Do to the popularity of our other debate 1h vs 2h with Marauder set. I would like to move on to the Elemental Damage: Fire vs Physical - Pros vs Cons.All I ask is your input on the testing you have completed thus far and your thoughts.
My current answer is lightning. Fire hits hard, I'll give it that. I was able to switch over to a fire/6 piece build keeping the cindercoat and the damage is great, kills are fast, so fast that I would rarely get more than 2 sentries up for a pack. However, while it worked up to T5, I was still running into survivability issues in T6.
I made the switch to lightning after getting a perfect lightning SoJ and I can clear T6 rifts with little issue. It's not as fast, not only did I sacrifice some sheet dps, but it's just not as hard hitting as fire, BUT everything stays stunned. It's just a good feeling spec.
Haven't been lucky enough to get a physical SoJ and my physical bracers are 15% (eww) but I'll try it eventually. What I'm seeing on various posts is that it's capable of hitting even harder than fire but I'll be honest it's going to be hard to give up that "permastun" effect.
My thought is that lightning (for me personally) is going to be my go to for solo and I'll probably end up using physical for group play.
My current answer is lightning. Fire hits hard, I'll give it that. I was able to switch over to a fire/6 piece build keeping the cindercoat and the damage is great, kills are fast, so fast that I would rarely get more than 2 sentries up for a pack. However, while it worked up to T5, I was still running into survivability issues in T6.
I made the switch to lightning after getting a perfect lightning SoJ and I can clear T6 rifts with little issue. It's not as fast, not only did I sacrifice some sheet dps, but it's just not as hard hitting as fire, BUT everything stays stunned. It's just a good feeling spec.
Haven't been lucky enough to get a physical SoJ and my physical bracers are 15% (eww) but I'll try it eventually. What I'm seeing on various posts is that it's capable of hitting even harder than fire but I'll be honest it's going to be hard to give up that "permastun" effect.
My thought is that lightning (for me personally) is going to be my go to for solo and I'll probably end up using physical for group play.
I have yet to try lightning - do you mind linking me your lightning build that you tested with. I have a lightning soj + lightning amulet - I would just have to get some lightning bracers. I agree I'm very content with my physical build and I don't think I will be switching anytime soon - I play with groups 90% of the time i'm on.
I have yet to try lightning - do you mind linking me your lightning build that you tested with. I have a lightning soj + lightning amulet - I would just have to get some lightning bracers. I agree I'm very content with my physical build and I don't think I will be switching anytime soon - I play with groups 90% of the time i'm on.
Some of that is obviously personal preference. This is with a Kridershot. I've tried it without a Krider and substituted EA in for Rain. I'm aware of the turret "bug" that causes them not to fire as effectively / utilize your IAS when using EA. The point of this build, for me, is to keep them stunned and away from me, not blow them up immediately.
If you're more twitch than I am, you could swap out smoke screen for vault. I like smoke screen because I'm old and slow. If you don't like rain but have a Krider and like everything else, you can put whatever else you want in that slot as long as it's not MS or Impale, as those will then cycle into the turret fire, causing them to shoot less stunning shots. If you don't have a Krider or don't want to use it but want the turrent to shoot the stunning EA, put the EA where Rain is and pick the generator of your choice.
The passives are, again, somewhat personal choice. TA is pretty mandatory IMO and there's no good reason not to choose Archery but the other two are survivability and help keep me alive when I derp into some ground effect. I'll often switch out Awareness for a DPS passive, especially if I'm not on T6.
This is certainly not the most damaging build, even with all gear being equal I don't think you could make this hit as hard as fire OR physical, but there's no way anything else is going to keep stuff as stunned as this does.
Its all gear dependant, i gain 100% crit damage and 800 vit in fire gear.
I'm not happy with this Chad. You clearly stated that "Physical" was best and you voted "Fire". I don't have a fire SOJ so I have to wait to test fire.
I have yet to try lightning - do you mind linking me your lightning build that you tested with. I have a lightning soj + lightning amulet - I would just have to get some lightning bracers. I agree I'm very content with my physical build and I don't think I will be switching anytime soon - I play with groups 90% of the time i'm on.
Some of that is obviously personal preference. This is with a Kridershot. I've tried it without a Krider and substituted EA in for Rain. I'm aware of the turret "bug" that causes them not to fire as effectively / utilize your IAS when using EA. The point of this build, for me, is to keep them stunned and away from me, not blow them up immediately.
If you're more twitch than I am, you could swap out smoke screen for vault. I like smoke screen because I'm old and slow. If you don't like rain but have a Krider and like everything else, you can put whatever else you want in that slot as long as it's not MS or Impale, as those will then cycle into the turret fire, causing them to shoot less stunning shots. If you don't have a Krider or don't want to use it but want the turrent to shoot the stunning EA, put the EA where Rain is and pick the generator of your choice.
