Patch 2.1 Demon Hunter Discussion

  • #102
    Quote from zabtak
    I did short test - 2 T6 rifts - M6 cold bulid and it's pretty much crap - lacks a lot of damage compared with physical / fire bulids.

    did you have proper gear/build? not easy to swap form a build to another with the wrong gear and have similar perfomance :D
  • #103
    Yep, since i'm playing with Unity (solo player) i'm only swaping bracers and neck - crafted new bracers and swaped element on neck to 20% cold - thats all.

    Tested with T&T and Frostburn - 3 spenders: CA / MS / Impale - 2h X-bow

    It's nowhere near - dps wise - to fire or physical.
  • #104
    Yep that's my impression as well.

    Cold sentry might be worth taking though for any physical/fire build as an alternative to spitfire if you combine it with cotw (maybe) but didn't have time to test since i got annoyed at all the crashing and having to restart my GR's.

    So hopefully tomorrow they'll fix their stuff and also enable leg gems.
  • #105
    I'm thinking a cold/rocket strafe build with the shadows set bonus could provide insane mitigation and CC for higher Grift group play. Add in rain of vengeance and Vengeance with cold runes and you could have some insane AoE on top of that. If only shuriken cloud was a cold rune you could get 100% uptime on strafe while maintaining elemental skill synergy. 4 spenders plus companion and shadow power, craziness!
  • #106
    Here's the build I was thinking of.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#eiTSOl!hecS!cYYccc

    Both Vengeance FTS and RoV FS should proc strongarm bracers and Cull the weak for a good damage buff on top of +%elemental. Use a Windforce to keep strafe costs down, or dual 1hand Xbows for faster hatred regen (though with 5 stat quivers you could get per 2 hatred regen per sec), and the knock back would proc Strongarm too (not sure if they'd knock out of shuriken range though).

    Anyways, obviously needs some testing but I'm excited!
  • #107
    We can't expect Cold builds to output more than Fire builds because of the control you gain for it, the same applies to Lightning. Blizzard stated a long time ago, Fire will always do more damage because there is no control, however they never intended it to be the only element to be used.

    As a Hardcore player, Cold M6 is definitely looking good. And now there's a quiver that makes Chakram's generate rather than take, its getting interesting. :)
  • #108
    Quote from Natalya85
    Yep that's my impression as well.

    Cold sentry might be worth taking though for any physical/fire build as an alternative to spitfire if you combine it with cotw (maybe) but didn't have time to test since i got annoyed at all the crashing and having to restart my GR's.

    So hopefully tomorrow they'll fix their stuff and also enable leg gems.

    Had the same idea and exactly same issue... got pissed off after crash at lvl 31 and then at 17... Waste of time untill they gonna fix it :/
  • #109
    So Krider with chakram offhand equals two spender/generators? Guess you can only shoot one at a time, but CA would rock all day as third spender. Go cold elemental and cold sentrys with cotw, chakrams CA cold (there is one right?).So great slows, increased slow damage, chakrams cutting through the slowed, and all the hatred you could ever want?
  • #110
    Quote from BrowntownTown

    Here's the build I was thinking of.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#eiTSOl!hecS!cYYccc

    Both Vengeance FTS and RoV FS should proc strongarm bracers and Cull the weak for a good damage buff on top of +%elemental. Use a Windforce to keep strafe costs down, or dual 1hand Xbows for faster hatred regen (though with 5 stat quivers you could get per 2 hatred regen per sec), and the knock back would proc Strongarm too (not sure if they'd knock out of shuriken range though).

    Anyways, obviously needs some testing but I'm excited!

    I tried a similar build (cold/strafe) last night with the shadow set and ran into some issues with it. One of the big problems with the shadow set is it is only 4 pieces and they are some of the most valuable slots blocking you out of other important gear needed for strafe to really shine. Even with RoRG you can only get one back, and you really need at least 2 of these slots for a good strafe build.
    Gloves - Blocks out Magefist, Frostburn
    Chest - Blocks out Cindercoat
    Pants - Block out Hexing Pants
    Boots - Blocks out Ice Climbers

    Perm Shadow power is nice, especially for strafe. But it does not break CC like smoke screen. CC , especially Jailer, KILLS strafe. And having smoke screen and Shadow power at the same time ties up too many skill slots.

