I'm seeing folks (Monks specifically) high on the leader boards using the standard Uliana's six piece SSS build - which includes Broken Promises in the Cube.
I'm doing the same and thus far can't seem to get the DPS to get past GR52. Now I don't have an ancient Fist or Lions, so that's a big part of it. but I feel the other half of the issue is the lack of Crit and the lack of proc on Broken Promises.
For giggles, I did a T10 rift with the character screen open and sat in a group of mobs, just using WothF generator attack. I waited to see the sheet dps jump from 300k to 1.5M. I punched and punched and punched and no jump really in dps. I then hit SSS and immediately the DPS jumped, at the end of the SSS attack and by the time SSS was off of cooldown, the sheet dps was back to around 300K.
I know the ring procs at different times during fights, but it seems so spotty at best that you can't really time your SSS attacks around it. And I feel that has to be an integral part of being able to progress. I have no crit anywhere else and it appears that you start with a base of 5%.
So there was a monk, rank 2 for the monk solo leader boards and they didn't use Broken Promises, but Covention of Elements in its place and they had crit in all the usual places.
So any suggestions on how to play around the proc, to time it, expect it, etc? Anyone else having trouble with this?
I've cleared a 53 within a decent amount of time. But that was before I even had broken promise. Like the guy above me said you need CDR everywhere. Im on my phone so I can't link my monks profile but you can look up my btag Grindnloot#1410. I haven't been pushing anymore just yet because I've been lvling gems. But I know I can easily push past my 53. I will say playing with the broken promise is annoying trying to hit at the proc. but from what I see you just spam SSS on cd anyways.
The lack of the two fist weapons means you are missing half the damage of SSS and half the damage of the exploding palms. The biggest hit is not having the lions claw how ever, getting these I would image jump you up in rifts alone.
When it comes to the ring, I am on the fence about it like most, but I have seen both arguments and you can do it with or without the broken promises. I just changed the gem in my helm to a diamond and use that. It might slow you down some but eventually you will find a balance. Your biggest thing is the fist weapons. You are missing so much of your damage by not having those. At the least half.
Also do you have the Diabo that reduces the cool down of SSS by 40-60%? It also makes a huge difference. I remember getting that and jumping up almost 5 Greater Rifts. That was lower rifts but still shows that it makes a difference.
3 thing. you have zero CHD, no CDR. and no ancient weaps. This is why you are stuck at your wall. Area damage is only stronger when you hit at least 10 mobs. CHD has the sustain of the dps. what the heck is the point in having 100% CHC when you proc BP and you have you 358% CHD. that lack of CHD is killing you. Shenlong is a generator build hence why it needs area dmg U6 doesnt need it as much.
Next, if you dont have near 100% up time of SSS youll also be stuck where you are.
There is a reason why Quin69 is able to hit 70+ with this build and you are not.
You are missing too many specs to even be thinking about breaching 52.
I usually open the inventory and track the buff status by looking at the DPS before using SSS. (is there a better way to keep track of the buff?
Today I was just angry cause there isn't any icon indication of the BP buff, so the solution I found for not needing to open your inventory is to just disable the normal damage numbers display and let it only show the crits (I don't know the correct name of the option in english, as I'm playing in portuguese), so it's easly noticeable when your WotHF starts painting you screen yellow. This might help people like us that have a low CDR to get more value out of BP.
You have to sacrifice really strong stats if you don't run BP, both rings/necks are the main concern, much rather run BP and have CDR/CHD/ELE on neck than to replace one of those with CHC.
Also, pushing 61-62 with BP and I still need a better fist, 2.1k with 80% palm.
I dont have any problems with using it at all, just punch three times and do SSS. It will proc during most of the SSS, if not I have enough CDR that its up within 2 sec again. So dont bother waiting for a proc before you use SSS, just get CDR on every piece you can, except neck, and go ham.
BP is definitely worth using, but you really need proper stats to begin with. I've got ~520% CHD and something like 61% CDR, at which point you just spam SSS on cooldown without bothering with monitoring the proc. Sometimes everything lines up and you deal like 20bn+ with one SSS, other times that's not the case. That's why you need CDR, to even out the spikes over time.
200% damage 25% of the time = 50% damage in groups
That's 20% of the time, actually. CoE has to go through 5 elements on a monk. I think they should change it to four like every other class, personally.
