My post-patch 12 Monk

  • #1
    BIG FAIL! I MEANT POST-PATCH 13 SORRY

    Like the rest of us I was trying to figure out what the best way for me to play the monk was until they crushed most of the skill I thought were good (Mantra of Evasion-Hard Target). So my build wasn't totally incinerated but I knew it wasn't the same and there was better out there.


    Now I'm wondering if people are at all interested in builds because now you can't use all the skills at low levels in the early game. When the game comes out we will all be trying to figure out what the best skill CHANGES are as the monk progresses but I still have my eye on the prize. I still have my focus on the end game builds where I can choose any skill and if anyone is still interested in that, lets discuss...



    This is the Co-op version of the build


    http://us.battle.net...XjcR!fZU!ZYbaZc



    How I will play it

    I plan to make good use of the 3 second bonuses on the mantras. I was going to do it with evasion but now I see mantra of conviction being a better candidate. With overawe I think the +48% damage is well worth the cost of spamming a mantra. With spamming mantras I have realized that attack speed is critical to build up the extra spirit to allow you still use other skill. To get this speed I plan on dual wielding.


    I will be using Fist of thunder-lighting flash because it's really fast and has an easy to use defensive (+16%Dodge) element to it. Since I am dual wielding I will synergize the dodge bonus with guardians path, since it did get a buff in patch 13. These two dodge buffs will add a nice tanky flavor to the build and give a more useful dodge bonus than mantra of evasion ever could.

    On the topic of defense I will use all of my passive to boost my defensive viability. In the CO-OP build I link you I have Guiding Light because playing well with you allies is good defense and offense. Guiding light rewards you for being an awesome team player. However solo I would switch it out of Seize the Initiative. One with everything just looks so useful and unique to the monks defensive capabilities.

    I included BoH for the healing and I prefer the mechanics as it is now. Blazing wrath is going to synergize nicely Mantra of Conviction and guiding light to turn up the heat on my enemies.

    I saved the damage dealing element spirit spending for the end, I hope you're still following me. There is nothing special about the cyclone strike-lashing tailkick combo. Even though soothing breeze took a big nerf to damage and health boost (its still an expensive skill lols jks) I'm going to use it anyways to trigger guiding light. After the cyclone strike hits I blow the enemies back with a sweeping armada.

    The choice of Tsunami on crippling wave was to increase the AOE and CC elements of the skill.

    Let me know what you think.
    Did your pre patch 13 build survive the nerf tsunami?
  • #2
    Your build is actually close to mine, par fists of thunder as skill and the rune in crippling wave, cyclone strike and lashing tail kick. Next to that i have resolve, seize the initiative and guardians path in mine. Obviously mine is aimed towards soloing, else i had most likely chosen guiding light aswell. Currently i think (disregarding co-op) resolve is too good to skip, that one is set in stone for me.

    I ditched the idea of having combination strike and went back to CW only with the mangle rune. Seeing this is the prime source of your damage the extra weapondamage modifier would most likely outscale any passive or +dmg modifiers available. Cause it adds to the source of which all other damage modifers calculate their damage. ie; synergy. Obviously this does not boost the damage of spirit spenders but the other choice of 10% damage to all attacks does not stack up multiplicative with mantra of conviction. I expect CW to be over 50% of all my damage. So a 30% increase to the basedamage of the skill outweighs 10% as a debuff on mobs. Guess i should let math do the talking at some point, but cba to do that now. About tsunami, i guess the slow is nice but with a knockback in lashing tail kick providing some control, you think you need that? Seeing you have no resolve, it would be alot better - imho - to pick up concussion.

    Currently im debating wether to use one slot for either dash, or exploding palm. Palm is one of the highest single target spells on 3rd hits and quite a viable AOE spell aswell. It shows 50% weapondamage on the skill every second for 3 second. But on beta this scales enourmous when youre dualweilding. Think you can expect atleast 100% or so with some half decent gear. This means a 300% weapondamage hit to singletargets, followed by a potential explosion. Runed with flesh is weak for better single target damage or strong spirit for better AOE.

    Next to that, lashing tail kick is now a great spirit dump, so most my healing (with healing per spirit spent from items, not transcendance yet) will come from this and breath of heaven. Runed it with spinning flame kick to get more damage out of it, and actually hit more targets with it. Plus, turning it into a range attack. I do like the idea of sweeping armada tho, seems like a lifesaver. Because i took breath of heaven, i didnt really care for the 4000 heal the cyclone strike rune provides, its rather lame. Instead took up the rune that lowers the spirit cost from 75 to 45 as i dont have a superfast spiritgenerating attack. Turning it into a great AOE dump and giving some control in co-op.

