every hit gives u 6 spirit. exploding palm need 40 to use. do the calculation alone ;>
If you say this to me, read my post.I said pre patch 14 when it was still a generator. I did that cause I still don't know the new stuff by heart.
But regardless, the math will potentially become irrelevant in the future as afaik +%spirit generation is still a stat in the game to be found on higher level gear. So hopefully with time and luck, you'll grow to need less and less generators before wanting to use whatever Spender you want.
I'm hoping the Daibo get this stat reliably so the discrepancy is compensated for a bit with dual wielding.
Tbh I'm really worried since patch 14 came up. I really started feeling starved. Like my spenders don't hit as hard as you'd expect, and don't justify they're cost.
100 WoL? 75 Cyclone Strike? 40 for Exploding Palm? 30 for kick? 25 for Dash?
Considering we don't have any base spirit generation, and it can only come from items, I'd say were in pretty deep shit if we come up against any good kiter in PvP that can starve us entirely.
Yes Wizard can't heal, but his AP generates very fast and his hard hitting spells cost about the same. If you want you can even compare to DH which generates pretty slow but still has some basic generation of resources.
I would hate it if I had to spam generators forever in order to get one attack out that barely does any damage. 220% weapon damage for 40 spirit? thats exactly 2 generator strikes, in the cost of needing 5-6 hits to do.
Either up the damage or get spenders lowered in cost.
every hit gives u 6 spirit. exploding palm need 40 to use. do the calculation alone ;>
If you say this to me, read my post.I said pre patch 14 when it was still a generator. I did that cause I still don't know the new stuff by heart.
But regardless, the math will potentially become irrelevant in the future as afaik +%spirit generation is still a stat in the game to be found on higher level gear. So hopefully with time and luck, you'll grow to need less and less generators before wanting to use whatever Spender you want.
I'm hoping the Daibo get this stat reliably so the discrepancy is compensated for a bit with dual wielding.
I would think that 2h would potentally have less +spiritgen then a fist weapon (being that only monks can use them.) one of the monk passive skills increases spirit gen with 2h but when duel wielding you only get dodge%. since you can have two weapons with spirit gen it would even out sort of. same goes for dodge on daibo.
every hit gives u 6 spirit. exploding palm need 40 to use. do the calculation alone ;>
If you say this to me, read my post.I said pre patch 14 when it was still a generator. I did that cause I still don't know the new stuff by heart.
But regardless, the math will potentially become irrelevant in the future as afaik +%spirit generation is still a stat in the game to be found on higher level gear. So hopefully with time and luck, you'll grow to need less and less generators before wanting to use whatever Spender you want.
I'm hoping the Daibo get this stat reliably so the discrepancy is compensated for a bit with dual wielding.
I would think that 2h would potentally have less +spiritgen then a fist weapon (being that only monks can use them.) one of the monk passive skills increases spirit gen with 2h but when duel wielding you only get dodge%. since you can have two weapons with spirit gen it would even out sort of. same goes for dodge on daibo.
I really dislike that passive. I don't see any reason going for 2 hander atm, because it seems like dual wielding yields more profit.
You get 8 attribute buffs instead of 6, generate spirit faster, and attack faster, which leads to more 3rd strikes popping out.
The +2 attributes you get can go into spirit generation without sacrificing anything for it, which means that even if you go two hander and get + spirit gen, AND guardians path, you will get the same spirit (if not less) compared to dual wielding WITHOUT guardians path, which gives you an extra passive.
And the most annoying thing, we don't have staff animations. It's just.. there. Which pisses me off.
I have to agree.. before I got the Beta (waay back in september) I was struggling to chose my first class. I was down to Wizard and Monk.
Now, after all this time of playing the beta, The monk is not even in the discussion any more. Now I'm between Wizard and WD.
The reason the Monk is out of the discussion is the way the Spirit works.
I know that later in the game, with better gear, it will likely not mean as much.. but here is the issue:
A wizard can cast 3 Arcane Orbs, which even after the nerf do 175% weapon damage each in a big explosion. After casting, they can do signature spells, for about 6-10 seconds, and cast 3 more (insert any expensive spell for arcane orb).
The Monk, can build up spirit for a good 20-30 seconds, depending on the monsters arround you, and then cast 1 wave of light, which deals 150% damage to stuff in front of you, followed by 150% more in a line. Its a more powerfull spell than Orb to be sure, but, you can only do 1.. and you can't just run away and have your spirit regen so you can attack again. The only way to get your spirit back is to keep fighting (Or perhaps build a Monk with ALOT of passive spirit regen.. which is exactly how I intend to build mine when I do make one).