3 thing. you have zero CHD, no CDR. and no ancient weaps. This is why you are stuck at your wall. Area damage is only stronger when you hit at least 10 mobs. CHD has the sustain of the dps. what the heck is the point in having 100% CHC when you proc BP and you have you 358% CHD. that lack of CHD is killing you. Shenlong is a generator build hence why it needs area dmg U6 doesnt need it as much.
Next, if you dont have near 100% up time of SSS youll also be stuck where you are.
There is a reason why Quin69 is able to hit 70+ with this build and you are not.
You are missing too many specs to even be thinking about breaching 52.
Area damage is one of the strongest secondary stats at 6 mobs, not 10. It beats out almost everything except CHC/CHD at 4. Funny that you mentioned Quin69 because he did a video explaining exactly this.
However, the bug with EP makes it effectively worthless considering a large majority of your damage comes from SSS's interaction with EP.
Just dont use Broken Promises. From a hardcore perspective I cant fathom why anyone would use this ring. You drop a lot of CHC on your gear to gain a bunch of mostly pretty useless stats. Lets see:
You lose VITA from head (impact low); LOH on wrists, LOH on bracers; either Dex/CHD/Ele on amulett and Dex/CHD on your rings.
First 3 points are worthless, you dont really notice the Vita; LOH is pretty worthless on the Uliana Build anyways; you can have like 2k Dex / equivalent of CHD/Elemental Dmg more if you use Broken Promises.
Ok fair point. But lets see what you can use for the Broken Promises:
In Group: Convention of Elements: straight forward 200% dmg buff every couple of secs
In Solo: another 50% dmg reduction by Unity
Im Running the spec without broken Promises atm, using unity. I have very crappy gear (non ancient weapons, therefore non ramaladni; etc) and i am pretty much invincible on GR50 and clear this pretty easily. Once ive levelled my gems and got the one or other ancient gear + more Paragons (currently 300) this easily goes to 53-55 and with ancient weapons probably Gr 60
The stats you've mentioned don't make sense?
With BP, you get another 8% CDR on at least 4 slots without sacrificing Vita on your gloves. Your bracers should roll with Ele dmg, dex, vit and regen. LoH scales terribly with U6, because SSS is only considered as 1 'hit'. Regen is also super highlighted until they nerf the healing support monk, which focuses on boosting your LPS to god areas. You can grab area dmg, %life, resist all, region, whatever you want to make up for what your build lacks. Removing CHC from you gear gives you MORE options to deal more damage and survive. SSS means you're invulnerable, so the more often you can do it, the more often you're outweighing Unity.
By maintaining BP at a 50%~ crit chance, without putting CHC on your gear, you can get up to 68.24% CDR. That is an SSS every 2-4 secs... and 560% CHD, Obviously these are perfect rolls, but those 2 stats combined are more valuable than 50% dmg reduction and an actual 50% crit chance.
To explain a little further;
With BP: 5% CHC, 560% CHD, 68.24% CDR, 40% Cold dmg. Effective DPS: 10,836,420/DMG Reduction: 49%.
W/O BP; 43% CHC, 560% CHD, 55.66% CDR, 40% Cold dmg. Effective DPS: 5,595,533/DMG Reduction: 75%.
So, 13% CDR loss, and half the Effective DPS, for 43% CHC, and 26%~ damage reduction?
The point really is: Don't try and time your process, grab up all the CDR you can and SSS on cooldown, then it won't matter what you're pushing, because you're immune to damage, and critting all the time.
This has all been Monk specific, but it applies to other classes as well. Even so, getting 68.24% CDR negates the need to get the IK's 4 set, which could be important to some Barb builds? Archon Wizard could become absolutely out of control with this setup, though BP is only 3 secs, and the pulse from Chantodo's is 1/sec. So maybe not useful there, maybe it will be... the point is, this ring is literally a 50% CHC w/o crit on your gear. Much similarly to the CoE which is 50% ele dmg increase, however, being able to use different pieces to make better builds via an obscene amount of CDR available, and not worry about CHC, makes BP more attractive.
Sorry for the late response on this - was out of town at Dragon Con over the holiday weekend.
Thank you all for the advice on improvements to gear! As I continue to look for those elusive ancient weapons, I will also start to focus on finding gear with more CDR and CHD, as the Area Damage issue seems to still be around.
I agree about broken promises. It procs to little on big packs (more targets = less chance of all of them being non-crits).
I swapped over to COE about a week ago for this very reason. Been able to clear 62 sofar and will probboly be able to clear 63 without much issue once i stop noobing myself and die to many times.
(more targets = less chance of all of them being non-crits).
