Patch 13 Monk Changes

  • #1

    Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)


    Monk

    Active Skills
    • Breath of Heaven
      • Spirit cost reduced from 50 to 25
      • Heal amount increased
      • Now has a 15 second cooldown
    • Dashing Strike
      • Weapon damage decreased from 160% to 80%
      • Pathing has been improved
    • Exploding Palm
      • Weapon damage from bleed effect decreased from 65% to 60%
    • Lashing Tail Kick
      • Weapon damage decreased from 225% to 200%
    • Mantra of Evasion
      • Chance to dodge bonus decreased from 25% to 15%
      • Secondary bonus to dodge attacks, in effect for the first 3 seconds after activation, also decreased from 25% to 15%
    Passive Skills
    • Guardian's Path
      • When dual-wielding, chance to dodge bonus increased from 10% to 15%
      • While using a two-handed weapon, Spirit regeneration bonus increased from 20% to 25%
    • Resolve
      • Enemy damage reduction decreased from 30% to 25%


    So what do you guys think about all this? I for one think they nerfed quite a few things :(.

    Active Skills:

    Breath of Heaven with a CD isnt hat bad because they compensate us with lower cost and a greater amount healed. Also the CD is only 15sec... so I guess I can live with that.

    The Dashing Strike damage change is pretty big... then again its a movement skill... so I guess I can live with it. Even if I dont understand the flip floping they are doing with Dashing Strikes damage. It started with 50%, went up to 80% went up again to 160% and now is back at 80%...

    Exploding Palm is only a small decrease... not sure if it was needed because we couldnt test it in Hell/Inferno but the change isnt that big.

    Lashing Tail Kick - well... it seems unnecessary. The skill already had a pretty bad dmg/spirit ratio now its even worse.

    Now comes the really bad part... Mantra of Evasion. The change from 25% down to 15% seems like a pretty hard hit for the effectiveness of the skill. Its a pretty big decrease in our defense. If Mantra of Conviction (Alabaster) still provides the -30%dmg Aura I guess Mantra of Conviction with the Alabaster rune is now a better defensive choice... and that is quite sad if you ask me.

    Passive Skills:

    Guardian's Path: The change is pretty decent. With that change the skill should be on par with other passives. For example if you compare the 15% Dodge to Sixth Sense you would need 30% Crit for the same effect. That sounds about right. The change to Spiritregen is quite intresting... I'll do some math and see if 2H Weapons pull ahead of 1H Weapons with that. Before the Patch in most cases the way faster attack speed lead to a higher spirit generaton while dualwielding even if you had the Guardians Path. But those 5% could be the small gap that 2H weapons needed.

    Resolve: Well... an other nerf. But I guess 30% were pretty hefty? I really like Resolve... and I think I still like it. Not much to say here. The change isnt that big.
  • #2
    Oh god, some of those changes i do not understand. I do get the mantra of evasion one unfortunatly. it does however make me sceptical about keeping that one. Think i will most likely change to mantra of conviction aswell now. Should have kept it at 20% tho, 15% is overkill. I might actually consider going for BoH now tho. Like lots of us have discussed, this one needed the spirit cost reduction to be on par or better than the mantra of healing.
  • #3
    It's difficult to comment on certain aspects, because we don't know what the skill rune effects look like now (or at least we won't until we can log in!). So, these might not actually be nerfs after all, especially if the rune effects will come in much earlier, and have base qualities (as opposed to 5 different levels).
  • #4
    Quote from deleo

    Oh god, some of those changes i do not understand. I do get the mantra of evasion one unfortunatly. it does however make me sceptical about keeping that one. Think i will most likely change to mantra of conviction aswell now. Should have kept it at 20% tho, 15% is overkill. I might actually consider going for BoH now tho. Like lots of us have discussed, this one needed the spirit cost reduction to be on par or better than the mantra of healing.


    Well yeah... I can see why they nerfed Mantra of Evasion. 25% Dodge from the Mantra for (or 50% for) 3sec is a pretty overkill in damage reduction. Then again the step from 25% down to 15% seems a little to big. Like you said 20% would be better IMHO. But I guess without knowing Hell/Inferno we cant tell whats to much and what isnt *sigh*.

    Quote from Westicleez

    It's difficult to comment on certain aspects, because we don't know what the skill rune effects look like now (or at least we won't until we can log in!). So, these might not actually be nerfs after all, especially if the rune effects will come in much earlier, and have base qualities (as opposed to 5 different levels).


    Or we are unlucky and our desired rune comes in at lvl 55 xD But then again the runes dont change the fact that the base skills got nerfed. Same with the changes of the passives... runes wont change a thing about them :)

    And I cant wait until somebody posts the new rune effects for the Monk <_
  • #5
    But we can discuss about them endlessly and used past errors in our ways to enlighten us in future discussions?!
    p.s. Tenhi i will check if i can see anything for you tomorrow once i wake up. bedtime now! 5am here im nuts >>
  • #6
    There goes mantra of evasion....
  • #7
    You guys have to remember Mantra of Evasion was like that before the stat change's... Now most monks will be stacking Dex which give's us a lot of +Chance to Dodge soooo....
  • #8
    I think they simply saw that MoE was giving to much dodge in the higher difficulties when combined with the DEX you have from stats and items. I think 15% is a fair number due to the fact that MoE, at least in my opinion was simply the best option of the mantras without much competition, if you take into account that the higher difficulties are not just about a strong offense.