    To answer your last question tho, my build hardly survived the patch 13 tsunami. I ditched almost everything, kept some abilities but changed their runes and pretty much changed 2/3 of my passives depending if i play co-op or not. In this state i still want to play monk, but the idea of a lifeleech berserker barb sounds way more appealing to me at this stage. Luckily im gonna be lvling 2 chars at the same time solo/co-op.

    I think your build will most likely work well enough it has some great synergy, but im not sure how much of a facebeating you 'might' get without seize the initiave / resolve / concussion. Nobody really knows how much damage were gonna take in inferno. But my gutfeeling says well need atleast 1-2 abilities and 1 passive devoted to 'passive' damage reduction. I also believe One with everything is easily replaced by gear, unlike some other passives.

    edit: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#VWXjcR!aZX!aababa that build im gonna most likely be running with.
  • #3
    If you pay attention to skills they nerf you can see which ones are getting abused in their closed testing. Resolve was one of them taking a 5% hit. One with everything is pretty valuable chances are at least one of your resistances will be lacking even with decent gear (+all resistance stats will probably be rare). The question is one can turn on this passive like a switch, use resolve normally and then turn one one with everything when you know some elemental bastards are coming.

    I think seize the initiative is going to take a SECRET hit. It got an upgrade from 20%?? to 100% at the same time I'm noticing the armor numbers on guide are being changed. I think the values on some armor items might go up balancing out the big upgrade. If the skill adds the equivalent of another torso armor to my defense I'll take it, any less and I'll drop it. If this is the case I will go with Resolve-Guardian's Path-One with everything.

    Yeah I only ditched combo strike because the build doesn't really focusing in on combo action and I already had more than enough damage buffs.

    Stay with exploding palm.

    The lashing tail kick and cyclone strike combo is going to take some tuning but I'd say that eye of the storm is the best skill for that combo. For the price of single cyclone strike you get CS+LTK. I'll see how litle 5000 health really is. Even if we have 50000 health thats still 10% health.

    Yeah the patch had me thinking about starting with a witch doctor or a wizard but we will see.
  • #4
    Hmm the build looks ok so far. There are only a few things that I would change.

    One thing is Cyclone Strike... you said it yourself: Its expensive and the damage/heal got nerfed hard. Talking about HP... my lvl13 Monk has exactly 100 Vita and 1088 HP... that is with the crafted gear from Beta... the gear should be ~ilvl8 (some are lvl9 some lvl12, 2 are even only lvl3). So with lvl13 we have ~1k HP and *drumroll* Breath of Heaven heals a mighty 139 - 182 HP... the lvl6 potion (that only drops from some mobs before the SK) heal 150HP. If you think about that... Breath of Heaven heals an average 160 HP at lvl13 and we have 1000 HP... thats 16%. If we asume that the Inferno values are something close to that... then we end up with 100k HP (lol)... and healing 4.5k of 100k HP isnt really worth it. (Also look at the lvl58 potion http://us.battle.net...c-health-potion it heals 35k). So what do we get? A skill that costs us 75 Spirit and does 150%dmg as AoE and heals 4.5k... IMHO thats not worth the slot. What else to take... I dunno. If you want to be a teamplayer you could consider Serenity with Tranquility rune (extends the effect to allies).

    The other thing has something to do with the (maybe) changed Cyclone Strike. IF you change Cyclone Strike I would also change the rune for Lashing Tail Kick. There are again multiple possibilities... either increase your damage if you change Cyclone Strike to something defensive or take keep the rune and choose an other offensive ability for Cyclone Strike.

    One thing to consider with all this is that Guiding Light lasts 15sec and BoH has a 15sec CD... so you would have to keep BoH on CD if you want to keep the buff up... not sure if that is a smart choice :( Well not sure about my own thougts xD If you change Cyclone Strike it looks like Guiding Light loses some worth because you cant keep the buff up... so yeah... you would have to change that too. And that was a big part of the teamplayer thingy...



    And about your question... patch 13 completly broke my build. I'm litteraly back at square one. I'm was considering to change my first class... but yeah after some thoughts I think I will stay with the Monk. Lets say its a challenge to do something awesome with the skills we have right now xD. I dont have a build yet... but I think I'll have one in a few days :)

    EDIT:
    Quote from deleo

    Currently im debating wether to use one slot for either dash, or exploding palm. Palm is one of the highest single target spells on 3rd hits and quite a viable AOE spell aswell. It shows 50% weapondamage on the skill every second for 3 second. But on beta this scales enourmous when youre dualweilding. Think you can expect atleast 100% or so with some half decent gear. This means a 300% weapondamage hit to singletargets, followed by a potential explosion. Runed with flesh is weak for better single target damage or strong spirit for better AOE.


