Combination Strike!

  • #1
    So wait what? Combination Strike seems pretty weak, only 8% big deal, but wait. If you read into the ability it stats exactly that each different generator will provide an 8% bonus. Now we all know a monk has 6 generators 6*8=48%!

    Okay, okay I have a feeling I am moving a bit fast. First off the theory for the build is that you get one stack for performing a spirit generator that lasts for 3 seconds. Good start. Now the main assumption that is made when I created this build was that if you keep performing spirit generators it would obviously refresh, however switching to a different one will add a second stack to the first and refresh the duration.

    So basically the build comes down to a very simple idea. Weave different spirit generators to get stacks.

    Simply put because you can use ANY spirit generator to build a combo and the last one of the three will have the intended effect you can build stacks of the damage buff at the same time you get the desired effect off any generator.

    Edit: http://us.battle.net...ekXR!ZXg!cZZZcb

    That is the build. To really get to know whats going on you need to take a close look at how the combos work.

    Lets say you are in a heavy AOE situation. Leading with Way allows you to get a extra bit of range on the first attack. Follow it with your second attack being crippling wave to get an initial burst of AOE damage and end it with Sweeping Wind to get a high AOE output buff started right from the get go. From here on your rotation should become whatever the situation calls for while keeping your stacks up!

    Same goes for single target except you need to focus more on getting your finishing moves to be from Way or Exploding Palm.

    Obviously the build had to try its hardest to be very simple because of the quite complex mechanics used to generate the buff. That is why the mantra and Breath of Heaven are put on there. If you mess something up you should at least be spirit capped constantly and thus Breath can be used quite often to keep going in the face of Hell.

    I do not know exactly where this build is in terms of damage output. Since some spells like Seven Sided Strike can output insane single target and Wave of Light doing some amazing AOE in its own right it is hard to really say if not having these would gimp the build too much. Than again having the buff from Combination Strike may balance it out just enough that it does not seem all that bad.

    I am really curious of what everyone thinks of this one. Especially in regards to the mantra and Breath of Heaven. I can see Blinding Flash being good too but the cool down makes it a little meeh to me.
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  • #2
    if you want damage % bonus in a way easier way there is always:

    "Increases all damage done by 12% for 45 seconds after Breath of Heaven is used."
    "The third strike of Deadly Reach increases the damage of all attacks by 30% for 30 seconds."
  • #3
    Quote from dtobbot

    if you want damage % bonus in a way easier way there is always:

    I understand this completely, however with this build you not only generate a stack of 32% more damage but you achieve it in under 3 seconds (assuming you use a different combo move for each attack for the first 4 attacks) and it will stay staked for the entirety of the fight. There were some other options that I was thinking however. As you mentioned Deadly Reach but there is also the bonus from Way.

    Remember the build was to make Combination Strike work as a viable damage source and than create a build around that. Not take the easy way out.
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  • #4
    I think 4 Spirit generators will be to much. You need to change the order for the three combo levels every time to get the full effect and i think it isn't worth it. If you want full use of combination strike pick 3 Spirit generators that give you good buffs and debuff and plan to use them on a specific combo level. For example Deadly Strike with Crimson Rune for the third strike to give you 30% more damage, Way of a Hundred Fists with Crimson for first Strike and Breaking Wave with Alabaster for second. Propably pure DPS Builds will include Combination Strike.
  • #5
    Quote from azuresky808

    Quote from dtobbot

    if you want damage % bonus in a way easier way there is always:

    Remember the build was to make Combination Strike work as a viable damage source and than create a build around that. Not take the easy way out.


    I think that the idea to use Combination Strike means playing around with +% damage. So personally I would try to take that from anywhere I could to make Combo Strike that much better. I think of the abilitiy as a starting point for a build that stacks +% damage instead of already having insane damage like Wave of Light and Seven Sided Strike.

    Down-side? Takes more effort to do the same amount of damage (maybe).

    Up-side? I feel like it could possinly surpass those 2 abilities in damage (and possibly utility?) with that extra effort if the build is built with enough +% weapon damage.

    Just my 2 cents, I think it's a really cool build you got there,
  • #6
    I'm not sure about this; but don't all monk generators (combinations) end after the 3rd strike, and then restart when you use it the 4th time? If this is the case you would have to juggle your abilities by alternating every combo in order to maintain the bonus without it dropping.

    It might look something like this (assuming the #s are your generator skill slots):
    123 124 123 124

    Even then you may not be able to maintain the +8% from using 3 and 4 after one combo. Although with the buff lasting 3 seconds, you most likely can at end game since you'll be attacking faster (I assume).