But I don't see how the two can ever be equal.. the only way is if the monk's spirit regen spells are vastly more powerfull than the Wizards signature spells.. which they don't appear to be. Dont get me wrong, I cant wait to play a monk, but it seems like a pretty huge difference. I guess, at least at low levels, the expesive spirt spells (wave of light is 100) feel way to expensive to me.. that may all change late in the game.
Edit* On a side note, I am loving the new Exploding Palm. So awesome.
I have to agree.. before I got the Beta (waay back in september) I was struggling to chose my first class. I was down to Wizard and Monk.
Now, after all this time of playing the beta, The monk is not even in the discussion any more. Now I'm between Wizard and WD.
The reason the Monk is out of the discussion is the way the Spirit works.
I know that later in the game, with better gear, it will likely not mean as much.. but here is the issue:
A wizard can cast 3 Arcane Orbs, which even after the nerf do 175% weapon damage each in a big explosion. After casting, they can do signature spells, for about 6-10 seconds, and cast 3 more (insert any expensive spell for arcane orb).
The Monk, can build up spirit for a good 20-30 seconds, depending on the monsters arround you, and then cast 1 wave of light, which deals 150% damage to stuff in front of you, followed by 150% more in a line. Its a more powerfull spell than Orb to be sure, but, you can only do 1.. and you can't just run away and have your spirit regen so you can attack again. The only way to get your spirit back is to keep fighting (Or perhaps build a Monk with ALOT of passive spirit regen.. which is exactly how I intend to build mine when I do make one).
But I don't see how the two can ever be equal.. the only way is if the monk's spirit regen spells are vastly more powerfull than the Wizards signature spells.. which they don't appear to be. Dont get me wrong, I cant wait to play a monk, but it seems like a pretty huge difference. I guess, at least at low levels, the expesive spirt spells (wave of light is 100) feel way to expensive to me.. that may all change late in the game.
Edit* On a side note, I am loving the new Exploding Palm. So awesome.
New EP would be awesome if it costed less, in my opinion. I agree with you totally and my inner discussion is between Wiz and Mo also. Maybe barb, just can't decide.
But thats not my point.
We think the same. I Don't see how a Mo could ever equal the DPS of a Wizard EVER, just because of this specifically. Wizard can kite you around endlessly and use FREEEE defensive CD's (FN and DS) which BLOWS MY MIND. Our defensive skills cost a fuckton of spirit to activate considering our passive ragen (which is NONE) and the signature spells do the same damage (if not more) of our spirit generators, only they are ranged and generate passively.
I would like to say that "thats Wizard and thats his regen, it stays that way while we can get passive +sg", but all classes can get more passive regen so I don't see how we scale.
Technically, were going to be in the same spot vs other classes regarding this issue, and it pisses me the hell off.
The Monk's energy source definitely feels more present / starved out than any other class in my opinion. This does seem at least to some extent intentional, you're supposed to (I think) use the generating ability combos often, and I get that, but still. Maybe it speaks more to the feeling that the sources for the other classes is perhaps slightly too bountiful? I don't know the last time I ran out of mana as WD for instance, when I see +mana / +mana regen gear for WD I don't even blink at it, it feels useless, but + Spirit gear for Monk feels very desirable.
Well at this rate they're keeping true to Spirit being a precious resource, despite it frequently not being worth it. I still think WoL costs way too much for what it does. Also wish they'd bring back the more gory version of Exploding Palm it originally had when the Monk was revealed, or at least some of it. The over the top explosion animation made no sense for a skill that could be spammed being a generator, but you can't do that now so while the math side has some more punch, the animation doesn't live up to it imo.
Here's to hoping they reduce the cost by at least 10 or so before release still.
I really dislike that passive. I don't see any reason going for 2 hander atm, because it seems like dual wielding yields more profit.
You get 8 attribute buffs instead of 6, generate spirit faster, and attack faster, which leads to more 3rd strikes popping out.
The +2 attributes you get can go into spirit generation without sacrificing anything for it, which means that even if you go two hander and get + spirit gen, AND guardians path, you will get the same spirit (if not less) compared to dual wielding WITHOUT guardians path, which gives you an extra passive.
And the most annoying thing, we don't have staff animations. It's just.. there. Which pisses me off.
The trade off is your finishers will do a lot less damage. Take your pick.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
To some extent I think you guys are right, you shouldn't have lots of spirit to spend, but rather use it wisely.