    Ice climbers would fix this but then you are blocked out of Hexing Pant or Cindercoat. After the preperation nerf you really really need one of these two to even have a chance on keeping a good uptime on strafe. I had hexing pants last night +RecCostRed on 3 other gear peices and paragon and i still needed prep-punish and bat to keep strafe up. But this was with 2x 1-handers so I could use K'Mar, so maybe X-bow + quiver would help.

    I really wish they would add a fifth item to the shadow set (helm, shoulder, belt, bracer?) to open up some more options gear wise, kind of like natalya set having 4 set bouns but 5 item choices.

    Question: to someone whom has a Calamity... Does the Marked for Death use whatever rune you have selected?
    Seems like Marked for Death, Mortal Enemy would help alot with hatred regen if calamity was regularly casting it on mobs for you as you were strafing through them.
    Last edited by Bernie_666: 7/10/2014 2:37:34 PM
  • #111
    @Bernie_666

    i hear what you're saying but let's try to hash this out before writing it off completely. First let's remember that these changes aren't final so a lot of what I'm going to say is speculation at this point but I think it's fair to consider them as options.

    Ok #1 magefist/cindercoat/frostburn. For a cold/strafe build these aren't entirely necessary. Magefist and cindercoat are fire based after all, and the +%cold damage on frostburn should be able to roll on most (many?) quivers in the new PTR build. Loosing the %chance to freeze is big though.

    IceClimbers I can see as being very useful but I don't think necessary. From a gameplay perspective jailer is the only affix that automatically locks you down. All others can be avoided with good maneuvering. So yes they'd make gameplay much easier but aren't a huge loss w/o them. Plus if you can play smart with popping Vengeance you should be able to unlock yourself at least some of the time.

    As for prep/punish with the new 5 affix quivers including hatred regen should be a no brainer in a build like this. So that's 2 per sec right there (20%). With Hexing pants you reduce cost by another 25%. RCR on shoulders is another 8%. On rings (optional) that's another 14%. So that's 47% RCR with gear. Add in paragon (not sure what the max is) and I think your coming pretty darn close to net zero hatred per second, which would be an awesome goal but is by no means 100% necessary (not strafing between packs should get you right back to full pretty soon).

    If you can get the chakram generator quiver that will make things super easy. Just pop on shuriken cloud and go to town (assuming it would generate on hit? Has anyone tested that?).

    So let's not say it isn't viable just yet. Plus I think it could pair with Nats set pretty well so you could spam RoV on top of all your spinning.
  • #112
    Quote from zabtak

    Yep, since i'm playing with Unity (solo player) i'm only swaping bracers and neck - crafted new bracers and swaped element on neck to 20% cold - thats all.

    Tested with T&T and Frostburn - 3 spenders: CA / MS / Impale - 2h X-bow

    It's nowhere near - dps wise - to fire or physical.

    That's actually sad to hear. I can understand being a little behind, but it needs to be viable. Well, my fire build/gear is going to be straight buffed, so we will have a good option to run smoothly.

    As per the Cold crowd control - yes we manage to slow mobs, that's it. If the damage is like 30% less it's way too much of a tradeoff an no one will end playing that.

    @Bernie: yes that was my idea, stack decent RCR to make strafe nearly free. Anywyay, it all depends on what we can/cannot pass over on current items.
    Last edited by TrueColdkil: 7/10/2014 3:16:46 PM
  • #113
    @Browntown

    I wasn't saying its not do-able. Sorry if that came off that way. I'm just thinking Shadow Set is not the ticket. Im thinking the 4pc marauder set would actually help you out more.