    In my opinion -- this requires too much effort for a minimal bonus. There's easier ways to acquire a bonus like this.
    Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
  • #7
    Quote from Glowyrm

    Down-side? Takes more effort to do the same amount of damage (maybe).

    Up-side? I feel like it could possinly surpass those 2 abilities in damage (and possibly utility?) with that extra effort if the build is built with enough +% weapon damage.


    Exactly the same problem I see too. The combinations should not be that hard (honestly some rotations I've had to deal with in WoW are more complex than it). It may be able to produce decent damage but I don't know if loosing some of the other abilities are worth it. I'm gonna do some math in a little bit to really see how much potential damage it does compared to a more standard build and post it up.

    Quote from Nastai

    It might look something like this (assuming the #s are your generator skill slots):
    123 124 123 124


    Yes the rotation would be something like that.

    In theory, and judging from other blizz games, when you perform a spirit generator it will give one stack of the buff and refresh it. When you use a different one it will add a stack (up to the max of 6 because reusing the same move should not work by the description) and refresh the buff once again. The only time you need to worry about dropping a stack is when you move away from an enemy or use a non spirit generator.

    Once again this is just the theory I am not saying this is exact, but that is how the skill reads. Until we have more knowledge I can't say for sure if this build will work. So people reading this please remember, WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS! Don't use it until we find out, and don't blame me either :P
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  • #8
    My build uses combination strike and uses 3 generaters. I though about using 4 but then i ran into a problem about utility. Taking that 4th generator in order to get +8% damage was not quite worth it in my eyes. the ability could be put elsewhere and be more effective. As it was said early in this thread you could use the obsidian rune in breath of heaven for more damage. The ability could be used for a mobility skill or something like inner sanctuary or serenity.

    End Of Line
  • #9
    So a good friend of mine recently let me play his D3 beta and I'm liking the monk even more. Now that I now how the generators work and how you mix up generators in combos this passive skill is far more viable than I previously thought. I found myself almost always mixing different generators. 4 generators is too much, 2 spenders 1 mantra and 3 generators is looking good to me.
  • #10
    Quote from AFd3

    So a good friend of mine recently let me play his D3 beta and I'm liking the monk even more. Now that I now how the generators work and how you mix up generators in combos this passive skill is far more viable than I previously thought. I found myself almost always mixing different generators. 4 generators is too much, 2 spenders 1 mantra and 3 generators is looking good to me.

    I see someone likes the same generators as I do.

    End Of Line
  • #11
    Quote from Rym

    My build uses combination strike and uses 3 generaters. I though about using 4 but then i ran into a problem about utility. Taking that 4th generator in order to get +8% damage was not quite worth it in my eyes. the ability could be put elsewhere and be more effective. As it was said early in this thread you could use the obsidian rune in breath of heaven for more damage. The ability could be used for a mobility skill or something like inner sanctuary or serenity.

    Quote from AFd3

    So a good friend of mine recently let me play his D3 beta and I'm liking the monk even more. Now that I now how the generators work and how you mix up generators in combos this passive skill is far more viable than I previously thought. I found myself almost always mixing different generators. 4 generators is too much, 2 spenders 1 mantra and 3 generators is looking good to me.


    I like this advice. I changed the build a little bit (actually uses the exact same generators now that both of you use). Changing Breath to Obsidian and some of the runes on the generators. I guess the question really comes down to what spender. Wave of Light has a higher potential than Lashing Tail but it leaves you with less spirit for Breath. The main reason why I don't take Dashing Strike is that you can get almost the same effect from Way (although we really do not know what the runes do yet).

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UiekXR!ZXg!cZZZcb

    Those are the changes. What do ya think?
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  • #12
    That build looks better to me. Having 3 generators and 3 other skills adds a nice feel to it in my opinion. If I had to nit pick and say " that could be a issue" I would have to say wave of light is a lot of spirit and you may not be able to keep using it as you would want. I very well could be wrong . It all depends on just how much spirit you end up getting.

    I could go on for hours refining builds. I did that with mine. xD

    End Of Line
  • #13
    Quote from Rym

    That build looks better to me. Having 3 generators and 3 other skills adds a nice feel to it in my opinion. If I had to nit pick and say " that could be a issue" I would have to say wave of light is a lot of spirit and you may not be able to keep using it as you would want. I very well could be wrong . It all depends on just how much spirit you end up getting.