The passives are, again, somewhat personal choice. TA is pretty mandatory IMO and there's no good reason not to choose Archery but the other two are survivability and help keep me alive when I derp into some ground effect. I'll often switch out Awareness for a DPS passive, especially if I'm not on T6.
This is certainly not the most damaging build, even with all gear being equal I don't think you could make this hit as hard as fire OR physical, but there's no way anything else is going to keep stuff as stunned as this does.
I'm not convinced that the Marauder set actually exists haha!
The only set piece I have ever seen drop is Blackthornes despite five level 70 characters and constant DH play. . .so the notion that some people have a 6-set bonus (5 pieces assuming you use the ring of grandeur) is insane to me lol.
I'm not convinced that the Marauder set actually exists haha!
The only set piece I have ever seen drop is Blackthornes despite five level 70 characters and constant DH play. . .so the notion that some people have a 6-set bonus (5 pieces assuming you use the ring of grandeur) is insane to me lol.
haha it took me some time I got the shadow set almost twice over before I got 6 piece Marauder. I got my boots, leggings from Kadala and my gloves from a friend although Kadala gave me a better pair later on.
Like i said, in equal gear the phy build will pull ahead due to pets damage.
Why do ppl use TA? Id rather use hot pursuit since sentrys and pets proc it. But there are much better choices unless speed farming bounties.
I will agree, the lightning spec even with all the lightning gear you can muster, is definitely not going to out damage physical or even fire. I consider it a utility build and has allowed me to do T6.
As far as why I personally use TA, I want the speed boost when I need it when I use my "get out of dodge" cooldown. Speed from hot pursuit is nice but if it's not on when I need it to be on there's not much I can do about it other than die.
Like i said, in equal gear the phy build will pull ahead due to pets damage.
Why do ppl use TA? Id rather use hot pursuit since sentrys and pets proc it. But there are much better choices unless speed farming bounties.
I will agree, the lightning spec even with all the lightning gear you can muster, is definitely not going to out damage physical or even fire. I consider it a utility build and has allowed me to do T6.
As far as why I personally use TA, I want the speed boost when I need it when I use my "get out of dodge" cooldown. Speed from hot pursuit is nice but if it's not on when I need it to be on there's not much I can do about it other than die.
Nice input. What about your thoughts on fire vs physical. I myself prefer physical.
Managed to get a usable physical SoJ. Does more damage than lightning, probably overall more than fire. Crits aren't as large as fire but overall damage appears to be higher due to the rockets. I gotta say I like the feeling of fire better, assuming Cindercoat as the one non-set piece. Maybe that would change if I had a tasker and theo for my physical build but I don't and Kadala doesn't seem to have them in stock. Still prefer the lightning I've been running over both. Spotting an elite pack and killing it almost exactly where you saw it on T6 is a good feeling. I experimented going physical while running with my friend and HIS survivability (barbarian) was noticeably lower. There's a toughness increase that you're not going to see on your character sheet when things simply can't attack you.
Managed to get a usable physical SoJ. Does more damage than lightning, probably overall more than fire. Crits aren't as large as fire but overall damage appears to be higher due to the rockets. I gotta say I like the feeling of fire better, assuming Cindercoat as the one non-set piece. Maybe that would change if I had a tasker and theo for my physical build but I don't and Kadala doesn't seem to have them in stock. Still prefer the lightning I've been running over both. Spotting an elite pack and killing it almost exactly where you saw it on T6 is a good feeling. I experimented going physical while running with my friend and HIS survivability (barbarian) was noticeably lower. There's a toughness increase that you're not going to see on your character sheet when things simply can't attack you.
Nice feedback bro! I like the feeling of physical more than anything. I run lightning build when I have a low toughness t6 group to help them - although mobs take longer to clear it definitely lowers deaths by a large margin. I just got my taskers and theos last night but I don't have maraduers chest piece yet so I have to wait to test out but I can only imagine its going to boost my dps even more when I run physical. At this point I don't see myself returning to fire unless I need a change of things (due to boredom)
For lightning sentries, you guys should consider going impale - ricochet instead of multishot - fire at will. Impale is such good single target dps. The cluster arrow handles aoe well enough anyway.
I played quite a lot with physical build with T&T and it was better when compared to Garwulf, or nat's build.
however when I play fire I prefer to use magefist or cindercoat.
the problem with using cindercoat is you'll lose toughness, magefist seems like a better option.
also there is an option with using 2x natalya's bonus with handxbow + a nats piece but then you'll lose elemental damage for fire and garwulf or T&T for physical.
Try not focusing on elemental dmg, but rather skill dmg, cc,chd,ias, and use ballistics passive with MS(arsenal), Sentry (spitfire) CA(shooting stars) with a generator attack to spam to trigger extra rockets. Wicked DPS, and allows u to gather extra EHP from bracers through ALLres which lets u focus on getting skill dmg from other pieces. Works like a charm.
