Not from what I'm reading on other forums , sounds like they are in a worse position now than what they were with the new PTR changes . That balance you were talking about , well , I will say this :
they said they would never change the Marauder set , just bring other sets on par with them , also that they never want anyone to feel weaker after a patch .
Guess we will see , but my money is on them being weaker .
They went against everything they said and originally on the PTR DH's were stronger than ever , next PTR update , a little weaker , next update a little weaker . These small changes over time are going to make them weaker than the original set . But doing so at a small increment over time it lulls people into a false sense of security .
Guys you need to understand that what they said about "us never feel weaker" is for live servers
It is normal for tweaks to happen in PTR, that is why it is a PTR. On live, we will be a little bit stronger but you need to forget about lightning DH because they used immortality, I compare my self to without perma smoke screen builds and I am doing better atm they I can do on live
Let's see. Conduit Pylons can't be used to instantly kill the Rift Guardian anymore. Nightstalker has been redesigned, so no immortality anymore. A ladder reset two days ago, lots of mechanical changes, and only a few hundred people testing (versus thousands of players on live). Yet, DHs are back at the #1 spot on PTR and clearing GR49 - just two levels shy of their performance on live. It might look like a nerf, but in the end they're still the #1 class in terms of damage in groups as well as solo, and we don't even know what the final build will look like. It took weeks until the lightning build was found on live, and on PTR the DH was ~5 levels lower than on live, just because there's only a limited number of people testing.
Overall, what Blizzard said is completely true - it's not a nerf, but a change in game mechanics, and it makes the DH gameplay feel much more active and engaging. This is especially true for anyone who's playing below GR40, but even for the high-end DHs on top of the ladder.
My favorite quote from Reddit: "Cool. After this bug fix, they'll go back to being massively overpowered, instead of comically overpowered :-)" - not sure if I agree with the "massively", time will tell; they're definitely still a bit overpowered (still no other DPS class in groups), but probably not "massively OP" and definitely not "comically OP" as on PTR for the past few weeks.
It might be more active and engaging, but it feels like a damn chore when you have to spend forever between attacking and trying to stay alive on levels where there was no problem before.
You describe the melee style well, there. Sorry if I don't sound sympathetic.
till, you gotta keep in mind that people on the top of the PTR leaderboard are probably well-geared when it comes to ancient items by now. So it's two levels less with the help of ancient items.
I agree that on the first PTR build, they went way overboard with damage. But comparing current PTR to live, it just feels bad. The damage feels roughly the same (though it's hard to tell exactly, considering the changes to monster hp), provided you can use spenders indefinitely, which isn't always possible. On top of that, the necessity to stand still while attacking hurts a lot, even with the buff to vitality.
It is a change of mechanics, but right now it's also a nerf. It might be more active and engaging, but it feels like a damn chore when you have to spend forever between attacking and trying to stay alive on levels where there was no problem before. And yeah, it's PTR and everything is subject to change, but the devs haven't corrected it yet, so why would I say nothing about it? If no one says anything, why would they change it any further? I know it's going to far to say that they rely on feedback for everything, but it's better to be on the safe side.
That's certainly one way to look at.
The thing that seems to get left out here is that part of that "trying to stay alive on levels where there was no problem before" is tied into the change to NightStalker and Smoke Screen, since that was where the real survivability came from. If that stuff hadn't been changed, this wouldn't be an issue with the new M6 bonuses, since you'd want to shoot to get discipline back and you'd be able to stand relatively still because SS.
The other factor is the conduit change, which also makes a straight comparison of the newest PTR M6 to the live version difficult. If you just look at GR tier's completed between newest PTR and live, you're missing the other changes that contribute to the difference, one of which affects all classes (conduit).
The other thing is that... most other builds require a balance between doing damage and trying to avoid taking damage. The fact that the DH (on live) can basically negate that because it's damage is mostly passive (sentries fire spenders by themselves) and they can focus on trying to keep SS either 100% up, or dodging attacks in the small time it isn't, was an outlier that needed to be fixed. If they just made every class be able to do passive damage and be nearly invulnerable, they may as well remove elite affixes from the game.
I haven't had a ton of time to test the newest changes myself, but I did take a look at the PTR leaderboards, and saw bit of a stream with someone playing it while I was working, and it looks like the DH is still pretty competitive as far as both solo and group GR. That to me, makes the changes seem legit.
Now I just hope they can work to make a solo and group viable build available for every class, and then work to make more than 1 for each class. That'd be the dream.
Now everything has come down to obtain an ancient boomstick and how many cluster arrows you can fire one after another.
GR levels above 35+ require excessive usage of cluster arrow.
Bombardier's Rucksack is too OP against remaining quivers due to changes in sentry mechanics and also indispensible.
All the versatile potential builds at start are a myth now.
It is all about what you can stick near CA. Even so called new Kridershit buld(s) is infact merely another CA setup.
I agree that the change in marauder set mechanics is for good, but playstyle is a different subject than the potential damage output.