    As for the changes to Dashing Strike, I don't have a problem with them reducing the damage, simply because its not really ever used as a damage ability. For both PvE and PvP it will be you're go to skill that you use to setup your following moves (or put yourself in a position to actually be able to hit something with them). If it has to high a damage modifier, it would lead to much front-load damage from a close to spammable skill.

    BoH, well this was to be expected - The late game scenario of four monks spamming BoH, group healing their way through inferno is probably not a scenario they wanted in the game. 15-seconds is a fair CD, seeing as they upped the heal amount, you now can't rely on BoH as soon as you get yourself in trouble, you need to consider if now is the time to use BoH.

    Overall, I think they didn't do to much or to little in this round of balance for the monk.
  • #9
    These changes are good in some bad in others. The ability to unlock skills or skill runes every level is great. The ability to choose from all the runes is even better. I like not having to hustle, buy or find the only skill runs i want. Also i like how it is being organized and it gives me a reason to level to 60. Yet at the same time you can kiss dodge monks goodbye, the anti nerf of mantra of evasion made it clear to me that i will go with conviction instead. Also i was thinking about dashing strike with the rune that adds to dodge thinking it would be a good combo with evasion but..... sadly not anymore.
  • #10
    I'm certain that these changes were made to create a better balance later in the game. While the monk will be a great class to play, we can't have him be too bad-ass!
    All I know is I am really excited to check out the game when it is finally released, or if I get in the beta (whichever comes first).
  • #11
    I really don't understand why everyone is saying it got nerfed so hard. It was completely unbalanced before. Fifty per cent dodge was way too high, especially now that dodge is based off of dex. I bet you can still get 70+ dodge chance with that skill plus items. If they would have kept it at fifty per cent, then you wouldn't even have to try and you would get 100% dodge chance.

    Although, all of us are just speculating. It's nearly impossible to say what is fair and balanced given our limited knowledge of the enemies were facing. Anyway, if these nerfs are a bit too harsh they can always change it back. The game hasn't even come out yet >.>
  • #12
    Quote from Piffe

    I think they simply saw that MoE was giving to much dodge in the higher difficulties when combined with the DEX you have from stats and items. I think 15% is a fair number due to the fact that MoE, at least in my opinion was simply the best option of the mantras without much competition, if you take into account that the higher difficulties are not just about a strong offense.

    As for the changes to Dashing Strike, I don't have a problem with them reducing the damage, simply because its not really ever used as a damage ability. For both PvE and PvP it will be you're go to skill that you use to setup your following moves (or put yourself in a position to actually be able to hit something with them). If it has to high a damage modifier, it would lead to much front-load damage from a close to spammable skill.

    BoH, well this was to be expected - The late game scenario of four monks spamming BoH, group healing their way through inferno is probably not a scenario they wanted in the game. 15-seconds is a fair CD, seeing as they upped the heal amount, you now can't rely on BoH as soon as you get yourself in trouble, you need to consider if now is the time to use BoH.

    Overall, I think they didn't do to much or to little in this round of balance for the monk.


    I agree with you that the BoH and Dashing Strike Changes are ok. Dashing Strike is, like I already said, primarily a movement skill so the damage is only "nice to have", whats really good (and important) is that they fixed/improved the pathing for the Skill. And the late game BoH probably was to much without a CD... if you think about it 50 Spirit for a Heal without a CD was pretty cheap, considering that we dont really know how fast you can generate Spirit with lvl60. But if you note that they said that they increased the Spiritregen affixe it could very well be that it was too easy to generate the 50 Spirit and spam the Heal. Oh and your 4 Monk scenario is still pretty badass healwise^^ 4 Monks with 4 Heals that have a 15sec CD... thats one heal every 15/4sec = 3.75sec. And BoH now heals more than it did before xD

    So I can agree with those two... what I cant agree with is the Mantra of Evasion. Yeah 25% were to much with the 3sec +25% buff you sit around with 50% Dodge from one skill. But I dont think the change from 25% down to 15% is good. Instead of sitting around with 50%Dodge you now have a max of 30%Dodge... not that 30% is bad but it feels like the weaker choice if you consider other Mantras.

    Also about the Dex thing... I think I saw some screenshots where you saw that you get 10%Dex = 1%Dodge. I would assume that the numbers scale with lvl? Because if it doesnt we could reach 100% Dodge from Dex alone pretty fast. If you think about the heals we get with lvl60 that heal something like 40k HP with one heal (that is/was Crimson Serenity) and you get 10 HP / 1 Vita we would have 4000 Vita. If you can stack up to 4000 Vita you can also stack 4000 Dex... so the ration cant stay 10/1. There are two obvious ways they can handle this... a) a hard cap B) a ratio that changes with lvl. So yeah... can somebody with Beta access look into the ratio?