    This is what i'm think would be cool to try, but i'm missing some pieces to try it myself:
    Helm, Body Armor, Shoulders - Marauder 4pc bonus (Hatred regen, 10% movespd, 20% resists,etc)
    Gloves - Frostburn (for damage and freeze)
    Pants - Hexing (for damage and RCR)
    Boots - Ice Climber (for CC immunity)
    Rings - RoRG and Cold SOJ
    Weapon/Offhand - High dmg 2H X-bow + Cold/Hatred Quiver OR Calamity + Kmar
    Ammy - Cold trifecta (maybe new hellfire)
    Bracer - Cold Repear Wrap
    Belt - Sash of Knives (for FoK boost plus this has RCR)

    Skills:
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#eifSOj!hecf!cYZcca
    If you go with calamity/kmar switch out MfD rune to Mortal Enemy
  • #114
    Quote from zabtak
    Yep, since i'm playing with Unity (solo player) i'm only swaping bracers and neck - crafted new bracers and swaped element on neck to 20% cold - thats all.

    Tested with T&T and Frostburn - 3 spenders: CA / MS / Impale - 2h X-bow

    It's nowhere near - dps wise - to fire or physical.

    Don't use Impale. Use EA. I'm up to floor 30, working on pushing it higher with a cold build just fine and my gear is far from optimal. (I am running a Krider, though.) If I had a Unity set I'm pretty sure I could go higher as well, as I'm having survivability issues, not damage issues. Granted #1 on the leaderboards is Tier 37 currently, 2, 3, and 4 are 36/35. Everyone else is at 34 and lower, so I think getting to 30 in just a few attempts is still fairly "viable" especially considering BiS gear like some of the leaderboard players run.

    Keep in mind it's also very random with the nature of the rifts, especially with low samples from each player early on. I got boned in a few rifts where I'd have a long straight line without many packs, or mobs in general, etc. As people play more on the PTR we'll get a better understanding of where builds sit and whatnot.
  • #115
    Quote from Socio
    Quote from zabtak

    Yep, since i'm playing with Unity (solo player) i'm only swaping bracers and neck - crafted new bracers and swaped element on neck to 20% cold - thats all.

    Tested with T&T and Frostburn - 3 spenders: CA / MS / Impale - 2h X-bow

    It's nowhere near - dps wise - to fire or physical.

    Don't use Impale. Use EA. I'm up to floor 30, working on pushing it higher with a cold build just fine and my gear is far from optimal. (I am running a Krider, though.) If I had a Unity set I'm pretty sure I could go higher as well, as I'm having survivability issues, not damage issues. Granted #1 on the leaderboards is Tier 37 currently, 2, 3, and 4 are 36/35. Everyone else is at 34 and lower, so I think getting to 30 in just a few attempts is still fairly "viable" especially considering BiS gear like some of the leaderboard players run.

    Keep in mind it's also very random with the nature of the rifts, especially with low samples from each player early on. I got boned in a few rifts where I'd have a long straight line without many packs, or mobs in general, etc. As people play more on the PTR we'll get a better understanding of where builds sit and whatnot.

    Same experience here. Cluster/Multi/EA with kridershot and frostburns and I'm clearing T6 a good 30% faster with cold then I am with fire on live.

    Yeah everything hits 10-15% less but I get 100% uptime on CtW and Steady from the slow and I can actively attack with EA as a builder and the new cluster for a spender instead of running around and waiting for sentries to kill stuff which more then makes up the difference.

    All that and we get a mediocre heal from cluster and the nice slow/freeze which helps with survivability - my runs are faster and smoother with frost then they are with fire on live.
    Last edited by Suddle: 7/10/2014 4:08:19 PM
  • #116
    Quote from Suddle

    Same experience here. Cluster/Multi/EA with kridershot and frostburns and I'm clearing T6 a good 30% faster with cold then I am with fire on live.