But on the other hand, this could as well be just a low level issue. Think about the Wizard or the Witchdoctor. Those classes are supposed to be limited by their ressource (otherwise the ressource could just be removed from the game), but at low beta levels it rather feels like unlimited. Especially as a Witchdoctor, mana regenerates almost as fast as you can spend it.
I feel like the monk class spirit spenders will have to be used wisely and efficiently instead of constant spamming, which in fact will be left to the spirit generators
Is my math off that you need 17 spirit generator activations for WoL to cast?(presuming you have wasted all spirit beforehand - that would happen in PVP alot).
Staff users obliged to use "Guardian's path" passive? Since they have even less spirit generation. Making every generator create 7 or 8 spirit would help by little, but would not overpower the monk, which is right measure I think.
We need to take into account that monks' generators can fire of good amount of damage in short period, 3 fists of thunder will do 300% weapon dmg, and enable you to use some finisher for 200ish, that seems like an ok burst.
I think if you look at the wholepicture the monk is fine. The generators (and other skills) are really powerful, I think the monk the best resource free skills because of the generators can do anything you'd want. If you don't like generators that's pretty much the foundation of the class. The reason the resource is slow is because 150 is actually a good amount of resources. In PvP with 150 spirit the monk could drop 5 lashing tail kicks for a total of 1000% dmg without any other multipliers. You can have damage coming out of both ends with a monk if you have full spirirt. If your patient every 25 hits you land leaves you full of spirirt, and if you have 1.3 attacks per second that mean about every19 seconds you can drop a spirirt bomb (no such thing as a spirit bomb). Also transcendence mean that every 19 seconds you can be healed for 17700 just for using the spirirt you were already going to use. The monk is such a versatile characters you can make into anything in terms filling roles because of its melee/magic characteristic.
I seen so many characteristics of the monk get nerfed and this all just indicated me that from the begging the only problem blizzard had with the monk was that it was too strong. Think about this, they don't want the monk to be using the most powerful 2-handed swords for a reason. They had to drops the monks dodge chance, to make it killable (mantra of evasion took enough hits) because, 2 months ago if you were (hypothetically) rocking mantra of evasion with guardians path and max dexterity youd be untouchable. I don't really have any worries about the monk because overall its recieved more nerfs than buffs compared to ther characters, which indicated to me it had to nerfed to match other characters.
I'm not totally ignorant of the disadvantage of not being able to use high dps skills on demand but this just means your spirit generator choice is very imporant because it will play a big role. And if monks have be using spirit generators for over 75% of the time, then +damage% modifiers will be important for boost the damage of your generators with some skills like foresight, blazing wrath and mantra of conviction.
TLDR: Spirit doesn't matter anyways, you'll probably find yourself in later difficulties running to nearest corner you find and spamming trident deadly reach.
I'm with year20012, MeddlinG, and AFd3- I used to be concerned about spirit generation, but having just gotten into the beta it is not a problem. You can build up enough spirit to use a spender in ~5 seconds. I usually rip into a crowd with a spender attack like Tempest Rush/Lashing Tail Kick and then pick off the stragglers with spirit generators, so I'm ready for the next bunch. And I don't even have any spirit regeneration gear, so when you factor that in I think monks will be in great shape.
AFd3, your point about all the monk nerfs is great. I think that's also why monks can't wield ranged weapons- with all their defensive strength and heals, they'd be OP if they could keep at a distance from enemies.
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If you say this to me, read my post.I said pre patch 14 when it was still a generator. I did that cause I still don't know the new stuff by heart.
But regardless, the math will potentially become irrelevant in the future as afaik +%spirit generation is still a stat in the game to be found on higher level gear. So hopefully with time and luck, you'll grow to need less and less generators before wanting to use whatever Spender you want.
I'm hoping the Daibo get this stat reliably so the discrepancy is compensated for a bit with dual wielding.
100 WoL? 75 Cyclone Strike? 40 for Exploding Palm? 30 for kick? 25 for Dash?
Considering we don't have any base spirit generation, and it can only come from items, I'd say were in pretty deep shit if we come up against any good kiter in PvP that can starve us entirely.
Yes Wizard can't heal, but his AP generates very fast and his hard hitting spells cost about the same. If you want you can even compare to DH which generates pretty slow but still has some basic generation of resources.
I would hate it if I had to spam generators forever in order to get one attack out that barely does any damage. 220% weapon damage for 40 spirit? thats exactly 2 generator strikes, in the cost of needing 5-6 hits to do.
Either up the damage or get spenders lowered in cost.