    I could go on for hours refining builds. I did that with mine. xD


    Ya I was thinking of playing that and seeing how much hatred I generate. If it seems there are better options than Wave I might take them but as it stands 7SS and Wave are the top 2 DPS per spirit, 7SS leading out with Indigo for single targets and Wave if you have 3+ targets.

    Yes I have spent so many hours on my Null Hatred Generator build http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34341-no-hatred-generators/ so much math x.x
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  • #14
    I though about putting seven sided strike with an indigo rune in my build but alas there was not room. With a indigo rune sever sided strike should be used as more then a single target skill. With its many strikes it is pretty much a AoE. You hitting an enemy twice if not 3 times per enemy in a group.

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  • #15
    Didn't know you can chain and mix generators that way ^^

    Using 3 different spirit generators give a +24% overall damage boost, which is at the same level as other damage boost passives of all classes. (Glass Canon, Pierce the Veil, etc). All of them have the bonus and a downside.
    If you really want to abuse Combinations Strike, try to find a five generators build :D
  • #16
    Quote from Axtroz

    Didn't know you can chain and mix generators that way ^^

    Using 3 different spirit generators give a +24% overall damage boost, which is at the same level as other damage boost passives of all classes. (Glass Canon, Pierce the Veil, etc). All of them have the bonus and a downside.
    If you really want to abuse Combinations Strike, try to find a five generators build :D

    The problem is then your at a lack of utility and in the end survivability. Its more then just how many generators can we get , its also about what other skill slots do I have left.

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  • #17
    Quote from Rym

    Quote from Axtroz

    Didn't know you can chain and mix generators that way ^^

    Using 3 different spirit generators give a +24% overall damage boost, which is at the same level as other damage boost passives of all classes. (Glass Canon, Pierce the Veil, etc). All of them have the bonus and a downside.
    If you really want to abuse Combinations Strike, try to find a five generators build :D

    The problem is then your at a lack of utility and in the end survivability. Its more then just how many generators can we get , its also about what other skill slots do I have left.


    That is exactly my problem... I like the idea of Combination Strikes and builds with 3 or more Spirit Generators... but I always run into problems with only 2 Spirit Spender (plus one Mantra) :(

    For example I really want Obsidian Mystic Ally because +50%HP seems too good to pass it. If I now have 1 Mantra and 1 Spender (that is Mystic Ally) I only have room for 1 more Spender... and a defensive Spender is imho needed for higher dificulties... so if I take BoH (just an example) I end up with a build without any offensive Spenders

    Then again the question is if you really need an offensive Spender if you use Combination Strike... most of your damage comes from your Generators anyways... so you could go for something without an offensive Spender and completely rely on your Gens as damage source. Something like this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#ieUXQR!XgU!ZcYcca

    If you compare something like this with other builds that only use 1 or 2 Spirit Gens you have way more room for your Spenders. Also you can choose an other passive. In the end I feel that Combination Strike + 3 Gens is way to restrictive for my liking :(
  • #18
    Quote from Rym

    I though about putting seven sided strike with an indigo rune in my build but alas there was not room. With a indigo rune sever sided strike should be used as more then a single target skill. With its many strikes it is pretty much a AoE. You hitting an enemy twice if not 3 times per enemy in a group.


    Don't forget 7SS with indigo still only hits 1 target per hit for 155% damage. If you really want to use it for AOE use alabaster. Hitting 11 instead of 7 times gives you 640% weapon damage extra where as hitting 4 targets with alabaster on gives 840% damage. (this is damage beyond the initial 7 hits).

    7SS with indigo can put out a total of 1760% max between targets because it only hits 11 times and each time hits one target (at random)

    Wave of light only hits for a total of 900% but has no cool down. However both halves of the damage component can hit multiple targets. Hitting only 2 targets with both parts totals 1800%.

    It is plain as day that 7SS is only really meant for AOE when used with Onyx or Alabaster because of the nature of the runes allow for higher AOE output as more targets are present. If any other rune is affixed it really should only be when there are 2 or less targets. Wave scales much faster with the amount of targets even when 7SS is done with alabaster.

    Basically AOE = wave. Single target = 7SS.

    Personally I like 7SS with alabaster better. It covers single target and AOE situations quite nicely, however I am more concerned with the amount of spirit you generate with the build. If it is too high I would rather have Wave because of the lack of a cool down.
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  • #19
    Quote from Tenhi

    Then again the question is if you really need an offensive Spender if you use Combination Strike... most of your damage comes from your Generators anyways...