As long as physical spenders stay comparatively weak, clearly fire. Shooting stars is simply bad if its not ST. The rockets don't do AoE and can hit barrels instead of mobs, may hit completely irrelevant ones normally dying to AoE and the AoE component is worse than fire versions. Pet dmg is a thing, yes, but also only ST for the msot part and not even half as good as wd pets, tasker won't let them go nuts.
Spitfire sentry and arsenal are fire and so the rocket thing is much more capable on the fire side as in boh cases the rockets are more useful as in shooting stars. LfB and CB are both incredibly strong spenders and especially CB can make good use of grenadier for increased AoE range, easier ahndling and more output.
Cindercoat in addition offers the natural fire dmg for your sentries and you, while additionally gives you another big boost thorugh massive rcr on sentires, CA, MS and possibly vault with trail of cinders. As it is also fully possible and viable to go with grenadier + ballistics you can create rampage builds which are much more terrifying on AoE and similar on ST compared tp physical.
Only ST physical can truly win out and ST is too much a niche to be generally better, for now that is.
What is ST?
Also do you need to hit a specific attack per second for fire to be more viable than physical.
I use physical w/ T&T with contagion mark of death and I run through t6 like nothing. The reason being is while I have all this automatic damage I can run around with my harrington and grab things for it to proc.
I use to run physical but after a lot of testing with both physical and fire (with fire i tested taskers/hexing/cindercoat), I find that fire - cindercoat to be the best set up. The kill times between taskers/hexing/cindercoat are all relatively similar with the sentries. The advantage of the cindercoat is that it allows you to fire more yourself from the fire reduction.
And no, as long as you hit 1.46 aps you are fine. Taskers are not required (and less optimal than cindercoat) for fire by any means. Unless you reach unrealistic breakpoints, taskers will only grant you more regular sentry shots, they dont increase the amount of multishot or cluster arrow shots.
Discussion:
Fire vs Physical
I made the switch to lightning after getting a perfect lightning SoJ and I can clear T6 rifts with little issue. It's not as fast, not only did I sacrifice some sheet dps, but it's just not as hard hitting as fire, BUT everything stays stunned. It's just a good feeling spec.
Haven't been lucky enough to get a physical SoJ and my physical bracers are 15% (eww) but I'll try it eventually. What I'm seeing on various posts is that it's capable of hitting even harder than fire but I'll be honest it's going to be hard to give up that "permastun" effect.
My thought is that lightning (for me personally) is going to be my go to for solo and I'll probably end up using physical for group play.
Some of that is obviously personal preference. This is with a Kridershot. I've tried it without a Krider and substituted EA in for Rain. I'm aware of the turret "bug" that causes them not to fire as effectively / utilize your IAS when using EA. The point of this build, for me, is to keep them stunned and away from me, not blow them up immediately.
If you're more twitch than I am, you could swap out smoke screen for vault. I like smoke screen because I'm old and slow. If you don't like rain but have a Krider and like everything else, you can put whatever else you want in that slot as long as it's not MS or Impale, as those will then cycle into the turret fire, causing them to shoot less stunning shots. If you don't have a Krider or don't want to use it but want the turrent to shoot the stunning EA, put the EA where Rain is and pick the generator of your choice.
The passives are, again, somewhat personal choice. TA is pretty mandatory IMO and there's no good reason not to choose Archery but the other two are survivability and help keep me alive when I derp into some ground effect. I'll often switch out Awareness for a DPS passive, especially if I'm not on T6.
This is certainly not the most damaging build, even with all gear being equal I don't think you could make this hit as hard as fire OR physical, but there's no way anything else is going to keep stuff as stunned as this does.
Why do ppl use TA? Id rather use hot pursuit since sentrys and pets proc it. But there are much better choices unless speed farming bounties.
The only set piece I have ever seen drop is Blackthornes despite five level 70 characters and constant DH play. . .so the notion that some people have a 6-set bonus (5 pieces assuming you use the ring of grandeur) is insane to me lol.
As far as why I personally use TA, I want the speed boost when I need it when I use my "get out of dodge" cooldown. Speed from hot pursuit is nice but if it's not on when I need it to be on there's not much I can do about it other than die.
Note: edited some typos.
however when I play fire I prefer to use magefist or cindercoat.
the problem with using cindercoat is you'll lose toughness, magefist seems like a better option.
also there is an option with using 2x natalya's bonus with handxbow + a nats piece but then you'll lose elemental damage for fire and garwulf or T&T for physical.
.
Also do you need to hit a specific attack per second for fire to be more viable than physical.
I use physical w/ T&T with contagion mark of death and I run through t6 like nothing. The reason being is while I have all this automatic damage I can run around with my harrington and grab things for it to proc.
Take a look:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/blackmamba-1902/hero/6125276
And no, as long as you hit 1.46 aps you are fine. Taskers are not required (and less optimal than cindercoat) for fire by any means. Unless you reach unrealistic breakpoints, taskers will only grant you more regular sentry shots, they dont increase the amount of multishot or cluster arrow shots.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12945884471?page=1