    Yeah everything hits 10-15% less but I get 100% uptime on CtW and Steady from the slow and I can actively attack with EA as a builder and the new cluster for a spender instead of running around and waiting for sentries to kill stuff which more then makes up the difference.

    All that and we get a mediocre heal from cluster and the nice slow/freeze which helps with survivability - my runs are faster and smoother with frost then they are with fire on live.

    Just for the sake of it, a Strafe/CA/EA build with Ballistic? Would that work? Hex pants are good, but a forstburn and enough RCR should do the trick anyway.

    EDIT: also, Buriza+DA+new depth diggers.
    Last edited by TrueColdkil: 7/10/2014 4:23:51 PM
  • #117
    ^Hmm, Buriza+DA+depth+ primary damage gem might be wroth testing out. Could hit really hard.
  • #118
    Quote from Suddle

    Quote from Socio
    Quote from zabtak

    Yep, since i'm playing with Unity (solo player) i'm only swaping bracers and neck - crafted new bracers and swaped element on neck to 20% cold - thats all.

    Tested with T&T and Frostburn - 3 spenders: CA / MS / Impale - 2h X-bow

    It's nowhere near - dps wise - to fire or physical.

    Don't use Impale. Use EA. I'm up to floor 30, working on pushing it higher with a cold build just fine and my gear is far from optimal. (I am running a Krider, though.) If I had a Unity set I'm pretty sure I could go higher as well, as I'm having survivability issues, not damage issues. Granted #1 on the leaderboards is Tier 37 currently, 2, 3, and 4 are 36/35. Everyone else is at 34 and lower, so I think getting to 30 in just a few attempts is still fairly "viable" especially considering BiS gear like some of the leaderboard players run.

    Keep in mind it's also very random with the nature of the rifts, especially with low samples from each player early on. I got boned in a few rifts where I'd have a long straight line without many packs, or mobs in general, etc. As people play more on the PTR we'll get a better understanding of where builds sit and whatnot.

    Same experience here. Cluster/Multi/EA with kridershot and frostburns and I'm clearing T6 a good 30% faster with cold then I am with fire on live.

    Yeah everything hits 10-15% less but I get 100% uptime on CtW and Steady from the slow and I can actively attack with EA as a builder and the new cluster for a spender instead of running around and waiting for sentries to kill stuff which more then makes up the difference.

    All that and we get a mediocre heal from cluster and the nice slow/freeze which helps with survivability - my runs are faster and smoother with frost then they are with fire on live.

    Yup, would love Frostburns but I don't have any currently so running Tasker and Theo instead. Made it to Tier 31 this time, failed to clear in time due to getting Orlash as my RG. :( Did clear 30 though so now I'm at like rank 170 or something on leaderboards currently. I'm okay with this for running an unoptimized Cold build. Going to try a few runs as fire again later and see how that goes without the Kridershot I suppose just to compare.
  • #119
    I've completed 34 lvl today before work (and failed 35 lvl by around 10 sec - only because i lost good 1-1.5 min in damn "maze" like map :/ ) as physical bulid with only 2 spenders (MS / Impale) + MfD and Aid Station sentry. (i guess this score should be somewhere on leaderboards - too lazy to make screenshots :P)

    So the turret itself it's quite usefull. Now i'm switched back to fire - and after work - i'm gonna test full M6 with Unity / SoJ combo + Aid Station - not sure yet about spenders tho (2 or 3, gonna figure it out later).
  • #120
    Just assuming at this point - have tried a little something but my experience can be just anectodal.

    A good Mara6 setup for 2.1 needs 1 low cost spender, so we replace totally the standard bolts. 2/3 spenders build may differ based on gear (as mentioned multiple times, a DA/Buriza/DepthDiggers is surely viable) and preference, but no more std bolts means a huge prefernce for EA/Chakram.

    I don't like builds without generators, though i like the idea of placing turrets and the strafing through mobs :D
  • #121
    Switched to full cold last night with Kridershot and now I can't play my Live DH anymore... Really wish they'd implement the attack speed fix on sentries on Live.
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