100k * 0.03 * 0.2 = 600 life for each time you hit
where 0.2 is the coefficent for life steal nerf in inferno
Life steal nerf in inferno? I'm not sure what you're talking about. Is there a link to this information somewhere?
To answer the OP it also depends on class/build. For instance spells like Locust Swarm and Blizzard do not proc LOH with every tick, but they DO provide life steal each tick. Also you shouldn't really be REPLACING life on hit with life steal, you should have both. Life steal is ONLY available on weapons, unless you're a barbarian, and LOH is available on weapon/ring/amulet and some ledendaries (ie. blackthorn pants) which means (in my opinion anyway) to get max life leeching you want life steal on weapon, LOH on rings and amulet. I also try to have as much life regen on my chest as possible.
A typical thunderclap/cyclone monk with 35% crit chance does about 6x more single target dps than indicated by their paper doll.
so assume your unbuffed dps is 50k, you should be doing 300k single target DPS.
Multiply that by 3% lifesteal, and divide by 5 because of inferno nerf.
and you get 1800 life per second
Now lets look at life on hit.
Thunderclap has 1.5x attack speed and procs 375% LoH every 3 punches, 225% of that is AoE LoH.
so lets say you have 2.0 attack speed.
600 LoH * 2.0 AS * 1.5 (thunderclap AS boost) * 375/3 (Thunderclap Proc per Punch)
= 2250 life per second.
so at 50k dps, 2.0 AS, and thunderclap.
480 LoH = 3% LS
1. The health return per second from LoH depends on your hits per second, would be 1800 with an attack speed of two
2. More importantly, life steal scales with all active and passive damage buffs, and from all damage sources. Say you have 100k dps, and a single target
FoT/Thunderclap: average 120% of DPS, times MoC/Overawe: 100k*1.1*1.24 (or 1.48) = 136k
SW: 45%, + Mantra, + if cast with blinding flash buff: 100k*0.45*1.3*1.24 (or 1.48) = 72k
Cyclone: this one is harder to estimate, but lets say we have one hit per second, that's an extra 100k*0.2*1.3*1.24 = 32k
So already single target, we are looking at a damage output of 240k per second, which should return 1440 health/second.
I'm not going to attempt to calculate multi target, others have done this here in the forum. Then one has to take into account that the third hit of FoT hits multiple targets both for the LoH and for the LS calculation.
you made two mistakes here
1 -> you need to consider LoH proc rates, you do not get 100% LoH for each punch with thunderclap, you get a bit more.
Hence 2250 not 1800
2 -> You're way underestimating cyclones by estimating that they only shock once a second.
A single cyclone hits once every 0.6 seconds.
And chances are you'll have much more than 1 cyclone active at a time.
also the AoE effects of LoH from thunderclap are easy to consider.
3 punch combo generates 375% loh to single target
225% AoE.
so for every 375 health healed by single target LoH, you'll get 225 more for each extra target caught in AoE.
You can have up to 6% LS when dual wielding, which is a major difference. That 1.2% LS in Inferno, which is huge when you can get your dps numbers up high.
Any time this gets brought up, I always say the same thing: use both. You don't need that much LoH due to insane proc rates from Thunderclap, and with all those cyclones flying around and SW constantly up, Life Steal starts to shine as well.
There will always be advocates of one or the other, fervently defending their point of view, but to them I only smile and say go for it.
The title of the thread is quite misleading. Not to mention play style, etc., how often do we have two similar weapons to choose between LOH and LS? Both are useful resources and they are not fighting against each other, i.e. they are not exclusive.
It might be useful, however, to have some idea about the break even point for certain build to provide a reference of LS vs LOH. When your DPS is up, just pay more attention to get LS, not as a replacement of LOH but as a supplement for additional safety, as they are situational too even though they both reap the same amount of life for a given period of time. When cyclones are up, LS can reap life even though your're trapped, which is usually the most critical time for monk between live and death.
Hey, when LL gets better than LoH is dependant on two things: Your DPS and your attackspeed.
say a dual wielding monk have 1.96 attacks per second, 120k DPS and 900 LoH. In order to get more LL than LoH you would need 7.4% LL (this is considering the nerf).
If you now go to a 2h barb with 1.1 attacks per second, 1900 LoH and 120k DPS you would need 7.6% LL.
But this is long before certain things are being calculated:
1: Efficiency of LoH. Many damage dealing spells do not provide you the effect of LoH, examples is the mystic ally. Theese effects are still given to you using LL.
2: Your attacks do not deal 100% weapon damage, bash deals 165%, taking that into consideration you would only need 5.3% LL to beat 1.9k LoH using the above numbers given for the barb.
3: Many effects increase your DPS, a barb can have +13% crit, 25% attackspeed and 15% flat damage, so if you cant have 100% uptime on your WotB (Wrath of the berserker, or maybe berserkers wrath, I'm no barb!) providing exactly if the LL or LoH will be better may be hard to determine.
4: LL aligns well with cooldowns, and it is when you pop cooldowns you usually are in a "oh shit" situation, therefore I would say LL is more of a situational stat while LoH is more of a sustain stat.
My conclusion is however: go for both.
If you want, I can provide exact amounts regarding your situation (how much LL you need to surpass the LoH etc), Im not going to upload my spreadsheets though (mainly due to me being lazy and not wanting to translate them).
LOH is perfect for WW barb, as he dishes out damage on moving around, and hence hits are smeared out which could be easily balanced by the life gained back over the same period of time.
