk, Rakkis Crossing 20m
    The crater + Cydea and Azmodan 21m-25m

    Deaths per full A3 run : usually 0 , occasionally 1

    Total : 1h 6m- 1h 12m
  • #6
    I have uploaded a video with my current gear and stats. (easier because screen shoots take longer but will also post the screen shoot version )

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEkUVSJWdJ8

    My gear is good but nothing out of ordinary still have to replace shoulders and shield + get spirit regen weapon + movement speed gear. Just swapped today my old Inna's with Inna with spirit regen.
  • #7
    Well, TR is only good if you really just wanna play something different. Its just not optimal. To me it feels like a crippled WW Barb and just bums me out. No matter how hard you gonna try, to clear a3 remotely close to how fast WW Barbs do it, you would need infinite amount of gold, cause TR is just bad compared to WW - and it doesnt have any proper synergy with other Monk's skills.
    Also I didnt see any TR on your bar during that Ghom kill, cant see the point.

    The only use I found for TR is a2 normal farm. ~12.x spirit regen, Tailwind rune, Conviction/Submission, 34% run speed and 35y pickup radius. You lolrun through the whole act like crazy.

    But sure, for just playing something else, whatever works for you. I always wanted to go +spirit on crit on generator, Blade Storm and Cyclone Strike spam with some WoL on top of it. Then I remembered just how good standard TC/Cyclone build is and didnt bother with changes.
  • #8
    Dude try it out :)
    1h and 6 minutes for a full A3 speed run WITH unoptimized gear competes with any WW barb if not better (because monk is better at survivability and barb loses time when he dies - AND of course im not talking here about the exceptions with hundreds and bilions of gold gear - only about the average)
    With gear optimizations ( spirit regen and movement speed ) + overweave you will easily do it under 1h

    You are saying crippled because you are comparing apples with oranges :)

    P.S. The Ghom video was just for fun :) can barb do that with the overpower nerf ? ( i dont know im just asking not ironically)
  • #9
    Once you get some spirit regeneration have you though about trying Mantra of Evasion and Wind Through the Reeds? It might not give you the extra damage of overawe, but it will provide some extra movement speed and some extra mitigation. This would also allow for one to get closer to the 25% movement speed increase cap without having to sacrifice stats on gear for the movement speed.
  • #10
    Interesting, but I still don't have the stuff necessary to try it.
  • #11
    @rathgood Mantra of Evasion and Wind Through the Reeds gives 5% ms overwave 48% damage increase with no cooldowns
    But yeah unfortunately ms on gear is overpriced

    @Faildeath Check my first post you can test it without investing in gear

    Movement speed stacks ,i was not sure if you just add them up or there was some different proportion to add . 10 from fleet fooded + 25 from TR + 25 from gear = 60
  • #12
    Update: Exalted soul better than chant of resonance (it almost doubles the channeling time ) but when your spirit is depleted harder to regain (especially if no elite around)
    Best to use if you have spirit regen gear
  • #13
    Okay, here it goes..

    After 20 k elite kills and expirimenting with TR builds since day 1, I need to say that it's not inherently "good" like the barb's WW build, in fact, compared to other build options and the cookie cutter cyclone build, TR builds are plain bad. The barb's WW is good on a budget and has certain properties about it that make it work in a special synergistic way, almost to the point of it being an exploit. There is nothing intrinsically good or synergistic about TR builds.

    Apart from this fact, it also has major faults.
    primarily, wobble mess up crowds, you can be hit out of it, less damage ticks than WW, and no off screen kills like WW unless you are using the bleed on Skorn.

    Tempest Rush can be viable, but viable for what exactly? for beating the game? Of course it is, for speed farming elites? Kind of.

    TR can be good, but your dps has to be extremely high to clear elites using it, and even then you will have better options. TR alone can not compete with the dps of skills such as SSS or any spirit generator, even with 7% extra crit chance on TR from rings like SOJ. Nobody said "TR monks have low dps", they said TR itself is not an efficient way to dps.

    I have watched your videos, and they are extremely unimpressive. Not only do you not use TR to kill elites, you only use it to move or dodge, with very low dps as well. To call this good or like WW is far from the truth if not laughable. If you think that I have spent a lot of gold on my gear or money I havent, and there are literally thousands of monks in the USA alone with dps over 100k. The important question for you and this thread is who are we competing with? and to what standards?

    Don't call TR the monk's WW, don't try to say that it's better than WW.
    Do not think for a second, that you have discovered a build comparable to WW, for its value in game, or for it's synergistic qualities. If you like the skill, thats great, but it's no more than a skill, and definitely is not a build in itself.

    I really don't mean to be rude here, and I want to give you serious props for being dedicated to TR, it's a hard road and it's brave of you to stray from the cookie cutter builds, and I do not mean to derail your thread. If anything I would suggest a change of the thread title since it may be a bit missleading. But otherwise please do keep sharing your findings for those who are interested, and do try skorn for off screen kills. : )
  • #14
    CitanX anyone can post whatever they want but not bothering to answer since 90% of what you wrote is already answered in this thread.
    For the unimpressive part it doesnt have to look impresive to be impressive facts speak for themselves as well as the number of people who started using it, adjusting it for their personal playstyle and loving it , tho not sure what you expected this is not barb it is monk :)
    For the cheap gear part this is a game based on gear where you can progress only with gear not sure why this is news for you so yeah you definately have to invest g for the best results which is true for any class especially the ww barb.