Now everything has come down to obtain an ancient boomstick and how many cluster arrows you can fire one after another.
GR levels above 35+ require excessive usage of cluster arrow.
Bombardier's Rucksack is too OP against remaining quivers due to changes in sentry mechanics and also indispensible.
All the versatile potential builds at start are a myth now.
It is all about what you can stick near CA. Even so called new Kridershit buld(s) is infact merely another CA setup.
I agree that the change in marauder set mechanics is for good, but playstyle is a different subject than the potential damage output.
The point is the synergy provided by said items. Until we don't get new sets (like the primaries one), you won't see many builds around because there are no items supporting determinate abilities.
The strenght of Mara6 is multiplying the damage of a single spender by 3 (or 5 with the quiver); it is obvious that the most dmagening one will benefit from it more than other spenders, hence CA all the way.
We don't need buff to other skills; we need new items (like any other class tbh) that will make viable different builds.
Not from what I'm reading on other forums , sounds like they are in a worse position now than what they were with the new PTR changes . That balance you were talking about , well , I will say this :
they said they would never change the Marauder set , just bring other sets on par with them , also that they never want anyone to feel weaker after a patch .
Guess we will see , but my money is on them being weaker .
They went against everything they said and originally on the PTR DH's were stronger than ever , next PTR update , a little weaker , next update a little weaker . These small changes over time are going to make them weaker than the original set . But doing so at a small increment over time it lulls people into a false sense of security .
Edited : forgot to add "Kid"
Agreed they're doing the same with the Barb set. Honestly it may be time to call it quits. I am sick and tired of puting so much damn time into a char only to see it nerfed.
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they said they would never change the Marauder set , just bring other sets on par with them , also that they never want anyone to feel weaker after a patch .
Guess we will see , but my money is on them being weaker .
They went against everything they said and originally on the PTR DH's were stronger than ever , next PTR update , a little weaker , next update a little weaker . These small changes over time are going to make them weaker than the original set . But doing so at a small increment over time it lulls people into a false sense of security .
Edited : forgot to add "Kid"
It is normal for tweaks to happen in PTR, that is why it is a PTR. On live, we will be a little bit stronger but you need to forget about lightning DH because they used immortality, I compare my self to without perma smoke screen builds and I am doing better atm they I can do on live
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/iGGi-2191/hero/87768679
Overall, what Blizzard said is completely true - it's not a nerf, but a change in game mechanics, and it makes the DH gameplay feel much more active and engaging. This is especially true for anyone who's playing below GR40, but even for the high-end DHs on top of the ladder.
My favorite quote from Reddit: "Cool. After this bug fix, they'll go back to being massively overpowered, instead of comically overpowered :-)" - not sure if I agree with the "massively", time will tell; they're definitely still a bit overpowered (still no other DPS class in groups), but probably not "massively OP" and definitely not "comically OP" as on PTR for the past few weeks.
The thing that seems to get left out here is that part of that "trying to stay alive on levels where there was no problem before" is tied into the change to NightStalker and Smoke Screen, since that was where the real survivability came from. If that stuff hadn't been changed, this wouldn't be an issue with the new M6 bonuses, since you'd want to shoot to get discipline back and you'd be able to stand relatively still because SS.
The other factor is the conduit change, which also makes a straight comparison of the newest PTR M6 to the live version difficult. If you just look at GR tier's completed between newest PTR and live, you're missing the other changes that contribute to the difference, one of which affects all classes (conduit).
The other thing is that... most other builds require a balance between doing damage and trying to avoid taking damage. The fact that the DH (on live) can basically negate that because it's damage is mostly passive (sentries fire spenders by themselves) and they can focus on trying to keep SS either 100% up, or dodging attacks in the small time it isn't, was an outlier that needed to be fixed. If they just made every class be able to do passive damage and be nearly invulnerable, they may as well remove elite affixes from the game.
I haven't had a ton of time to test the newest changes myself, but I did take a look at the PTR leaderboards, and saw bit of a stream with someone playing it while I was working, and it looks like the DH is still pretty competitive as far as both solo and group GR. That to me, makes the changes seem legit.
Now I just hope they can work to make a solo and group viable build available for every class, and then work to make more than 1 for each class. That'd be the dream.
GR levels above 35+ require excessive usage of cluster arrow.
Bombardier's Rucksack is too OP against remaining quivers due to changes in sentry mechanics and also indispensible.
All the versatile potential builds at start are a myth now.
It is all about what you can stick near CA. Even so called new Kridershit buld(s) is infact merely another CA setup.
I agree that the change in marauder set mechanics is for good, but playstyle is a different subject than the potential damage output.
The strenght of Mara6 is multiplying the damage of a single spender by 3 (or 5 with the quiver); it is obvious that the most dmagening one will benefit from it more than other spenders, hence CA all the way.
We don't need buff to other skills; we need new items (like any other class tbh) that will make viable different builds.