    I just tested some things about the DoT... and it seems that it directly scales with attack speed. For some basic tests I crafted two Daggers... one with 1.5 Attacks/sec and one roled 5%IAS and ended up with 1.59 Attacks/sec. As reference I used the unarmed attackspeed and my 2 Axes with 1.39 Attack/sec. I tried some combinations with those weapons:
    • 1.00 Attacks/sec - 50%dmg DoT
    • 1.50 Attacks/sec - 75%dmg DoT
    • 1.60 Attacks/sec - 80%dmg DoT
    • 1.72 Attacks/sec - 86%dmg DoT
    • 1.81 Attacks/sec - 90%dmg DoT
    If you look at this the "formula" for the DoT damage is quite easy to calculate... its just "attack/sec time 50%dmg" ... with that in mind we can predict what we get in endgame gear :) Oh and the reason it scales with attack speed is quite obvious... if you attack too fast you will "cut off" the DoT i.e. you re-apply the DoT before the last tick goes of... so instead of ticking 3 times for 50%dmg it ticks 2 times for 75%dmg or something like this. That is if you cut the DoT off and dont switch your target for the 2nd DoT.

    Things I have to test is if attackspeed boni that dont come from your gear affect the DoT i.e. if Frenzy Shrine has an affect on the Skill. If it does affect the skill the DoT can get pretty high. If Frenzy doesnt affect the DoT then the higher damage is just there to compensate for the lower damage of faster weapons and not for the "cutting".

    I think seize the initiative is going to take a SECRET hit. It got an upgrade from 20%?? to 100% at the same time I'm noticing the armor numbers on guide are being changed. I think the values on some armor items might go up balancing out the big upgrade. If the skill adds the equivalent of another torso armor to my defense I'll take it, any less and I'll drop it. If this is the case I will go with Resolve-Guardian's Path-One with everything.


    Looking at the beta again. I have 104 Dex with complet MF/GF gear. If you really want to go for Dex it gets way higher (150+ Dex). Compared to that my chest armor has 33 Armor (lvl8)... a lvl19 chest armor has 69 Armor and a lvl25 has 87 Armor. So one with everything would give me way more than one chest armor. Looking at the craftable shields its more like an additional shield... so yeah I think Seize the Initiative is worth it :)
  • #5
    So I took the time and thought about my own build. This is what I ended up with http://us.battle.net...cXkj!XZU!cYYbca

    Spirit Generators:

    1) Exploding Palm: Crimson (Impending Doom) - Well I like the looks of Exploding Palm xD but thats not the only reason why I took it. First thing the 30%HP bomb is a pretty decent AoE. It also has the advantage of not getting "weaker" while leveling because it scales with the Mobs HP and not with your damage. If our weapondamage outscales the average mobs HP in Inferno (I dont think that will happen...) I would take the Alabaster rune (Essence Burn). For now I go with Impending Doom because of two things... first thing is that it allows me to do other things without the DoT (and my potential bomb) droping... like healing, repositioning or something like that. The 2nd reason is that it allows me to use my 2nd Spirit Gens 3rd attack more often (because I dont have to reapply the DoT every 3sec).

    2) Way of the Hundred Fists: Alabaster (Windforce Flurry) - My bread and butter skill. I dont know all the facts about the skill because we cant test it but I assume that the "hidden" attack speed mode is quite high (well the skill looks/feels fast...). Also the skill IMHO has some nice things to it. First thing it has the highest damage of 125%dmg... also the 2nd strike is a great tool to get crit/on-hit things going (like the new stun on hit etc) even after they nerfed it down to 7 hits (was 8... you only see the change if you look at the first rune (lol)). A sad thing is that its not 7*125%dmg (like Seven Sided Strike^^) but 7 strikes with 125/7 %dmg... would be imba if it were the first one *g. Well and the last thing is that the 3rd attack is an AoE attack that (runed) does 250%dmg in front of me... and that from a Spirit Gen that I can spam forever Oo. From the Vid it looks like the AoE has a decent radius (an other thing that I dont know for sure :(). That rune is also the reason why I took Impending Doom for Exploding Palm... I want to use the 3rd Strike for WotHF as much as possible and a longer DoT duration allows me to cast Exploding Palm less often.