Even though we try to avoid that as far as possible, monks have to stay briefly at one spot and get trapped. Moving rapidly around is key and able to deal damage on moving is king.
At higher difficulty, we may need life sustain elements of all sorts, life globe, LOH, LS, regen, LAK, life/spirit, heal, etc.
Even though we try to avoid that as far as possible, monks have to stay briefly at one spot and get trapped. Moving rapidly around is key and able to deal damage on moving is king.
Moving around???? The only thing you move from is molten. That rest is just faceup tanked with life steal, that is if you got good gear. As the game is now at higher deficulties you dont need anything else than life steal and remove your fat torso out of molten.
100k * 0.03 * 0.2 = 600 life for each time you hit
where 0.2 is the coefficent for life steal nerf in inferno
Life steal nerf in inferno? I'm not sure what you're talking about. Is there a link to this information somewhere?
To answer the OP it also depends on class/build. For instance spells like Locust Swarm and Blizzard do not proc LOH with every tick, but they DO provide life steal each tick. Also you shouldn't really be REPLACING life on hit with life steal, you should have both. Life steal is ONLY available on weapons, unless you're a barbarian, and LOH is available on weapon/ring/amulet and some ledendaries (ie. blackthorn pants) which means (in my opinion anyway) to get max life leeching you want life steal on weapon, LOH on rings and amulet. I also try to have as much life regen on my chest as possible.
so assume your unbuffed dps is 50k, you should be doing 300k single target DPS.
Multiply that by 3% lifesteal, and divide by 5 because of inferno nerf.
and you get 1800 life per second
Now lets look at life on hit.
Thunderclap has 1.5x attack speed and procs 375% LoH every 3 punches, 225% of that is AoE LoH.
so lets say you have 2.0 attack speed.
600 LoH * 2.0 AS * 1.5 (thunderclap AS boost) * 375/3 (Thunderclap Proc per Punch)
= 2250 life per second.
so at 50k dps, 2.0 AS, and thunderclap.
480 LoH = 3% LS
you made two mistakes here
1 -> you need to consider LoH proc rates, you do not get 100% LoH for each punch with thunderclap, you get a bit more.
Hence 2250 not 1800
2 -> You're way underestimating cyclones by estimating that they only shock once a second.
A single cyclone hits once every 0.6 seconds.
And chances are you'll have much more than 1 cyclone active at a time.
also the AoE effects of LoH from thunderclap are easy to consider.
3 punch combo generates 375% loh to single target
225% AoE.
so for every 375 health healed by single target LoH, you'll get 225 more for each extra target caught in AoE.
Any time this gets brought up, I always say the same thing: use both. You don't need that much LoH due to insane proc rates from Thunderclap, and with all those cyclones flying around and SW constantly up, Life Steal starts to shine as well.
There will always be advocates of one or the other, fervently defending their point of view, but to them I only smile and say go for it.
It might be useful, however, to have some idea about the break even point for certain build to provide a reference of LS vs LOH. When your DPS is up, just pay more attention to get LS, not as a replacement of LOH but as a supplement for additional safety, as they are situational too even though they both reap the same amount of life for a given period of time. When cyclones are up, LS can reap life even though your're trapped, which is usually the most critical time for monk between live and death.
say a dual wielding monk have 1.96 attacks per second, 120k DPS and 900 LoH. In order to get more LL than LoH you would need 7.4% LL (this is considering the nerf).
If you now go to a 2h barb with 1.1 attacks per second, 1900 LoH and 120k DPS you would need 7.6% LL.
But this is long before certain things are being calculated:
1: Efficiency of LoH. Many damage dealing spells do not provide you the effect of LoH, examples is the mystic ally. Theese effects are still given to you using LL.
2: Your attacks do not deal 100% weapon damage, bash deals 165%, taking that into consideration you would only need 5.3% LL to beat 1.9k LoH using the above numbers given for the barb.
3: Many effects increase your DPS, a barb can have +13% crit, 25% attackspeed and 15% flat damage, so if you cant have 100% uptime on your WotB (Wrath of the berserker, or maybe berserkers wrath, I'm no barb!) providing exactly if the LL or LoH will be better may be hard to determine.
4: LL aligns well with cooldowns, and it is when you pop cooldowns you usually are in a "oh shit" situation, therefore I would say LL is more of a situational stat while LoH is more of a sustain stat.
My conclusion is however: go for both.
If you want, I can provide exact amounts regarding your situation (how much LL you need to surpass the LoH etc), Im not going to upload my spreadsheets though (mainly due to me being lazy and not wanting to translate them).
Currently played toon: https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rage-2973/hero/97362116
Because your gear i either A: Bad or B: your a ww barb.
Currently played toon: https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rage-2973/hero/97362116
Even though we try to avoid that as far as possible, monks have to stay briefly at one spot and get trapped. Moving rapidly around is key and able to deal damage on moving is king.
At higher difficulty, we may need life sustain elements of all sorts, life globe, LOH, LS, regen, LAK, life/spirit, heal, etc.
Moving around???? The only thing you move from is molten. That rest is just faceup tanked with life steal, that is if you got good gear. As the game is now at higher deficulties you dont need anything else than life steal and remove your fat torso out of molten.
Currently played toon: https://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rage-2973/hero/97362116
For us medium geared players with hardly earned items, we have to be more dynamics and make use of all possible resources.
I can't stand at laser heads, but I only die ocassionally surrounded and trapped/frozen in hot mortar.