This is most likely not correct. The number of targets is irrelevant, the chance of not critting 5 times in a row should stay the same. The only thing that could mess this up would be, if you are hitting more than 5 targets with the same attack AND the game treats all those hits as causing damage simultaneously and causes any crit in those simultaneous hits to break the chain. However, for most games, there is no such thing as multiple things happening simultaneously, everything is calculated in sequence. So even if you hit 20 enemies at once, the game would still calculate 20 seperate hits with 20 seperate chances to crit, and if the first 5 of these (or any 5 consecutive ones out of the 20) are non-crits, the buff would activate.
Now, I could be wrong about this, I don't have actual proof besides my experience modding other (Blizzard) games. Diablo, or the implementation of Broken Promises could be specifically set up in a way, that would make your statement be accurate. However, I would consider this unlikely.
If this was the case the broken promises whould proc consistently. Its doesnt, not even close. on RG you have near 100% crit on your SSS. On big trashpacks your happy if it procs at all and you often go throu entire casts without it proccing (14SSShits and 14EP).
Also if yours was the case then way of the hundred fist whould proc broken promises instantly on a pack of say 5mobs. it doesnt.
The most likely mechanic given my observatiosn playing the spec is that the entire attack must be noncrit for it to count as 1 hit out of the 5 in a row you need. Its the only reasonable mechanic i can come up with to match experiences.
(more targets = less chance of all of them being non-crits).
The only thing that could mess this up would be, if you are hitting more than 5 targets with the same attack AND the game treats all those hits as causing damage simultaneously and causes any crit in those simultaneous hits to break the chain.
That's exactly how broken promises works. If you are using an AoE attack (Way of the Hundred Fists) and there are crits in that AoE attack, you won't get a proc. In addition, AoE non-crits (the kind from WotHFs 3rd attack) will not count towards your 5 non-crit total to get a BP proc. Only non-crits from the target you clicked on will count. Non-crit SSS will proc BP, but it attacks so fast that the animation will usually finish before you get the damage bonus.
I agree about broken promises. It procs to little on big packs (more targets = less chance of all of them being non-crits).
OK, this is driving me NUTS. i spent a week gearing for a Broken promises build, now i have to regear again for cc convention of element.
so someone please EXPLAIN this to me like im a two years old, why now all the top leaderboard monk are switching to convention of element?
"After 5 consecutive non-critical hits, your chance to critically hit is increased to 100% for 3 seconds"
IN MY MIND, this is how it works:
SSS hit a total of 14 times, if the first 5 hits does not proc crit, then the rest 9 hit are all crit hit??? seem like a good idea since i only have 5%cc. but clearly i misunderstood something here right? and whats all this have to do with more targets = less chance???
please help, thanks in advance
IN MY MIND, this is how it works:
SSS hit a total of 14 times, if the first 5 hits does not proc crit, then the rest 9 hit are all crit hit??? seem like a good idea since i only have 5%cc. but clearly i misunderstood something here right? and whats all this have to do with more targets = less chance???
please help, thanks in advance
Your average proc scenario whould be SSS->EP(x10)->SSS->EP(x10)->SSS all hits. 23 attacks.
with 10target aoe the EP will hit 10 targets. meaning you actually need 23 hits in a row.
with a 5% CC chance this give about 30% chance of procing broken promises for this interval(70% chance to fail).
During a total SSS cast you do 14 hits and 140 EP hits. And this is where my mind fails me, im pretty sure i learned how to calculate the probability of this in school but cant remember how.. We have an event of 28 attacks. and we already established the chance of the proc happening (0.95^23=0.307) We know it can proc during 24 diffrent stages of the SSS. Either during attack 1-5 or 2-6 or .........24-28. and now i have no idea what to do with this math problem^^
Also to add to this mess is the fact that a proc could be EP(x10)->SSS->EP(x10)->SSS->EP(x10) wich is 32 attacks...
And lastly. For Broken promises spec to be worth it it whould need to proc be4 halfway throu (or at least on average proc halfway throu). else we whould be getting more crits from the COE spec (Hmm this doesnt count the 20% uptime of a 200% added elemental bonus dmg from COE, might need to on average proc even earlier to make up for that).
Well shit, we need a mathwizard here!
Anyhow, my opinion of the broken primises build is that its better on 1 and mby a few targets but worse on bigger packs.
I'm seeing folks (Monks specifically) high on the leader boards using the standard Uliana's six piece SSS build - which includes Broken Promises in the Cube.