    Next will be matching and exceeding all records set by the ww barb with optimized gear this time , as well as DPS aims , spirit regen gear and more. Stay tuned :)
  • #15
    I read CitanX's post, and I feel very much the same about TR... a very nice, very fun skill, but not as efficient as the cookie cutter monk build, and nowhere near the WW barb.

    I understand that you are still working on your gear, but I would like to see an Alkaizer exp run with that setup, and actually see the exp that comes in.

    In my opinion, skipping trash is not a viable option anymore. The problem is that TR-ing through a trash pack doesn't kill it, even with 100k DPS (I tried!!!) so you have to stop to DPS, and at that point you start loosing time compared to WW barbs. With the standard Cyclone monk build you can get closer to WW barbs... you plow through the mobs and leave a trail of cyclones behind you that take out the remaining mobs, so you can actually kill 90%-95% of all mobs while always moving forward.
    My monk Vin
  • #16
    thundersteel not sure if i said this before but im not interested in paragon power leveling or competing with alkaizer ( i dont even use xp gems/rings ) because the content has been nerfed so there is no challenge
    This is just about having fun and showing that monks can complete A3 as fast (if not faster) than barbs - speed killing all the elites if you will :) and never dieing - whatever XP comes from that is good enough (but i've also noticed that while i get more speed and more dps i also get a lot more xp :) call it a side effect haha - so in theory if i do the run faster than him doing more runs will get me the same or more xp ? but i repeat this not my aim
    And btw im not skipping all the trash but not killing all either
    i actually did alkaizer's route and its a bit better in terms of loot and the speed at which i get that loot comparing to a full A3 run. I can post a video of that too and see what is the xp
  • #17

    Cyclone is by far the most potent rune on sweeping wind.
    The breakoff point for cyclone while using thunderclap is 13.33% crit chance/paper doll attack speed.
    Dual fists give 1.61 attack speed, so you would only need 9% crit for cyclone > bladestorm.

    Every time you land a critical hit, you only have a CHANCE to spawn a cyclone
    This chance is determined by your spirit generator's proc rate.
    Most spirit generators have about 75-85% chance to generate a cyclone on a critical hit.
    Thunderclap has the best cyclone generation. Having 5x75% chances to proc per 3 punches.
  • #18
    Well, I guess you said it in the first post. Sorry for bringing this up again.

    Here's one guy who is streaming TR runs: http://www.twitch.tv/rukrow
    His gear and build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rukrow-1275/hero/10455937

    He's also using the templar. Note that gear wise, he benefits from 4.5 regen on gear, but in addition, he has 4pc Inna's so he can recast sweeping wind at almost no cost.

    Now, if you search through this forum, you will find a thread I created 2 month ago or so, about trying a TR monk. With about 40k DPS, I failed miserably, died even to simple trash packs. This was at a point where I could handle most stuff in A3 just fine with the normal spec. The next attempt was using a 2h (Skorn) that gave me almost 100k paper DPS. At this point it works, but I still felt more vulnerable than with any of the other specs I had been trying. The issue was mostly that my spirit was low, with 5/second and slow generation from 2h attacks. It just sucks if you can't get SW up.

    Some day, I will try again :)

    I still would like to see a vid with 24% run speed + tempest with your updated gear, whenever you are ready :)
    My monk Vin
  • #19
    Yeah well only issue i have with his build is mantra of healing . just no excuse not to use overawe and at the same time getting spirit regen gear.
    His gear yeah the inna's are cool but for the rest i can do a lot better.
    Im pretty much out of cash currently so might take a bit to recover :) i'm not playing all day long but will definitely post the video with the speed run updated gear :)
  • #20
    Finally got me gears ! 6 spirit regen , 80k DPS , 49 ms (24 from gear 25 tr)

    Build :
    Tempest rush tailwind
    Fists of thunder thunderclap
    Blind faith in the light
    Mantra of conviction overawe ( yeah baby)
    Serenity peaceful repose
    Sweeping wind cyclone (some people said it will look more impressive this way)

    Passives : One with Everything , Seize the Initiative , Exalted Soul

    Gear cost : 200 m, excluding gems (tho half was on bids and good deals) . About the cost..some people may consider this a lot others will consider it low . You don't have to spend 200m to make this work(you literally have to spend nothing check out the starter's build ) however as with everything the more you invest the better the results.

    Alkaizer's run usually 14-15 minutes (best run 12 minutes 37 seconds)
    For the people with more cash who want to go under 10 minutes ( 9- 10 minutes ) priority is higher DPS and max spirit regen 8 (while not taking a dip in defense and DPS)


    So theory proven monks can compete and even exceed barbs . Enjoy!
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