I really dislike that passive. I don't see any reason going for 2 hander atm, because it seems like dual wielding yields more profit.
You get 8 attribute buffs instead of 6, generate spirit faster, and attack faster, which leads to more 3rd strikes popping out.
The +2 attributes you get can go into spirit generation without sacrificing anything for it, which means that even if you go two hander and get + spirit gen, AND guardians path, you will get the same spirit (if not less) compared to dual wielding WITHOUT guardians path, which gives you an extra passive.
And the most annoying thing, we don't have staff animations. It's just.. there. Which pisses me off.
Now, after all this time of playing the beta, The monk is not even in the discussion any more. Now I'm between Wizard and WD.
The reason the Monk is out of the discussion is the way the Spirit works.
I know that later in the game, with better gear, it will likely not mean as much.. but here is the issue:
A wizard can cast 3 Arcane Orbs, which even after the nerf do 175% weapon damage each in a big explosion. After casting, they can do signature spells, for about 6-10 seconds, and cast 3 more (insert any expensive spell for arcane orb).
The Monk, can build up spirit for a good 20-30 seconds, depending on the monsters arround you, and then cast 1 wave of light, which deals 150% damage to stuff in front of you, followed by 150% more in a line. Its a more powerfull spell than Orb to be sure, but, you can only do 1.. and you can't just run away and have your spirit regen so you can attack again. The only way to get your spirit back is to keep fighting (Or perhaps build a Monk with ALOT of passive spirit regen.. which is exactly how I intend to build mine when I do make one).
But I don't see how the two can ever be equal.. the only way is if the monk's spirit regen spells are vastly more powerfull than the Wizards signature spells.. which they don't appear to be. Dont get me wrong, I cant wait to play a monk, but it seems like a pretty huge difference. I guess, at least at low levels, the expesive spirt spells (wave of light is 100) feel way to expensive to me.. that may all change late in the game.
Edit* On a side note, I am loving the new Exploding Palm. So awesome.
New EP would be awesome if it costed less, in my opinion. I agree with you totally and my inner discussion is between Wiz and Mo also. Maybe barb, just can't decide.
But thats not my point.
We think the same. I Don't see how a Mo could ever equal the DPS of a Wizard EVER, just because of this specifically. Wizard can kite you around endlessly and use FREEEE defensive CD's (FN and DS) which BLOWS MY MIND. Our defensive skills cost a fuckton of spirit to activate considering our passive ragen (which is NONE) and the signature spells do the same damage (if not more) of our spirit generators, only they are ranged and generate passively.
I would like to say that "thats Wizard and thats his regen, it stays that way while we can get passive +sg", but all classes can get more passive regen so I don't see how we scale.
Technically, were going to be in the same spot vs other classes regarding this issue, and it pisses me the hell off.
Here's to hoping they reduce the cost by at least 10 or so before release still.
The trade off is your finishers will do a lot less damage. Take your pick.
But on the other hand, this could as well be just a low level issue. Think about the Wizard or the Witchdoctor. Those classes are supposed to be limited by their ressource (otherwise the ressource could just be removed from the game), but at low beta levels it rather feels like unlimited. Especially as a Witchdoctor, mana regenerates almost as fast as you can spend it.
Staff users obliged to use "Guardian's path" passive? Since they have even less spirit generation. Making every generator create 7 or 8 spirit would help by little, but would not overpower the monk, which is right measure I think.
I seen so many characteristics of the monk get nerfed and this all just indicated me that from the begging the only problem blizzard had with the monk was that it was too strong. Think about this, they don't want the monk to be using the most powerful 2-handed swords for a reason. They had to drops the monks dodge chance, to make it killable (mantra of evasion took enough hits) because, 2 months ago if you were (hypothetically) rocking mantra of evasion with guardians path and max dexterity youd be untouchable. I don't really have any worries about the monk because overall its recieved more nerfs than buffs compared to ther characters, which indicated to me it had to nerfed to match other characters.
I'm not totally ignorant of the disadvantage of not being able to use high dps skills on demand but this just means your spirit generator choice is very imporant because it will play a big role. And if monks have be using spirit generators for over 75% of the time, then +damage% modifiers will be important for boost the damage of your generators with some skills like foresight, blazing wrath and mantra of conviction.
TLDR: Spirit doesn't matter anyways, you'll probably find yourself in later difficulties running to nearest corner you find and spamming trident deadly reach.
AFd3, your point about all the monk nerfs is great. I think that's also why monks can't wield ranged weapons- with all their defensive strength and heals, they'd be OP if they could keep at a distance from enemies.