I'm doing the same and thus far can't seem to get the DPS to get past GR52. Now I don't have an ancient Fist or Lions, so that's a big part of it. but I feel the other half of the issue is the lack of Crit and the lack of proc on Broken Promises.
For giggles, I did a T10 rift with the character screen open and sat in a group of mobs, just using WothF generator attack. I waited to see the sheet dps jump from 300k to 1.5M. I punched and punched and punched and no jump really in dps. I then hit SSS and immediately the DPS jumped, at the end of the SSS attack and by the time SSS was off of cooldown, the sheet dps was back to around 300K.
I know the ring procs at different times during fights, but it seems so spotty at best that you can't really time your SSS attacks around it. And I feel that has to be an integral part of being able to progress. I have no crit anywhere else and it appears that you start with a base of 5%.
So there was a monk, rank 2 for the monk solo leader boards and they didn't use Broken Promises, but Covention of Elements in its place and they had crit in all the usual places.
So any suggestions on how to play around the proc, to time it, expect it, etc? Anyone else having trouble with this?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Polrayne-1173/hero/22253075
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I've cleared a 53 within a decent amount of time. But that was before I even had broken promise. Like the guy above me said you need CDR everywhere. Im on my phone so I can't link my monks profile but you can look up my btag Grindnloot#1410. I haven't been pushing anymore just yet because I've been lvling gems. But I know I can easily push past my 53. I will say playing with the broken promise is annoying trying to hit at the proc. but from what I see you just spam SSS on cd anyways.
The lack of the two fist weapons means you are missing half the damage of SSS and half the damage of the exploding palms. The biggest hit is not having the lions claw how ever, getting these I would image jump you up in rifts alone.
When it comes to the ring, I am on the fence about it like most, but I have seen both arguments and you can do it with or without the broken promises. I just changed the gem in my helm to a diamond and use that. It might slow you down some but eventually you will find a balance. Your biggest thing is the fist weapons. You are missing so much of your damage by not having those. At the least half.
Also do you have the Diabo that reduces the cool down of SSS by 40-60%? It also makes a huge difference. I remember getting that and jumping up almost 5 Greater Rifts. That was lower rifts but still shows that it makes a difference.
3 thing. you have zero CHD, no CDR. and no ancient weaps. This is why you are stuck at your wall. Area damage is only stronger when you hit at least 10 mobs. CHD has the sustain of the dps. what the heck is the point in having 100% CHC when you proc BP and you have you 358% CHD. that lack of CHD is killing you. Shenlong is a generator build hence why it needs area dmg U6 doesnt need it as much.
Next, if you dont have near 100% up time of SSS youll also be stuck where you are.
There is a reason why Quin69 is able to hit 70+ with this build and you are not.
You are missing too many specs to even be thinking about breaching 52.
THEY HATE US, CUZ THEY AIN'T US
Today I was just angry cause there isn't any icon indication of the BP buff, so the solution I found for not needing to open your inventory is to just disable the normal damage numbers display and let it only show the crits (I don't know the correct name of the option in english, as I'm playing in portuguese), so it's easly noticeable when your WotHF starts painting you screen yellow. This might help people like us that have a low CDR to get more value out of BP.
You have to sacrifice really strong stats if you don't run BP, both rings/necks are the main concern, much rather run BP and have CDR/CHD/ELE on neck than to replace one of those with CHC.
Also, pushing 61-62 with BP and I still need a better fist, 2.1k with 80% palm.
I dont have any problems with using it at all, just punch three times and do SSS. It will proc during most of the SSS, if not I have enough CDR that its up within 2 sec again. So dont bother waiting for a proc before you use SSS, just get CDR on every piece you can, except neck, and go ham.
I cleared 56 or 57 before I got my ancient Lions, so you should be able to aswell. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Naim-2185/hero/64673700
BP is definitely worth using, but you really need proper stats to begin with. I've got ~520% CHD and something like 61% CDR, at which point you just spam SSS on cooldown without bothering with monitoring the proc. Sometimes everything lines up and you deal like 20bn+ with one SSS, other times that's not the case. That's why you need CDR, to even out the spikes over time.
However, the bug with EP makes it effectively worthless considering a large majority of your damage comes from SSS's interaction with EP.
The stats you've mentioned don't make sense?