    I considered Fists of Thunder with either Thunderclap or Lightning Flash instead of Way of the Hundred Fists... but I'll have to see if I like the 35%dmg 6yard AoE that you get with the Teleport or if I need the higher defense that I get from Lightning Flash. The thing that I dont like about the Tunderclap is that it turns the skill into a smallscale (low)damage AoE... so in a singletarget fight I have nothing to spam that does decent damage :(

    Mantra:

    1) Mantra of Conviction: Crimson (Overawe) - Well that was a hard decision and I'm not too sure if I'll keep it like that. The thing is after the Mantra nerfs I think that the Alabster rune (Intimidation) isnt worth it :( The other runes for Mantra of Conviction dont strike me as that good either... so I stuck with a rather obvious choice of more damage. Even if its kinda sad that the now runed version is only a little better than the old unruned skill xD

    The other Mantra I was considering was Mantra of Evasion with Hard Target (Obsidian). The Dodge would help my defense and the Obsidian rune would synergize well with Seize the Initiative. The thing is I dont know yet if we need so much defense... so yeah its my "I die to fast" option :)

    Spirit Spender:

    1) Mystic Ally: Obsidian (Earth Ally) - Hrm... I guess I'm just a fan of the ability. Even after it got nerfed down to 10%HP :(. The thing is I think its still a great defensive ability that offers a small offensive part. The Earthy Ally increases my HP by 10% and gives me a Pet that does two things for me: It taunts enemies giving me some room and it will (hopefully) bind some enemies even without the taunt. So overall its like a 2nd Templar^^. The small offensive part is the 40%dmg it does... not to much but then again its like a passive that deals constant damage.

    2) Breath of Heaven: Obsidian (Blazing Wrath) - My main defensive ability. With the added CD but increased Heal (and lower cost) this ability really got better in my eyes. Well not that much to say about it. The Obsidian rune is a pretty good damge modifier giving +15%dmg for 45sec... I also like the long duration of the buff. That allows us to not cast the ability on CD just to keep the buff up... and if we really fear that we need the heal in the next 15sec we can just wait the 15sec and still have 30sec of our buff. Again if I need more defense I would either use the Indigo (Circle of Life) or the Alabaster (Penitent Flame) rune... but thats again something we dont know yet.

    3) Lashing Tail Kick: Alabaster (Scorpion Sting) - It looks like Lashing Tail Kick is our best (or one of the best) Spirit Spenders after Patch 13 hit us. Looking at the Beta I can hit 3-5 enemies per use for 200%dmg each. That sounds pretty good for 30 Spirit. The low cost without a CD allows us to spam the skill pretty frequent. Thats also the reason for my rune choice... with the Alabaster rune I get a 1sec stun with every use. 1sec doesnt sound like much... but if the mechanics for the beta are the same as for the retail version we can stun bosses and elite mobs. With that in mind I can use the 1sec stun to interupt boss skills (thats pretty imba if you ask me Oo). For example you can stun the Skeleton King before he is able to summon his minions... if that works with other bosses and their skills that would be pretty imba. If it doesnt work... I'll change the rune to either Spinning Flame Kick or Vulture Claw Kick. Spining Flame Kick does more damage on the first look... then again it changes the mechanic and until I know exactly how it works I will use Vulture Claw Kick :) Also with Vulture Claw you keep the knockback... if I need that.^^

    Other Spenders... hmm. If Mystic Ally isnt worth it I will change it for Seven Sided Strike with Sudden Assault. Funny is that the Indigo rune increases the strikes from 7 to 9... and 9*111%dmg is 999%. Whats funny about that is that Sudden Assault deals more damage... and you get the teleport

    Passives:

    1) Seize the Initiative - see post above. Its a pretty large defense buff.

    2) One with Everything - It gives me more room for other affixes. So yeah... a pretty obvious defense buff.

    3) Guardian's Path - After the buff its a pretty good defense bonus. Giving me a flat 15% Dodge while dualwielding. My only other source of Dodge is my Dex so the multiplicative nature of dodge wont hurt me that much. It also gives me the +25% Spirit if I ever use a 2H Weapon Oo

    Other passives... well there is Resolve. But that has one flaw if you pair it with my build. I have nothing to debuff ranged mobs fast. So the ranged mobs wouldnt be affected by Resolve and thus deal their full damage. Now if you consider that the Guardians Path should be better. Its not a 25%damage reduction but only 15% but its way more constant. Overall I want 3 defensive passive because that should allow me the more offensive Mantra/rune choices.

    PS: wtf Wall of Text :/ Also if you managed to read through all this I'm open for suggestions :)
  • #6
    i will use cyclone strike with rune that increases its AOE.
    Why ?

    Will be usefull for stacking mobs in one place and then burning them down with fiery chuck norris kicks.

    + some holy damage.
  • #7
    Quote from cl_ogar0

    i will use cyclone strike with rune that increases its AOE.
    Why ?

    Will be usefull for stacking mobs in one place and then burning them down with fiery chuck norris kicks.

    + some holy damage.
    yes it will be very usefull for stacking mobs in one place ... u are smart :D
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