    Imagine getting 24% more damage when using something like Wave of Light on 4 or 5 targets. Honestly I feel this build will become a very high DPS build. The downfall of it is the lack of surviveability. I guess it will be one of those builds that we will not really know how good it is until we get our hands on the game proper. Especially in Inferno difficulty.
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  • #20
    Quote from azuresky808

    Don't forget 7SS with indigo still only hits 1 target per hit for 155% damage. If you really want to use it for AOE use alabaster. Hitting 11 instead of 7 times gives you 640% weapon damage extra where as hitting 4 targets with alabaster on gives 840% damage. (this is damage beyond the initial 7 hits).

    7SS with indigo can put out a total of 1760% max between targets because it only hits 11 times and each time hits one target (at random)

    Wave of light only hits for a total of 900% but has no cool down. However both halves of the damage component can hit multiple targets. Hitting only 2 targets with both parts totals 1800%.

    It is plain as day that 7SS is only really meant for AOE when used with Onyx or Alabaster because of the nature of the runes allow for higher AOE output as more targets are present. If any other rune is affixed it really should only be when there are 2 or less targets. Wave scales much faster with the amount of targets even when 7SS is done with alabaster.

    Basically AOE = wave. Single target = 7SS.

    Personally I like 7SS with alabaster better. It covers single target and AOE situations quite nicely, however I am more concerned with the amount of spirit you generate with the build. If it is too high I would rather have Wave because of the lack of a cool down.


    First thing first... its 160% and not 155%. And there are multiple things to consider if you talk about 7SS. The thing is you are immune to damage while the strike is animated... well at least thats what it looks like, that is also the reason it has a cooldown... so that you cant spam it (and stay immune for a long time)... if that all is true 7SS also acts as a XY sec immunity Spell. I dont know how long the animation is but if you look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKOmX4oDAUE&feature=youtu.be it looks quite long if you hit 7 targets. If you combine the immunity with "+HP/Spirit Spend" Items its a quite nice Spender even with the 30sec CD.

    Well and on the topic of runes... thats a hard choice. Indigo seems to add extremly high dmg in every situation. You could hit 11 targets for 160% or 1 target for 1760%dmg (or any number in between for 160% times X dmg). What I was wondering about the Alabaster rune is if you get the 30%AoE dmg even if you only have 1 enemy... i.e. if you Strike one enemy for 160% will he also be hit by the AoE that the strike produces? If the AoE also hits the initial target Alabaster would be extremly good even in single target situations (it would effectivly increase the damage to 190%)... but I'm not sure if that is the case. The wording indicates that it only does damage "around" the target that you initialy hit. Next is the Crimson rune... it increases the damage per hit to 208% and adds an teleport (my favorite rune for 7SS). It may not be the highest damage you can get but the teleport sounds intresting... it allows you to teleport to ranged/caster mobs to finish them off... if you look at the Vid I posted it looks like you normaly simply strike enemies that are in a XY yard radius around you. Obsidian is a pretty good CC Version of 7SS... but then again I would probably prefer more damage for my damage Spender ;).

    Quote from azuresky808

    Quote from Tenhi

    Then again the question is if you really need an offensive Spender if you use Combination Strike... most of your damage comes from your Generators anyways...


    Imagine getting 24% more damage when using something like Wave of Light on 4 or 5 targets. Honestly I feel this build will become a very high DPS build. The downfall of it is the lack of surviveability. I guess it will be one of those builds that we will not really know how good it is until we get our hands on the game proper. Especially in Inferno difficulty.


    Talking about survivability... you should maybe consider the Obsidian Rune for Crippling Wave. Decreasing your enemies damage by 40% all the time (because you will use Crippling Wave pretty often...) seems to be a very good way to increase your survivability.

    If you consider Obsidian Crippling Wave you would end up with something like this:
    1. Strike - Crimson Way of the Hundred Fists (Dash + DoT)
    2. Strike - Crippling Wave (40%reduced damage + AoE)
    3. Strike - alternating Crippling Wave/Exploding Palm (40%reduced damage + -35%attackspeed + -50%movementspeed + AoE // 15%dmg increase + 30%HP Bomb)
    Edit: On a side note.. the 3rd Exploding Palm Strike only adds the DoT... it doesnt do the 100%damage. And I would consider a diffrent rune for Exploding Palm... Exploding Palm is all about high AoE Damage (30% HP Bomb)... so IMHO Indigo is the best rune you can get for it. But that is only my opinion :)

    Edit2: If I were to use Combination Strike I would go for something like this http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#ieUjQR!XYg!ZcYZca using the Strike order from above. As long as 7SS is on CD I would use Mantra of Conviction for the 3sec 20%damage increase (it also heals a small amount through Transcendence).
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