With BP, you get another 8% CDR on at least 4 slots without sacrificing Vita on your gloves. Your bracers should roll with Ele dmg, dex, vit and regen. LoH scales terribly with U6, because SSS is only considered as 1 'hit'. Regen is also super highlighted until they nerf the healing support monk, which focuses on boosting your LPS to god areas. You can grab area dmg, %life, resist all, region, whatever you want to make up for what your build lacks. Removing CHC from you gear gives you MORE options to deal more damage and survive. SSS means you're invulnerable, so the more often you can do it, the more often you're outweighing Unity.
By maintaining BP at a 50%~ crit chance, without putting CHC on your gear, you can get up to 68.24% CDR. That is an SSS every 2-4 secs... and 560% CHD, Obviously these are perfect rolls, but those 2 stats combined are more valuable than 50% dmg reduction and an actual 50% crit chance.
To explain a little further;
With BP: 5% CHC, 560% CHD, 68.24% CDR, 40% Cold dmg. Effective DPS: 10,836,420/DMG Reduction: 49%.
W/O BP; 43% CHC, 560% CHD, 55.66% CDR, 40% Cold dmg. Effective DPS: 5,595,533/DMG Reduction: 75%.
So, 13% CDR loss, and half the Effective DPS, for 43% CHC, and 26%~ damage reduction?
The point really is: Don't try and time your process, grab up all the CDR you can and SSS on cooldown, then it won't matter what you're pushing, because you're immune to damage, and critting all the time.
This has all been Monk specific, but it applies to other classes as well. Even so, getting 68.24% CDR negates the need to get the IK's 4 set, which could be important to some Barb builds? Archon Wizard could become absolutely out of control with this setup, though BP is only 3 secs, and the pulse from Chantodo's is 1/sec. So maybe not useful there, maybe it will be... the point is, this ring is literally a 50% CHC w/o crit on your gear. Much similarly to the CoE which is 50% ele dmg increase, however, being able to use different pieces to make better builds via an obscene amount of CDR available, and not worry about CHC, makes BP more attractive.
Sorry for the late response on this - was out of town at Dragon Con over the holiday weekend.
Thank you all for the advice on improvements to gear! As I continue to look for those elusive ancient weapons, I will also start to focus on finding gear with more CDR and CHD, as the Area Damage issue seems to still be around.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I agree about broken promises. It procs to little on big packs (more targets = less chance of all of them being non-crits).
I swapped over to COE about a week ago for this very reason. Been able to clear 62 sofar and will probboly be able to clear 63 without much issue once i stop noobing myself and die to many times.
Also if yours was the case then way of the hundred fist whould proc broken promises instantly on a pack of say 5mobs. it doesnt.
The most likely mechanic given my observatiosn playing the spec is that the entire attack must be noncrit for it to count as 1 hit out of the 5 in a row you need. Its the only reasonable mechanic i can come up with to match experiences.
so someone please EXPLAIN this to me like im a two years old, why now all the top leaderboard monk are switching to convention of element?
"After 5 consecutive non-critical hits, your chance to critically hit is increased to 100% for 3 seconds"
IN MY MIND, this is how it works:
SSS hit a total of 14 times, if the first 5 hits does not proc crit, then the rest 9 hit are all crit hit??? seem like a good idea since i only have 5%cc. but clearly i misunderstood something here right? and whats all this have to do with more targets = less chance???
please help, thanks in advance
Your average proc scenario whould be SSS->EP(x10)->SSS->EP(x10)->SSS all hits. 23 attacks.
with 10target aoe the EP will hit 10 targets. meaning you actually need 23 hits in a row.
with a 5% CC chance this give about 30% chance of procing broken promises for this interval(70% chance to fail).
During a total SSS cast you do 14 hits and 140 EP hits. And this is where my mind fails me, im pretty sure i learned how to calculate the probability of this in school but cant remember how.. We have an event of 28 attacks. and we already established the chance of the proc happening (0.95^23=0.307) We know it can proc during 24 diffrent stages of the SSS. Either during attack 1-5 or 2-6 or .........24-28. and now i have no idea what to do with this math problem^^
Also to add to this mess is the fact that a proc could be EP(x10)->SSS->EP(x10)->SSS->EP(x10) wich is 32 attacks...
And lastly. For Broken promises spec to be worth it it whould need to proc be4 halfway throu (or at least on average proc halfway throu). else we whould be getting more crits from the COE spec (Hmm this doesnt count the 20% uptime of a 200% added elemental bonus dmg from COE, might need to on average proc even earlier to make up for that).
Well shit, we need a mathwizard here!
Anyhow, my opinion of the broken primises build is that its better on 1 and mby a few targets but worse on bigger packs.