    Oh and when talking about the Mantra you have to remember that it's calculated multiplivative. So even if you end up with 50% Dodge from the Mantra (thats for 3sec) and 50%Dodge from your Dex at the end of the day you still "only" have 75%Dodge.

    (source: http://us.media1.bat...26836562720.jpg)

    Quote from valkemen

    Link directs to my Polish blog about Monk class, but it has google translator implemented.
    http://szaolin.blogs...-unik-test.html

    Summary of my test:

    Up to 100 points of Dexterity my 13 clvl Monk has to invest 10 points in Dexterity to increase dodge chance by 1%. Above 100 Dex on equipped items, he needs 40 Dex to get 1% of dodge.
    After 140 Dex there is another breakpoint.

    Data:

    Dexterity Dodge %
    91 9,1
    92 9,2
    93 9,3
    94 9,4
    95 9,5
    96 9,6
    97 9,7
    98 9,8
    99 9,9
    100 10
    102 10,05
    104 10,1
    108 10,2
    109 10,23
    111 10,28
    116 10,4
    123 10,58
    131 10,77
    140 11,03
    150 11,25

    source: https://docs.google....UVpNYTZSNWc5OVE

    I will try to update info after beta patch 13 come out, but it depends from my friend, who has beta account.


    From the Theorycrafting Forum... all credits go to valkemen. Its not the way I thought it would be but instead its a formula based on the Dex you have. If the value for 150Dex = 11.25Dodge is correct than it goes from 1/10 -> 1/40 -> 1/45.45(repeating). With that I would guess we wont see too high Dodge numbers without stacking Dex like crazy.
  • #13
    Some of these nerfs pissed me off a little, not gonna lie. Monk is already a fairly fragile char, dont really understand why we needed a nerf to make us potentially even more fragile. Hard to tell how it relates to end game though.
    However I tried out the monk tonight and there are some nerfs as far as I can see in the rune system for Exploding Palm. The rune that used to spread the dot to 5 targets now only spreads to 2, and the rune that used to extend the dot to 7 seconds has been reduced to 5. These probably arnt the only ones, just the ones I had a look at. Anyone know if these will be scaling up as we lvl to 60?
  • #14
    Quote from D4rkBl4ze

    Some of these nerfs pissed me off a little, not gonna lie. Monk is already a fairly fragile char, dont really understand why we needed a nerf to make us potentially even more fragile. Hard to tell how it relates to end game though.
    However I tried out the monk tonight and there are some nerfs as far as I can see in the rune system for Exploding Palm. The rune that used to spread the dot to 5 targets now only spreads to 2, and the rune that used to extend the dot to 7 seconds has been reduced to 5. These probably arnt the only ones, just the ones I had a look at. Anyone know if these will be scaling up as we lvl to 60?


    Reading over Jays post again it looks like they wont scale... at least not with lvl. But there is still this rumor about affixes that affect your Skills. And I hope its true... Exploding Palm Ingdigo going down from 5 to 2 Targets is pretty hard. Even if I can agree that 5 Targets was a little much... going straight down to 2 is a little hard.
  • #15
    After seeing the nerfs, I don't think it would be all that bad. It's still beta stage, and i'm pretty sure they would buff a certain area before release. Since I don't have a beta key yet, I can't test a monk in any way. But my friends say through all the monk's survival abilities, the nerfs don't hurt. So i'm not upset about any of the changes.

    I agree with this.
  • #16
    Well, most of the 'nerfed' abilities cant even be proper tested as the difficulty is well, too easy. Don't know how your friends base their experiences on the short time they can play beta. Before you get most skills you already outleveld most of the mobs there. Regardless, i do think monks well be fine and for build diversity the changes are for the better. I feel like i actually have alot more to choose from without having mandatory abilities set in stone.
  • #17
    I am happy with all the changes except for lashing tail kick. My builds don't get much affected so i am pretty pleased. ;D
  • #18
    Some of the hidden nerfs are devastating to me :P

    Mainly Wave of Light being nerfed so it only does 33% of the weapon damage it did before... It went down to 150% weapon damage on casting and 150% in a line down from 450% and 450% :(
  • #19
    All tho the monk has many nerfs I think there are many things we are overlooking. As it was said earlier in this post that we get dodge from dex so the loss from mantra of evasion may just balance out to being as high as we think it will be.
    Dashing strike getting nerfed is a loss on monk total damage however this skill seems to have more of a use for mobility.
    With exploding palms scaling with your weapon speed ( duel wielding made for a higher DoT) that could mean about a 10% . So if your duel wielding this could bit a bit of a heavyer hit then if your using a 2 handed weapon.
    Breath of heaven seems to be a lot more useful then it was before. The reduced spirit cost, increased healing are welcomed by me. The cooldown I don't really view as a bad things since the skill should not really be used more then every 15 seconds.
    All in all I think these changes will cause us all to go back to the drawing board and rethink our builds. I know at lest I will.

    End Of Line
  • #20
    and this

    When dual-wielding, certain skills will now always use your main-hand weapon to determine damage. For example, Cyclone Strike will use your main-hand weapon damage even if your off-hand weapon is set to swing next


    I am a happy panda.
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes